I have been going round and round with this guy over the requirements for truely private nameservers. I insist that they require a dedicated IP, and he insists that they don't! So, to settle this thing I am posting here for him to see one way or the other.

I know a user can have "Custom" nameservers without a dedi IP, but can they have "Private" nameservers without one?

Thanks in advance!

I have been going round and round with this guy over the requirements for truely private nameservers. I insist that they require a dedicated IP, and he insists that they don't! So, to settle this thing I am posting here for him to see one way or the other.

I know a user can have "Custom" nameservers without a dedi IP, but can they have "Private" nameservers without one?

Thanks in advance!

A dedicated IP won't make your nameservers any more private or less private.

You can have custom nameservers with a dedicated IP, likewise you can have private nameservers with a dedicated IP. Private/Custom - same thing.

Can you explain why you believe a dedicated IP would do anything for private/custom nameservers?

Setting up rDNS will make you more private, but that has nothing to do with your private/custom nameservers.

Private: 1 a: intended for or restricted to the use of a particular person, group, or class.

If by "private" you mean a nameserver used just by you, then even a dedicated ip won't suffice, as it would just be an alias of another ip on the same machine, thus the same shared nameserver as in what you define "custom".

being exactly the same thing i would't understand why waste an ip address :)

bye

There is a difference between custom and private. With custom you can easily be traced to where you have a "reseller account" as the RDNS shows the company you with. With private name servers you decide what the RDNS will be and you can tie your NS and domain and RDNS to be the same and it is then not so easy to trace where your servers is.

Apart from having that privacy that is all that you get but yes you do require 2 dedicated IP's to do this.

There is a difference as with private NS you do not share those IP's with anybody the same as having a dedicated IP for your domain.

That is why it is called Private and no sharing;)

There is a difference between custom and private. With custom you can easily be traced to where you have a "reseller account" as the RDNS shows the company you with. With private name servers you decide what the RDNS will be and you can tie your NS and domain and RDNS to be the same and it is then not so easy to trace where your servers is.


What happens if the rDNS set for each name servers are completely anonymous or use an anonymous domain just like the host names of the actual machines themselves? I don't see how those would be any less anonymous then ones with dedicated IP's.

What happens if the rDNS set for each name servers are completely anonymous or use an anonymous domain just like the host names of the actual machines themselves? I don't see how those would be any less anonymous then ones with dedicated IP's.

Yes if the company does that which is not always the case. i have a few resellers and 2 use the same as the company i am with. i personally dont think it is worth 2 ips unless you get them free and then all your clients accounts is on a shared ip so what is the point as they can trace your host in most cases

i suppose the best way to go is to get a vps or dedicated as those will have your own ip's for ns and shared ips tied to your domain only

What happens if the rDNS set for each name servers are completely anonymous or use an anonymous domain just like the host names of the actual machines themselves? I don't see how those would be any less anonymous then ones with dedicated IP's.

Very good point. In which case you are back to the same debate of whether or not private and custom with IP's have any difference.


As for the difference in Private and Custom terms used.

@johannes What you say is referring to private and shared IP, not private and custom nameservers. If you share a nameserver, you are using the nameservers the host provides you. If you share an IP, you are using the main server IP's.

But I understand your point :)

I think the multiple terminilogies being used to refer to the same thing or lack of accuracy in terminilogy used has made it pretty confusing.

Very good point. In which case you are back to the same debate of whether or not private and custom with IP's have any difference.


We've been doing this for ages it makes our lives easier and offers the user a clustered dns system. I really have a hard time seeing the reasoning to want 2 ip's for the sake of dns when they're on the same machine anyways. It's going to provide absolutely nothing for the reseller because all it takes is adding or subtracting a number from the ip's to find another reseller.

So I think anyways a reseller who has their own shared IP and name servers that are anonymous in rDNS or hostname will do the job. No need to waste tons of IP's on name servers.

I have been going round and round with this guy over the requirements for truely private nameservers. I insist that they require a dedicated IP, and he insists that they don't!
Sounds like a mismatch in terminology.
To have *custom* or *vanity* nameservers i.e be able to use
ns1.mybigcompanydomain.org and ns2.mybigcompanydomain.org doesnt require dedicated IPs at all.

