I just went through the process of switching hosters for my 3 domains. I was hosting through a friend but he was ripping me off and charging me almost 3x more than other places for hosting, plus $50 for every single question I ever asked him, big or small. Today he shut down my domains (without telling me) so I went through the process of transfering to hostmonster. I guess I need the EPP codes from him, so I sent him a message requesting those. He sends me back a message saying that he's not going to give them to me and he plans on selling them....

I paid for these domains, they are in my name. Can he legally sell them or does he have to release them to me? Please help, I own an online store and everyday without these sites is lost income!

It would be nice to know who the provider is.
/subscribe :popcorn:

If they are in your name, he cannot take them from you. Contact him and explain to him that they're in your name and if he does try and sell them, you'll contact your lawyers.

Make sure you take a screenshot of the whois, however you can always check the old whois so if he does change it he can't hide that you're the previous owner.

Do you know who the registrar is? Is he a reseller?

it's not a necessity and i'd rather not give too much out. I'm just looking for a simple yes or no as to the legality.

Simple yes or no?

No.

If that domain is in your name and you have your email ID as admin contact in WHOIS, see who the registrar is, contact them and ask for help.

if he takes domains in your name, that is theft, plain and simple. you can take him to court over it, there are plenty of whois records and the registrar can verify it. if you do a whois (www.iwhois.com) tell us what registrar it is at, perhaps i can help you get control of the domains which are legally yours.

In practice you have very little protection with GTLD domains (i.e. com/net/org etc). If your provider controls the account through which your domains were registered he can go into the account and edit the registrant field and take control of the domains from you. There may well still be some registrars out there that won't allow resellers to edit the registrant field, but from what I have seen the vast majority of registrars now allow all fields to be edited by the reseller, including the registrant field.

As someone else has said make sure you take a screen shot of the Whois. This could be vitual evidence. Make sure you do this straight away.

However, even with a screen shot you still have quite a battle getting those domains back if your reseller changes the registrant field. It's likely to be expensive and messy. Legally you may be in the right, legally this may be theft... but that doesn't mean that it's going to be easy to get those domains back if your reseller steals them and sells them on.

Any agreements?

In practice you have very little protection with GTLD domains (i.e. com/net/org etc). If your provider controls the account through which your domains were registered he can go into the account and edit the registrant field and take control of the domains from you. There may well still be some registrars out there that won't allow resellers to edit the registrant field, but from what I have seen the vast majority of registrars now allow all fields to be edited by the reseller, including the registrant field.

As someone else has said make sure you take a screen shot of the Whois. This could be vitual evidence. Make sure you do this straight away.

However, even with a screen shot you still have quite a battle getting those domains back if your reseller changes the registrant field. It's likely to be expensive and messy. Legally you may be in the right, legally this may be theft... but that doesn't mean that it's going to be easy to get those domains back if your reseller steals them and sells them on.

so you are saying that the systems used by registrars/resellers have no audit trail? Unlike virtually every other large-scale important system on the planet?

so you are saying that the systems used by registrars/resellers have no audit trail?

Johnny, registrars and resellers each have their own systems. Whether they do have an audit trail or not depends on how well (or badly) they keep records of such.

Unfortunately, Lubeca is correct that we end users have essentially very little protection if this sort of thing crops up. I once blogged the importance of keeping records of your own, which might help if this situation arises.

Also unfortunately, not everyone is aware how, much more its importance...until it's practically too late.

you'll contact your lawyers.

VERY good advise. That's the first thing you should do in a situation like this. Just prepare all the paperwork (contracts, invoices, payments, emails with full headers, whois printouts with or without your name, etc.) you have and call your lawyer(s) for an appointment.

Johnny, registrars and resellers each have their own systems. Whether they do have an audit trail or not depends on how well (or badly) they keep records of such.

Unfortunately, Lubeca is correct that we end users have essentially very little protection if this sort of thing crops up. I once blogged the importance of keeping records of your own, which might help if this situation arises.

Also unfortunately, not everyone is aware how, much more its importance...until it's practically too late.

incredible. So registrars don't have to pass the details of registration etc back to the ICANN / other 'official' body? So in the case of a dispute, it's 2 registrars slugging it out, there's no DEFINITIVE record of who is supposed to own a domain at this time?

freaking incredible. So you wouldn't agree with THIS, then? :-

"So how does domain registration work? Theoretically, a domain is nothing more than an entry in a database containing the domain name, IP addresses for the domain and mail servers, and other details too geeky to go into. The database is called the domain registry, and it's administered by Network Solutions. Any registrar recognized by Network Solutions can submit a record to the registry, and for a fee, Network Solutions will add it. The database then gets copied or propagated to domain servers across the world. It's that propagation that causes the delay in domains going live once you've registered them.

