I have a client that owns 100+ related domain names. He wants each of the domain names to redirect to one specific domain. However, he also wants each of the 100+ domains to be indexable by search engines.

For example, he has:
* ChairsForSale.com
* TablesForSale.com
* DesksForSale.com
* Anything-similar-that-he-could-registerForSale.com

And he wants all those domain names to redirect to:
* StuffSellers.com

But at the same time he wants all those 100+ *ForSale.com sites to be indexable by search engines to capitalize on the fact that the domains names are composed of valuable keywords. So if some one types "chairs for sale" in a search engine, a link to ChairsForSale.com will be displayed (hopefully high in the search results) and clicking on it will redirect to StuffSellers.com.


Here are my questions:

If all the 100+ *ForSale.com sites redirect to StuffSellers.com, will search engines index it? BTW, I'm talking about a domain redirect (which I assume is an HTTP redirect), not a meta redirect.

If ChairsForSale.com redirected to a page at StuffSellers.com/ChairsForSale that contained meta tags specific to selling chairs, then that page did a meta redirected to the StuffSellers.com homepage, would the search engines create more targetted indexes? Or would they stop indexing as soon as the first domain redirect occurs?

What would be the most effective hosting solution to accomplish this? Keep in mind that this client feels that getting a very high search engine ranking (top 20, if possible) will be one of the most important factors determining the success of his site. Also, I want to avoid using search engine spam techniques as much as possible. The cost of the solution is a much less important concern, but a concern nonetheless (of course).

Can I just have the 100+ *ForSale.com domains redirect to StuffSellers.com, and only need to host the StuffSellers.com domain name?

Should I have the 100+ *ForSale.com domains redirect to StuffSellers.com/*ForSale, and only need to host the StuffSellers.com domain?

Should I host each of the 100+ *ForSale.com domain names individually, so they can all have a page (or a few pages) that contains meta tags with content specific to that domain?

If hosting each of the domain individually is the best option, should I go with a dedicated server, or a shared account that allows multiple domains?

Is there some other solution that I'm not thinking of?


The client will probably be adding more domains as time goes by, so I want to make it as simple as possible to make the *ForSale.com "sites" indexable and add new domains that will redirect properly. Ideally, it will all be automated with PHP so he can do this on his own. So, naturally, I'd prefer the simplest solution. Again, high search engine ranking is the primary concern (preferably without resorting to using spam techniques), cost is less of a concern.


Thanks for the help!

-Geoff



BTW, those aren't the real domain names. ;)

Geoff:

In a nutshell, all you need to do is host the main domain and have all the other domains parked to it. You need only to host one domain.

Different hosting companies charge differently per domain to be parked. Some charge, some do not. Check out with different companies to see what fits your needs best.

The other domains can be indexed individually, but you need to remember that you cannot guarantee anyone of having a top 20 listing (unless it is on a pay per click search tool service)

That's actually pointing, not parking*, that WeinBar is referring to. It might work. Search engines have become increasingly sophisticated in an effort to render useful results. That includes defeating many of the methods by which a single company or listing is unfairly represented.

Another possibility is that if the merchandise is split into different sections by category, code (and meta tag) the mainpage for each category according to keywords relevant to it, and submit those main category main pages to the search engines after setting it up so that the various domain names point to the respective category.




* parking is when a domain name is idle, or parked, on a server. Many registrars park domain names on their servers at no charge when you register with them. Pointing is when additional domains point to the same location as another, as when a .net and .org domain name point to the same location as the .com one.

Thanks for clearing that up. Semantics can be a killer these days. Too many words have the same or similar meanings.

Yes, you are correct. On our servers we call them parking, when in fact they should be called pointing (basically adding an A record to the DNS).

Thanks for the help so far, Duster and WeinBar.

There's one thing I forgot to mention. If a user goes to ChairsForSale.com and is redirect to StuffSellers.com, StuffSellers.com needs to know that the user got their via ChairsForSale.com.

Is this still possible with a domain pointer?

Are URLs valid, or just IP addresses? For instance, could ChairsForSale.com point to StuffSellers.com/index.php?site=chairsforsale or even better
StuffSellers.com/ChairsForSale/ ???

Also, there's something I'm still not clear on. Do the search engine spiders care if they get redirected from ChairsForSale.com to StuffSellers.com? Do they know that they're being redirected? Will they consider ChairsForSale.com and StuffSellers.com to be different sites?

Thanks,

-Geoff

Well, just remember one thing. You are not being redirected. You are having the domains point to the same IP address. Redirection is a whole other story.

Okay so it sounds like domain pointing won't work for me, since StuffSeller.com serves up modified content if a user arrives via *ForSale.com. Do you agree?

