is it becuase they are a directly under ICANN?

The market value has decreased within the past year or so.

ICANN accredited registrars pay their accredation fees and then $6 a domain year to Verisign for CNO domains.

They they sell for whatever profit they think they need to keep their business solvent.

eNom, GoDaddy, and a few others believe they can make a go of it for very little actual profit per domain name.

Time will tell.

-t

ok. thats waht i tought. thats for confirming.

They're going for volume. I would imagine Enom is gaining huge ground here with the amount of resellers they're getting. Like thewitt said "Time will tell." :)

The main concern at the moment seems to be what to do about expiring domain names. I have seen some very interesting discussions about this topc around, and I don't really understand all of the ramifications except that our old buddies Verisign/Netsol are (surprise! surprise!) trying to pull one over everybody else, even as far as defying ICANN.

My personal experience with godaddy suggests that they do it by skimping with support, they advertise and sell specials like email forwarding which then do not work, and of course you can't get support (I've been waiting over 48 hours, they say they will get back to you in 24).

Some places you get a good price and good service. Unfortunately I don't think godaddy is one of these. I only recently transferred to them, and I am looking for a new registrar.

I have just read some threads about them not letting you transfer domains away (of course they say you can, but they simply don't do it) -- bad news!

I prefer an eNom reseller that either uses eNom's interface to begin with or gives you access to your domain through access.enom.com

I want reliability, not some fancy proprietary interface.

I've been with opensrs for a while... I just checked out eNom with all the mentioning I keep seeing. Their site shows retail prices for com/net for $29.95? Are resellers getting HUGE discounts or something? I just don't see paying 3 times as much as I am now. I'm not trying to bash, I just think Imust be missing something. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

Originally posted by labgeek
I've been with opensrs for a while... I just checked out eNom with all the mentioning I keep seeing. Their site shows retail prices for com/net for $29.95? Are resellers getting HUGE discounts or something? I just don't see paying 3 times as much as I am now. I'm not trying to bash, I just think Imust be missing something. Please enlighten me. Thanks.
Someone gave me an offer for domains at $7.45 with $29.95 setup if I remember correctly. PM me if you want the URL.
[EDIT]
The URL is below :D

Originally posted by labgeek
I just checked out eNom with all the mentioning I keep seeing. Their site shows retail prices for com/net for $29.95? Are resellers getting HUGE discounts or something?

Yes. eNom resellers are able to get domains for VERY reduced prices.

Cheers!

as low as 6.95$ if you prepay for 1 grand

Originally posted by apollo
as low as 6.95$ if you prepay for 1 grand

No need for that! Most eNom resellers will give you a very low price without any prepayment required.

There are eNom resellers with good service track records here offering under $9 domain name registration.

Originally posted by labgeek
I've been with opensrs for a while... I just checked out eNom with all the mentioning I keep seeing. Their site shows retail prices for com/net for $29.95? Are resellers getting HUGE discounts or something

It's been mostly answered, that is eNom's Retail price. Thier wholesale prices to resellers is much (much) lower.

I think eNom has a pretty good business model. Their retail price is quite high, but some people will register directly with them. By keeping thier prices high they do not compete with their resellers. By having resellers do most of the sales (an assumption on my part) they can transfer a lot of the support to the resellers. If the reseller can't answer the question, you can always then contact eNom (or even better, the reseller can do it for you).

Just to to the special offers forum and you'll see lots of offers from eNom resellers.

Frank

Originally posted by xor
My personal experience with godaddy suggests that they do it by skimping with support, they advertise and sell specials like email forwarding which then do not work, and of course you can't get support (I've been waiting over 48 hours, they say they will get back to you in 24).

Some places you get a good price and good service. Unfortunately I don't think godaddy is one of these. I only recently transferred to them, and I am looking for a new registrar.

I have just read some threads about them not letting you transfer domains away (of course they say you can, but they simply don't do it) -- bad news! That's odd, GoDaddy support has been good to me. Why don't you call them?

Originally posted by iamdave
That's odd, GoDaddy support has been good to me. Why don't you call them?

