I know this is a rather broad question, but I'm currently deciding between 2 hosts, one that uses He.net as their network, and the other, Eli.net. My visitors are mostly from the US/ Europe. Is there a compelling reason to go for one network over the other? It's no point going with a great host if the network sucks.

One troublesome thing I've found on He.net (based on search on WHT) is that they seem to carry a lot of spammers/adult sites?

Thanks for any feedback and comparision between the two networks.

well i learned that he.net is west-coast based, so most likely you'll have higher latency from europe than you would have with east-coast based ones.
don't know much about eli.net, i assume, after a look at their network map, that they focus on the west coast too.

Greetings:

It is good to do some network tests and find out which provider gets the best travel time over a given period of time. If you have traffic coming from multiple locations around the world or Europe this becomes a little more complicated, but posting in this forum for speed tests and/or traceroutes is a good start.

If you need a valid IP on the HE.NET network let me know personally.

I have not personally used Eli.net but can vouch for Hurricane Electric as we use them for all new servers. Although bandwidth pricing is typically higher as compared to other providers out there, you will be getting quality - which IMHO is what matters :)

Hope this helps

I could test the speed of he.com. But I cannot test the speed of eli.net.
Does anyone know the file that I can download form eli.net?

I personally prefer he.net over eli.net as I've heard only good things about Hurricane Electric. They have a very fast and rock-solid network, but their pricing is a bit expensive.

Originally posted by easybyte
One troublesome thing I've found on He.net (based on search on WHT) is that they seem to carry a lot of spammers/adult sites?

Both HE and ELI have vast areas of their networks blackholed for allowing spam to flow from them relatively unchecked. Personally, I would avoid both providers at all costs.

-Bob

"Vast areas of their networks blackholed for allowing spam"

Was this their intention you're saying?

Originally posted by Samuel
Was this their intention you're saying?

Both providers have a long history of allowing spammers on their networks, as well as ignoring abuse reports about those spammers. As a result, large portions of both providers netblocks are blackholed. Whether or not this was their intention, I honestly couldn't tell you, but it doesn't appear that either provider cares one bit.

The Google usenet archives are full of information about both.

-Bob

That's wicked, thanks for the information.

Do you happen to know what portions are already blackholed, just a part of it mind you, just want to confirm the information.

Most major networks, have lots of blackholed areas.

Right, but apparently TMX is saying they are much worse? Ok, how so?

Originally posted by JTY
Most major networks, have lots of blackholed areas.

That is simply not true. That's not to say that most major providers do not have spam problems from time to time, but those who actively remove spammers from their networks upon being shown verifiable evidence of abuse by those spammers generally do not end up being blackholed by anyone of consequence..

Providers such as HE, which don't respond to abuse reports and/or who knowlingly allow spammers to operate from within their networks, are the ones who do end up blacklisted, and deservedly so.

-Bob

Originally posted by Samuel
Right, but apparently TMX is saying they are much worse? Ok, how so?


Here's a start - after this, you're on your own :)

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=+spam+%22hurricane+electric+%22+group%3Anews.admin.net-abuse.email&btnG=Google+Search

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=+spam+%22he+net+%22+group%3Anews.admin.net-abuse.sightings&btnG=Google+Search


-Bob

I work for an ISP. And, I've had issues before with multiple carriers. Verio, ATT, Worldcom... no one has ever responded to a complaint, only a simple auto-responder.

Originally posted by JTY
I work for an ISP

I know who you are.

And, I've had issues before with multiple carriers. Verio, ATT, Worldcom... no one has ever responded to a complaint, only a simple auto-responder.

I don't mean "respond" as sending a personal note, I mean "respond" as in taking care of their problems. Written responses, while nice and all, are basically worthless.

-Bob

Just wondering, how does a portion of an ISP's traffic being black listed affect its ligitimate customers? Are we talking only about emails not being able to reach certain destinations?

Originally posted by GeorgeC
Just wondering, how does a portion of an ISP's traffic being black listed affect its ligitimate customers? Are we talking only about emails not being able to reach certain destinations?

It only effects e-mail. And, some blacklists are more broadranged, than others.

well i learned that he.net is west-coast basedNot any more, they now have a presents on the East and West coast:

http://www.he.net/netmap.html

Originally posted by GeorgeC
Just wondering, how does a portion of an ISP's traffic being black listed affect its ligitimate customers? Are we talking only about emails not being able to reach certain destinations?

Because certain block lists such as spews like to block entire providers not just the person spamming.

I would recomened he.net. I've used them before and never had any problems.

Originally posted by GeorgeC
Just wondering, how does a portion of an ISP's traffic being black listed affect its ligitimate customers?

It depends on whos list is being used. SPEWS is known to go after fairly broad IP ranges, although contrary to multipleimege's statement, they don't just simply list an entire network on a whim.

Are we talking only about emails not being able to reach certain destinations?

Depending on how the lists are utilized by an ISP, email, web access, or any combination of services can be blocked. The most common usage of lists such as SPEWS is for denying email traffic, but an administrator can use the list(s) in any way he/she sees fit. Some other lists such as MAPS are available via BGP feed, which means no access of any sort to a listed IP (a method I personally disagree with, btw).

If you really want to know how this all works, I would recommend visiting SPEWS directly for starters:

http://spews.org/

-Bob

I never said they just listed providers for the fun of it.(although following there newsgroup that is debatable among some of them)

If there is a site on a network they feel is spam related or mass e-mails being sent out then yes they will list entire b blocks. Because remember there motto is collateral damage so they will complain to the upstream provider and that will fix the spamming problem.

I too was looking at he.net for some servers. The pings and tracerts from here in the UK are reasonable, although eli.net looks better.

he.net is good, heard that eli.net is also good (never tried it)

Originally posted by multipleimage
I never said they just listed providers for the fun of it.
No, but you did say that they like to list entire providers. While it does happen, it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound.

(although following there newsgroup that is debatable among some of them)

SPEWS does not have a newsgroup. They do reference news.admin.net-abuse.email (nanae), but there is no official connection. Another thing worth noting is that along with the knowledgeable, rational contributors, nanae is loaded with venom-spitting nutcases. If you go there, try to get a feel for who you're dealing with.

If there is a site on a network they feel is spam related or mass e-mails being sent out then yes they will list entire b blocks.
I have yet to see SPEWS list an entire Class B. In fact, I think it's safe to say they have never done so. Class Cs, yes. But still, it doesn't happen just like that, which was my point. A provider needs to show an ongoing pattern of allowing spammers to operate from within their networks before their listings encompass that kind of space. There are exceptions, but as a general rule, the listings start out much, much smaller than that.

If a spammer has a netblock that consists of five IPs, then that's what will be listed first. If no action is taken, then the listing will be expanded a little at a time until someone takes notice and fixes things. However, there comes a point where further expanding the listed netblocks will cause more harm than good. While SPEWS is most definitely aggressive with their listings, they are not irresponsible - that's why so many people use them.

-Bob

Go on news.admin.net-abuse.email and ask them if they block spews is blocking any b blocks. The answers might amaze you

Originally posted by multipleimage
Go on news.admin.net-abuse.email and ask them if they block spews is blocking any b blocks. The answers might amaze you

You're right, and I stand corrected - there are most definitely some Bs listed by SPEWS. My basic undersranding of network addressing is in need of some work, apparently.

-Bob

:cartman: