A few mates and myself are going to be building a small DC here in Australia.

I was wondering if any of you guys have some good tips for building/maintaining the DC.

Oh, the main thing we are also looking for is information on the providers of t3 internet, or whatever else is available in the NSW, Sydney area of Australia.


Thanks all :)

Don't bother, too expensive and lines here are too expensive. 10mbit from telstra is 20k what they told me.

You have to think about backup links, generators, cooling, and raised floors incase of floods.

It will cost atleast $100,000 to setup, plus lines plus staff. The only really place you will get good bandwidth would be in the cbd, and expect to pay abit for rent.

And don't forget security.

It has been done - I know someone who set one up over here. It's only small, right in the city center. Basically, you need the money and a decent client base to keep you going for a bit without running too much in debt.

Everyone in Australia has the same bandwidth pricing problem, so you wouldn't be any different from other locals.

Damn that sucks! I know.. we can all go 1/4's and pay 150k p/month for a satalite connection right into the backbone!


Interested? :P

The pings would be shocking :D

Hrmm.. would probably be cheaper to purchase about 10+ cable connections, uncapped* upstream/downstream.


Heh.. but bandwidth is so expensive.

Yup

definately too expensive, most of the costs go into maintaining the trans atlantic link under the sea it seems :(

So maybe a connection through some sort of satalite would be cheaper?

Sat = latency and latency = bad.

If you really have enough $ to build a DC move to the USA or Europe where it doesn't cost that much to do.

Easier said than done!


I have family here.. wouldn't be right to move away..

Well if you want my honest opinion building a DC would be a waste in todays market. Espically in Aussie Land.... bandwidth is WAY too expensive for you to compete with anything but the local level in Australia, and even then most people there outsource the servers to the US... So your talking a very niche market when putting the overall world into view.

I'd look into investing your money into something safer at the moment.... I'm not saying you can't make it work but it is very risky to try something like that with little previous experience and limited funds.

Listen to the comments people give you here as they are so correct!

We have also looked into building a DC in Sydney going by the examples of a small DC in Alexandria that we know of.

Number one thing to consider here is the cost of bandwidth ( What makes you think that your cost of bandwidth will be much cheaper that any of the other big datacentres around )

Number two the building - Dont think you can built your DC in a garage you need a proper secure facilty that not only has space to fit all the racks etc but also is close to a power grid so you can drain as much power you need into the servers, light, air condition and the generators.

Your looking at start up costs over the 200k Mark! And a cost of around 50K to hold the DC together.

Now if you have the money good, but if not thats a problem.

Consider this Your facilty also needs to be fitted out with racks etc. You need a professional sales team to go out there and get customers.

We all know how expensive Sydney is for Real Estate etc if you buy something small since your only starting even in Alexandria (Inner City -Were we have a building) Its going to cost you 1.4 Million to buy.

And or around $2000 a week. Now if this facility can only hold lets say 100 servers considering that you have to offer good prices to be competative you will not even be able to make your rent and bandwidth with your facilty decked out with servers.

Im sorry if this Post is confusing and does not make sense... I am looking directly at my notes and research and this plan is just on the back burner for us at the moment.

Look into Optus and OR RSL COM for connections and backup. Be prepared to pay around 8cents wholesale per meg anyway.

There are still other small costs here and there but i wish you the best of luck.

My advice * if you dont have the customer base * Move to the United States with your family and do something there *

Kind regards

Hi faculty,

If you go down this track of building your own DC, you'd better have a heap of $$$$ to sustain your negative cashflow while your client base catches up to your costs.

Then hosts like us who have our servers in US based datacenters, will beat you hands down for price and speed. :D

Most of the Dc's are under huge debt before they turn profitable..

Originally posted by ForumsAddict
Most of the Dc's are under huge debt before they turn profitable..
It's a tough business model for a host. If you run your own DC, then your costs are going to be much higher. [depending on the number of servers and possible future economies of scale etc] It also depends on the volume of business you're doing when you make the switch to your own DC. It would be like 5 steps back to go 25 steps forward over the coming years....

Deb from futurequest might jump into this thread and give some insight perhaps?? They've just made the jump from coloing or leasing their servers to housing them in their own facility. One look at their server room and you'll see it's pretty much empty. [maybe 20 servers] So there's plenty of room for expansion. It's in the future expansion that the economies of scale and ROI will start to kick in for them.

BTW Deb, I'm still watching the server room. :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Then hosts like us who have our servers in US based datacenters, will beat you hands down for price and speed. :D

Not really...not on speed at all though. But targetting the local market will mean going after some big business as big business does host down here. It's a completely different ballgame.

