The developers of the X-Cart and LiteCommerce Shopping Cart Software recently sent me an e-mail saying they are raising the prices of all of their products and services. On January 3, 2008 they are going to raise prices approximately 15%.

X-Cart Gold Software Licenses are going up from $199.00 to $229.00.
X-Cart Pro Software Licenses are going up from $499.00 to $575.00.
LiteCommerce Software Licenses are going up from $99.00 to $109.00.

All of the add-on modules, custom development, web design and their support services are going up as well.

Apparently due to the recent large fluctuation in the US Dollar exchange rate :)

Of course, OSCommerce and ZenCart remain Free ....................... :D

:D Bailey

Osc & Zencart will remain good option.

its not important !
when you have sale i think 200$ yearly or 500$ yearly makes no difference

its not important !
when you have sale i think 200$ yearly or 500$ yearly makes no difference

What are you talking about? How do you figure it is not important, or makes no difference? Of course it is important! Not everybody can afford those kinds of fees. Not everybody sells fifty $800 items per day, and can recuperate their costs in a blink of an eye.........

For a small business, these fees are absolutely significant. I feel bad for any shop that is getting caught in those kinds of recurring fees... the software can price you "out of house and home" very quickly, especially in the current "soft" (lousy) retail climate (in the U.S.).

:D Bailey

How anyone can even consider using software that the developers hide their support forums from public view is beyond me :eek:

its not important !
when you have sale i think 200$ yearly or 500$ yearly makes no difference
I think that the fee for a good shopping cart should be appropriate to the amount of business one is doing. Personally I don't think a $200 full retail one time fee (Not Yearly) with free lifetime software updates is a lot of money to pay for the features and quality of the x-cart software. Some carts do have yearly fees and they are worth it if you are willing to pay it. All shopping cart software, open source and commercial grade with one time or yearly fees, have their places in the e-commerce industry. You can find discounts on some shopping carts as well. So it is possible to pick up shopping cart software for much less than the full retail price or get a discount on your yearly pricing. ;)

How anyone can even consider using software that the developers hide their support forums from public view is beyond me :eek:
I used to feel the same way as you do. And I have had some long discussions with others in regards to this. For Open Source software it makes sense. However, on the commercial side it has come to my attention that having open forums does invite the possibility of someone posting something that can help hackers breach security. This applies not only to the software but also specific websites and servers. People will post just about anything without thinking or realizing they are posting sensitive information. The second thing that I have discussed with others at great length is the fact that as people post complaints about the features or weaknesses of a product the competition can pick up on these items and use this information to their advantage. Including coding issues both how to and how not to code something. The other thing that goes along with this is suggestions for new features. In order to stay competitive a company would like to be at the front of the features game and not playing catch-up.

While I understand what you are saying there are some good reasons why a company may choose not to open their support forums up to the general public.

I used to feel the same way as you do. And I have had some long discussions with others in regards to this. For Open Source software it makes sense. However, on the commercial side it has come to my attention that having open forums does invite the possibility of someone posting something that can help hackers breach security. This applies not only to the software but also specific websites and servers. People will post just about anything without thinking or realizing they are posting sensitive information. The second thing that I have discussed with others at great length is the fact that as people post complaints about the features or weaknesses of a product the competition can pick up on these items and use this information to their advantage. Including coding issues both how to and how not to code something. The other thing that goes along with this is suggestions for new features. In order to stay competitive a company would like to be at the front of the features game and not playing catch-up.

While I understand what you are saying there are some good reasons why a company may choose not to open their support forums up to the general public.
I do understand all the points you have raised there but that it is the job of the forum staff to keep on top of such posts. For me personally i believe that if a company is hiding something from public view then they must actually have something to hide, whether its negative comments about their script or something else i dont know but you dont generally hide something unless you are afraid of something being found out.

If their forums were open as 99% of all other shopping cart support forums are then it would mean prospective customers can browse these forums to gage whether they should consider buying their product and the general 'feel' of how support requests are dealt with and other updates.

Oddly a collegue of mine recommended SunShop to me over the weekend so i had a good play with their demo and quite liked it although it did miss a couple of features that i need. I then visited their forum to read through support requests and get a general idea on how customers are treated and was very put off by what i read.

Now ofcourse this is bad for SunShop developers because their open forum put me off buying their product based on how they spoke to and treated their customers but it was good for me because it meant that i could make a relatively informed choice before taking things any further.

Back to the original post:

15% isnt really a big deal here and its something you should be able to get back from sales over the year and frankly if you cant get back 15% then its time to reconsider your choice of career ;)

It never ceases to amaze me how many people expect to setup an ecommerce venture hoping to make a better life for themselves yet soooo many expect to not have to pay anything out for doing it. I own probably the most well known skin store for CubeCart and am quite active on their forums, mainly their modding forums. Nearly everyday i read someone having a moan because they have to pay a few dollars to buy mods and skins when they can get it all for free if they go for OSC or one of its derivitives. Why is it you (meaning in general), think its OK for you to try to better your life but its not OK for we designers and coders to do the same?

