It's coming to an end. Employees are being let go and people are being warned to get their data off the servers.

Jan's Resignation (http://www.geocities.com/jancwstaff/)

Important Points:

I spoke with Shawn by telephone the evening of August 27. I expressed my concerned to Shawn about CW1 still not being up (it had been the better part of a day by then). I indicated that many customers were affected by it's downtime and that I had some mail I wanted to access. After discussing CW1 some more, he suggested that I be sure I have backups of anything I needed from CW1. I would recommend everyone do the same.

and

Cyberwings will continue in some capacity, he did say that it may be a while before it happens and therefore he has no need for employees or the payroll they generate at this time.

It's over.

hmm ..interesting shows the inside story..How did you find this by the way? ;)

Its goood that its over but customers should atleast get their refunds :bawling:

:rolleyes: Oh the drama!

Another Cyberwings staff member posted it.

Customers are SOL.

Yes, it is dramatic Oki. Shawn still owes over $10,000 and still has "customers" on the server. He hasn't communicated and the server was down for 35 hours.

Originally posted by OKIHost
:rolleyes: Oh the drama!
*gets popcorn* :stickout

Shawn still owes over $10,000

Excuse i am out here...haven't u sued him or its a long story...?

To my knowledge no one has sued him.

Many complaints filed with consumer groups and attorney generals.

It's just amazing that the guy is going to finally call it quits. Amazing.

Apparently it all hit the fan when this was posted: http://www.cyberwingsowesmemoney.com/cwmemo.html

Its on F'dcompanies internalmemos site as well, but you have to pay to get in.

Originally posted by pgrote
Shawn still owes over $10,000

what you paid? or why he owe you that?

Rack,

It's the combination of people he has taken money from and not provided services.

He used to run sales, take money and then take months to set up the accounts if ever:

Yepo CW Refunds Database (http://www.yepo.com)

Totally expected of the end of the CW story! My $20 tuition on this lesson. sigh!

He jsut might be back with a new name and system may be some time from now...not sure but anything can happen...

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

*gets popcorn* :stickout

Can you share some? I have no money! :D

I just don't understand how anyone can STILL have a site, or be loyal to cyberwings.com.

After a month and a half of NO service, lies, poor service, no refunds - people chose to stay with the company?

I felt REALLY bad for the customers that got screwed when they just flipped the switch at LS and RS - I thought most of them, if not all of them, had finally left. Guess not. :(

Before everyone gets on a "you get what you pay for" kick, please dont. It's not the cost of the service - it's how you are treated. I have a low cost service, but I like to think I give high levels of service to my customers, above and beyond the couple dollars a month that I charge. Several companies, HostPC, DixieSys and others, offer quality services for inconsequential amounts of money monthly. Does that mean we won't be around tomorrow ? I don't think so. I plan on being in this for the long haul!

Well shawn admits it himself that it was the expenses that brought him down....

Yes i totally agree that---- its how you are treated---

No one wants to be treated badly no matter what we PAY FOR? Its not the ppl who were convincing shawn to sell too low but shawn's own failure ideas...

Originally posted by hostpc.com
Before everyone gets on a "you get what you pay for" kick, please dont. It's not the cost of the service - it's how you are treated. I have a low cost service, but I like to think I give high levels of service to my customers, above and beyond the couple dollars a month that I charge. Several companies, HostPC, DixieSys and others, offer quality services for inconsequential amounts of money monthly. Does that mean we won't be around tomorrow ? I don't think so. I plan on being in this for the long haul! [/B]

I respectfully disagree. You do "get what you pay for", and this is a perfect example. If a hosting company offers such cheap plans that it leaves no room for real profit, both overselling resources and underselling support time - it's only a matter of time before customers use more resources then the host can pay for, and require more support than the host can provide. Regardless of how the host "Wants" to treat people, they will no longer have the capacity to do so.

What amazes me is that people continue to select the cheapest providers even after suffering the same experience time and time again.

Hitspot,

Some people don't care if the host goes down. If you have a personal site and ca get hosting for $3.90 a year then you do it. When it goes down you move on.

What makes this case so scandalous is that it appears Shawn took the money from people and didn't provide services in a majority of the cases.

He went from running one sale to another. Distorting the truth and not being honest.

You do "get what you pay for", and this is a perfect example.

