Hello,

We dont know whether this is the right section to post a thread, But since this is a programming section i think i will get some info here.Does any one know a outsource consultant Nathaniel Freeman? He has got the work done and has not paid us invoice of $1500 as of yet.We had tried to contact him through emails because we have not seen him online since the files for the work done was transfered to him after he said he would upload them from his end and then send us the payment.After that he has replied to an email saying that stop sending emails as the work was not done on time and he was not going to pay and if we send him the next email he will be posting some bad reviews about us.

Anyone there who can guide us if we can take some action on him taking help of UK laws.

Any help is appreciated.

Payment should always come beofre recipt

Developing a good relationship has been our main focus, We think he has gone through this post, Now he has threatened us to remove the post orelse according to him, he will post some bad feedbacks for us everywhere.

Lol. Bad feedback about being a "bad" client?
If he is near you pay him a visit.

Lol. Bad feedback about being a "bad" client?
If he is near you pay him a visit.

Thanks Steve, But we are in india and he is in UK.Will have to spend more than what he has to pay us :)

Get legal advice on your options available to you from a lawyer. ;)

Though I'm not a lawyer, if you can prove he owes you the money there are several ways you could get it from him; for example a collections agency or similar.

Hope that helps,

I think that the feedback in this thread has been good so far, there are few items that you should consider in the future.

Always have a legal agreement, signed, and in-place before you begin any work. A good contract would contain sections for:


scope of services
price and payment
term and termination
ownership of intellectual property
confidential information
warranty and disclaimer
limitation of remedies
limitation of liability
relation of parties
employee solicitation
non-assignment
arbitration
attorney's fees
severability
force majeure
no waiver
entire agreement


You then include an Exhibit which contains an outlay of the work being performed, payment requirements, etc. As someone writes above, payment (at least partial) should come before you submit the totality of your work... or Zend encode it with an expiry timer if you want the client to get a "try before you pay" sort of period. Ensure that your Exhibit list is always in concordance with your initial agreement.

Without the above, you have very little recourse. A signed document describing the work, terms of payment, and deliverables is the only "take-to-court" type of documentation I would be comfortable with personally. Anything else is circumstantial, can be falsified, etc. He can just say "I never asked him for this, nor did we agree to any payment scheme" -- and there goes your time. I can send you an invoice right now, doesn't mean you have to pay it, or should...(sure hope you wouldn't! Otherwise, can send me a PM :) )

Perhaps Nathaniel's email has been hijacked? Have a telephone number? Don't start posting libel or personal information in forums though, or you could be the one finding yourself at the short end of a lawsuit, notwithstanding what you feel the circumstances may be. These are private matters and should be dealt with accordingly. I do believe that posting his name in this thread was bad taste.

Do communicate with a lawyer though.. I'm no lawyer myself, just have been through the ropes for over a decade now -- but the above is general advice that should save you in the future. Someone will be much more careful if they are rescinding on a legal agreement with their threats.

Good luck!
Alex

Thanks Alex and Dark light ( :) as i dont know your name) but will surely keep in mind of your advice and work accordingly.We do have all his chat logs and emails stored.

giving a new client the files before being paid is not developing good relationship with the client! In all cases why would u want to develop a good relation with a bad client! I think first projects should be done without thinking of a good relationship with the client then when u both trust each other a good relationship will take place all alone

Sell your ''debt'' to a debt collection agency in the UK.

Sell your ''debt'' to a debt collection agency in the UK.

Thanks CoderBird & feomateo. But feomateo how do we get his address? and CodeBird this may seem stupidity of ours but we did his work first time for $700 ans he did not pay us saying that he was waiting for the payments from the client.Second time new project deal was fixed with $1500 where he sent 1k in advance and now still have to pay $500.

Hello,

I thought I would post here since this guy is talking about me, I will be brief and factual unlike he has been.

