Here's my story with what happened.

One year ago on April 2nd, 2007 I ordered a ventrilo server from NationVoice. I was pretty satisfied with the services and how quick the server was setup. Well, a year passed and I completely forgot about the subscription that was setup on my PayPal account. I wasn't using the server anymore and I wanted the account to just run out. So the subscription paid NationVoice yesterday(April 3rd, 2008) for another year without warning. I didn't like the fact that NationVoice doesn't even give you any notice ahead of time that your payment will be due soon.

I tried talking to them through their ticket system asking for the server to be immediately cancelled and to send me a refund. They completely refused.

They tried to also feed me some BS saying, "PayPal will not allow the refund of these funds" even though in an earlier ticket they said, "Now, once your old subscriptions are closed you may submit a new support ticket listing any transaction ID # you have in question within the last 60 days. Per Paypal's TOS we may only review and refund payments made within 60 days."
PayPal is in no way limiting them.

Was it my mistake to allow the subscription to stay active? Yes, I will admit that it was my mistake. But, you would think a company like NationVoice would have a little common decency to send me a refund.

So if you're looking for a Ventrilo server, look somewhere else.

Taken from their Terms of Service:

PayPal Subscription Cancellations:

Clients acknowledge that if they cancel their Pay Pal subscription without requesting a cancellation, services will be immediately terminated. If a client has requested a cancellation of service, it is their responsibility for them to terminate the subscription. No refund will be issued to clients who fail to cancel their subscription.

Yes, I would agree it is their responsibility to pre-inform you of any impending charges and allow you time to cancel.

Exactly.

Also, why would they lie in their first ticket saying they review and refund payments made within the last 60 days when just saying that violates their own TOS?

I know this is going to sound like trolling since we are a competitor but this is just bad business ethics. If you're not using the service and haven't been using the service then by all means a refund is in order. TOS or not, don't be greedy. It will only sink you in the end.

Moved to the appropriate forum area.

They got angry today and decided to close my account with no refund.

They got angry today and decided to close my account with no refund.

How did you make payment? If you didn't receive service for funds you have paid, open a chargeback against them. Credit Card or PayPal, you deserve your money.

It was through PayPal. I originally talked to PayPal before the account was closed and they couldn't do anything at the time. I talked to them again today and they said they will be reversing the payment since the account is closed.

I have just had a similar experience. I was suspended on 2/1 from failure to pay. I emailed them before hand to let them know that the subscription payment will not go through since the funds were not in paypal yet. without a email or answer back they shut off my service and charge me another $25 to reactivate. I paid it and got it reactivated the next day. This happened again on 3/1. I emailed them and tried to work out payment. I got it payed and turned on. On 3/10 My subscription to Nation voice went through. Why was I charged again? So i had to email nation voice again and walk them through there bogus billing system. I finally got this money refunded to me and on 4/5 two subscriptions went through for 84.95 each With no prior invoice email that they usually send out to let you know a bill is coming up. I tried emailing them and submitting support tickets to have this resolved since I was trying to not renew my service with them so I could change companies. After i cancelled one of the 2 subscriptions Nation Voice has a fit and terminates my account. I submit a paypal dispute to try to get 1 of the charges refunded. When i try to talk to Nation Voice all I get is TOS nonsense. For a company like Nation Voice it is very surprising how poor they run things. My advice to you is find a company with business ethics and morals.

I don't have experience as a customer of nationvoice but we contracted Daniel who's one of the partners to code a complete control panel from scratch to our specs for our ventrilo reseller program and received a modified version of a free panel original called vpanel that was full of bugs and broken code.

Emails etc to Daniel have all been ignored and too much time has passed for paypal to get involved so basically we're out $2k and have nothing to show for it but a very expensive pile of busted code..

I generally keep personal dealings out of public venues like this but it's becoming obvious this is an ongoing issue with this company which should be brought to peoples attention whether customers or business to business dealings buyer beware.

It may be just me, but I've been hearing more and more issues about Nationvoice lately.

Rich: I cannot believe that happened. Is there *nothing* you can do at this point, or have to chalk it up as a loss for good?

No worries Brian, With that kind of leadership at nationvoice they won't be around long enough to collect anything from. Hope it was worth it..

Has been 1 week and they have yet to refund my money. Nation Voice ftl

Wow!!! i can't believe what i am reading. when i had my game servers company, we were offering ventrilo servers through nationvoice. they suspendend my acccount ounce because theyr paypal ipn was screwed up and didnt mark my payment as received.


They charged me 25$ to reactivate the service even tho it wasnt my fault!

then 2 months later. All my servers in Toronto dissapeared from the list. They took 3 days to fix this issue, assigned us new ip adresses and deleted all those toronto servers. This company is a real mess!


and on top of it, when i started complaining about it, one of theyr techs on irc, started insulting me and telling me that nationvoces dont need frenchies like me!

and forget about complaining to Flagship, im pretty sur they dont give a hoot since nationvoice has tons of slot !

just my 2 cents

NationVoice has been doing bad business ethics for years, their support is horrible and their coding is too. I used to monitor them closely and everything. I was a complete gamer back in the days and all the gamers think nationvoice is good as long as they get their server up without any problems, which most due, but if it were to be webhosting, they would have been gone a long time ago.

and forget about complaining to Flagship, im pretty sur they dont give a hoot since nationvoice has tons of slot !


Flagship does care -- and if enough complaints are lodged about any host, I am certain that they would look into it. There are also the forums at Ventrilo.com.

O Come on. I am surprised by the bright people in this thread not stating the obvious.

