Hey everyone.

I plan on having a site developed in the near future. I was curious as to see which language you would all prefer.

Choices:
PHP4
PHP5
ASP.Net

This is going to be an expedia style site managing multiple hotel properties, carrying out transactions, and comment system. As well as email support.

Thank you,
Shade

Hi,

I think you should opt for PHP 5 and MYSQL 5. As they are well known opensource and lot of advantages and very cheap. As a PHP developer I would only recomment LAMP :)

Hey everyone.

I plan on having a site developed in the near future. I was curious as to see which language you would all prefer.

Choices:
PHP4
PHP5
ASP.Net

This is going to be an expedia style site managing multiple hotel properties, carrying out transactions, and comment system. As well as email support.

Thank you,
Shade

If its going to be large system, then go for Asp.net because it makes development easy and app can be secure!

Both has its crons and pros so if there is cost factor go for LAMP and hire a highly professional team of developers to code.

PHP is easily hackable if the developers code is too buggy and non pro!:stickout:

Actually I was going to propose PHP so we can hack it.
Anyway a good coder can do the same thing in .NET as with PHP.
The only difference is the ease and comfort of the studio.

I vote for PHP which keeps the costs low.

I would undoubtedly go with ASP.Net.

I've done heavy development in all of the mentioned technologies (PHP 4 & 5, and ASP.Net). And, ASP.Net has a few big things going for it.

ASP.Net has:
- "Compiled" code (speeds application response compared to interpreted code)
- Partial-page output caching (allows you to selectively choose areas of a page to cache...easily saving database hits, especially on high traffic sites)
- Rapid development
- Makes it relatively easy to use best practices, like stored procedures, parameterized SQL queries, object-oriented programming, etc.
- Many languages

PHP has:
- "Compiled" code (but not natively, and not installed on many hosts)
- Cheaper hosting and free software
- A lot of free scripts

In short, I'd go with ASP.Net for a site that is expected to sustain a high level of traffic due to its compiled code and output caching abilities. I've also been able to write more code in less time and at the same time have it be more secure and faster.

I'm not saying that PHP or the LAMP platform is slow or bad. I've used it for years for various purposes. But at the moment, for a big site, ASP.Net is what I'd choose.

i prefer php5 and mysql. I hate asp.net cuz of framework

i prefer php5 and mysql. I hate asp.net cuz of framework

Whats the problem with the framework.??:)

I wouldn't go for ASP, basically for the reason that ASP is for windows, thus paying extra for webhosting.

PHP5 & Mysql5 should fit your needs fine!

A knowledgeable PHP coder can make a web app in the same time as a programmer using ASP.NET, if the PHP programmer has his own library of code or is using a framework that he/she is familiar with.

ASP.NET coders don't come cheap, but then again if you want the same system done professionally in PHP you are going to have to spend a dime or two anyways.

I personally don't like ASP.NET because of the way it forces you into a corner with your coding. You have to fight the language at times to accomplish a few things that can be done simply in PHP. But then again in ASP.NET it is harder to leave little security holes and whatnot, but like I said if someone knows a PHP framework really well, it is not an issue.

With that said, either one will do the job, and it's really up to personal preference.

Does ASP.NET run on Linux?

ASP.NET does run on linux. I personally prefer ASP.NET over PHP.

1. ASP.NET performs better
2. ASP.NET is a lot more secure (php can be made secure, but this requires a lot of work)
3. ASP.NET is easier to develop with

The only con with ASP.NET is the cost.

I always say there's no "better" programming language. Can you say English is better than French? Even if you say so, can this be necessarily true?

ASP.NET does run on linux. I personally prefer ASP.NET over PHP.

1. ASP.NET performs better
2. ASP.NET is a lot more secure (php can be made secure, but this requires a lot of work)
3. ASP.NET is easier to develop with

The only con with ASP.NET is the cost.

CAN be? Sure. SHOULD be? Very debatable.

