I own this domain, cigaretteracing.net

cigaretteracing.com is a billion dollar power boat company.

I set it up as a hobby/adwords site listing all of the new and old cigarette racing boat models.

The boat company owner called me and told me I had 24 hours to shut it off or he would sue me.

I've run it for about 2-3 years just to play in because I take pictures for a boat dealership, so I had quite a bit of these photos to begin with.

So now is the domain name worth anything? What should I do? I don't want a lawsuit!

As with many issues of this type, the best thing to do is consult a lawyer. WHT is not a place for them so I suggest you contact a local one that works with theese types of issues.

-Jim

I would suggest contacting a domain lawyer like John Berryhill...

http://www.johnberryhill.com/

Has your site been around longer than the company? If so, it's prior art and they can't do much.

Unless you're trying to profit in any way from having the similar name, I doubt they can win in court.

John Berryhill
Ari Goldberger
Stevan Lieberman

some good domain lawyers you may wish to contact and consult with.

It looks like you have complied with their request since cigaretteracing.net no longer resolves.

If you still wish to continue using your old content, I'd suggest you find an alternative name less closely related. You might want to check that you are not infringing on their trademarks. Usually hobby/fan sites are safe provided it is a non-commercial site. But I'm not a lawyer, so you'd best consult a lawyer familiar with domains and trademarks. The three mentioned above are all good choices.

cigaretteracing.org still available... someone can apply

The boat company owner called me and told me I had 24 hours to shut it off or he would sue me.
Whenever people threaten to sue, do NOT communicate directly with them AGAIN. Wait for their COURT documents, and hire a lawyer THEN.

cigaretteracing.org is...

How much can I get on the open market for this domain name?
I've got quite a few by now. Losing this one doesn't matter so much.

I'd like to get some open market competition since the billionaire owner spoke to me as if I was a low-life crook. I bought the domain legally, and the site wasn't doing anything to hurt or compete with his business. Just show and describe past models, and display a modest amount of adwords.

He said he would pay me for it. But I had the impression, he was going to offer what it cost me to register the name. Not what the work and site was worth.

Is that what I should expect?

I won't have handed over the domain without asking for a decent compensation...

How much can I get on the open market for this domain name?
I've got quite a few by now. Losing this one doesn't matter so much.

I'd like to get some open market competition since the billionaire owner spoke to me as if I was a low-life crook. I bought the domain legally, and the site wasn't doing anything to hurt or compete with his business. Just show and describe past models, and display a modest amount of adwords.

He said he would pay me for it. But I had the impression, he was going to offer what it cost me to register the name. Not what the work and site was worth.

Is that what I should expect?
That's a question better asked to your lawyer. He'll be able to tell you for sure, once you give him information like how long you've owned and operated the domain, etc.

How much can I get on the open market for this domain name?
I've got quite a few by now. Losing this one doesn't matter so much.

I'd like to get some open market competition since the billionaire owner spoke to me as if I was a low-life crook. I bought the domain legally, and the site wasn't doing anything to hurt or compete with his business. Just show and describe past models, and display a modest amount of adwords.

He said he would pay me for it. But I had the impression, he was going to offer what it cost me to register the name. Not what the work and site was worth.

Is that what I should expect?

Yep. Unless you consult a lawyer.

Unless you are stealing any of the content from his site you are 110% legally allowed to own the domain.

He has no right to even say that to you.

What he has now done is threatened you.

Take him to court. You will win hands down!

There has been simular situations with people trying to bully people out of domains.

contact a lawyer, then sue him for half of that billion he owns.

]and display a modest amount of adwords

And there is the rub. It's a commercial website infringing on Cigarette Racing trademarks.

Unless you are stealing any of the content from his site you are 110% legally allowed to own the domain.

Incorrect.