Not always, but usually. Look at Jaguar, you pay a lot for their cars, but they're one of the most un-reliable cars around. However if you look at the Honda Civic for example, it's a faily cheap car and it's good. Reliable, get's good gas mileage. Of course this is a webhosting forum, so I'm not really sure why I just rambled on about cars and stuff.

pgrote,
"What makes this case so scandalous is that it appears Shawn took the money from people and didn't provide services in a majority of the cases."
While I agree it is wrong what shawn did.. everyone who purchases from these companies and demands service for so little is equaly responsible. Web hosting is a real "service", and if your paying only $3.90/year then you did not "pay" for a service. Therefore, you should not expect one.

Sure, you can also pay an extremly high price and still have the company not provide quality service. However, what I am saying is that when you purchase the cheapest, it's not a matter of the companies "attitude" that sets them up for failure.. it's pure poor business planning. A true hosting service can not withstand over time at $1-2/month or $20/year, it just doesn't leave any room for profits. Therefore, anyone who plays with the fire will get burned.. and should expect to.

Originally posted by hitspot

While I agree it is wrong what shawn did.. everyone who purchases from these companies and demands service for so little is equaly responsible. Web hosting is a real "service", and if your paying only $3.90/year then you did not "pay" for a service. Therefore, you should not expect one.

Actually, if someone is offering it, then you should expect it (but at that price you shouldn't cry that loudly when it fails). Now those in the know will tell you that this wasn't a price that would sustain a business, but there are many who don't know that. After all, there are free web hosts out there, so people would automatically assume that there should be some cheap ones as well. So if Shawn burns everyone, you can't really blame them. Many of his customers simply did not know what it took to support a web hosting company. They just simply thought they had a good deal and jumped on.

And what of those people that paid real money? Everyone didn't get a multi-gigabyte reseller account for a dollar. Were they stupid? For some people things worked fine right up until the RS servers got turned off. So who could blame them for sticking around. There were many of them who didn't even know there was a problem until those servers went down. Too many people seem to want to blame the victims - they simply were offered a price and took it. While I still agree that many people who should have known better swallowed a lot of crap, I still can't place the blame on anyone but Shawn. He created this mess, and he fostered it instead of just getting it fixed before it got way out of hand. Heck, he'd have been better off folding earlier instead of keeping everyone hanging on. Oh well, someone will catch up with him soon enough, and then he'll really find out what running a business is like, since it appears that he is personally liable for a great deal of money.

I'm sure he will find out...and soon. I'm in the process of filing a 50 page fraud complaint with the Attorney General. They've requested a list of paperwork. It's finally compiled, and will be in the mail on Saturday.

I don't really give a crap about my 14 bucks. As soon as his server was down for 2 days, I moved on to a better host... I just want to make sure this jerk doesn't continue to take people's money and provide them with nothing. Cheap host, expensive host, no host... the man took money from people, provided them with nothing, and did not pay them back... Whether he sold them a stick of gum, a piece of poop, or a hosting plan, he didn't provide them the service he promised, and he should return the money. If he doesn't have it, he should file bankruptcy. Either way, he is personally responsible.

.....for that price you should only expect......
But thats great talking about a person who knows a bit about hosting. That type of customer got what the expected if they purchased from CW.

But there are other customers
I personaly had only hosted my sites at aol and geocities etc. For my hobby, family and scouts. I was/am a newbie

Then looking around e-bay I saw an ad that offered something cool. my own domain and space for a year for under 15 bucks. I got it. did I know anything about Band width costs etc. No !

Was I the perfect target for shawn J...yes!

It was fun while it lasted. I learned alot. Did I get what I deserved.....NO FREAKING WAY... I was new to the industry and a bit ignorant. Did I know of this board? No ..Blah blah blah.


I researched and found a new host. www.dixiesys.com

If I paid with 2CheckOut for some zaps in June, I should be able to get a refund, since I've gotten no service since then, right? I've heard that people through 2checkout haven't had as much problems as people with PayPal. So, I'm sorry for those who paid with PayPal. :(

BTW, I've finally realized that concept that you get what you pay for. My site was starting small, but has been growing ever since. I'm glad I've turned to these forums to seek better information about the hosting industry about which are good, and which are bad. At least now, I've moved on to another host, which has made me really happy.

May we all get our refunds...

While I agree it is wrong what shawn did.. everyone who purchases from these companies and demands service for so little is equaly responsible. Web hosting is a real "service", and if your paying only $3.90/year then you did not "pay" for a service. Therefore, you should not expect one.

I used to do support for a hosting company... and my supervisor always said "They want champagne, but they're paying for beer"

ChickenFart,

Yep and that's what people will always expect. It's the hosting company's job to ensure that their support policies meet their pricing criteria.

Originally posted by hostpc.com
I just don't understand how anyone can STILL have a site, or be loyal to cyberwings.com.

After a month and a half of NO service, lies, poor service, no refunds - people chose to stay with the company?