Some people like the "exclusivity" of the ptr record resolving back to ns2.mybigcompanydomain.org and that of course requires a fixed IP (for which you'll likely get charged, and IMHO is a massive waste of the remaining ipv4 address space)

There is no such thing as "private" nameservers, and anyone with 5 monutes and half-a-clue will always be able to find out where the server is, who you're reselling etc only the newest of small hosts actually believe in some sort of "anonymity" from their suppliers.

you need to have dedicated ip. but few peoples provide this option for free with reseller accounts, even with dedicated ips. private nameservers is some thing good and it will show your business more professional, specially if you are selling webhosting as business

There is no such thing as "private" nameservers, and anyone with 5 monutes and half-a-clue will always be able to find out where the server is, who you're reselling etc only the newest of small hosts actually believe in some sort of "anonymity" from their suppliers.

Just as a matter of interest to see if it is any good to have "private nameservers" With which company is this server situated. i do own this domain and server

www.epropnet.com (http://www.epropnet.com) with ns1.epropnet.com & ns2.epropnet.com ;)

Just as a matter of interest to see if it is any good to have "private nameservers" With which company is this server situated. i do own this domain and server

www.epropnet.com (http://www.epropnet.com) with ns1.epropnet.com & ns2.epropnet.com ;)

Server name (or used to be) vps1375.farverbweb.com
Farverbweb.com is registered to JTL Networks (which also holds the IP space for both name servers and the server in question. It looks like the server was setup on or around December 2nd, 2007.

Your server also runs these versions of software: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 PHP/4.4.7 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635.SR1.2 mod_ssl/2.8.28 OpenSSL/0.9.7a

;)

Server name (or used to be) vps1375.farverbweb.com
Farverbweb.com is registered to JTL Networks (which also holds the IP space for both name servers and the server in question. It looks like the server was setup on or around December 2nd, 2007.

Your server also runs these versions of software: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 PHP/4.4.7 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635.SR1.2 mod_ssl/2.8.28 OpenSSL/0.9.7a

;)

Well point proved, no need to have "private nameservers" as it is a waste of time as it just make your look good. I had them install cpanel for me on the Dec 2nd as i use to have server CP for a while.

Custom nameservers is a must though as if you move your server it makes it easy.

Well now I'm confussed anyone else? :)

Some peopel say you need dedi IP's and others say you don't. so I'm not sure.

I guess the best thing to do would be to ask the question this way.

What is the best way to remain anonymous as a reseller? I have talked to the host whom I recently bought another reseller from for a couple of clients, and he basicly told me thet rdns would do no good, dedicated IP's would do no good, that there is NO way to have real private nameservers!

Having your sites on a dedicated IP and not the main server IP and having rDNS set up will do something.

That said, as Mat demonstrated, someone who is determined to find out whether you are a reseller or not will probably find out somehow.

Having your sites on a dedicated IP and not the main server IP and having rDNS set up will do something.

That said, as Mat demonstrated, someone who is determined to find out whether you are a reseller or not will probably find out somehow.

Indeed.

Often a traceroute is enough, regardless of the rest (at least with big providers having a core-edge routing system and their own racks/cages).

Personally, should i start a reselling business, in the unlikely case i'd be concerned about anonimity of dnses, i would buy a business account on dnsmadeeasy (or similar services), setup vanity nameservers on the top of theirs, and enjoy multiple NS and ip anycast rather than pretending to be anonymous. :-)

Well is suppose the only route to go then is get a dedicated server as even some of the bigger hosting companies don't have their own data center but if you can't do that then just get a reseller or like i have a vps with JTL which is better than a reseller and as JTL only concentrate on servers and vps i dont see that as being a drawback in starting as a hosting company.

It is like saying if a own property the business is better than the one renting property. Not really as i could be wiser to start of renting and that way have more resources than you would have had by buying property.

Someone once told me to use the banks money (wisdom) as those that are rich make use of the bank.

A Indian business man walked into a bank here in Durban and asked the bank manager for a $2000 loan as he needed it for a 2 week business trip to India. The bank manager knowing this guys have millions was a bit confused and ask him what he can provide as guarantee for the $2000. The business man told the bank manager that he can keep his Ferrari in the vault until he gets back from India. The manager parked the Ferrari in the vault.

2 weeks later the business man came to the bank and paid back the $2000 and the $50 interest for the loan.

The bank manager confused asked the Indian business man why he wanted a loan for $2000 as he have millions in his bank account.

The Indian business man replied; "Where can you park a Ferrari for 2 weeks for only $50 and know it will be there when you come back.

