Hi Guys

I just wanted to get some feedback on this.

I followed a link to a site hosted on one of eUKHost's VPS servers (I wont give you the link because I know you'll just follow it and not read the rest of the post!) which is hosting some pretty questionable material. Basically, there are lots of videos on there that poke fun at what we call in Glasgow 'neds' (otherwise known as chavs in the rest of the UK or... hmmm... I suppose, red necks in the US? Not sure what you guys call them) Anyway, the videos are pretty funny but there are also a large number of videos that show neds kicking the sh*t out of people and each other, smashing up cars and property in and around Glasgow. We do have a real crime problem in Glasgow with most incidences of all kinds of crime being double the average for the rest of the country so I'm not particularly happy about seeing this material having a forum on the web and, with eUKHost being based in the UK, there is the issue of the questionable legality of it too.

I emailed support/abuse at eUKHost to bring the site to their attention and got this reply:
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From: support@eukhost.com
Subject: [ #PRS-87943-119]: Website video depicting criminal activity
Date: 16 September 2007 03:39:44 BDT
To: abuse@eukhost.com, rosslittle@gmail.com
Reply-To: support@eukhost.com

Hello Ross,

The site is hosted on one of our VPS client. We have forwarded your complaint to him, He will contact you regarding this issue.

Please do revert back to us in case of any queries, we would be glad to further assist you in this regard.

Regards,
Matthew,
Support Team.
---------------

So essentially, eUKHost aren't taking responsibility for the material served by their machines or for complaints about that content. Secondly, by releasing my email address to their client, they may well have committed a data protection breach.

So, what do people think of this? Any similar experiences? Best to contact the police ragarding the material?

Cheers

Ross

PS. the site is www.wido.co.uk

Hey Ross,

I'm not sure if the content is illegal but it is definately objectionable. A reason the eUKHost haven't just terminated the account could be due to respect for their customers, it isn't fair on a site owner for their site to get pulled if they haven't been notified of the problem. If they are notified and it is still not stopped, then yes the responsibility should fall onto the hosting provider to remove it or close the site.

As to the breach of the data protection act, it's a bit of a grey area. As best as I can remember, the data would have to identify the individual. So if you happened to of had your full name or address in the email, then this could possibly be a breach of the DPA. Either way it is very bad to forward an indiviuals email address without their prior consent.

Either way it is very bad to forward an indiviuals email address without their prior consent.

That appears to be pretty standard in Canada and the USA in regards to providers handling abuse complaints.

For example, if I sent a DMCA (copyright) notice to one of the major dedicated server providers, they will forward that notice to the customer including all of my personal information. I don't see anything wrong with that, as there has to be some level of accountability to lower the number of fraudulent abuse complaints.

Hi Folks

Thanks for the feedback.

Pat H, we have a piece of legislation here in the UK called the Data Protection Act which would prohibit information identitifying me as an individual from being given to the providers client. I don't know if you have something similar in the US. My full name was in my email address which therefore identifies me personally and should not have been passed on.

Secondly, my complaint was not for the providers client but against him. By complaining about the content to the hosting provider I was essentially performing two functions: a) to bring legally questionable content to their attention and b) to appeal to them to examine this content in the context of their ToS. I wasn't asking the webmaster to police his own content - that would be quite ridiculous, but I was bringing the content to the attention of the service provider. My complaint was with the service provider not their client.

I wasn't seeking to begin legal proceedings, as in issuing a DMCA notice, and therefore there was no legitimate business reason why my personal data should have been passed on to the provider's client. In the UK the data protection act allows for certain activities if there is a legitimate business reason, which there was not.

I suppose it comes down to who is responsible for content on a service providers machines. Clearly, there is an argument that large hosts may not be capable of policing the vast amount of content on their machines even if they tried. I would imagine though, that once legally questionable material has been brought to the attention of the host that it now is their responsibility.

Anyone know what the situation is in the UK?

Cheers


Ross

Maybe you should try and find a email for your local police force.

Drop them an email with the URL to the site and ask them if its illegal or not.

The material itself isn't illegal, how can it be? However, I'm sure the local police force would find it useful.

My tuppenceworth...

The host themselves is probably not liable, they are acting as a 'mere conduit' which means that they are merely transmitting information. Their TOS however would in all probability preclude offensive, inciteful, racist etc etc material and would enable them to take down a site that is in their opinion objectionable. The last item in their TOS reserves the right to suspend or terminate services at their sole discretion - fairly standard stuff.

One host I was with for a while scanned their clients content for dodgy keywords and it raised a few eyebrows when I created a site for a client: dr-bellend.com (a geek site and not porn)!!

However as eukhost have in effect been 'put on notice' of material that visitors consider offensive, then they should at the very least take some action to investigate it, I don't doubt they will or have.

The question is far deeper than just is it illegal material. Is the material reportage in journalistic terms, or is it glorifying and inciting others to commit acts of violence? These seem to be questions that people far cleverer than us have difficulty getting their heads round.

I extremely highly doubt that its illegal to host things videos that depict crime, or else the show " Police, Camera, Action" would be illegal as it depicts crimes in progress. It would be quite arguable in court about passing the email on, as they could say "I didn't know it linked to his real name". Also the employee that passed it on could be remote based, and the same laws don't apply there. Also the person on the VPS could be a completely different host where again you have the possibility that they aren't in UK or person who passed on wasn't from the UK. If there isn't a rule in the ToS of the provider against displaying such material, then there is nothing you can do other than NOT VISIT THE WEBSITE. Just because something offends you DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE IS OFFENDED. If you are offended DISCONTINUE VISITING THE SITE. That is what I do when a website offends me, and it works very well. Anyone can publish the material their hosting providers allow, the choice is up to you whether you sit there and complain endlessly to NO avail or to simply ignore the existence of the website.

Not Technical. Moved.

Hi Ross,

I completely understand your concern. Coming from a family who lived in the Pollok and Govan area for a number of years, I have faced the violence first hand and I don't believe it's a laughing matter. These video sites only promote crime and give a bad imagine of a decent city.

Sadly, videos promoting such violence are legal, however making a complaint at your local police station may make them aware of the site so that they can keep an eye on it for future crimes.

In terms of breaching the data protection act, this is correct. Your not allowed to pass on personal information regarding without gaining permission. However I wouldn't make a big deal of it, as his intentions have been to sort an issue out with you.