1. Prove it.
2. I keep seeing this - this is nonsensical. ASP.NET (btw ASP.NET isn't a language.. which language are we using? VB? C#?) is as secure as PHP. Why? Because its all up to the programming. Or are you arguing that the LAMP stack is less secure than the standard ASP.NET stack of Windows, IIS and MS SQL?
3. Again, completely subjective - the individual developer may find it easier to use Visual Studio, or he may find it easier to use Eclipse. Or some other IDE. Or just use vim on a Linux box. Completely subjective, and I can find you a guy who uses pico for most his coding that will produce more, higher quality code than most Visual Studio guys, so.. all subjective.

And again, we're presently comparing .NET and PHP. This is nonsensical. This is stupid. Why is this being argued? PHP IS A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE. .NET IS NOT. ASP IS NOT. ASP.NET IS NOT. ASP.NET is a framework.

To properly compare this, you need to dig further in, and choose the language you're using on the .NET solution, AND choose which framework you'll be using on the PHP side. Then you'd be comparing a language and framework vs a language and framework, and it might be worth arguing at all. Arguing security, stability, speed of development or performance for ASP.NET over PHP or PHP over ASP.NET w/o further clarifications on WHAT solution you're doing with PHP or ASP.NET is like arguing that a BMW performs better than an apple tree. You see my point?

ASP.Net without doubting

Its not fair to compare PHP to ASP.NET.

ASP.NET wins hands down as its part of a bigger platform.

Its going to get intresting when you can use PHP as a native langage in DOTNET

Personally, I think it is quite fair to compare ASP.Net to PHP. But I believe when most people refer to PHP they include whatever is required to run it (mod_fastcgi, FastCGI isapi, etc) as it wouldn't be serving webpages without that. And, in that case the equivalents are basically:

Some .Net Language/ASP.Net = PHP/FastCGI

It's really more of a platform comparison than a language comparison.

Both are used to accomplish the same goals. Both run on a webserver. Both are marketed for the same purpose and are competitors.

Consider a Windows server running IIS. PHP/FastCGI would be installed and registered in IIS as an ISAPI extension. ASP.Net is also an ISAPI extension registered in IIS (IIS can exist without ASP.Net). Each ISAPI extension processes its respective assigned file types.

As far as ASP.Net being part of a larger framework, yes, it does use the .Net framework and managed code. But that is also kind of misleading. ASP.Net is a request processing engine, much like PHP/FastCGI. How it accomplishes the request handling is really beside the point.

If PHP.Net is ever released, I doubt it'd have any significant difference over any other .Net compatible language. As all the languages are reduced to MSIL (basically like Java bytecode) and if the languages are doing the same thing, they will produce similar code.

Well if compare the features available to both on the platform, i.e. the other resources which are available. I dont see PHP coming out on top.

Lets consider the lanage differences, I dont see how anyone would suggest PHP was in any way a better language.


And if you're going to compare the whole platform like I suggested, ASP.NET wins on the weight that is has more features, not becuase it has more users like PHP users like to keep pointing out.


But all that said, I'll conceed that it is also task dependent. I can see instances where a quick and dirty apporach would be better suited to PHP than ASP.NET and PHP is certainly easier to pikcup from a web designers point of view.

Yeah, PHP definitely has the advantage of being easier to pick-up (although it is kind of a mess of a language, haha). In fact, a former co-worker of mine (a graphic designer) just sent me a page he'd done today...and it was in PHP making database calls, displaying nicely formatted results, etc. He'd never programmed before.

I think PHP makes more sense to a lot of people, and it is more flexible in many ways (e.g. there is no easy equivalant to include() or require() in ASP.Net).

PHP also has a ton more ready-to-go software for almost any purpose. Need a blog...wordpress (etc), a forum...phpBB (or a hundred others), CMS...Joomla, PHP-Nuke, etc. ASP.Net stuff is more rare, and isn't often available for free.

I use PHP (vBulletin) for my site currently (as I had to get it launched over a weekend last year). But now I'm looking at a rewrite in ASP.Net.

ASP.NET does run on linux. I personally prefer ASP.NET over PHP.

1. ASP.NET performs better
2. ASP.NET is a lot more secure (php can be made secure, but this requires a lot of work)
3. ASP.NET is easier to develop with

The only con with ASP.NET is the cost.
Have you used any software written with .NET on Linux? Because I have, and I wouldn't recommend it.

