Im so mad right now, just got notice of over 2k worth of charge back from some guy who just dissappears. He just decides he doesnt want to pay for the last 3 months.

Anyways did we ever decide or do a large database for everyone to submit their deadbeat hosters too? So no one else has to put up with this crap?

If not, if theres a intrest, ill be more then happy to provide programming and hosting resources to make this happen.

let me know...

Some people...

Not only will he dissappear and youll have to suspend his account but he will also charge back every thing he has ever paid to you.

Charles,
Can't you fight this with your merchant provider? They should go to bat for you if this was an illegally issued chargeback. I know that this will be a hassle, but I think that 2K is worth it.

-Steven

Oh yes ill be giving all the info to the credit card company per our usual policys as well as sending his account to our collection agency which will result in negative credit on his credit history as well as forwarding his account to our lawyers where more then likely a lawsuit will be brough up against mr malone.

As far as presenting evidence to the credit card companys, the sad fact is 99% of the time credit card companys side with their card holders no matter what proof you provide.

In our experience, a simple signature authorising the charges is enough to get the charge back reversed!

Go to his house with a baseball bat ;)

Signature doesnt mean anything when your talking about providing a service.

Anyways this thread isnt about credit card companys its about whether or not theres a intrest in a central fraud database for the hosting industry?

Charles, We're working on something like this as well as something that allows customers to report problems with another hosting company and we help them solve the issue.. There will be also a database like this that will allow users to submit this kind of info and display on a page to make sure people know who to not do business with. Something that will be a very helpful. Get in contact :).

Thats nice tim but i was asking if people would have a interest not looking for advertisements...

Charles -- yes, I would be interested in a deadbeat database. I just worry that a large percentage of deadbeats wouldn't use legit info when signing up, rendering such a database useless...

Originally posted by cbaker17
Thats nice tim but i was asking if people would have a interest not looking for advertisements...

I was just letting you know that we're doing it and there is already an interest.:)

Wow Timmy, i'm sure you'd be at the top of your own database considering the stunts you pulled with all of those cpanel customers.

Originally posted by DanielP
Wow Timmy, i'm sure you'd be at the top of your own database considering the stunts you pulled with all of those cpanel customers.

:D :stickout :D

Charles, maybe you should try to see if you can get the money back.

WOW!

Charles, I hope you guys get the money back.

Originally posted by DanielP
Wow Timmy, i'm sure you'd be at the top of your own database considering the stunts you pulled with all of those cpanel customers.

I was just waiting for someone to say that. 24 minutes not bad daniel. ;)

Back on topic, Charles, what about the legality of this type of database?

-Steven

what about the legality of this type of database?

agree - we have often thought what a great idea this would be but not sure if the lawsuits would start dropping through our letterbox.

That aside we would love to see something like this

Originally posted by cbaker17
Anyways did we ever decide or do a large database for everyone to submit their deadbeat hosters too? So no one else has to put up with this crap?

This sort of thing is only useful if it is widely used. Recent attempts to contact www.hostabuse.com to ask if they are going to get in behind their service and make it work have failed (I worded it nicer than that). We actually have access, but I wonder if we're only ever going to find our own entries in there. :)

So perhaps you could try and contact them Charles and see if they are willing to part with their database to give you something to start with, and build on.

Cheers

Gary

I think maybe the best thing to do would be to setup a member only type forum that all members need to be verified and that might cut down on alot of the rubbish that might pop upif this were a public type thing. I would be more than happy to get a domain and host the forums but that is about all I can do as I lack any programming knowledge.. But I think this might be a big help to us as alot of these "problem" customers come to WHT pull this **** and then just come back and pick another host out of the hat.. and while sometimes people do post about these customers they are scattered all over the place.

We'd be interested in the database. I think the verified membership idea is the only way to go.

BTW: We're in Ann Arbor, MI. Want some pictures of his place, his car, him? :)

hehe bit serve, yes please send guido after that dead beat. I dont see how i could get into trouble for running the database, if i put some kind of a statement up. I dont know. Or are you guys familiar with that company that large store runs your checks through when you try to pay with a check, it either declined you or accepts your check and then your giving a piece of paper on how to contact the company to findout why you were declined. SO what im getting at is maybe a system where its not viewable, but you punch in a customers information and it eather gives you a decline or accept.

I dont know really, all i know is im tired of these people who think they can steal...

I would be interested and can also provide programming(php) services.

Originally posted by cbaker17
what im getting at is maybe a system where its not viewable, but you punch in a customers information and it eather gives you a decline or accept

That is also how hostabuse.com is structured. There isn't a list of defaulters. You can add an entry, and you can query the database (either at the site, or remotely within your own signup script).