I passed two clients onto this company and should have learnt from the first one. These clients were passed on because I was working approximatly 65-70 hours a week and had no time to take on these clients but they were friends so I did not want to let them down.

First client
Simple website design to be put into code and have the ecommerce system built all from scratch without using current systems on the market.

I was told it would take 20 days from start to completion so I paid the agreed up front cost and it was not event 1/2 built in 20 days, the design was broken and out of place, the eccomerce back end system was stolen from another piece of software and when I queried this Navinder (the owner) said he would investigate, I was then told that it had been written from scratch.

I waited longer for them to complete (up to around a month and a half) and it was still not completed so I said forget it because they hadn't met the verbal contract that we had agreed upon which I think was fair.

Second Client
I passed on this second client approximatly 2 weeks into the first client's contract in good faith as they said they had lots of developers free to work.

I paid the up front amount that was requested, and as with the first project work ground to a halt, nothing seemed to work, design was broken and every time I reported these issues I was told they would be fixed by the next day, which they were not.

6 months after starting the contract (they stated it would be one month to completion) the site was bearly 1/2 built so I said I did not wish them to continue any further as it was not worth it anymore.

Conclusion
At the end of the day I refuse to work with this company any further, the little work they have done I believe they have adaquate payment for, I refused to pay any more money until I saw some progress and I was told multiple times that "they have lots to upload and are waiting for payment" although they would not prove this with even screenshots.

So I am ready and willing to proove all of this in court, I have full records and I do not like people talking bad about me when I have done nothing wrong. If Hostechsupport had done the work I would have abided by my contract and I have abided by my contract with previous companies and clients and have a good reputation with my clients.

Thank you for hearing my view, I do not want to get into a petty arguement just put my view and facts across.

Nathaniel Freeman
So at the end of the day

1:First of all about the "eccomerce back end system" you are talking, Owner has already proved to you that it was unique and not stolen.After falling on face you escaped and tried to avoid that reason.

2: When second project was completed and team was waiting for final changes you were repeatedly asked about any changes if you had like to be done.Follwing are some of the logs which proves who was delaying things:

[19:22] CEO: hello
[19:32] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: Hello
[19:32] CEO: how are you?
[19:33] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I'm fine, just very busy today with work. How can I help though
[19:33] CEO: have you been able to send the information my guys needed
[19:34] CEO: as they have other projects starting very soon
[19:35] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I haven't unfortunatly, but I will hopefully this weekend as I have some time off. I am still waiting for your guys to update the layout so that it actully mathes the design in some way. I am also waiting on the payment from the client.
[19:36] CEO: ok
Session Close (Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Fri Oct 12 23:47:28 2007


Session Start (navinder@hostechsupport.com:Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Mon Oct 15 23:51:50 2007
[23:51] CEO: Hi
[23:52] CEO: did you get email from development?
Session Close (Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Mon Oct 15 23:52:14 2007


Session Start (navinder@hostechsupport.com:Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Mon Oct 15 23:53:11 2007
[23:53] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: Hello, yes I did. I have forwarded it onto the client for reviewing. I may also have another project to throw your companies way however I need to create a list of what's needed first
[23:53] CEO: ok not a problem
[23:53] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: It would probably be around $600 woth
[23:54] CEO: i just wanted to confirm whether you got the email or else i was going to srew them all tommorow
[00:05] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: nope got it
[00:06] CEO: thank you
Session Close (Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Tue Oct 16 00:09:36 2007

3: He says that both the projects we were working on were his friends so why does he states them as his clients when it use to come on payments:

Session Start (navinder@hostechsupport.com:Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Wed Oct 24 16:54:44 2007
[16:54] CEO: Hello
[16:54] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: hello
[16:55] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I have now received an e-mail and will work to get the spec to them, as it wasn't attached
[16:56] CEO: the attachment you sent is a resume of someone lol
[17:01] CEO: can you send me project details
[17:02] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I will once I can get them back, as I explained yesterday they were lost in a hard drive failure hence why I was hoping for a copy back from what I sent but obviously I sent the wrong file
[17:04] CEO: ok not a problem
[17:04] CEO: also please follow up the client who has to pay as i am too in need of money
[17:04] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I am aware of that and I am following him up on it as it needs to be finished. I also need to gain access to a part of the code at some point to check it for copyrighted code
[17:05] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: also a checklist needs to be created by the client to make sure nothing is missing
[17:05] CEO: hrm....
Session Close (Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Wed Oct 24 17:19:52 2007


Session Start (navinder@hostechsupport.com:Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Wed Oct 31 19:44:03 2007
[19:44] CEO: hey whats up?
[19:44] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: Hello, nothing at the second i'm waiting to hear back from clients etc
[19:44] CEO: :-( it has been a long wait bro
[19:45] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: I understand that however I have also e-mailed your development team asking for an admin login so that the client can test the script and point out what has been missed etc
[19:46] Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!: for which I am still waiting on, basically the client wants to make sure everything is there before releasing payment
[19:47] *** hostech_web@hotmail.com (Host) has joined the conversation.
Session Close (Nathaniel - Ryan is weird!): Wed Oct 31 19:47:17 2007

Now if the projects were of your freinds then why he says that they were his clients? The chat itself shows that many time info was requested and have more logs for the information requested for many times.If we were that bad in our work why did he give us the second project? Apart from that you will see that he has mentioned about 3rd project here which he was suppose to assign us, not only this but many more in other chat logs.

We can present each and every day logs of chat you had with team and the owner which is enough to prove that who delayed the project completeion and who did not pay us for the work.Apart from this you threatened us that if we did not give you files you will spoil our name in WHT and everywhere.But any one whom you assign the job will work on upfront payment where as we did not wait for you to make payment and proceeded with our work but when all was done you did not get payments from your client and that is the reason you did not pay us and just tried to get files from us so that you can get some money from client for yourself.



Rest we too dont want to get into arugments and waiste our time as we know you dont have any price to pay, Those who really want to see our results with client list and feedback they can visit bidding sites like GAF and check our ratings there.

I'm sorry if I refer to every client as a client, I believe that is professional, you do not need to know whether they are my friends or not this is none of your business.

The second project I gave you very early on before I knew about the issues I would have with you.

I also like to note how you have selected which chat's to put up here, if you wish to have my full address to start a case feel free I will happily see you in court where you can attempt to prove your lies.

I did not threaten you that I would ruin your name if you didn't give me the files, i'm sorry but you wouldn't have given me the files if I had said this, no one would so yet another lie.

For now I suggest this subject is ended and if you wish to continue you talk to me via e-mail (which you are not blocked on) or via a laywer.

Thanks.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/archive/index.php/t-614056.html

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?u=169270

http://webwhois.nic.uk/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=kousei.co.uk&WHOIS+Submit.x=41&WHOIS+Submit.y=11

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1257/5078.php

http://webwhois.nic.uk/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=volmasoft.co.uk&WHOIS+Submit.x=28&WHOIS+Submit.y=11

http://www.volmasoft.co.uk/

Hi Grandad, he should have my full address already anyway I believe I have provided it before.

As for linking Kousei's profile to him and the website I don't think that will help as I am not linked to that person(s)

Thanks,
Nathaniel Freeman

As for linking Kousei's profile to him and the website I don't think that will help as I am not linked to that person(s)

Thanks,
Nathaniel Freeman

Really? I wonder!

Can I ask what evidence you have? I believe you would have 0. Unless due to him living in the UK we are the same person.

Please do not accuse me of being someone else unless you have evidence to prove this, you may also contact the WHT admins as they would investigate as the other account is banned.

Accusations? Evidence? Aren't you getting a bit defensive?

Well of course I am when people throw false accusations at me ?

How are you linking Kousei to this?

Something I spotted but possibly erroneously so I'll retract any suggestion of similarity at this time.