I felt REALLY bad for the customers that got screwed when they just flipped the switch at LS and RS - I thought most of them, if not all of them, had finally left. Guess not. :(

I find it amazing too. I'm in absolute freak mode if one of my servers is down for more than 15 minutes at any one point. I cannot imagine anyone stomaching being down that long. Its amazing, and unfortunate.

I hope I don't have to read another sad story like this for a while. Hell, stories like this are the reason I stopped reading ****edCompany.com regularly. Its too damn depressing. At first its funny, then you realize that someone you know works at one of the companies, then it isn't that funny anymore.

Take care,

Brian

I paid Cyberwings just under $8.00 in March and got three and a half months of rock solid hosting. I got excellent service from them the few times I had a problem or a question. Sure, there was no toll free number and it might take a few hours to a day to get a response but sh*t I paid EIGHT DOLLARS, what do you want? I still feel that I got good service for my money, and I got three and a half months of hosting at $2.27 per month. not too bad really. I applied for a refund yesterday so we'll see if I get anything back. I doubt it but what the heck?

Now, I admit that I was not trying to run a business off my site, nor did I depend upon it for anything else but as a hobby. I decided to set up the site mostly BECAUSE it was so cheap. I had fun doing it, my site was cheezy as hell and will be again soon.

Shawn over extended himself. I am sorry to disagree with those who feel victimized but businesses do this every day. He offered services that he could and did deliver for a time. I will put aside for the moment those whose money he took and never set up ANY site, I believe that is a different issue. These are the first people who should receive a refund. I do not believe that Cyberwings was a scam. Yes, it was a poorly run business but not a scam. One of the primary principles of entrepreneurship is that most new businesses fail. In a low margin business like economy web-hosting there is not much room for error. His business model did not work. ok.

I have been through a few failed businesses and a couple of bankruptcies (companies for whom I worked not personal). It is hard to know when to quit, there is STILL some money coming in and it is easy to ignore the fact the more is going out, your dept is increasing. Finally, something happens, you get your electricity cut off or someone ceases some vital assets (often much more valuable than your outstanding debt.) and you cannot fulfill your commitments. So now the sharks start circling, ripping in to you and your business. I will take Shawn's work that he and his employees received a great deal of abuse and several threats. We have all seen the viciousness of posts about him here (on this site) and on other sites. I assure you this does not make it easier to get up in the morning and work another 18-hour day to try and salvage something so you can at least pay part of your debts. Nor does it make one inclined to be honest, and straightforward and admit failure. Those are frightening things.

Flame me if you wish, though I would prefer reasoned discussion, but before you tear into Cyberwings and Shawn again, ask yourself if you have ever failed at anything. have you ever not done something you said you would, ever not complete each and every task anyone who was paying you gave you to their absolute satisfaction? Have you ever had anything break down and not had the money to fix it? Have you ever disappointed anyone? I know I have.

Finally, I am NOT excusing Shawn for lying or taking money for accounts he KNEW he could not deliver. I am not making excuses for his poor treatment of his employees or his customers. What I AM saying is let's have a little compassion. He HAS tried to pay some people back; the refunds were rolling for a while but with no new income that's hard to keep up. I have tried to be rational and adult about it, as have most of us. The short of it is his business failed (ok his "project.") Let's see if we can't give him room to salvage what he can. Perhaps we may see some return on our patience and consideration, even if it is only lowered blood pressure from just walking away a bit wiser.

My eight bucks worth...

Charles

*clap...... clap....... clap......*

:D

Something tells me shawn may still be back with a new company name and setup. May be this time he does the right thing :rolleyes:

Let's hope he moves on to selling get rich quick schemes and diet solutions. Oh.

Seriously, let's hope he's never allowed to prey on people again.

Lets Hope :rolleyes:

Originally posted by inogenius


Not always, but usually. Look at Jaguar, you pay a lot for their cars, but they're one of the most un-reliable cars around. However if you look at the Honda Civic for example, it's a faily cheap car and it's good. Reliable, get's good gas mileage. Of course this is a webhosting forum, so I'm not really sure why I just rambled on about cars and stuff.

I'm not a believer in "you get what you pay for" because often you pay a good price and still get the shaft. You can pay a decent price and get crappy hosting.

BUT I DO believe in "you don't get what you don't pay for." If you don't pay the price for a good service, you won't get a good service. If you pay a low price, you will hardly ever get good hosting!

Cheers,
BD :D

Originally posted by ChickenFart


I used to do support for a hosting company... and my supervisor always said "They want champagne, but they're paying for beer"

Ooops, missed this great quote on my first reading. This is definitely worth a bump!