What has software written in .NET running on a Linux box got to do with ASP.NET?

What has software written in .NET running on a Linux box got to do with ASP.NET?
Did you read BKerry argument? I was punching holes in it. Why is that so hard to understand?

For people that are comparing PHP5 against asp.net .... let's compare at least PHP WITH a framework (Zend for instance or Prado which is quite similar to asp.net).

Also, if you are just comparing about the language, any of you tried phalanger ? ... php for .Net as .Net is a framework php can use it and it works just as it's supposed to :)

Hey guys, this is a never ending debate.
My two cents:

I am a asp.net developer (coming from php).
Many of the things that makes it better are already mentioned here.

One of the members said that it forces you in a corner. Acutally I have found it to be the complete opposite, yes your right that its fully managed code and you have a lot of security, but i've been able to do sutff with .net easily!

and for all you php guys, check out phlanger. To make a long story short, it runs PHP on the .net compiler therefore making it up to 10 - 20 % faster.

Personally, I think PHP5 is better than ASP on Linux, on Windows servers, there is no comparison :)

What you're going to use to develop your application depends on how much maneuverability you want in the long run.

If you're happy paying massive $$$ for microsoft licensing, developers for ASP, then you're going to want to stick with ASP.

If, on the other hand, you want something that can be moved from A to B, is portable, and you won't have to worry about much on the end server, then go with php.

ASP , I can't speak much for, because I don't use proprietary languages (is it even a language) that only run on systems supported by Microsoft. That's just insane to do.

PHP, I've personally been using for better than 8 years now, it hasn't let me down, and I actually enjoy the learning process. Being a C programmer for years, the php flow came natural to me, and I couldn't really speak much bad about the language itself.

Again, it's all about portability. If you're looking for something set in stone that you'll ALWAYS have to pay microsoft for, then go with ASP. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and use php.

ASP does not work properly on linux servers. It is not supported by microsoft, and there are numerous problems with the platforms (addons) that run the thing.

Mono!

It runs perfect on Linux servers

Mono!

It runs perfect on Linux servers
No it doesn't. Have you used Mono?

I've attempted every product out there for ASP on linux servers, due to client request, and let me tell you, NOTHING works perfectly. Even sun's product (what was chilisoft?) doesn't work perfectly.

Unfortunately, that's what you get with a proprietary license, a whole lot of proprietary garbage.

I've attempted every product out there for ASP on linux servers, due to client request, and let me tell you, NOTHING works perfectly. Even sun's product (what was chilisoft?) doesn't work perfectly.

Unfortunately, that's what you get with a proprietary license, a whole lot of proprietary garbage.
This is one of the reasons keeping me from learning anything .NET. I've tried it, it's nice, but I'm not fond of Windows. I've spent most of my time learning Ruby.

What you're going to use to develop your application depends on how much maneuverability you want in the long run.

If you're happy paying massive $$$ for microsoft licensing, developers for ASP, then you're going to want to stick with ASP.

If, on the other hand, you want something that can be moved from A to B, is portable, and you won't have to worry about much on the end server, then go with php.

ASP , I can't speak much for, because I don't use proprietary languages (is it even a language) that only run on systems supported by Microsoft. That's just insane to do.

PHP, I've personally been using for better than 8 years now, it hasn't let me down, and I actually enjoy the learning process. Being a C programmer for years, the php flow came natural to me, and I couldn't really speak much bad about the language itself.

Again, it's all about portability. If you're looking for something set in stone that you'll ALWAYS have to pay microsoft for, then go with ASP. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and use php.

ASP does not work properly on linux servers. It is not supported by microsoft, and there are numerous problems with the platforms (addons) that run the thing.

Ruby on rails is a good option to look on but in terms of support it lacks!

Microsoft technologies are good enough if you are planning something big!

PHP very buggy and may let you fall down if the app is security prone.

Java is the best if you have the best programmer. In terms of security, you can make the app really so secure since being compiled language.

PHP very buggy and may let you fall down if the app is security prone.