The moral of the story is if you dont want to pay for a script that you claim to NEED then learn to code and do it all for yourself ;):topic:

Rant over :P

If their forums were open as 99% of all other shopping cart support forums are then it would mean prospective customers can browse these forums to gage whether they should consider buying their product and the general 'feel' of how support requests are dealt with and other updates.
Rant over :P
Just to clarify something particular about X-Cart. The forums for X-Cart are customer to customer forums and not necessarily developer to customer forums. While the development company does host and monitor the forums they rarely ever post there. They are mainly for customer questions to be answered by other customers. The actual support of the software is handled through the customer account helpdesk. With that said, the forums are large and very active. The good thing about the forums are that there is a good chance someone else has already posted the same question and the answer is already available. So you get instant answers. The downside is that sometimes it takes a little while to search to find the exact answer you are looking for. X-Cart has a large customer base and the forums reflect that.

I may be wrong but I believe that if you send an e-mail to the X-Cart customer support you can get an account so you can view the forums and the account interface. I think the idea is not to hide it from potential customers but to make it harder for the wrong people to see the forums. JMHO :)

Just to clarify something particular about X-Cart. The forums for X-Cart are customer to customer forums and not necessarily developer to customer forums. While the development company does host and monitor the forums they rarely ever post there. They are mainly for customer questions to be answered by other customers. The actual support of the software is handled through the customer account helpdesk. With that said, the forums are large and very active. The good thing about the forums are that there is a good chance someone else has already posted the same question and the answer is already available. So you get instant answers. The downside is that sometimes it takes a little while to search to find the exact answer you are looking for. X-Cart has a large customer base and the forums reflect that.

I know most support forums are exactly the same, i know that CubeCart is definately customer to customer support only with a ticket system for official support and its pretty much the same with Viart, CS-Cart, Avactis and SunShop to name a few, none of which hide the forums from the public.

I will take your advice though and contact XCart to see if an account can be obtained :D

Of course, OSCommerce and ZenCart remain Free ....................... :D
I beg to differ. OSCommerce is actually one of the most expensive carts when you consider TCO and not just a one-time fee.

I will take your advice though and contact XCart to see if an account can be obtained :D
Please post back and let me know if they still do this. It has been quite a while since I recommended this path to a customer so it may have changed.

I beg to differ. OSCommerce is actually one of the most expensive carts when you consider TCO and not just a one-time fee.


Huh? There are no fees whatsoever.

:D Bailey

Huh? There are no fees whatsoever.
TCO stands for the Total Cost of Ownership. Please take the time to get familiar with it and I will be happy to discuss this further :)

TCO stands for the Total Cost of Ownership. Please take the time to get familiar with it and I will be happy to discuss this further :)
I think what the OP was asking is not what TCO means. I think they wanted to know what you feel the TCO of osCommerce based is on the fact there are no fees. For instance, what specific costs are you talking about? :confused:

I know what TCO means, thank you :) and I have deployed and run multiple open-source carts as well as payware carts over the past 10 years, in the course of running my own clicks-and-mortar business... so yes, I am well aware of what TCO means in real-world terms.

I will concur that OSC is not "cheap" in that you can't just walk in as a fresh-faced newbie, snap your fingers and have a gorgeous, custom cart running in minutes. My first foray into OSC was a nightmare. I recall being dragged kicking & screaming into the world of OSC coding, and not enjoying it in the least!!

The investment in OSC is greatest

the first time you tackle it -- it is much easier for subsequent carts and projects, which is a great argument for why to use a web developer, their expertise is well worth every penny; and
if you are the only person on your staff who does all the web development work -- another argument for why to use a web developer; and
if you need additional functionality than a base OSC installation offers, requiring the installation of contributions.
I have long said on this forum, and with customers & associates, that OSC is not a user-friendly cart to jump into. It is labor-intensive and definitely not user-friendly. I am NOT a big fan of OSC.

Which is why I also mentioned ZenCart. :D

The fact is, there is no truly user-friendly, easy-to-use, full-featured, affordable cart out there. There is no shopping cart nirvana. We are all kind of patching together the best solution we can come up with at the time, that best meets the needs of our particular site.

Every cart out there promises to be 'just what you need' and 'the perfect e-commerce solution' and what-not... the truth is that they are the "perfect" solution for only a small niche of shops. Every cart serves a niche; no cart is a one-size-fits-all. The challenge for us as shop owners is to find the cart that best meets the needs of our particular business. This is especially difficult for shop owners who don't know the first thing about e-commerce or the internet... newbies are overwhelmed by the terminology and concepts... and newbies can't possibly predict the consequences of their choices in advance, because they've never done e-commerce before to know what repercussions are caused by particular features (or lack thereof).

And what's amazing is that e-commerce has grown by leaps and bounds in just the last few years. When I started out in 1997, there wasn't squat for carts, and the scripts out there were hideously unfriendly to install & administer. (And they had very, very few features!) What we have today is a whole new world of e-comm... and yet there isn't one single cart that we can all recommend hands-down as "try this, you can't go wrong."

In the end we still have to know our site's needs, and then hunt for the cart that best meets those needs. If it doesn't meet all of our needs amply, the TCO is going to be high. The key is picking the right cart for the job.

:D Bailey