With the hundreds of registrars available now, price competition is fierce, with a median price of about $15 a year.

So whom does Network Solutions recognize as registrars? To break the government-granted monopoly Network Solutions once had on the registering .com domains (at $100 a pop) at the dawn of the Internet, a regulatory body called ICANN was created to license new registrars. As a result, Network Solutions is obliged to accept registrations from pretty much anyone who can format the entries correctly. This arrangement has led to a second tier of registrars who pay a fee to ICANN and conform to various standards of operation. In exchange, they get the right to work directly with Network Solutions and display the ICANN logo, a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval that really doesn't mean much except to jittery domain buyers.

network solutions databases, btw, are fully audited, and conform to military standard backup specs.
"

So registrars don't have to pass the details of registration etc back to the ICANN / other 'official' body?

Nowadays they do per their accreditation agreement under data escrow. What they don't have to do is "share" that data with 3rd parties unless, say, served with a court order. (although I can't say the same if the government asks for it...)

And that bit you posted about Network Solutions is old. They've been bought years ago by VeriSign and subsequently sold off, leaving VeriSign to manage the com/net Registry and Network Solutions to be a registrar like everyone else.

Like many have already said check the whois info. Go to it right now and put your domain in and check it. Does it have your info or his? Also if these are really your domains you should have some sort of record of them email, bank statement, credit card statement? If you infact do then problem solved.

Nowadays they do per their accreditation agreement under data escrow. What they don't have to do is "share" that data with 3rd parties unless, say, served with a court order. (although I can't say the same if the government asks for it...)

And that bit you posted about Network Solutions is old. They've been bought years ago by VeriSign and subsequently sold off, leaving VeriSign to manage the com/net Registry and Network Solutions to be a registrar like everyone else.

thanks for clearing that up - it seems incredible that there's no 'final authority' on who owns a domain. Imagine ifd for example, real estate was handled this way. BTW, what's 'data escrow' :-) :-) :-)

it seems incredible that there's no 'final authority' on who owns a domain.

Let's pretend the following scenario:

1. You run a registrar.

2. I pay a webmaster to "build me a website" real quick.

3. The webmaster registers the domain name with your registrar, agrees to your contract's terms, lists himself as the registrant, and pays for it with his credit card.

4. Six months later, the webmaster and I have a falling out, and I refuse to pay his remaining fees.

5. I contact you, explain my situation, and ask how to get "my" domain name.

In that given scenario, which I've handled every other day in my previous registrar life, will you declare me the "owner" of the domain name and hand it to me on a silver platter, even though you have a contractual obligation to the webmaster?

You probably won't like this, but your provider's contract defines your relationship and your "rights" towards the domain name. At least one U.S. court decision (Umbro) declared them as "creatures of contract", and they won't exist if you don't agree to your provider's contract.

Then again, I've been reading that nowadays it isn't necessarily a question of who owns what, but what rights are assigned to all parties concerned in a commercial transaction.

And by data escrow, the registrar will send a copy of all their current registration data to the agent (Iron Mountain) designated by ICANN to keep a copy. You can search or it at icann.org.

All very interesting, but not exactly relevant. What I'm trying to do is establish if there is a 'definitive' record of who owns the domain, regardless of any contractual issues between domain litigants. In the same way that there is a definitive record of who owns a tract of land.

What I'm trying to do is establish if there is a 'definitive' record of who owns the domain, regardless of any contractual issues between domain litigants. In the same way that there is a definitive record of who owns a tract of land.

Well, if you insist, it's a combo of whoever is listed as the registrant of the domain name, who's directly paying for it, and who agreed to the registrar's contract. There's no so-called "certificate of title" or anything of that sort if that's what you're looking for.

I understand if you're looking for some kind of simple answer. But the truth is there's isn't always any, depending on the circumstances like the one I previously described.

Oh, and forgot to add that we don't "own" domain names anyway. We're only licensed to use them.

I think that's stupid for what ever it says in the whois you say owns them. So your saying that if I gained access to your domains and went to the whois info and put my name and info in their they would be mine. Even if you have an email or receipt saying that you bought them in the beginning?