For someone new to dedicated servers and linux.. is there a good site with alot of howto info? Like how to create nameservers, monitor IPs, etc.etc..

Do you have ICQ or AIM?

I want to learn, I will begin linux classes the next tuesday, but I will like to read before begining. I will apreciate

I have AIM , SN- slave2walmart

lol, can you tell what my day job might be:(

dreamHOBO....

Could you Private Message me some info too?

I need to learn linux and fast!!

Betty Ann

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you are going to run a web server anytime soon and don't know anything, or much, you aren't going to learn enough anytime soon to do it properly, or safely. In other words, if you don't have some help or some initial set up that's reasonably secure and configured decently and you are going to put it up online at a data center and not have it at home or on a private or home network, you need to seriously consider waiting. As exciting and fun as it might sound, there's a lot of issues involved. This isn't just deciding to jump into web design where the worst you do is maybe have invalid HTML syntax, etc.

There is no fast way to learn Linux and all the issues involved with a web server. There are some sites and books that make attempts to tell you how, but very few offer very much useful information. Don't misunderstand me, they can offer a lot for a beginner, but few offer much in the way of real world scenarios. Even if you did read sites and books, it would take many months, if not many years, to get good or very good at it.

While it's all good and fine to learn and you have to start somewhere, you are basically creating a target for some cracker to find eventually and use against yourself and others. You should hire someone on to help you out to make sure that your server doesn't become a problem (for you and others), until you become capable of understanding enough aspects in the meantime. There's simply a lot ot learn and there's more involved then just Linux, as there's a lot more than commands and whatnot, but many types of software that if not set up properly the first time (i.e., it is not forgiving of the time frame needed to learn all or enough involved), and will just cause a lot of people a lot of problems.

That disclaimer said, what sort of information do you know now, if any and what type of aspects are you looking to learn about? I'd be glad to suggest some books, sites and whatnot, but if you can help me know what aspects, if any specific that you want or need to know or what you'll be doing, if it's managed or not and if you have any help currently or not, I'd have a better idea where to maybe start suggesting. Good luck.

well that helps with my other thread. I've thought of taking some classes on Linux . Any suggestions?

Originally posted by Phoenix2k
well that helps with my other thread. I've thought of taking some classes on Linux . Any suggestions?

Sorry, not really. Other than the standard Unix classes, I don't think many places are able or qualified to really teach much that's useful. Where are you technically at currently and what sites and books do you have or are planning to get? There's really a great deal of things to be educated on, a tremendous amount, so it depends if you want to be able to do a little or a lot, or all of it.

So, what types of aspects are you looking for information on and to be better or more familiar at than other things? For example there's a lot of aspects, like support, server set ups and configurations, security, programming, trouble shooting client problems and scripts, web server, mail server, DNS issues, and many, many other things. You can maybe start on one or a few, but it depends on what sort of services you want to use or offer, or just learn.

server set ups probably client problems and scripts.

Originally posted by Phoenix2k
well that helps with my other thread. I've thought of taking some classes on Linux . Any suggestions?

Get involved in a user group near you, go to online forums, chat in IRC, be Linux.

I suggest starting with a good red hat book, read it and try the things written in it. I am sure you will get good hold of linux within 30 days if you read and practice for 2-3 hours in a day. DNS, Apache etc., are not that hard to learn and install but when it comes to troubleshooting its a big deal specially if you don't have in-depth knowledge of working of them.

Oh!! no, I am not a linux guru, but learning fast. :)

Originally posted by Phoenix2k
server set ups probably client problems and scripts.

Okay, a quick run down, would be to find out what the most popular software is for a web server. In this case it would be things like Apache (web server), Qmail (mail), Vpopmail/Qpopper (POP, etc.), Sendmail (same), BIND (DNS), GCC/CC, Perl, C (compiling, programming languages), CGI, permissions, ownership's, commands, how to edit files, etc., grep, vi, pico, more, cat, cd, ls, top, ps, losf, netstat, ping, traceroute, chmod, chown, etc., TCP/IP and network issues, setups, etc., and all the commonly used commands for tasks and editing and monitoring, checking, etc. Things like PHP, web server modules, PHP addons, MySQL, database stuff, ProFTP (FTP), shell scripting, cron jobs/automated tasks, monitoring scripts, knowing how to check logs and a thousand other things.