Things are on the improve now. We can get 4RU of space for $220/mth plus inbound GB's for $100/mth. It works out to around AU$1250 (US$690) startup costs including server acquisition and AU$82.50 US$46) per month for a dedicated box. Most medium to large Australian operations wouldn't think twice about these charges compared to the $1k/month they're probably paying now.

All I need now is for our bank manager to share my vision! As it is, email scares him...

Robert, you're onto something different too aren't you? With no inbound charges?

Cheers

Gary

AUssie Bob? Speed?

No way...

Local serivce Local Data Centres Local bandwidth of course its going to be faster for people hosted in Australia.

And What gary says is true, Prices are going down and the local market do not think twice about paying the extra buck for local hosting.

Kind regards
Phillip

heh :buck: I should have quatified that to clients outside of Australia - you know, the other 95% of the internet. :D

If you're an Australian business hosting locally, i'm sure most of the visitors would be located in Australia too?

Yes Andy. So then the business concerned needs to decide whether their requirements are such that they need to spend the $$$'s on their net presence to produce fast speeds for local visitors or not. And in reality, 95% probably don't. That's 95% of actual numbers of sites. It's the other 5%...the bigger players that pay someone like Web Central a grand a month to provide them with a dedicated and secure environment, who are going to have to realise soon that there are more cost effective options around. Right now...it's more of a habit I think..."need server - must ring Web Central"...or worse, "let's get onto Telstra"!!! ;)

The local market will crack in about 2 years I believe, and it's all there for the taking. We're going to make sure we have a facility in place by then.

Cheers

Gary

That is what I was thinking.. it is must faster for people who live in australia to host on an aussie server - telstra for example. High assed pricing.. but they are local, reliable (yeah right) and everyone knows of them.


With telstra leading the way, it leaves room for us to kill the market with SLIGHTLY lower pricing.

Could also contact telstra and see how much they would charge me for say.. 15 unmetered cable connections - that should be enough to host a few servers for local business's :)

If you're going after the top end of town, then maybe there's a good market there. We go after the webmaster with the dozen or so sites etc. So we're none too worried about the top end of the market. Hence, servers based in NAC will do the job just nicely. I get 60KB/s from NAC anyways. How much faster can I download from an Aussie server?? Got a file I can download from a server of yours in Australia, Gary, anyone??

Big difference with Aussie servers. I could be downloading at say 250kbps from america, then 750kbps + in australia

All depends on your connection and that of the hosts :)

Originally posted by Editor
Right now...it's more of a habit I think..."need server - must ring Web Central"...or worse, "let's get onto Telstra"!!! ;)

The local market will crack in about 2 years I believe, and it's all there for the taking. We're going to make sure we have a facility in place by then.


Those guys are so well known, people don't even seem to think twice before ordering.
:rolleyes:

I think you're right, i'm hoping that more fiber will be laid around here too, so Telstra are forced to price more reasonably. Surely with their large profits they don't need to charge so horribly.

I'm also keeping an eye on Nextgen Networks, they seem to keep pushing their completion date further away though - doesn't everyone? ;)

I get 60KB/s from NAC anyways. How much faster can I download from an Aussie server?? Got a file I can download from a server of yours in Australia, Gary, anyone??

I get up to 600ks/sec to US servers, but average at around 350kb/sec. Locally, i've got up to about 1mbyte/sec and average at 700. Browsing is generally quicker over here, sites come up like i'm accessing from a computer a few meters away. :)

Aussie Bob!

Bandwidth is Money! :)

Faculty qala.com.au im not sure what there called now etc. even if thats is there site anymore i dont have the time to check bu they offered some good SDSL prcing...

Kind regards.
Phillip

Originally posted by faculty

Could also contact telstra and see how much they would charge me for say.. 15 unmetered cable connections - that should be enough to host a few servers for local business's :)




Reckon they would give a discount for that many connections?


Oh yeah.. just outa thought.. where does telstra get their connections?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Got a file I can download from a server of yours in Australia, Gary, anyone??

Drop me a line and I'll put something up there mate. But for example, look at our main site or our forum, and the difference from here is awesome obviously.

Faculty, I love your work! That comment about Telstra's reliability...great stuff! ;)

Cheers

Gary

Originally posted by Choppy
Aussie Bob!

Bandwidth is Money! :)

Faculty qala.com.au im not sure what there called now etc. even if thats is there site anymore i dont have the time to check bu they offered some good SDSL prcing...