If that's the case, how does redirection fit into everything we've discussed?

Since search engines can't spider framed sites, it is best to submit a non-framed entrance page to them, one that can be spidered and indexed.

To understand why pointing may work where redirection won't, you have to understnad what happens when a URL is entered in a browser. Domain names are for people, IP addresses for computers.

When a URL is entered, the domain name is checked against DNS records. It is changed into the IP address and then directed to the host server. The host server then directs the inquiry (for a web page) to the appropriate location (directory) on the server.

With pointing, when someone enters "chairsforsale.com", it would get converted to the same IP address as "stuffforsale.com" When that inquiry arrives at the server, it is directed to the location and file specified. There is no redirection for a search engine to pick up.

Redirection is something different. People who want to have more than their share of entries in a search engine sometimes use it (and get banned for it). Say they own a domain "junkforsale.com" and want other domains to redirect to it. They could use other domains, like antiques.to and use services like mydomain.com.

What happens now is different. Someone enters "antiques.to" and it gets changed to an IP address. However, instead of going to the server, it says "forward to another address" and gets forwarded, or redirected, to the IP address for junkforsale.com.

The search engines can detect that forwarding and reject the entry because of it.

I hope you can see the difference between pointing and redirection as they are very different.

Okay, so it sounds like I need to host each domain individually in order to get better search engine rankings. Am I better of with dedicating hosting and a multiple domain shared account?

You're not paying attention. No more sleeping in class! It will be detention for sure if it happens again.

You should be able to achieve what you want with the domains pointing to the same account.

A dedicated server has many advantages, though is not necessary based on the domain pointing.

Originally posted by 3rdkynd
Thanks for the help so far, Duster and WeinBar.

There's one thing I forgot to mention. If a user goes to ChairsForSale.com and is redirect to StuffSellers.com, StuffSellers.com needs to know that the user got their via ChairsForSale.com.

Is this still possible with a domain pointer?


Ahem, Duster.

Thank you sid. Yes, server tracking logs can indicate where visits came form. Programs like WebTrends and Wusage, among others, have this capability.

If you just point the names to an IP the search engines will only index one set of keywords.

Best solution:

1) Create individual one page sites per each domain name.
2) On that single page is a summary of information pertinent to the good or service that that particular domain is marketing.
3) DO NOT use a meta refresh to direct these pages to the main domain. Instead, use a "enter here" link.
4) Add some links on this individual page to sites that have high popularity.
5) Use one of those keyword counting tools and look up the keyword page weight ratios for the different engines.

If you did all of the above correctly, you are now ready for the most important part to get good search engine ranking:

Submit the site and then...

Drop to your knees and begin praying.

This method worked for a client's site that I was able to get ranked #1 on Yahoo (on two separate keywords) for 30 days, a year and a half ago. For some reason, it just dropped off of Yahoo's index. Yahoo, in their usual wisdom stated that the site had never even been indexed.

Duster, I AM paying attention, I'm just not explaining myself fully.

In fact, here's what I learned:

Domain pointing won't accomplish what my client wants because if a user goes to ChairsForSale.com and is then redirected to StuffSellers.com, StuffSellers.com needs to serve up customized content on the fly based on the fact that the user came in via ChairsForSale.com. If all the *ForSale.com sites point to the same IP as StuffSellers.com, StuffSellers.com won't be able to do this.


I think WebReb's suggestion is right on the money. Thanks, WebReb.

[Edited by 3rdkynd on 03-01-2001 at 11:47 AM]

Your explanation was piecemeal. Now that we know all you want to accomplish, we can offer the appropriate solution.

Web Reb is mistaken on the IP address issue. The proof is that many unrelated domains share the same IP address and get indexed by serch engines with different sets of key words. However, in the context I believe he meant (1 entry page for all domains), he would be correct. If you had the keywords for 100+ domains on one page, you'll only get a few of them in, not all, and it will affect search engine indexing for most of the domains.

Here's how you can work it. Don't take the directory structure too literally as it will vary from one server to another

directory structure

/home/stuffforsale/www (document root directory for stuffforsale.com or stuffsellers.com)

/home/stuffforsale/www/chairs
/home/stuffforsale/www/tables
/home/stuffforsale/www/desks

domain names

StuffSellers.com goes to/home/stuffforsale/www

ChairsForSale.com goes to /home/stuffforsale/www/chairs

TablesForSale.com goes to/home/stuffforsale/www/tables

DesksForSale.com /home/stuffforsale/www/desks

As I said in the second paragraph of my first post here, prepare a main (index) page for each category with keywords appropriate for that category.