Regards

Gary

Originally posted by DanielP
Wow Timmy, i'm sure you'd be at the top of your own database considering the stunts you pulled with all of those cpanel customers.

What happened???:D(PM Me)

-Chris

I can provide a smile
:D

Do you realise that you breached your privacy policy by posting his personal details?

If you sue, he has full right to counter sue.

Originally posted by cbaker17
Signature doesnt mean anything when your talking about providing a service.


actually charles, thats where your wrong. Every chargeback we have ever gotten, and had a signature for it, we have always gotten the money back, even a spam charge of $250.00 for 1 guy

If your merchant denies your claims in chargeback's if you show their sig, i suggest getting a new merchant company

u... there were blackhole lists that listed open relays and domains that spammed -got sued for listing a company and lost.....

Since when did i have a privacy policy?

:-D

If the customers can violate their contract (ie not pay or spam) then you can violate your privacy policy :)

or simply say we dont give out "customers" information - once you cancel em, they are EX customers, not customers :)

yea we dont, i dont have nay qualms about releasing any information about a deadbeat ex customer, but you guys are so offended by me trying to keep the same thing from happening to you, ill just go ahead and delete their information, dont come complaining when he does it to the next person.

Alaskan Wolf, i dont think it will be a problem collecting it were going to forgo the formalitys and just sue him...

Heh you dont want to get on my bad side...

Ill keep you updated, just to put it into perspective not only did he charge back 2000.00 he also has past due a 1000.00 whcih brings it to 3000.00 and his contracts not up so were talking over 5000.00, hehe im going on vacation to MI :)

It really has nothing to do with the amount its the fact that he blantantly had a intent to defraud us, it is a misunderstanding, it isnt because he ran out of money, he just had a plan to screw us over :) Now its my turn :)

Best of luck to you, Charles!

I want pictures of whats left of him after you get there :-D
You can put them in your policy about collecting debts and show em to your clients :)

Originally posted by cbaker17
I dont see how i could get into trouble for running the database, if i put some kind of a statement up. The worry I'd have is that some information gets into your database that isn't accurate. You could draw a comparison to credit reporting agencies, but they just report the facts: the due dates and amounts, and payment dates or how late... it's up to individual subscribers to decide how to interpret that data -- and even when they convert it to a score. And the terms when you accept a credit account state that the credit provider is going to report your payment activity. So in addition to putting a statement on your fraud site, each host that uses it should probably state that they're going to do so in their TOS.

If I were hosting, I'd probably use such a database. But I'd probably hesitate to submit the info on any "deadbeats" to it. Getting sucked into one lawsuit could easily cost you more than you'd save by being a part of the thing (although at the level Charles is talking about, thousands of dollars, I'd probably be a little more willing to take the risk).

Are you trying for some musclemen?

Just to add an a slightly different view on this

If you just list domain names that have hosted with you but were charged back surely that can't be illegal?

If the database wasnt publicly viewable then who would it hurt? :)

All of our chargebacks have been caused by frauds who have managed to get card information AND addresses of that card holders.

We have a way of catching most of these but still a database listing "suspicious" domains would be good. No need to slander anyone just have it there for information then it can be up to the host whether to accept the order or not

Once a domain is blacklisted those fraudsters are going ot get bored to keep applying for new domain names(maybe)

Surely this can be no worse than open relay databases? :)

Robbie

I like the domain list ideal and that is not personal info so no legalities.

This doamin lsiting sounds good..

To the other that previously mentioned a signature..

How would you go about this??
Fax them a contract and have them sign and fax back?
Or a 1 line textbox on order form stating it is the same thing as signing a credit card reciept at counter?

What would you want a blacklisted domain to return?

I'm thinking, have a datbase of blacklisted domains...

Have a function people can add to their signup forms, that takes the domain in, and proccess it...


$abuser = checkAbuse($domain);

if ( $abuser == 1 ) {
//Flag here for abuse
}

Have 0 mean, either no abuse, or not in database, and maybe have a system of numbers...

Or would information be better? Like, who blacklisted, a reason, date, etc?

weve already created code with an api like this, ill post it or pm you shortly, watching simpsons now :)

http://hostabuse.elitehosts.com/how.html

Search for domain badcustomer.com (one i added)

I havent used this code for a few months (when i wrote it) but it works - there may be some bugs. If you are interested in continuing, let me know

I brought it up in thes forums before, but i dont think it went over well :)

Not a bad script...

What a time for me not to remember much perl :D

Use PHP :) or any other language... basically the How It works page describes it, you call a certain URL in your language and you are returned a "0|" or a "1|Comment here" and you can have your software flag orders with a "1"

Yeah I noticed...

Hmm...