Yeah RIGHT
PHP 'very buggy', my tail end. PHP itself is not 'very buggy'. Just because developers tend to be lazy and not code properly doesn't make php buggy at all.

Security Prone apps are going to happen anywhere, whether it's ASP, php, whatever, so that's not even something to consider.

RoR , not standard yet, though it's getting there.

Wow, wow! Let me jump again in this boat.
PHP very buggy? Okay...
Years of programming with PHP i've never falled onto a bug.

Let me state what I've written in the past somewhere in this forum, kind of rephrase what linux-tech says.

Users or coders if you like, writing in php are users that have entered the programming world from the wrong door. So not knowing good programming practices you are prown to security holes, in conjuction with that these users never bother to
read the manual. They go around forums asking how i do this and that and think that they have made the perfect app by pasting code from everywhere.

Sorry I'm really hard and absolute on the above opinion because i come from a C world and i have been taught programming.

You could install all of them, plesk support them.
You haven't read the thread, have you?

There are a few bugs in PHP, but honestly you won't run into them unless you are doing some complicated math or something, and is due to bugs within C and not PHP. I can't speak the same for ASP.NET but I'm pretty sure nothing is perfect and bug-free.

However, referring to PHP as "buggy" is sending the wrong message, because it is not. PHP can actually be compiled, in fact there are a few desktop applications written entirely in PHP and some GUI that was made for PHP.

Steve Arm I will completely agree with you. PHP can be written beautifully (I consider phpBB3 to be written very well, but everyone gives 'em crap for using globals) and horribly (hotscripts.com ....) If the person writing the program knows nothing about good programming practices, design patterns, etc. The code is going to be ugly.

I think the future of PHP will be amazing. PHP5 opened a lot by introducing full support for objects. I've read people switching from PHP to Ruby on Rails and then back again to PHP because PHP is out of its infancy/adolescence now.

In my eyes PHP5 is much better, I can't stand ASP.NET.

PHP is not less secure or slower than asp.net.

In my eyes PHP5 is much better, I can't stand ASP.NET.

In my eyes, opinions without any reasoning whatsoever behind them don't hold much water.


PHP is not less secure or slower than asp.net.

The problem isn't built-in problems, it is that it is simply easier to write insecure code with PHP. It is possible to write a high-quality, secure PHP site...but not as fast and easy as it is to write a high-quality, secure ASP.Net site.

As far as speed goes, what do you base your claim on? Are you saying PHP is equal to ASP.Net, or that it exceeds it?

I recommend PHP over ASP, specifically because of the cost savings to your business as well as flexibility.

# ASP is pretty much restricted to windows operating systems, thus restricting your choices for hosts.

# PHP runs on most standard operating systems and web servers.

# PHP coders are easier to find and less expensive overall.

# You can do anything in PHP you can do in ASP and PHP is blazing fast as long as you are not running it as a cgi.

With that said however, there is only one instance which I will recommend ASP over PHP; and that is if you need to interact directly with the win32 or win64 api as ASP can interact with it easier and I think it has better libraries to connect with the windows api. So for instance if you needed an applciation to manage active directory on a domain controller, I would recommend asp. Anything else PHP will do just fine.

I recommend PHP over ASP, specifically because of the cost savings to your business as well as flexibility.

# ASP is pretty much restricted to windows operating systems, thus restricting your choices for hosts.
Wrong, it runs on almost everything, there are few decent hosts which dont offer Windows solutions, and most offer Windows 2003 Web Edition Free.

# PHP runs on most standard operating systems and web servers.
So Does ASP.NET

# PHP coders are easier to find and less expensive overall.
Are all PHP coders trained or do they hack it together?

# You can do anything in PHP you can do in ASP and PHP is blazing fast as long as you are not running it as a cgi.
Depends what you are doing
And is PHP as quick as ASP.NET then? Id like to see the evidence

With that said however, there is only one instance which I will recommend ASP over PHP; and that is if you need to interact directly with the win32 or win64 api as ASP can interact with it easier and I think it has better libraries to connect with the windows api. So for instance if you needed an applciation to manage active directory on a domain controller, I would recommend asp. Anything else PHP will do just fine.