I would except that I am in New Zealand and it would be very expensive, also the time difference (which isn't too terrible).

I have noticed that most of these cheap resellers say that they can do whatever this wish with your personal information (i.e. sell it to internet marketers).

taken from Go Daddy's Registration Agreement:
"You agree that, to the extent permitted by ICANN, Go Daddy may make use of the publicly available information you provided during the registration process. "

here is another example:
"further agree and acknowledge that eNom may make publicly available, or directly available to third party vendors, some, or all, of the domain name registration information you provide, for purposes of inspection (such as through our "whois" service) or for targeted marketing and other purposes as required or permitted by ICANN and applicable laws. "

Question - Has anyone every received unsolicted e-mail from registering with Go Daddy? Or do you just use a generic e-mail, address for the registration?

enom has spammed around ... some time ago. I got a few messages myself (actually, I didn't even have a domain with them..)..

can't comment on godaddy yet

Originally posted by j_rumba

Question - Has anyone every received unsolicted e-mail from registering with Go Daddy? Or do you just use a generic e-mail, address for the registration?

I don't think this is a Go Daddy/eNom problem.

I think everyone who has registered a domain gets spam because of it. You have to enter a "valid" email address for the admin/billing contact. All of the registrars that I have used send emails to the billing contact to remind them to renew and send transfer confirmations to the admin contact. So if you use a generic email address, it still nees to work.

Frank

This is not about whois mining and associated SPAM, it's about the registrar selling your name on a list to marketing groups.

There certainly are registrars who do this.

We have had registrants transfer their domains to us because of this practice at other registrars.

Many people don't seem to care, but information provided both as public whois data and as private "account" data appears to be vulnerable to this additional service at some registrars.

-t

Originally posted by apollo
enom has spammed around ... some time ago. I got a few messages myself (actually, I didn't even have a domain with them..)
You are mistaken. People have been spammed at email addresses which they list in their eNom WHOIS record because the spammer mined it from same -- without eNom's knowledge or blessing, of course. But no one has ever been spammed by eNom itself -- or by anyone with eNom's knowledge or blessing. Trust me. eNom does occasionally send service announcements to resellers -- for example, back when eNom first created a relationship with the now-defunct 1GlobalPlace, eNom sent an email announceing it to all its resellers. But that hardly qualifies as spam. Actually, as I believe any eNom reseller will attest, eNom sends out remarkably little email to its resellers. And none to its registrants that I know of.
Originally posted by thewitt
This is not about whois mining and associated SPAM, it's about the registrar selling your name on a list to marketing groups.
You are categorically correct. But, whichever registrars you're thinking of (and I, too, can think of a few), eNom does not happen to be one of them.

Just for the record.

Originally posted by DesElms
You are categorically correct. But, whichever registrars you're thinking of (and I, too, can think of a few), eNom does not happen to be one of them.

Just for the record.
Unless it has recently been changed, the eNom TOS specifically grants them the ability to sell your information to third party marketing firms...

-t

Originally posted by thewitt
Unless it has recently been changed, the eNom TOS specifically grants them the ability to sell your information to third party marketing firms...
But they don't.

I write my contracts that way, too, if I can -- i.e., I include as many clauses as possible that allow me to get away with as much as I possibly can, were I of a mind to. But just because we can do a thing does not necessarily mean that we should. And eNom doesn't -- even though it could.

That's all I was saying.

Originally posted by DesElms
But they don't.
I'm not sure how you can make this statement - unless you are representing eNom here.

I believe they do, have, and will continue to do so based on my discussions with their sales representative when I was thinking about reselling for them. She clearly stated that this is a significant source of income and they would not relinquish the right to sell the contact information of my customers to third party marketing organizations. We spoke on the phone about this issue at length, as I was not prepared to allow this behavior. It ultimately cost them the business relationship with us, and I was very clear about this in my conversations with their sales representative.

-t

Originally posted by thewitt
I'm not sure how you can make this statement - unless you are representing eNom here.

