Hello,

Does anyone have any advise or solutions for moving accounts off of H-Sphere?

I've had enough, and need to start making a migration plan asap.

Thanks

Greetings:

I'm sorry you've come to that decision.

You can use the migration documents listed on http://www.psoft.net/HSdocumentation/sysadmin/index.html for migrating away from H-Sphere as well as migrating to H-Sphere.

Thank you.

I just left h-sphere and you are best off doing everything manually. a HUGE pain but really the best way to do it

Yeah, I was afraid this would be a manual process. I had hoped that I could find someone that's done it and automated to some extent to another control panel.

May I ask what were your problems with H-Sphere? I haven't used it personally but the demo seemed good.

cannot speak for him but I left because of the overall pain it was. Couldn't find a decent system admin for a fair rate, and the people that were willing to give it a shot really had no clue. Required a ton of maintenence, broke frequently for no apparent reason. parallels owns them and that was the final straw for me.

I once worked for a company that decided to migrate off of Hsphere. It was an incredibly painful, fully manual process. I know it cost him a lot of money due to the long hours put in by skilled staff required to make such an operation go smoothly. The worst part is that six months later the company was looking for another Hsphere solution, which they still use to this day. I hope it turns out better for you and I wish you luck.

Greetings:

1. H-Sphere does have a horrendous front end learning curve that a lot of people take for granted.

Taking it for granted meaning, they do not read the documentation, do not plan out the infrastructure, and do not test out their plan prior to implementation.

2. When #1 is not done (i.e. learning curve taken for granted), things can break often, hosting providers get frustrated, customers complain, etc.

It is extremely rare for things to break at all if the learning curve is not taken for granted -- meaning that the documentation is thoroughly read, questions are asked / answered (or followed up on until answered), infrastructure is planned out, plan is tested prior to any implementation.

Doing number 1 can typically take two weeks (minimum prior to implementation) to a handful of months.

Thank you.

Hello,

I've been an H-Sphere user/admin since mid-2004 on multiple clusters and a professional linux admin for twice as long.

There are a lot of little problems that happen far too often. Things that are outside of normal maintenance and set up in the control panel. For example, one of my clients removed a domain and could not add it back because the control panel had a bug. Even with all traces of the domain removed in the control panel, there was still an entry in the database for the domain which was not removed. This required that someone manually edit the database tables to allow the control panel to add the domain again. This has happened twice to me on two different clusters.

At one point, all of the MRTG graphs were reverese (in was out, etc). When I reported this to H-Sphere, it was not a 'bug', but a feature to have correct usage graphs.

Now, it wasn't so bad up until lately. Until now, support may have not been the brightest bunch, but if you were persistent with your problem you could get a resolution (for the included fee of 20% annual support) NOW, it's $75/incident and paying them to fix what are problems created by errors in their software is too much.

I've never had a problem learning and using their systems. Just like anything, you have to take the time and learn it. If things worked as they were intended and they were not sold to parellels I would not be migrating.

Greetings Rob:

Sorry, I've not heard about you before in the H-Sphere forums as an admin. Though you probably have a different handle there.

We've been using H-Sphere for 5+ years out of our 13 years in business. The bugs have been few for the most part.

On MRTG graphs in reverse, I've seen this on regular MRTG, LanSpy and other bandwidth monitoring products based on the network infrastructure.

May I ask that as an admin why you felt you had to use Parallels support rather than work it out yourself?

Most of the admins in the Positive Software forum have stated they rarely have to submit tickets because they work out things for themselves; though from time to time, for pure coding issues, we have submitted tickets.

Was it like that for you? i.e. using support due to issues of pure code (theirs)?

There's also free bug reporting per http://www.parallels.com/support/hsphere/ (bottom of the page).

Thank you.

Sorry, I've not heard about you before in the H-Sphere forums as an admin. Though you probably have a different handle there.Yes I do. You give the same cookie cutter read the documentation answers there as well, even to problems that have no documented solution. We have also talked on the phone, and it's clear you only post to get people to contact you further and purchase your services.

We've been using H-Sphere for 5+ years out of our 13 years in business. The bugs have been few for the most part.Bugs happen quite often, and the software is far from 'stable' as new changes are introduced regularly. For example, changing mail behavior and enabling TLS which broke quite a few things. If I were trying to get people to pay my company to manage their H-Sphere clusters, I would hide the facts as well.


On MRTG graphs in reverse, I've seen this on regular MRTG, LanSpy and other bandwidth monitoring products based on the network infrastructure.Yep, and they ALL have a way to invert the graphs to display correctly. This is critical, considering we were billing on outbound bandwidth only. Step back and think about it. The usage is only recording the inbound traffic as billable (because we bill out only and graphs were reverse) What a feature huh?