Windows api? If you interact with that is hardly ASP.NET that would be unmanaged code then! And you could just as easily hack something together on php to do the same. ASP.NET gives you access to .NET framework, that means most run of the mill tasks are there ready to be used, including many Windows API call alternatives


What about the IDE for developing PHP?
Dreamweaver? Delphi for PHP? Eclipse?

Last time I checked none of them came close to the feature set of VS2008

nusphere.com/?IDE - its simply the best IDE for PHP. I have evaluated most others and its super fast and very complete.

To note, Codegear (codegear.com/products/delphi/php) has recently released an IDE which is setup more as a Visual IDE. I have not yet had an opportunity to completley review it, but it appears as though it can outperform all the other IDE's in terms of getting a project to market faster.

And that compares to VS2008?

I think not

I have visual studio 2008 and I was trying to write a simple program in C# to cause a million popups to pop up (to unleash upon unsuspecting friends and family!). I had to fight the language in order to accomplish this. I can imagine developing in ASP.NET to be the same way, if you wanted to do something in a special way. Microsoft tries to force you into doing things their way, with PHP you have unlimited freedom.

However, Visual Studio is pretty amazing, I will give it that. There is no other IDE that compares. But it does take the programming out of programming in a lot of respects, and the main reason I program is to write elegant code and have fun with it.

I prefer using PHP to solve the "Web Problem". If we were still in the PHP4 days I might look at ASP.NET, but as it stands PHP has become a lot more powerful recently. For a large, commercial site, I would skip to probably Java.

PHP has a bad rep, and still needs to overcome its past. I think when PHP 6 is released we will see another huge milestone for the PHP language.

So, in my eyes, it's Java for super large scale sites and PHP for everything in between.

Eviltechie,
I work every day with ASP.NET, C# exactly. I can confirm or assure you that .net
is a lot faster than PHP. A lot lot more. PHP doesn't stand a change here. But still
and PHP is really fast compared to other languages.


As far as speed goes, what do you base your claim on? Are you saying PHP is equal to ASP.Net, or that it exceeds it?

#1 - VERY IMPORTANT

ASP.NET is not a language, it's a technology. You cannot compare PHP to ASP.NET directly. You should compare it to VB.NET and C#. ASP.NET IS A FREE TECHNOLOGY!

#2

Before you can pick which language to use you need to answer these questions:

1) Am I going to develop the application myself or will hire someone to do it? If you plan to outsource this development now or in the future you need to compare the cost of development. Net development will cost you more.

2) What IDE will I use for development. If you choose to use .Net you can go with Express environment which is free or Visual Studio Professional. It all depends what features you need. You can get Visual Studio for free if you are a student. See details below.

3) Will I host my website on shared server, VPS, or dedicated server? Will I use MYSQL, MS SQL EXPRESS, OR SQL SERVER STANDART/ENTERPRISE, etc.

#3 - FUTURE CAREER

If you plan to use your knowledge in Corporate America - go with ASP.NET. You will not find good PHP developer position in US.

#4- FREE VISUAL STUDIO PROFESSIONAL

Follow this link if you are a student

https://downloads.channel8.msdn.com/Products.aspx

Hope this helps.

null

In my eyes, opinions without any reasoning whatsoever behind them don't hold much water.


Well then, how do you know there is no reasoning behind my opinion?
And since when does an opinion has to have a reason?
For the fun of it, I can say the same thing about your own sentence above,
IMO opinions of opinions without whatsoever reasoning behind them don't hold much water.



It is possible to write a high-quality, secure PHP site...but not as fast and easy as it is to write a high-quality, secure ASP.Net site.
Can you back this up? Is this the reason PHP is more widely used - Because it takes longer and it is harder?
Come on, in no time you can produce a high-quality secure PHP site, you can learn from the thousands open source projects, tutorials and blogs about PHP - efficiency and security.
What about the fact that ASP.NET requires you to run IIS, and IIS is known for vulnerabilities (at-least in the past)?


As far as speed goes, what do you base your claim on? Are you saying PHP is equal to ASP.Net, or that it exceeds it?

I claim PHP is not slower than ASP.net, if you can prove otherwise - I will stand corrected.