I believe they do, have, and will continue to do so based on my discussions with their sales representative when I was thinking about reselling for them. She clearly stated that this is a significant source of income and they would not relinquish the right to sell the contact information of my customers to third party marketing organizations. We spoke on the phone about this issue at length, as I was not prepared to allow this behavior. It ultimately cost them the business relationship with us, and I was very clear about this in my conversations with their sales representative.
Did you actually read the paragraph I wrote after "but they don't" (which clearly responds to everything you've written here), or are we just beating this issue for fun?

eNom can sell your info, pursuant to its Terms of Service (TOS) agreement. But it doesn't -- or at least so I've been told by people a heck of a lot higher-up in eNom's chain of command than your aforementioned sales representative. It is not a "significant source of [eNom's] income" to sell individually identifiable contact data to third party marketing firms -- though, pursuant to its TOS, it could if it wanted to. I know that eNom provides aggregate marketing data to others -- trend data and whatnot -- but nothing that contains anyone's email address.

Of course I recognize that that could change at any moment -- even as I'm writing this. And after personally checking-out a couple of things after this thread began, I will tell you that I am now of the opinion that eNom may (and the operative word, here, is "may") actually have done that sort of thing (i.e., sold individually-identifiable data to third parties) briefly at some point in its distant past. And if that's true (and I'm having trouble verifying it), then I agree that that's awful. And if it starting happening at this point, I must say that that, if you will pardon the vernacular, would be a big-ass problem! HUGE, in my opinion! And unacceptable.

But it is not something that eNom does these days. And it hasn't done anything like that (that is, if it ever even did do anything like that) for quite some time. From my discussions with them, it's pretty clear that eNom is now of the opinion that doing such things is short-sighted and inadvisable on all sorts of levels and for all sorts of reasons with which we would all agree.

Naturally I would prefer that eNom would take a firm and unambiguous stance on the matter and simply declare in its TOS that it would never do such a thing. I think we'd all feel more comfortable with that and, as you've stated, you might be doing business with eNom today if that were the case. But, as someone who also believes in the notion of a person writing into his contracts as much flexibility and "wiggle room" for himself as he can -- even if he has no intention of actually using it -- I, personally, am not alarmed by eNom's TOS, given what I know about its true feelings on the matter.

All that having been said, I also believe in the wisdom of the old maxim "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware). And so, pursuant thereto, it was certainly not unreasonable for you to read those words in eNom's TOS and to subsequently decide that you didn't want to take a chance on eNom's unstated good intentions and, instead, presume its words as stated in its TOS to be its official position -- which, of course, you found untenable. So you took your business elsewhere. That's perfectly sound business thinking and I do not fault you for it one bit. Not one bit!

In fact, were I asked to make a decision like that on behalf of a client -- especially one who had stated to me the importance of either never being spammed, or never having individually-identifiable data sold to third parties, as a consequence of his doing business with eNom -- then I'm afraid I might very well make the same decision as you did. After all, in the absence of a rider or something that supersedes it, the language of the TOS governs the business relationship. And if eNom is unwilling to ensure in said TOS (or superseding written language) that that which my client fears most would never become an eventuality were my client to do business with them, then as a consultant I could not ethically recommend that he do so. And I wouldn't. So I completely understand what you're saying. Completely.

But my discussions with eNom upper management has convinced me that, as a practical matter, it is a non-issue. And so I'm willing to take a risk that, perhaps, I could not recommend that others take were they paying me to watch out for their best interests. I have a similar attitude about motorcyling. For the entire quarter of a century that I've been riding, I've always been far more willing to do daring things on the bike when I'm alone (and also far from any other traffic or persons, I might add) than I am when I have a passenger. In fact, with a passenger, I'm a totally different, much safer sort of rider. I am willing to assume certain risks on behalf of just me that I am not willing to inflict on others. That is an oft-repeated theme in my life.