May I ask that as an admin why you felt you had to use Parallels support rather than work it out yourself?Because not all problems are resolvable, such as when they introduced a bug in a patch that didn't reset bandwidth counters. All of my clients reported double bandwidth usage the next month. It took a very long argument for them to even look at the problem. At least they admitted that this one was a bug and not a feature. Here is a documented example of this problem. I can produce many others, and I would say this is typical support pre-parallels (it's worst now)
http://robertsanders.digitalferret.com/index.php?/archives/39-Positive-Software-H-Sphere-over-billing-clients,-support-ignoring-problems-as-usual.html

They first refused to even acknowledge there even is a problem. It wasn't until I posted this information public and other people actually looked at the information that I got a resolution.

This is typical support for H-Sphere.

Most of the admins in the Positive Software forum have stated they rarely have to submit tickets because they work out things for themselves; though from time to time, for pure coding issues, we have submitted tickets.
Was it like that for you? i.e. using support due to issues of pure code (theirs)?
Yup, I've never had to submit a ticket for anything that wasn't a result of a problem in their software. I have also used their migration assistance, which I gladly paid for. Even then, the technician used space separation in the config file and not tabs, so when the server was rebooted 8 months later none of the IP's came up. When I contacted support, they tried to blame our technicians for their mistakes. Another common problem I had with them, no matter what happen it was always our fault.


There's also free bug reporting per http://www.parallels.com/support/hsphere/ (bottom of the page).There sure is, and I've never got them to recognize problems as bugs, such as the MRTG 'feature' To further add insult to injury, they now charge for these tickets.

I didn't post any problems about H-Sphere because I didn't want to start yet another rant on WHT.

Really, I don't need to justify my reasons for leaving H-Sphere. I need solutions for migration.

Parallels charge for every second you're with them(except sales). Its monopoly. No competitors, high prices.

I would really like to see some competitors who don't end up being acquired by Parallels. If there's competition, prices slash. They can'y live with something as cPanel does.

Greetings Rob:

I'm sure as an experienced administrator you will find a way to do the task. That's both the fun as well as frustration of what we do.

Thank God we were not hit with the TLS bug business you mentioned; nor were our customers, so no one had to pay anything to anyone extra.

Thank you for pointing out the bandwidth bug that did exist; that was a period of time some time ago... didn't they fix it promptly?

On the tab vs. spaces in the ip file, years back that was an issue (you had to have one and not the other), but to my knowledge H-Sphere 3.0.0 P9 doesn't suffer from that issue.

What we end up facing most of the time is acting prior to reading the documentation.

In any event, Parallels has shaken things up a bit; and you are not alone in being frustrated.

As I shared in my earlier post, the migration documentation can work both ways -- for importing as well as exporting.

Thank you.

Yeah, I guess the fun of doing this work is the challenge isn't it?

I've read the docs, and it's not something I want to learn on my own. Moving it manually almost seems easier than using the migration.

I'm sure new clients will take a few years to have had enough of their own issues, and the cycle continues.

I salute your perseverance as well, for dealing with the same software and still managing a positive attitude :)

H-Sphere is taking a bit of a beating in here, and I can understand why. however, honestly, ALOT of the complaints I have seen in this thread are mostly related to people not having proper hsphere admin experience in house (or not having outsourced their environment to a provider capable of managing this). I have seen very seasoned admins crumble when it came to hsphere. The learning curve, even for seasoned admins is steap - but, we have seen admins in Level2 roles learn, overtime to be very effective level3 admins for hsphere. Lets face it, you arent dealing with a single point of expertise here. An hsphere admin needs very very strong java experience, solid networking best practices, BSD, Linux, Windows, Sharepoint, Coldfusion, Exchange expertise, etc... now you can certainly have admins on top of that which specialize in various fields - but, in order to be a successful hsphere admin, you need to be strong in all of the above. and in order to be a successful hsphere provider - you need an admin capable of everything mentioned (either your own, or outsourced, etc). Now, this is no different then cpanel for example - you absolutely need admin(s) that can effectively manage and maintain these environments - however, with cpanel, a good admin is required to have a much smaller skillset, and as such are certainly easier to find and generally less expensive. Once hsphere is setup and administered properly, the reported issues like the ones mentioned in this thread will disapear..

for example, I loved this comment as it was flat out honest..

cannot speak for him but I left because of the overall pain it was. Couldn't find a decent system admin for a fair rate, and the people that were willing to give it a shot really had no clue.

this is the most telling statement and the 1 tangible fact that has kept hsphere a very niche like solution - lack of qualified admins to manage this thing (again because of the broad range of skillsets required).