Kind regards.
Phillip
Come on Philip, whip up a download link so a few hundred of us can rip 50 to 100GB down from a server of yours in Oz. :D ;)

Originally posted by faculty
Big difference with Aussie servers. I could be downloading at say 250kbps from america, then 750kbps + in australia

All depends on your connection and that of the hosts :)
Yeah, so is it that noticeable dropping down code from a NAC server [from Australia] and dropping down code from a server in Australia? Ok, it might be a touch quicker, but is it really that critical the website comes up that .56 seconds faster??

Yeah - I agree.. but some people may not. I mean.. some people must have the fastest.. even if it is un-noticable!

There's more to it than how quickly a page will load Bob. For example how many more potential points of failure are you adding by going overseas, to every single request being sent? Don't get me wrong...we saw the upside of US based hosting years ago, after starting with a few local providers in '98...but they are two completely different ballgames that really don't compare.

What if the situation was reversed pricewise? Do you think the US majors would host the majority of their content down here (~250ms away) instead of their local ~50ms providers, to save some $$$'s? Not a chance. A percentage would...probably the same percentage of our business who would never consider anything other than US based services.

Cheers

Gary

Anyone know how much the Telstra ATM relay costs? 155 mbps connections..


How much does it cost and how much do they charge p/gig.

You can get access to this from Chatswood and some other locations so I am thinking of maybe building there.. or maybe Paddington

That wouldn't be cheap. If I recall correctly, 45mbit links are around AU$70k/month..

No idea. www.telstrawholesale.com would probably be the place to start though.

Cheers

Gary

Thanks Gary


I sent them a message.. filled out there long form, etc.

Hopefully they can come back to me with a price.
Hopefully they don't expect me to pay millions :P

Hi All,

A 100mbit fibre connection on a volume based plan is the only way to go. I can't give your exact pricing (because of a NDA) but lets just say you were to do 500GB per month on this 100mbit fibre connection it would cost you around $0.06 per mb on a 1:5 download ratio, plus a few hundred to get a tail out to your north sydney facility. In brief its going to cost quite a bit. (maybe 45 - 70 k)

With our connection within Optus we can get over 900kbits ber sec from other networks. Its only slowed down by the server and the other ends network connection.

You may try downloading this file hosted on one of our servers within optus

http://203.84.227.4/youthgroup.mov

If you are interested in connectivity options please feel to give me a call we can get lower than wholesale prices from most cariers. +61 422 11 88 08


Regards,

Samuel Yeats

Thanks mate - We can talk more about hiring a cage or whatever later :)

Originally posted by faculty
Thanks mate - We can talk more about hiring a cage or whatever later :)
If you're hiring cages, we have an old chook cage out the back that we're no longer using. I could let that go pretty cheaply. :D :buck:

Originally posted by yeatsie
http://203.84.227.4/youthgroup.mov
I get 50KB/second from there. I get 60+ from NAC. Go figure. :D

-

450 here..

Over 500kbps for me.. Maybe some people don't live in Australia and/or have a **** connection ;)

Topping out your 512k ADSL connection(??) on both doesn't rate them as equal Bob... :)

Gary

Originally posted by Editor
Topping out your 512k ADSL connection(??) on both doesn't rate them as equal Bob... :)
Hold it - yeah the techs at Telstra throttle my ADSL to 512k and they won't accept a small bribe to "unthrottle" her a touch. :D

But for me, I get better download speeds from NAC than I do from that above link. But speed isn't everything....:)

I dont have ADSL.. cable for me :)

Originally posted by Myacen
The pings would be shocking :D

lol :laugh:

I didn't know Samuel was registered here :D,

For some reason when I ping Samuel's ip/try to download from netspace in wa I get 25k and 300ms pings :bawling:

I get around 55. Usual for Netspace here in Brisbane.

Gary

Originally posted by Editor
I get around 55. Usual for Netspace here in Brisbane.

Gary

Dodgy WA links :bawling:

is this me or that other user called samuel your talking about?

(gary I am preparing a reply to your message ;) )


Best Regards,
Samuel

Maxed out at 788K a second here for that first mov download. Im using Floptus cable ( Optus )

ATM is really expensive at the moment - i visited Sony Australia ( Sydney office ) and there running one of them ATM Frame Relay 155mbits connections but i think its costing over the 120k a month price mark. Im not sure how much data there pushing through though.

King regards

Phillip
P.S BoB who do i send the invoice too? headsurfer?