Depending on what applicable law or policy the other party is referring to:

http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm

b. Evidence of Registration and Use in Bad Faith. For the purposes of Paragraph 4(a)(iii), the following circumstances, in particular but without limitation, if found by the Panel to be present, shall be evidence of the registration and use of a domain name in bad faith:

(i) circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name; or

(ii) you have registered the domain name in order to prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or

(iii) you have registered the domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or

(iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00001125----000-.html

(A) A person shall be liable in a civil action by the owner of a mark, including a personal name which is protected as a mark under this section, if, without regard to the goods or services of the parties, that person—
(i) has a bad faith intent to profit from that mark, including a personal name which is protected as a mark under this section; and
(ii) registers, traffics in, or uses a domain name that—
(I) in the case of a mark that is distinctive at the time of registration of the domain name, is identical or confusingly similar to that mark;
(II) in the case of a famous mark that is famous at the time of registration of the domain name, is identical or confusingly similar to or dilutive of that mark; or
(III) is a trademark, word, or name protected by reason of section 706 of title 18 or section 220506 of title 36.
(B)
(i) In determining whether a person has a bad faith intent described under subparagraph (A), a court may consider factors such as, but not limited to—
(I) the trademark or other intellectual property rights of the person, if any, in the domain name;
(II) the extent to which the domain name consists of the legal name of the person or a name that is otherwise commonly used to identify that person;
(III) the person’s prior use, if any, of the domain name in connection with the bona fide offering of any goods or services;
(IV) the person’s bona fide noncommercial or fair use of the mark in a site accessible under the domain name;
(V) the person’s intent to divert consumers from the mark owner’s online location to a site accessible under the domain name that could harm the goodwill represented by the mark, either for commercial gain or with the intent to tarnish or disparage the mark, by creating a likelihood of confusion as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of the site;
(VI) the person’s offer to transfer, sell, or otherwise assign the domain name to the mark owner or any third party for financial gain without having used, or having an intent to use, the domain name in the bona fide offering of any goods or services, or the person’s prior conduct indicating a pattern of such conduct;
(VII) the person’s provision of material and misleading false contact information when applying for the registration of the domain name, the person’s intentional failure to maintain accurate contact information, or the person’s prior conduct indicating a pattern of such conduct;
(VIII) the person’s registration or acquisition of multiple domain names which the person knows are identical or confusingly similar to marks of others that are distinctive at the time of registration of such domain names, or dilutive of famous marks of others that are famous at the time of registration of such domain names, without regard to the goods or services of the parties; and
(IX) the extent to which the mark incorporated in the person’s domain name registration is or is not distinctive and famous within the meaning of subsection (c)(1) of this section.

The keywords are "not limited to".

But yes, seek a lawyer, one versed in these things.

How much can I get on the open market for this domain name?
I've got quite a few by now. Losing this one doesn't matter so much.Do not sell it to someone else.
Just because you sold it doesn't mean your worries are over.
New owner will lose the domain.
You'll still be responsible whatever it may be.

I'd like to get some open market competition since the billionaire owner spoke to me as if I was a low-life crook. I bought the domain legally, and the site wasn't doing anything to hurt or compete with his business. Just show and describe past models, and display a modest amount of adwords.
Do not take his remark as personal.
Treat it as business. Never lose your cool ;)

There is no open market competition.
I also agree with stu2 regarding adsense on your site.
In the eye of the law, your site is commercial when you put adsense.


He said he would pay me for it. But I had the impression, he was going to offer what it cost me to register the name. Not what the work and site was worth.

Is that what I should expect?
How do you know how much he's going to pay for sure?
What ever you do, never mention # first.
As soon as you mention # first, you'll be marked as cybersquatter.
Let him offer first.

If you end up selling it to him, do NOT treat it as normal domain selling.
Get yourself "DOMAIN NAME SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE AGREEMENT"
which is specifically written for selling TM related domain name to TM owner. Have him sign this agreement first. This will protect you from buyer coming back at you later ;)

Unless you are stealing any of the content from his site you are 110% legally allowed to own the domain.

He has no right to even say that to you.

What he has now done is threatened you.

Take him to court. You will win hands down!

There has been simular situations with people trying to bully people out of domains.

contact a lawyer, then sue him for half of that billion he owns.

How dense are you? Have you never heard of trademark and/or copyright law?

Have you even read a single UDRP decision to know the criteria they use to determine if a domain is infringing?

The only correct thing you said is that it's time to talk to a lawyer.

As with many issues of this type, the best thing to do is consult a lawyer. WHT is not a place for them so I suggest you contact a local one that works with theese types of issues.