Required a ton of maintenence, broke frequently for no apparent reason.

these types of problems are "not" normal for hsphere. hsphere is simply one of the most stable systems we have ever worked with. bugs are a fact of life with complex systems like this, but, we havent seen very many serious bugs over the years and almost every confirmed bug has been addressed as one would expect. The only issue we have with hsphere is the real inherent lack of scalability in the control panel service itself. Unless one customizes the ability to load balance the actual CP service, I would say the max capacity of an existing control panel server setup is 75-125 servers before needing to start a new cluster. but, based on my comments above, I certainly understand where you are coming from.

parallels owns them and that was the final straw for me.

fair enough. I have heard that complaint a few times from a few people. my experience with parallels has been pretty good. though granted, we havent used them (or psoft before them) for support in probably close to 5 years.

fair enough. I have heard that complaint a few times from a few people. my experience with parallels has been pretty good. though granted, we havent used them (or psoft before them) for support in probably close to 5 years.

You're one of the handful of customers who supports parallel.

You're one of the handful of customers who supports parallel.

thats why I said seems like a fair enough complaint - but, my experience with them has been nothing but good so far. professional at every level and so far have kept to their word with me about their direction, intentions, etc...

There are a lot of little problems that happen far too often. Things that are outside of normal maintenance and set up in the control panel. For example, one of my clients removed a domain and could not add it back because the control panel had a bug. Even with all traces of the domain removed in the control panel, there was still an entry in the database for the domain which was not removed. This required that someone manually edit the database tables to allow the control panel to add the domain again. This has happened twice to me on two different clusters.

yes, this does happen sometimes with hsphere. no doubt about it. the bigger the cluster, the greater the likelihood. you have multiple servers communicating back to the control panel server simultaneously during functions such as adding domains, deleting domains, etc.. and sometimes (ie very very rarely) a record gets stuck in some tables in the DB and not properly removed. usually doesnt cause a problem, and will be removed/cleaned on the next pgsql vacuum process (unless of course the user tries adding the domain back before your next vacuum process)

I'm not an hsphere admin by any means (thankfully our staff are though :) ) - but, a few things you are missing:

1) there is the tool within hsphere to correct a domain in the db that isnt setup properly
2) you probably need to run the pgsql hsphere vacuum process more often to avoid this
3) you can easily create a script for the admin cp used by support staff to delete all references from the DB from a domain when this does happen

At one point, all of the MRTG graphs were reverese (in was out, etc).

yes, this was certainly a bug, but, I think this is really stretching it to come up with this as a "problem" with hsphere


Really, I don't need to justify my reasons for leaving H-Sphere. I need solutions for migration.

fair enough - hopefully whatever you have decided to go with is a better fit for your requirements..

Hi,

Long time was not here and did not saw this discussion, here is my 2 cents too.

I have a small H-Sphere installation and I'm thinking off H-Shpere too. But my reasons are little bit other. In my case H-Sphere (version 3.0) works pretty well and stable, meybe just because I have a very small load yet, I've moved only 50 domains to H-Sphere managed cluster.
My reasons is that it does not fits my business. I wanna sell plans but H-Sphere is made to sell the resources (mailboxes, space, traffic and so on), I thought that I can configure it to fit the business but it is too complex and uncomfortable. Also it is difficult to make any changes to already sold hosting - change the domain type, switch between linux/windows, rename the domain and so on. Every that "move" causes needs to remove the resources and re-create them from scratch.

And now I'm looking for a panel that will be good enough to go to it from H-Sphere. I know only Hostingcontroller (I need both Windows / Linux hosting) but I seems to be not so mature like H-Sphere does... Please advice me another H-Sphere alternative but not Plesk.

Hello Gosha


I have a small H-Sphere installation and I'm thinking off H-Shpere too. But my reasons are little bit other. In my case H-Sphere (version 3.0) works pretty well and stable, meybe just because I have a very small load yet, I've moved only 50 domains to H-Sphere managed cluster.

I do not think that the small number of domains are the reason you are stable. Likely it is because your cluster is setup and configured properly. We (and many others) are hosting 1000's upon 1000's of domains without issue on a single install of an hsphere cluster.

My reasons is that it does not fits my business. I wanna sell plans but H-Sphere is made to sell the resources (mailboxes, space, traffic and so on), I thought that I can configure it to fit the business but it is too complex and uncomfortable.

Can you provide some additional details on how you are trying to configure your plans - maybe an hsphere user can help you?