Id suggest that the fact PHP runs twice as fast when its run using Phalanger (http://www.php-compiler.net/doku.php) on ASP.NET speaks volumes

http://www.marketing-ninja.com/?p=150

So if PHP runs twice as quick or at least quicker when complied as MSIL and run on ASP.NET it stands to reason as a platform ASP.NET is quicker.

Id suggest that the fact PHP runs twice as fast when its run using Phalanger (http://www.php-compiler.net/doku.php) on ASP.NET speaks volumes

http://www.marketing-ninja.com/?p=150

So if PHP runs twice as quick or at least quicker when complied as MSIL and run on ASP.NET it stands to reason as a platform ASP.NET is quicker.

Nice :)
But did you delve deeper?

The benchmark was done on Windows XP w/IIS & PHP was not running any opcode cacher. Is this a really good comparison?

Besides, it is obvious that compiled PHP will be faster than interpreted PHP.
See http://www.caucho.com/resin/doc/quercus.xtp PHP implementation in JAVA - claims to be 4x faster than mod_php.

So the conclusion is - it depends, on what OS you run it, with what tools, etc'.

Yer most PHP is interpreted, so you can hardly claim that php as a whole is quicker.

Well then, how do you know there is no reasoning behind my opinion?

There may be a reason, but you certainly didn't share it with us...which would be required for anyone to take your opinion seriously.


Can you back this up? Is this the reason PHP is more widely used - Because it takes longer and it is harder?
Come on, in no time you can produce a high-quality secure PHP site, you can learn from the thousands open source projects, tutorials and blogs about PHP - efficiency and security.
What about the fact that ASP.NET requires you to run IIS, and IIS is known for vulnerabilities (at-least in the past)?

PHP is more widely used because it runs on cheaper operating systems and is easy to learn and understand (being an interpreted scripting language and having tons of tutorials online).

With all the vulnerabilities found in popular open source software, I wouldn't say it is the best example of secure code. Good for learning, yes. But you still have to know how to secure an app. With ASP.Net it often requires manually overriding the standards to introduce security issues. I would be interested in seeing the example apps which have high-quality, secure PHP code that were written in "no time" though.

II6 is highly secure. You can check Secunia to verify that.

II6 is highly secure. You can check Secunia to verify that.
Surely you calculated in the amount of users vs. vulnerabilities found? Otherwise you can't accurately tell how secure something is.

With ASP.Net it often requires manually overriding the standards to introduce security issues. I would be interested in seeing the example apps which have high-quality, secure PHP code that were written in "no time" though.

Frameworks, frameworks, frameworks!

I've been saying it all along :cool:

I would be interested in seeing the example apps which have high-quality, secure PHP code that were written in "no time" though.


This I say from my own experience as a PHP developer.

When I finish my current project, I will be sure to contact you to see if you can find security vulnerabilities in my code :)

It would have been easier to suggest if details of the site could be known. However generally I would have gone for php5/mysql.

well, this was a good 5 pages of read.

As far as details go:

-Expedia Style site
-Price quotes
-Pre-pay system with inventory management
-VoIP communication
-Pictures, Comment system
-Specials, etc.

why notbody mentioned cakephp.org framework, it's an amazing PHP framework based on MVC architecture and not only makes web development so fast and gives u MVC code but your application will be more secure.

cakephp is very small framework but really amazing, code is very organized and you really don't need to do much, run the bake command and %50 of the application is done, you just need to learn how to structure your database and the framework will do the rest, i'm a DBE amputee, this mean double below elbow amputee, no hands, so i'm very slow on typing and i decided few days ago at night to develop a tasks management system to make things more organized in my business, it took me an hour or lets say less than two hours to complete the application using cakphp and the next morning my employees were surprised with the new system.

onething else to say, you guys keep saying .net for large sites??
facebook is PHP by theway, i think youtube as well.

good luck

I would go for PHP5, it is secure (with a good coder, but the same applies to ASP/ASP.net). PHP4 is EOL somewhere this year (so you would have to upgrade soon).

PHP5 with MySQL5 can be really safe (a good coder is required), also make sure you use a linux or unix server if you want PHP.