This method will accomplish what you want, both in search engine indexing and delivering customized content.

If the sites start attracting any appreciable traffic, you will want to move to a dedicated server. Even though you would have 1 account under shared server, it's really more like the 100+ since each domain name wouldbe attracting traffic separately and could rapidly cause an excessive use of resources for the one account. In other words, you'd be using a disproportionate share of resources for the one account.



[Edited by Duster on 03-02-2001 at 12:19 PM]

That sounds good, but I'm still confused. It's not clear to me what technical stuff is happening behind the scenes.

First, is this an example of parking, pointing, or something else?

Second, how exactly (or even roughly) do I go about setting this kind of thing up? I just don't understand where the association is made between the domain name, ChairsForSale.com, and the directory /home/stuffforsale/www/chairs. Is all this set on the web server that hosts the domain, like in Apache's httpd.conf file, for instance? Is it something the web host has to set up?

Don't be overly concerned about what it's called. What it does is most important. If you read the definition of parking, you'll have the answer to that question. Whether it is pointing could vary by individual definition (I don't consider it pointing as each domain is going to a different location).

As far as how it works, read above where I explain what happens behind the scenes again.

It seems to be sinking in as you came up with the answer to your question. You're less confused than you thought.

Yes, it is the httpd.conf that would direct each of those domains to the proper location (directory) on the hard drive, regardless of whether they are under the same master directory or not. It looks like you were paying attention after all ;)

It is something the host generally sets up.

Essentially you are having each domain name point to a separate subdirectory on your main account. There are several hosts that will allow you to host multiple accounts within your main account. I would offer one additional caution when you set this up. While it is true search engines index many sites that reside on the same each with their own keywords, they do not like it if too many similar pages come from the same IP (like for example your 100 domains each with an index page. So I would suggest splitting the domains up among several IPs so that you are not identified as spamming the search engines. A safe route would be say five IPs with 20 domains pointing to subdirectories on each IP address. Given the cost of setting this up I would also suggest considering a dedicated server such as a RAQ where you could set the whole thing up. Just my 2 cents...

Wow, I think I actually understand now. Thanks for sticking with me, Duster. And thanks to everyone else that gave advice.

MadMax82, how much would it cost per month (very roughly) to do 5 IPs on a base-level dedicated server at an average host? What's the consensus on who's a good dedicated server hosts?


[Edited by 3rdkynd on 03-02-2001 at 04:51 PM]

I think you should be able to get a RAQ3 for about $100 per month or so. There are several RAQ providers and others that I believe offer this service if you do a search. I frankly do not have enough experience with RAQs to make a qualified recommendation yet. Good luck!

I'm glad to help (when I can) those who are willing to think. I tend to avoid those who want to be spoon fed even the simplest of answers. You can tell they have not made (and likely won't make) any effort to learn.

A lot of technical information is written in technical terms and it helps when someone can put it in simple terms. I'm glad if I was able to do that for you.

As far as your other questions, it's going to depend on the host you select. Some charge for additional IP addresses, and some don't. Some charge a lot more for them, some charge a more nominal amount.

On a side note, I wouldn't rely too heavily on search engines. See the information on the following links for why:

http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/finding.html
http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/searchengines.html

[Edited by Duster on 03-02-2001 at 06:46 PM]

Hey Duster,

Nice link. I have always wanted that info but being somewhat cheap I did not want to pay for it!

Okay, hopefully this is my last question, which I'm afraid is probably really lame.

In a dedicated hosting situation, does the web host manage the server, or do you? In other words, do I need to worry about installing, updating, and/or configuring the software on the server? Or is it like being on a shared account, but with less restrictions?

Actually it is much better to ask. If you go with a dedicated server where you lease the server from say 4webspace then you will be responsible for installing software updates, patches, etc. They will provide some technical support such as rebooting the machine and they will fix some things that you mess up (often at a fee) so you need to have at least some idea of what you are doing. If you negotiate a deal with a host who simply sets this up for you by providing a couple of IPs and the accounts then they will do a whole lot more hand holding. If you are unsure you can always start off with a couple of accounts and then go for a full dedicated server in a couple of months when your skills have developed. I would also imagine that depending on the type of site you are setting up it will take a little while for your traffic to become a significant burden on the server, especially if your customer is relying significantly on search engine placement for traffic as that takes time. Unless of course you have some sort of Brittany Spears fan club site! Just my 2 cents...

POST REMOVED.. I FORGOT THE RULES

[Edited by IDN on 03-03-2001 at 02:14 PM]

You might look into ZoneEdit's services, I believe you can even get custom nameservers (if that matters). I am using thme for my domains and it works fine (the free version)