Read up on all the sites for the things you need to learn about, the issues with them, how to set them up, compile and install them, configure them, secure them. Read up on common mistakes, errors, bugs, problems and solutions. Check and use the info stuff, man pages, read README and INSTALL files, documentation, whatever you can get your hands on. Anything relevant to any aspect of what you'll be doing.

Learn about kernel compiles, init scripts, system files, adding and controlling users, basic settings, etc. and learn a million other things. Then you can get started on customer support and once you learn how to find and solve problems in scripts and issues with clients email settings, FTP stuff, CGI and PHP scripts, permissions and ownership issues, and how everything works and fits together, learn how to spot potential and actual problems, security issues, poorly coded scripts, how to debug problems, programs, services and scripts, and then you'll be able to do some basic to general installs and provide level 1 customer support.

From there you can learn so many things, you can't even believe how much is out there. I've been doing this for 10 years and have learned so much by reading, doing, figuring things out, experimenting, being thrown into the server administrator or programmer role for so many various things, I can't even to start to imagine how little I knew when I thought I knew a lot a long time ago. The problem also comes in even at this time, if you need to understand enough of how it all works together or individually to prevent the system from overloading and your web server or system crashing or having problems, security concerns (not just keeping up to date, but many things from how you compile and configure the services/programs, how you limit things, monitor things, etc.) to be able to stay alive without getting cracked or have something cause harm to your system or set up.

After you learn all of that, you're gong to learn a lot more and then a ton more and then you'll be at a level 2 technician. From there and a few years later you'll be at a junior admin or admin level and more time and a lot more knowledge and you'll be at the level where you can do anything you need to do, and always learn more and keep up to date and come up with new or better ideas, do kernel hacking and so on.


There's so much to list and I guess it's just too much to think about to try and cover even the basics or even really outline the process very well. And all of these things are so very involved, it's just very difficult to make any realistic suggestions of where to go, what to do, where to learn it, etc. I've left so many important and relevant aspects of this post, I should have known better. It's simply too involved, and there's simply far too much to try and cover.

It would take a few days or weeks just to get a reasonable list of steps and things that you'd have to go down one by one to cover and I'd end up leaving hundreds of other vital elements out at that. Maybe that puts it into perspective, or maybe I just expect too much, but it's not forbidden or impossible. Just get into it and start doing it. You'll find your niche! I also don't mean that you need to know all of what I said to be any good at Linux or a Linux web server, nor that it's all that difficult in a lot of aspects or that complex or involved. I'm just trying to think of what I had to know to feel confortable setting up web servers properly and providing support in a well rounded manner. Have fun!

Well thats enough to help him NOT become a host :D but your right, it wont happen overnight, but it will happen.

You can always hire someone to be a sysadmin for you.

Originally posted by Tux-e-do
Well thats enough to help him NOT become a host :D but your right, it wont happen overnight, but it will happen.

You can always hire someone to be a sysadmin for you.

I don't mean to scare anyone off, most people can do it, it just takes time, dedication and even an imagination and some comprehension specific to it too, actually. It's just that to do a basic web host with clients, you need to know a lot about a lot of things, or you have to hire someone to either assist you or do it for you, but it's not suggested you try on your own, because you can very likely end up having big problems and that's not any fun and it's not fair to paying clients.

I don't expect anyone in this thread intends to have people pay them to host them and pretend they know what they are doing,. but I'm just saying that it takes a lot more than knowing how to install Apache, BIND and Sendmail to run a web host even badly. I'm sure everyone knows what I'm saying, but I'd just suggest they take their time (not be slow, but just wait until they know a lot more than what you'll learn in a few weeks or months).. or not. :-) I'm just trying to make people aware, not make people hesitate. :-)

Great posts, 2host.com!

OK, lets say that after considering all the above, I still desire to learn what I need to know to run and manage Linux or FreeBSD servers doing webhosting for paying clients.

Lets also say I've got the ability to learn and master the material over time.

So what's the best course of action to take -- and
how long do you think it will take before I as a *nix newbie starting out are fully qualified to run a hosting business where I manage my own servers *well* and *securely* for my customers?

Any particlular OS or distro have less *total* learning time to reach fully competent status?
For instance, should I forget Linux and stick to FreeBSD -- or will it not matter much either way learning wise?

And in the meantime, what are the most viable options in obtaining support for customers; i.e. how does one make sure they have the bases covered when I don't know what I don't -- but need to -- know *nix wise? Stick to being a reseller? Bobcares.com? Hire it out piecework wise? If so, how much is a fair price to pay and what to look for to make sure the tech knows their stuff? What to look for or insist upon in a tech one hires? What would a fair tech support bill for a server be per month?