Also it is difficult to make any changes to already sold hosting

I see what you are saying, but, I am not sure any control panel can easily address this

- change the domain type,

Do you mean from hosted domain to lets say a domain that is also registered through hsphere and the integrated registrar services for example? there is a 3rd party module to handle this, but, again, I am not sure any solution can make these sorts of switches easily and seamlessly

switch between linux/windows,

this is pretty self explanatory. moving between windows and linux can never really be seamless. having said this, you should consider upgrading your hsphere install as the latest and greatest has this capability I believe (though, I am not sure we would use it as it would just create secondary issues typically related to clients scripts, etc)

rename the domain and so on.

I apologize, but, I am really confused with this one. You cant just "rename" a DNS zone and expect apache or IIS to recognize that. What you can do though is rename the domain web folder to something else (ie from domain.com to domain.com.new), then delete the old domain name in the hsphere CP, re-add the domain with the new name (ie domainnew.com) then rename the original folder from domain.com.new to domainnew.com - this way hsphere, apache or IIS and the data in FTP all match up and will work properly.

Every that "move" causes needs to remove the resources and re-create them from scratch.

sorry, not sure I understand this part, so, probably cannot be of too much assistance here

And now I'm looking for a panel that will be good enough to go to it from H-Sphere. I know only Hostingcontroller (I need both Windows / Linux hosting) but I seems to be not so mature like H-Sphere does... Please advice me another H-Sphere alternative but not Plesk.

There is simply nothing else available that can do what hsphere does - so, even though it can be a little clumsy and even though it isnt naturally the most intuitive solution - there certainly isnt anything else that can do the types of things you are looking for.

I am not sure my answers are what you wanted to hear, but, hopefully they were helpful none the less...

I have made a parked domain in H-Sphere. H-Sphere allowed me to make an emails for this parked domain. Now client wants to move website to our servers... H-Sphere's forum said me that I have to remove the domain and create it again????
Second, I want to rename the domain? Why CP can confgure apache, qmail and so on when I'm making new domain but can't do it when I wanna rename old one???
Same with platform cahnge, why CP can't create a Windows website, move the files from Linux to Windows, recreate DNS records (www and domain.com. A) and remove Linux site? Is it differs from creating new site much?
And for charging for plans. I wanna sell to clients the following plan, for eaxmple:

5 emails.
1 domain, up to 3 subdomains.
1 static website.

This is a startup hosting. I want them to pay me 35 eek for this plan. And, of course, some additional money for additional emails, websites and so on. It's simple to make. Then I want to let my dauther company (made as a receller) to sell same plan to her client's and pay me for each sold plan 20 eek, charge 35 eek to her clients. Another company (too reseller) will provide same plan to her clients for free but will pay me 20 eek per provided plan. Is it possible with H-Sphere? I'm think that it's not possible.
I want to limit common space used by emails, not by each mailbox, it's too inpossible with H-Spere.

Has someone compared Hostingcontroller with H-Sphere? Is there some other control panel, other that H-Sphere and Hosting controller that can handle Windows / Linux cluster?

I have made a parked domain in H-Sphere. H-Sphere allowed me to make an emails for this parked domain. Now client wants to move website to our servers... H-Sphere's forum said me that I have to remove the domain and create it again????

Yes, that is correct, however, I have heard there is a 3rd party module available that could handle this

Second, I want to rename the domain? Why CP can confgure apache, qmail and so on when I'm making new domain but can't do it when I wanna rename old one???

because adding a new domain is not the same as renaming a domain.

Same with platform cahnge, why CP can't create a Windows website, move the files from Linux to Windows, recreate DNS records (www and domain.com. A) and remove Linux site? Is it differs from creating new site much?

as previously indicated, you can move from linux to windows - but, you must admit, they are completely different technologies. Using the CP to do this move will create additional problems for you as far as client scripts go..

And for charging for plans. I wanna sell to clients the following plan, for eaxmple:

5 emails.
1 domain, up to 3 subdomains.
1 static website.

Sure, create the plan using the plan creation wizard. Enter in limits of 5 emails and a charge for overage, enter in a 1 domain limit and a charge for overages and the same for subdomains. do not include mysql in this plan - mission accomplished.

This is a startup hosting. I want them to pay me 35 eek for this plan. And, of course, some additional money for additional emails, websites and so on. It's simple to make.

it is simple, see above

Then I want to let my dauther company (made as a receller) to sell same plan to her client's and pay me for each sold plan 20 eek, charge 35 eek to her clients. Another company (too reseller) will provide same plan to her clients for free but will pay me 20 eek per provided plan. Is it possible with H-Sphere? I'm think that it's not possible.

no, this is not possible in hsphere (or most other control panels that I am aware of). Hsphere will allow you to make your plans available to your resellers to sell, but, the end users will pay your resellers, not you for that plan. This is pretty much how every solution works...