I agree, consult a lawyer. Oh and if the boat company owner calls you again and tries to make threats or be tough, tell him to go f* himself.

In the eye of the law, your site is commercial when you put adsense.


I'm pretty sure that when you can prove that the income from adsense is less than your cost (e.g. domain reg, hosting, even a moderate hourly rate for the time you infest in it) then the site will not be seen as commercial.

I'm pretty sure that when you can prove that the income from adsense is less than your cost (e.g. domain reg, hosting, even a moderate hourly rate for the time you infest in it) then the site will not be seen as commercial.

It's a loss-making commercial site

I won't have handed over the domain without asking for a decent compensation...

Asking for compensation is called "Cybersquatting". Now why would you do that? That would be just like owing up to the fact that you are in the wrong then turning around and selling it even if he asked to buy it. That would be a big negatory.

It is an interesting issue.

@Mikie4648: If it is found that he is NOT in the wrong owning and operating the domain name, but the company still want to take it offline, does it not seem fair that they pay for it?

It's a loss-making commercial site

Interesting new concept you have there :)

The point of about 99% web sites is to profit. Either you are enhancing your niche credibility, gaining networking contacts, offering services, or selling things outright. You gain something by sharing. But unlike Napster, you cannot profit from images and specs alone. I wasn't sure what I'd get out of this site.

I just realized people didn't have a central location to learn about used cigarette boat models. I had a client that sold these boats and photos I'd taken personally and collected. I thought by organizing them with the manufacturer's specs from web archives, that they don't publish any more, we'd have an refererence for these great boats.

I still don't see how this could hurt the manufacturer, which makes money selling parts for these used boats, and gains interest in their product, my client who sells used boats, and the people interested in fast boats - to compare and learn about the models. Since my business is the web, I could put adwords and dream of making something back for my work. Nobody loses.

If I had time and money to spend in court, I think I may have split hairs. I don't see anything here that I did wrong.


1. I don't cybersquat names - no history of this. My names are original (ex. ITinCT.com)

2. I wasn't competing with them.

3. The first words on my site were stating that I was not the company, that this was a hobby/reference. - It looks nothing like their site.

4. Cigaretteracing.net is not trademarked. Cigarette Racing Team is.


But being smart enough to see the value of education, and seeing that the guy who calls the shots doesn't see the value of this site, I'm going to play it safe and give the domain to them.

I think these responses have paid for the domain name in education alone.

Thanks everybody!

That is pretty rough, telling you that you have 24 hours or he would sue you. Well at least he is getting some bad publicity now which is what he deserves unless there is more to the story? Good luck with all this, I'm hearing a lot about these issues lately.

I had a domain once where it was trademark without me knowing, lawyers sent huge legal docs etc, it was not worth the trouble so I gave it to the lawyers. They must have been grateful and left the name servers pointing at my host. I have done quite well with that site too.

I'm going to play it safe and give the domain to them.
You basically give in to his threat. Not the smartest move, if you ask me. This will also set a bad precedent, and you could guess the guy will be bragging about this to everybody he meets in the next 12 months. :rolleyes:

That is pretty rough, telling you that you have 24 hours or he would sue you.
True. That is outright BULLYING, but seemingly it works here. Hmm ...

You're a big man westwoodstom. Having changed your obviously strong way of thinking based on the comments from your peers. IMHO, I think you have done the right thing giving Cigarette Racing your domain. You definitely don't want to get dragged into court for TM infringement with an opponent with deep packets. I think you'd also lose a UDRP/WIPO case, which wouldn't have cost you anything if you defended yourself. If they'd gone that route. Which would have probably been cheaper for them also, than a trademark lawsuit. But you never know what an opponent with deep pocks is going to do. They might want to punish you with damages.

FYI. Trademark infringement occurs when you make any kind money (big or small) by using the TM holder's trademark for commercial gain. This you were doing with your Adsense ads on a site which contained their trademark.

You could still continue this site under another domain just as long as you don't make any income from it, like Adsense.

Wait until Snowe Bill passed.
Anyone with domain name should pray this bill do NOT get passed!
www.SnoweBill.com

Incorrect.

Depending on what applicable law or policy the other party is referring to:

http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm



http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00001125----000-.html



The keywords are "not limited to".