Next time you see your former supervisor, buy him a beer!

BD :wavey:

Originally posted by charlesh
I paid Cyberwings just under $8.00 in March and got three and a half months of rock solid hosting. I got excellent service from them the few times I had a problem or a question. Sure, there was no toll free number and it might take a few hours to a day to get a response but sh*t I paid EIGHT DOLLARS, what do you want? I still feel that I got good service for my money, and I got three and a half months of hosting at $2.27 per month. not too bad really. I applied for a refund yesterday so we'll see if I get anything back. I doubt it but what the heck?

Now, I admit that I was not trying to run a business off my site, nor did I depend upon it for anything else but as a hobby. I decided to set up the site mostly BECAUSE it was so cheap. I had fun doing it, my site was cheezy as hell and will be again soon.

Shawn over extended himself. I am sorry to disagree with those who feel victimized but businesses do this every day. He offered services that he could and did deliver for a time. I will put aside for the moment those whose money he took and never set up ANY site, I believe that is a different issue. These are the first people who should receive a refund. I do not believe that Cyberwings was a scam. Yes, it was a poorly run business but not a scam. One of the primary principles of entrepreneurship is that most new businesses fail. In a low margin business like economy web-hosting there is not much room for error. His business model did not work. ok.


Finally, I am NOT excusing Shawn for lying or taking money for accounts he KNEW he could not deliver. I am not making excuses for his poor treatment of his employees or his customers. What I AM saying is let's have a little compassion. He HAS tried to pay some people back; the refunds were rolling for a while but with no new income that's hard to keep up. I have tried to be rational and adult about it, as have most of us. The short of it is his business failed (ok his "project.") Let's see if we can't give him room to salvage what he can. Perhaps we may see some return on our patience and consideration, even if it is only lowered blood pressure from just walking away a bit wiser.

My eight bucks worth...

Charles

I snipped a couple of paragraphs above for length and relevance to my point...

You and I share some ideas on this subject - it was cheap, so I jumped on too (I only paid 4 bucks). I didn't have much interest in putting up a site - I don't have much to say. It was merely a vehicle for me to practice some things that I haven't used (and still haven't, due to having a newborn at home). Now if Cyberwings fails I can understand it - it looked like a bad business model. That and the fact that businesses fail all the time makes me a reasonable person about it. The low price makes it easier on me as well - being currently unemployed, I just couldn't afford much more than what I paid (I'm reminded that I'm down to the last can of formula - time to go to the store).

But then you hit right on the crux of the matter - Shawn lied constantly, and mistreated his customers. He had many chances to salvage this - people offered to send him money if it would have helped (this is a strange sight to me - once a price is paid, it should be honored. But people begged to send in more money)! The amount of goodwill he burned through is astounding - I couldn't even imagine treating people the way that he did and have them coming back for more. And not just those that are cheap for wahtever reason, but people that begged to get abused. I truly think Shawn missed his calling - he could be a televangelist easily and be a rich man many times over. If he had just folded the tents and circled the wagons, he would have gotten off better than what he eventually will. But he chose to keep people sitting in chat rooms for hours at a time instead of ust being straight with anyone. Heck, he might have actually gotten away with a good chunk of his customers if he had. Some of the most vocal of them were also some of his biggest supporters, unitl he personally turned each and every one of them against him. And that is truly the part that people should be angry about.

Now I have to admit that I've probably gotten more than the true worth of my money - my site is currently up, however long it may last. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to walk away from my refund if I don't get a year out of it. He offered the price, I too it, so he should honor it or fold. And if he does fold (sure looks that way), I'm going to request my money back (knowing that chances are slim to none that I'll ever see it again). It's a matter of principle. I do also understand those that got taken for some real money (every one didn't sign up for a cheap account) being extremely angry to some of the extremes that they have gone to. As far as I'm concerned, Shawn has used up all of the compassion that he should get, and some other peoples as well. He burned his suppliers, his customers, and his staff (and by some accounts, even some of his friends), so I cannot offer him any more compassion. I may not be at the forefront of the pack, but I support their indignation. :cartman:

I worked for Cyberwings for about 2 months, and saw things from the inside unfortunatly. The other guys were good, worked hard etc. but it was always Shawn we were waiting for, to put a new server online, to get a new Plesk key thingy, to contact the company, to pay us (which happened once)....

At that point, I knew it was pure dodgy, especially as there was no customer database recording who bought what and how much they paid. I even tried to write one, for nothing, as I had pity on the customers who didnt realise what would happen in a years time.

But thats another story for another website ;)