I want to limit common space used by emails, not by each mailbox, it's too inpossible with H-Spere.

you have 2 options. You can use "summary disk usage" or not use summary disk usage. If you do not use this feature, then each resource will be limited by the space you allocated. If you use summary disk usage, then users can utilize their total disk space allocation however they like.

Honestly, reading your comments, there isnt ANY control panel that could meet your requirements. You want some pretty specialized and unique functionality. I can understand all of these requirements and why you would want them, but, I think it is a little unfair to blame hsphere for not having this functionality when they really arent common features in hosting control panels.

Has someone compared Hostingcontroller with H-Sphere? Is there some other control panel, other that H-Sphere and Hosting controller that can handle Windows / Linux cluster?

Hosting Controller is promising, but, it is still nowhere near as eveolved as hsphere and you would be lacking even more functionality which frankly, you are currently taking for granted. As for another option - no, one does not exist - and especially not one that would meet your very specific requirements.

no, this is not possible in hsphere (or most other control panels that I am aware of). Hsphere will allow you to make your plans available to your resellers to sell, but, the end users will pay your resellers, not you for that plan. This is pretty much how every solution works...



It's not possible in H-Sphere. Other panels allows to charge reseller per sold plan. It's not a specific requrement, it's every day needs and I beleave that most hosters need this.

I will evaluate HC7 in nearest time. Hope to meet other competitive product too.

we are looking at potentially buying a large H-sphere webhost, it looked like a good company, strong financials, but we currently looking at the migration from H-sphere to cPanel, so far it's not good news.

Have anyone of you tried that on a large scale (+20k clients)

:)
D

cPanel has a lot of security issues and can not manage linux/windows cluster

cPanel has a lot of security issues and can not manage linux/windows cluster
Ummm... can you please post some of the "security issues" you are speaking of?

(And yes, cpanel is currently a linux-only solution. They do not have a windows-hosting control panel yet. Although apparently they're working on one.)

Will not discuss there issues now but cPanel is a most crackable solution, maybe this is because it is most widely used.

Will not discuss there issues now but cPanel is a most crackable solution, maybe this is because it is most widely used.
Well, you've made your claim, so please provide proof to back it up. If cpanel is "the most crackable solution", then by all means please post your proof.

There are thousands of cpanel hosts in these forums, and I'm sure all of us are interested to see what proof you have.

Well, I have no own experience with cPanel, but please write in Google "cPanel security issue" and "H-Sphere security issue" and you will see the difference. Of course each case should be discussed separately but the number this cases talkes himself.
And well, I should not say this, please excuse me. And please let's stop discuss this here because the thread was about getting off H-Sphere but cPanel unfortunatley can't be used instead of H-Spehre at least because Windows support.

Well, I have no own experience with cPanel, but please write in Google "cPanel security issue" and "H-Sphere security issue" and you will see the difference.

lol. Well, if google says so, then it must be true! :rolleyes:

Well, you've made your claim, so please provide proof to back it up. If cpanel is "the most crackable solution", then by all means please post your proof.

There are thousands of cpanel hosts in these forums, and I'm sure all of us are interested to see what proof you have.

Hi mrzippy -

cpanel has been hit with several pretty critical exploits

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=cpanel+exploit&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

I'm not saying one way or another whether it is more secure or insecure then other solutions - however, it is a fair comment to say that it has seen several such exploits, especially recently.

As for Windows support - they have been working on this for years and years. Apparently they are finally starting from the ground up and as such, will probably get there relatively quickly now that they are going this route.

we are looking at potentially buying a large H-sphere webhost, it looked like a good company, strong financials, but we currently looking at the migration from H-sphere to cPanel, so far it's not good news.

Have anyone of you tried that on a large scale (+20k clients)

:)
D

Trying to migrate 20k clients from a multi-server clustered environment to single server cpanel installs will not be an easy task at all - and will be impossible if some of those clients are windows based :)

Honestly, why bother - customers that are used to hsphere will scream and shout about moving to something like cpanel - the tough part about being an hsphere provider is getting customers who are used to cpanel to try it - once they try it and get used to it, very rarely do you see them going back to cpanel (the trick with hsphere is to keep a customer past 2-3 months, once you accomplish that, they are hooked and asking them to go back to cpanel is the equivalent of asking them to take a pretty big step backwards)