But yes, seek a lawyer, one versed in these things.

How dense are you? Have you never heard of trademark and/or copyright law?

Have you even read a single UDRP decision to know the criteria they use to determine if a domain is infringing?

The only correct thing you said is that it's time to talk to a lawyer.


Listen dude! Dense? Have you ever been to court? or just read quotes from your friends?

before you BASH me, be able to go outside the box, not just go off of what you read on the internet.

And from what you are saying it would be considered Stealing Content... as I said in my first post.

Make sure you can understand legal jargen before you use it.

How dense are you? Have you never heard of trademark and/or copyright law?

Have you even read a single UDRP decision to know the criteria they use to determine if a domain is infringing?

The only correct thing you said is that it's time to talk to a lawyer.


Oh and... watch you don't get sued for using the word "pocket bike"

as if... dense...watch the reflection of the mirror doesn't burn your eyes!

Oh and... watch you don't get sued for using the word "pocket bike"

as if... dense...watch the reflection of the mirror doesn't burn your eyes!

Lawyer? Do you realize how much a lawyers going to cost him? They will want 5gran just to look at the case. Maybe the poster is not in the position to fork out that kind of money to begin with. Not only that, i dont know of any intellectual property lawyers who would do this on a contingency basis anyway.

Lawyer? Do you realize how much a lawyers going to cost him? They will want 5gran just to look at the case. Maybe the poster is not in the position to fork out that kind of money to begin with. Not only that, i dont know of any intellectual property lawyers who would do this on a contingency basis anyway.


lol, and you are quoting me because?

lol, and you are quoting me because?

The quote was my mistake. It was supposed to be a reply.

oh, ok :P

You know it's funny.....

It's a simple case of Domain Bullying, period.
Laws or no laws
(you can find laws for it and against it, really depends on the view)

Everyone can tell him to get a lawyer or give the domain because your going to get sued...

it's a hard thing to prove in court, and I doubt very much there lawyer would even advise of it going to court let alone touch it with a ten foot pole.

The judge would probably even through it out as they have better things to do.

They would have to prove intent to use the name for personal gains.
From what you said it's a hobby site. even if you sold model boats. they can't touch you.

anyways, you pocket bike geeks and quotes of law need to chill out.
everything is not a big conspiracy of law.


PUT THIS ON YOUR SITE: http://www.twenty4web.com/cig/cigboat.htm :agree: (http://www.twenty4web.com/cig/cigboat.htm)

You know it's funny.....

It's a simple case of Domain Bullying, period.
Laws or no laws
(you can find laws for it and against it, really depends on the view)

Everyone can tell him to get a lawyer or give the domain because your going to get sued...

it's a hard thing to prove in court, and I doubt very much there lawyer would even advise of it going to court let alone touch it with a ten foot pole.

The judge would probably even through it out as they have better things to do.

They would have to prove intent to use the name for personal gains.
From what you said it's a hobby site. even if you sold model boats. they can't touch you.

anyways, you pocket bike geeks and quotes of law need to chill out.
everything is not a big conspiracy of law.

Recently i went though the same exact thing. Let me tell you, anyone can steal your domain name. It happened to me on Dec 12, 07. This is how they did it.

1) They filed a suit against me in court in July 07.
2) Nobody notified me, the court did not notify me, Enom kept quite about it, not a single person contacted us, the company sueing us did not contact us.
3) They advertised my domain in the Los Angeles Times.
4) Since we do not read the LA times, i live on the East Coast, i had no idea that this was even happening.
5) On Dec 12, some jack *** from the company came to our CHAT SESSION and informed us that we had 24-48hrs to change DNS on all our servers otherwise all our client sites would go down, on every server. (Hey nice of them to let us know). In addition they stated that they won a law suit against us for not responding, SUIT BY PUBLIC ADVERTISING, and that enom had already transferred our domain name and it was under their control.

6) Once i found out about what was going on, i contacted a lawyer who told me that is would cost me, get this, 10 - 15k just to reverse the judgement.

Its nice to know that somebody can sue you without any notification whatsoever.

I suspect that the CEO of this company has done this before, has friends in the court or knew exactly how to go about this. In fact, i m sure they were hoping, crossed fingers that we would not response. That way, it was a sure win for them.