How exactly does a company know "that you don't use it anymore"? This is the OP's fault for not canceling properly. He managed to sign up just fine and used the service but he neglects to follow the process to cancel and thats ok?

Rich I know you run a tight ship but if I sign up with a recurring billed service and you actually charge my paypal or credit card, I can come back to you 2 weeks later and say "whoa man I didn't mean to keep that so give me the refund stat!"? I suspect that out of good customer service you may refund it but are you obligated to?

I don't think so.

O Come on. I am surprised by the bright people in this thread not stating the obvious.

How exactly does a company know "that you don't use it anymore"? This is the OP's fault for not canceling properly. He managed to sign up just fine and used the service but he neglects to follow the process to cancel and thats ok?

Rich I know you run a tight ship but if I sign up with a recurring billed service and you actually charge my paypal or credit card, I can come back to you 2 weeks later and say "whoa man I didn't mean to keep that so give me the refund stat!"? I suspect that out of good customer service you may refund it but are you obligated to?

I don't think so.

As for the OP's case, you are right that it was his fault for not cancelling properly. But for the other cases brought up in this thread, there is absolutely no excuse for nationvoice. Especially basically stealing 2 grand from Rich and just giving him a pile of garbage, that is ridiculous.

As for the OP's case, you are right that it was his fault for not cancelling properly. But for the other cases brought up in this thread, there is absolutely no excuse for nationvoice. Especially basically stealing 2 grand from Rich and just giving him a pile of garbage, that is ridiculous.

-edited-... don't want to talk trash :)

As for the OP's case, you are right that it was his fault for not cancelling properly. But for the other cases brought up in this thread, there is absolutely no excuse for nationvoice. Especially basically stealing 2 grand from Rich and just giving him a pile of garbage, that is ridiculous.

No I agree totally with that. I am surprised they would even try that.

O Come on. I am surprised by the bright people in this thread not stating the obvious.

How exactly does a company know "that you don't use it anymore"? This is the OP's fault for not canceling properly. He managed to sign up just fine and used the service but he neglects to follow the process to cancel and thats ok?

Rich I know you run a tight ship but if I sign up with a recurring billed service and you actually charge my paypal or credit card, I can come back to you 2 weeks later and say "whoa man I didn't mean to keep that so give me the refund stat!"? I suspect that out of good customer service you may refund it but are you obligated to?

I don't think so.

I agree 100% with your comments. We on occasion get the same type of emails from customers which cannot be avoided and deal with them as any 'honest' business would but I think there's a bigger picture here that needs to be addressed.

O Come on. I am surprised by the bright people in this thread not stating the obvious.

How exactly does a company know "that you don't use it anymore"? This is the OP's fault for not canceling properly. He managed to sign up just fine and used the service but he neglects to follow the process to cancel and thats ok?

Rich I know you run a tight ship but if I sign up with a recurring billed service and you actually charge my paypal or credit card, I can come back to you 2 weeks later and say "whoa man I didn't mean to keep that so give me the refund stat!"? I suspect that out of good customer service you may refund it but are you obligated to?

I don't think so.

We do...

If you ask me, if they're unwilling to provide a refund then they're likely unable. Not enough money floating around? Bad business plan? You decide.

Every company has a right to follow their terms of service, and enforce it when necessary.

That being said -- enforcing it isn't necessarily the right thing to do all the time, but working with the client and attempting to come to some kind of compromise that benefits both parties when situations arise, is. :)

Well i had two subscriptions go off the same day. Dont even remember having two subscriptions. When i try to contact nation voice about a refund on one of the subscriptions since i only have 1 service with them i get no reply. How convenient for them.

We do...

If you ask me, if they're unwilling to provide a refund then they're likely unable. Not enough money floating around? Bad business plan? You decide.

You honestly cannot believe that just because they don't issue a refund that they don't have enough money to. Seriously. The rest of the issues with Defcon IS a problem and that doesn't look good for them but the OP's issue taken at face value I don't disagree with them.

Well i had two subscriptions go off the same day. Dont even remember having two subscriptions. When i try to contact nation voice about a refund on one of the subscriptions since i only have 1 service with them i get no reply. How convenient for them.

This can sometimes happen if you use PayPal and choose Subscribe instead of Pay. It's happened before, and unless services were rendered for that extra subscription -- it definitely should get refunded.

The month before they shut my service off and charged me another $25 to get it turned on again then 2 days later my subscription i normally had goes off on the tenth and i contact them and it was hard to get the 84.95 + 25 they charged me before my subscription date. Yes i am only getting a 300 slot vent resell from them. 2 subscription went off back to back and i don't see how i would make two subscription back to back and not see any new service. hmmm

The month before they shut my service off and charged me another $25 to get it turned on again then 2 days later my subscription i normally had goes off on the tenth and i contact them and it was hard to get the 84.95 + 25 they charged me before my subscription date. Yes i am only getting a 300 slot vent resell from them. 2 subscription went off back to back and i don't see how i would make two subscription back to back and not see any new service. hmmm

PayPal subscriptions have to be created from the customer's side. That's not to say you were not misled though.

Apparently Nationvoice knows about this thread. John one of the owners sent me an email last night basically saying "I understand and it's unfortunate but it has nothing to do with nationvoice since the funds went to Daniel and not the company".

Typical damage control response by a company that's used to bad press. Apparently there's more the one bad egg over there..

FYI. Payment for the panel was sent to @nationvoice.com

AFAIK, Daniel has his own Paypal account separate from the payment paypal.

AFAIK, Daniel has his own Paypal account separate from the payment paypal.

I suppose he uses that one to scam people?

I suppose he uses that one to scam people?

lol, looks like we're not so crazy after-all :D