Thanks for sharing on these issues -- and any others that come to mind! I really want to get there -- and have an idea of the best way, how long it will take, and what to do in the meantime.


Take care and absolute best wishes,

Louis

Are there any descent online distance learning programs for linux that anyone knows about.. ive found a few but they all require basic knowledge of linux or unix from the start..

Im looking for a dumby course,, hehe...

How similar is linux OS on a computer compared to the linux server administration tasks really???

My partner does most of the server work, but I do want to learn more.

We have the need for a unix server because of certain programs that I would like to run on a couple of my websites (not customer sites).

For the last 4-5 years we have run NT and Win2000 servers.

Would it be just a difficult for my partner to learn linux with his knowledge of NT and Win 2000, as would be for me as an almost complete newbie?

Also, since the sites that would be on the 'nix' server are not customer sites would it be reasonable to get a 'nix' dedicated
that includes CPanel and WHM while taking the time to actually learn all the intricacy's of a 'nix' server?

Thanks....and yes if you have any really good suggestions for a place to start learning (ie, books, websites, whatever) I would love to have that list.

Thanks

Betty

Not so long ago I leased a FreeBSD server without knowing anything about FreeBSD and with very very few experiences with unix in general. I didn't know what BIND was and why it sucked and I had almost no idea of how apache, sendmail and the like worked. Although a few weeks later people were paying me to host their site..

2 years later I am now designing a system to automate administration tasks of heterogeneous *nix web/mail/dns server farms.

...And people are still paying me to host their site...


In my opinion, 95% of the time, it's the official documentation coming with a particuliar piece of software that is worthy enough to be read. Books, tutorials, courses, etc.. are usually outdated, innacurate, incomplete, etc..

Hey smash, I agree with you, thats depend in how you deal with the stuff, a common sense and a good attitude.Ask everything if you dont know, theres only one Dumb question...The one that you never ask.

As someone ambitious enough to try it, maybe my experience will help you.

Now, I was already familiar with a lot of commands, had my favorite editor, understood .*rc files, rudimentary shell programming, etc, I didn't know much of anything else.

I started in early June, and I'm not ready yet.

If you understand the theat to this wonderful resource - the internet - then a lot of your time will be spent understanding how to secure your server.

I used Mandrake 8.2, because the GUI will do most of the idiot level stuff for you. But I found another use for it.

I try to configure everything at the command line, first. If I just can't get it working (reading HOWTOs and everything I can find) then I resort to the GUI.

THEN I go back to the command line and look at the affected files to see exactly what was done, and why my attempts didn't work. In the process, I've learned enough to know that I need to know a bunch!

(Actually, I've gotten pretty good, and when I think I've got it down, I'm going to do the entire configuration at the command line, then find a REAL Guru to check it out for me)

The best advice I saw given was to find your local users group, and attend meetings regularly. Also, you won't hurt yourself by USING the OS. Be aware that Windows is not all that cooperative, so if you can spare an extra harddrive, buy one and stick your Linux flavor on it.

PS With so many people believing that M$ Windows is the only operating system, you probably won't get much out of the class. If you can do it, You'd do better to pay the Redhat or Mandrake or any of the distros their fee and attend classes put on by them.

THEN go through the sweating.

BTW, here's an online school for some basic stuff.

http://www.mandrakecampus.com/

A place for newbie info:

http://www.linuxnewbie.org
http://www.ctssn.com/

I got a ton more, but it's getting late.

whats the difference between linux and unix??

Linux is a flavor of Unix.

Linux is open source and unix is commercial.

Originally posted by Abaddon
Linux is open source and unix is commercial.

That's extremely inaccurate. FreeBSD is a type of unix, and so is Linux. Under Linux, there are different "types", such as "RedHat" or "TurboLinux". Some unix OR linux is open source, and some is not.

Thanks you guys have been a great help.

Originally posted by chrisb


That's extremely inaccurate. FreeBSD is a type of unix, and so is Linux. Under Linux, there are different "types", such as "RedHat" or "TurboLinux". Some unix OR linux is open source, and some is not.

Redhat and turbolinux are distros of linux. Linux is the kernel and has nothing to do with the software packaged with it.


FreeBSD is a type of Unix but it is not UNIX. Perhaps if the Question was what is the difference between FreeBSD and Linux the answer would have been a different one.

perhaps this thread is 2 months old

Whoa I didnt even know how old. I just thought I would let chris know what linux is:)