Is it really that hard for people to learn languages like ASP, PHP, & Perl?
It seems so easy to me, but for others can be extremely difficult to understand.

I just see so many people looking for little scripts that could be written from scratch in little time and I don't understand why they don't just learn how.

Or does programming require a certain way of thinking that many people don't have? Just curious.

I remember reading a study recently that showed that half of people (even those who chose to take a CS course) simply couldn't think about mathematical concepts, or even variables, with the consistency needed to understand computer programming. Couldn't find it just now with a quick Google, but I remember it was a PDF. Chances are it was linked from Slashdot or somewhere.

I remember reading a study recently that showed that half of people (even those who chose to take a CS course) simply couldn't think about mathematical concepts, or even variables, with the consistency needed to understand computer programming. Couldn't find it just now with a quick Google, but I remember it was a PDF. Chances are it was linked from Slashdot or somewhere.

I guess that makes sense. Personally I've always thought a bit differently than others. I remember being mocked in math class for my methods of solving problems, even tough I still came up with the same solution. In my mind what I was doing was so much easier, but even the teacher had a hard time understanding my methods.

Yeah, me too.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd lump Perl in with PHP and ASP... I mean, it's not a difficult language conceptually, but its syntax often looks like swear words censored from a cartoon :stickout:

I think programming just requires your brain to work a certain way. I believe that being detail-oriented and having the ability to think abstractly are two qualities that have to be in place before you can learn to be a good programmer.

I think programming just requires your brain to work a certain way.

Defiantly.

My mind works far differently from most people I met. Where they see one thing I look at it from a different point of view and get something totally different.

I can do arithmetic of binary or hex values just as easily as with decimal, and I'm usually faster than most with decimal anyway.. but I can't spell to save my life.

I can pick up a new computer language in minutes but have been trying to learn Spanish for about two years now. I can just about order some food for my self and ask the way home.

If someone describes a process or program they want implemented I know instantly how we'll be implementing it and already know the best relational database schema to use. I was always stunned in Computer Science classes when people struggled to normalise data, as it's always been as straight forward as I can imagine.

Recently my spelling has improved and things don't have the red squiggles under them any more, I just hope it's not my mind turning "normal."

If you know the fundamentals of programming (e.g., algorithm development, task separation, data structures, bounds checking, etc.), then you can apply those basics to any language. As long as you are willing to learn the syntax of a language, you will be able to program almost any task in whatever language you want to. Granted, some languages are better suited for certain tasks, but the theory is the same. (Technically you can write a web server using shell script, but it isn't exactly optimal.)

Learning a programming language is easy. Learning how to effectively create properly working code requires a lot more knowledge. Those with only the basic skills can hack together a rough script that barely works. With more knowledge you can write a fool-proof, security-hardened, more efficient version.

As has been mentioned different people look at things different ways. This goes for programmers too.

I took a Java class a few years back, and we had a seasoned COBOL programmer from an automotive company in the class (he was 50 years at the time). This man worked harder than anybody else in the class by far but he still had to drop it. He simply couldn't grasp how to program in an object orientated language.

PHP Seems Very Easy To Me
Didn't Tried ASP Or .net Yet

This is the reason for new programming para-dig-em's.

There is a finite proportion of the population that understands programming intuitively. Yet, the demand for their output has grown exponentially. Don't forget, at one time it was thought that a few hundred programmers in white coats would be all that would ever be required to run the world's computers.

The pitch from the industry is to increase "productivity" by adopting new programming languages and methodologies.

That has never worked in any craft and will not work here either. You just get sweatshops that create inferior product in greater quantity at top speed.

Programmers should be viewed like atheletes. Signing bonues, multi-million dollar contracts, sponsorship money, free agency! :)

Programmers should be viewed like atheletes. Signing bonues, multi-million dollar contracts, sponsorship money, free agency! :)

That already happens in game development industry for years now ;)

Learning how do do small tasks with programing languages is easy (with the tools and information available today). Anyone can do this. However, it looks scary on the outside, and most people simply choose not to put effort in it.

As mentioned above, learning how to do things effectively and consistently is much harder. It requires certain mindset.

These two facts are (part of the) the reason why we are stuck with so much crappy PHP software.

Some people are just not programming-minded. It will take me hours to write a basic script, but I will do it. On the other hand, it will take me less than an hour to build a stunning looking graphics template for a website, and I love doing it where as programming is something I cannot stand doing for a long time.
Have you also noticed that many of the best, most complex scripts appear on websites that have a horrible design-component and poorly written documentation? Where as many great looking sites with plenty of documentation deliver poorly coded scripts. This has been an interesting observation in my experience.

I'd fall into the complex scripts with **** documentation category :P

each one will always have some talent and skill.

programming is usually easy for people with good with logical and mathematical grasp, but not always. I'd classify it as a skill as well but having a gift in logic and math will make or break the learning/"using of" process.

again, different strokes for different folks ...

Is it really that hard for people to learn languages like ASP, PHP, & Perl?
It seems so easy to me, but for others can be extremely difficult to understand.

I just see so many people looking for little scripts that could be written from scratch in little time and I don't understand why they don't just learn how.

Or does programming require a certain way of thinking that many people don't have? Just curious.

So, is it really that hard not to know why some cannot program? ;)
we all have different skills, don't we? :)

Learning how do do small tasks with programing languages is easy (with the tools and information available today). Anyone can do this. However, it looks scary on the outside, and most people simply choose not to put effort in it.

As mentioned above, learning how to do things effectively and consistently is much harder. It requires certain mindset.

These two facts are (part of the) the reason why we are stuck with so much crappy PHP software.

I'll agree that doing things effectively with consistently is the hardest part. But it's very possible with the right mindset. When I started taking CS courses it was extremely difficult for me to abandon many of my "poor methods" and learn to do things a completely different way.

A simple script is one thing, but distributable software is a whole other ball park.