Wisdom use the bank

The short if you cant afford a data center start of with a reseller account as most that will dig into your account will be those that have nothing to do or is selling hosting anyway

I wouldn't bother with private name servers but there is many offering 2 ip's for free if it will make you feel beter. i wouldn't loose sleep over it but get custom name servers as that way you are free to move whenever you want and you can take all your accounts with you easily

Well is suppose the only route to go then is get a dedicated server as even some of the bigger hosting companies don't have their own data center

You don't need a provider who owns an entire datacenter, it's enough they have their own core-edge network, with a traceroute to your ip you'll see the name of the hoster own routers.

Anyhow you don't even need a datacenter as a arin/ripe query on the ip it's enough to know about the provider you're reselling from.

I still don't see the point anyway, as even if you rent your own dedicated server from someone (softlayer, serverbeach, etc), you still don't own your equipment. I find this perfectly acceptable. Don't see this need to hide frankly.

It starting to get off topic here. This thread is about the use of private nameservers on a reseller account, and what is the most effective way of using them to remain anonymous.

It starting to get off topic here. This thread is about the use of private nameservers on a reseller account, and what is the most effective way of using them to remain anonymous.

I think that has been answered pretty well :stickout:

In summary:
Private nameservers = good
Private nameservers with dedicated IP != extra anonymity but is a waste of IP's.
private nameservers + all accounts on a dedicated IP with rDNS setup = good with slightly more anonymity.

@johannes: Excellent story!

It starting to get off topic here. This thread is about the use of private name servers on a reseller account, and what is the most effective way of using them to remain anonymous.

No not really as i think having private name servers it seems to be just a "in thing" as johnny-i said " what are you hiding from anyway.

Reseller hosting serves a purpose and to me it is mainly helping me to learn about the trade cheaply. By trying to hide the fact that you have a reseller is like buying a vw beetle and placing a Porsche body on top pretending to own a Porsche

At the end of the day there doesn't seem to be an effective way to hide then is there.

i mean imagine having a reseller account within a reseller account that have 20 reseller accounts on one of 10 reseller accounts on a vps and then try to hide with private nameservers making out you are a big hosting company :stickout: (made possible thanks to WHM Master reseller)

build-a-host,

When i got my first reseller and added my custom name severs i said to myself "now i am a hosting company and i own my own server WOW" I felt good for a few months until i stumbled upon a site that reveals all about my ip's and then i found another 400 sites on "my server" that is only suppose to have 50 sites, and my bubble burst as i realized that now everybody on the internet knows my secret I DONT HAVE MY OWN SERVER

Well i have been using reseller hosting for 3 years now and it is actually not to bad if you have a good host and they know what they are doing.

My example i used epropnet.com is a domain i own as i am a real estate agent and not using that domain. i have another reseller under propnique.com which is a domain i purchased for a client that is thinking of become a real estate agent and as i am not using the domain is using it for another reseller account.

About 60 of my clients are on the propnique reseller and to be honest as single shared hosting clients they don't even know what ns1.propnique.com means

Now i have a VPS with the epropnet.com and also another dedicated server and both these i am messing around with before i will place clients on there. Ultimately some day i would like to only have a few dedicated servers but for now i leave all the headaches with my good hosting companies under 3 resellers until i know and can handle things better

i can nowadays when i surf and come across a hosting company website kind off sense from the site whether they are using a reseller, dedicated or few dedicated servers

Dont worry about it as you cant hide but most people when you hide if you are selling shared hosting couldn't care what nameservers is anyway

I have been going round and round with this guy over the requirements for truely private nameservers. I insist that they require a dedicated IP, and he insists that they don't! So, to settle this thing I am posting here for him to see one way or the other.

I know a user can have "Custom" nameservers without a dedi IP, but can they have "Private" nameservers without one?

Thanks in advance!

Actually i am a bit confused at you questions above as i just looked at your site and seems to sell a wide range of shared, vps, linux and windows servers and if you offer such a range of expertise surely you should know the answer for the above. The range of products you offer actually makes you a pro in this game and i know i am still a novice learning

or perhaps you are just reselling .........................;) or doing some marketing?

build-a-host,

What i suggest you must do is get a dedicated IP on you domain as i see....


a few porn sites...........
a Christian site.........
some freehosting sites.........
and a few other hosting companies sharing the same shared IP as yours

Prove you cant hide nowadays:eek:

it is actually not to bad if you have a good host and they know what they are doing.

Herein lies the important point :D

Selection of a quality reseller provider, who can provide accurate and timely support as-and-when needed etc is going to provide you with a more stable base and your customers with a better experience than any amount of pretending to be larger than you are.

Indeed it might actually help in gaining the clients if you explain *why* you picked that supplier.