Its discusting that in todays day and age, anyone can steal your domain without any notification to you and still win. I am living proof. They took down my company, we lost quite a few customers because of it, and our downtime on our main server where we host our site was an entire weekend however because we have a good emergency plan in place regarding DNS, we were able to keep all sites afloat.

Is this fights over yet? Not yet, i intend to get the domain back even if it takes me the rest of my life.

As for Enom, i pulled 600 domain out from under them after this fiasco. They refused to give me any information about my domain name, what papers were filed etc after contacting them repeatedly at legal@enom.com. They just simply refused to reply to any of my emails.

So i decided this company was not worth anymore of my business and over the past 2 months i have transferred over 600 domains to another registrar. In the end, there will be an emtpy reseller shell account there with no busineess. I do not intend to do any futher business with this company.

Recently i went though the same exact thing. Let me tell you, anyone can steal your domain name. It happened to me on Dec 12, 07. This is how they did it.

1) They filed a suit against me in court in July 07.
2) Nobody notified me, the court did not notify me, Enom kept quite about it, not a single person contacted us, the company sueing us did not contact us.
3) They advertised my domain in the Los Angeles Times.
4) Since we do not read the LA times, i live on the East Coast, i had no idea that this was even happening.
5) On Dec 12, some jack *** from the company came to our CHAT SESSION and informed us that we had 24-48hrs to change DNS on all our servers otherwise all our client sites would go down, on every server. (Hey nice of them to let us know). In addition they stated that they won a law suit against us for not responding, SUIT BY PUBLIC ADVERTISING, and that enom had already transferred our domain name and it was under their control.

6) Once i found out about what was going on, i contacted a lawyer who told me that is would cost me, get this, 10 - 15k just to reverse the judgement.

Its nice to know that somebody can sue you without any notification whatsoever.

I suspect that the CEO of this company has done this before, has friends in the court or knew exactly how to go about this. In fact, i m sure they were hoping, crossed fingers that we would not response. That way, it was a sure win for them.

Its discusting that in todays day and age, anyone can steal your domain without any notification to you and still win. I am living proof. They took down my company, we lost quite a few customers because of it, and our downtime on our main server where we host our site was an entire weekend however because we have a good emergency plan in place regarding DNS, we were able to keep all sites afloat.

Is this fights over yet? Not yet, i intend to get the domain back even if it takes me the rest of my life.

wow, sorry to hear that.. i guess it depends on how much the judge was drinking that day!

Yes, it is very true that you can get sued and with out notice.
Thats not what I am saying, I was trying to make light of the situation...

But, if you are going to play in the business world, be prepared to be able to protect yourself, I guess thats another lesson!

The problem is, there is no protection. If somebody wants your domain bad enough they will find every means to get it. Obviously, there is a huge loophole in the system. Only scammers and people who have lots of experience at doing this sort of thing know how it works.

Image this, the company im talking about is featured on these forums in a number of threads. Because i intend to do something about it if it takes me the rest of my life based on principal, i cannot mention the CEO's name or company.

good for you on the enom thing too! I suspect they didn't want to get involved but you would think they would have some sort of obligation to do so... did you seek out a lawyer to ask about this?

There are a few states that are pretty crooked with the law, of course Canada is just as bad. Guilty before proven Guilty.

When I got to the bottom of page two, I was going to stick a fork in this thread....but for the shouting...

But page 3 might be the most interesting.

According to how a domain name can be pulled from under you is by publicly publishing the service as allowed for by a Federal statues. Dont ask me what this means exactly as i still dont understand it completely. I'v looked it up on the net but cant find much information about it.

If somebody does this to you, you can say goodbye to your domain name and then you can spend 15K trying to reverse the judgment.

I don't think that should be any problem

According to how a domain name can be pulled from under you is by publicly publishing the service as allowed for by a Federal statues. Dont ask me what this means exactly as i still dont understand it completely. I'v looked it up on the net but cant find much information about it.

If somebody does this to you, you can say goodbye to your domain name and then you can spend 15K trying to reverse the judgment.

Just recently came across this thread now, but what domain was stolen from you and by whom?