But the bottom line, here, is that anyone doing business with eNom really need not, in my opinion, fear being spammed by them or any third party using eNom-provided data. And, again, I confess, that could change at any moment. As long as eNom's TOS says they could do it if they wanted to, that will always be the case. But, as long as eNom is being run by its current management, I honestly don't believe it will. And that's all I've been saying in this thread.

However, that phrase "as long as eNom is being run by its current management" is another factor to consider. Companies get bought and sold all the time. And when a company is sold its new owners often pursue opportunities provided by language such as we see in eNom's TOS regarding this matter. In fact, for some buyers of companies flexible language like that can be a real selling point. So, were eNom to be purchased, I concede that what I'm writing here about not having to worry about being spammed by eNom or having one's individually-identifiable data sold to third parties could turn around in a big hurry.

But, knowing what I know about eNom and its ownership, I highly doubt that being sold is anywhere in eNom's near or distant future. The company's doing just fine, in case you hadn't noticed -- far exceeding expectations now. And its owners are in it for the longhaul -- or so it seems. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the fortunes of business and how things we believe could never change do anyway. So who really knows. But given all the factors of which I'm aware, all things considered, I'm willing to take the chance with eNom without much fear or worry. I'm happy, and I believe anyone -- including yourself -- who gave eNom a try would be as well.

I hope that helped.

Originally posted by thewitt
This is not about whois mining and associated SPAM, it's about the registrar selling your name on a list to marketing groups.

There certainly are registrars who do this.

We have had registrants transfer their domains to us because of this practice at other registrars.
-t
Can you name names? :)

Originally posted by SpocksBrain
Can you name names? :) It really starts to sound like bashing the competition, so I prefer not to do so.

Let's just say I looked long and hard at the available ICANN registrars to partner with for a serious domain registration business (a real business with real employees and a viable business plan). I chose OpenSRS based on their position in the market, their reputation, and their business practices. It was this research that led me to the various Terms of Service, and discussions with representatives of each company before making the decision for my company.

We don't register domains on the side. We probably spend more money in direct advertising each month than most resellers will gross in a year of business in sub-$10 domains.

OpenSRS was the only registrar who would guarantee us that our customer information would stay private, and that they, or their chosen third party marketing organization, would not sell to our customers.

I spoke with a representative from every ICANN registrar who offered reseller services who was in business in October of 2001, and most who have started up since that time.

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

-t

Well, I wanted to check out GoDaddy, and registered a Domain Name with them, and voila... I magically received SPAM, it is the first time I have ever recieved SPAM on this account (it is a specific alias I set up to see if it would happen with this registration).

So I guess GoDaddy does sell your info when you register.

Originally posted by j_rumba
Well, I wanted to check out GoDaddy, and registered a Domain Name with them, and voila... I magically received SPAM, it is the first time I have ever recieved SPAM on this account (it is a specific alias I set up to see if it would happen with this registration).

So I guess GoDaddy does sell your info when you register.
Your "Subject:" line says you got the spam from GoDaddy. But then the rest of your message suggests it came from a third party. So which is it?

And, for what it's worth, this is not a new complaint from GoDaddy customers. Search these forums and you'll find postings from others who have been spammed either by GoDaddy or by those to which GoDaddy appears to have released their data.

I, personally, find it hard to believe that even GoDaddy engages in such activities. It would not surprise me to learn that some spammer has simply learned how to successfully datamine GoDaddy's WHOIS information without GoDaddy's permission. But I could be wrong. Who knows... maybe GoDaddy is an unconscionable spammer. I don't use them -- for a variety of reasons, possible spamming activity being only one of them. So I cannot say for sure what's going on there. But the complaint, for what it's worth, has been made in these forums before -- and numerous times.

When I registered another domain name at another reseller, I have never received any e-mail to that "contact" address. Their TOS makes no mention of selling your info, unlike GoDaddy's.

This topic was originally how can godaddy charge $8.95 a domain. It's actually pretty easy.

Verisign charges $6.00 per their contract with ICANN for all CNO(.com/.net/.org) domains. ICANN charges the registrars, a fee of about 25 cents a domain per year, this fee varies. So their initial cost is $6.25 a domain.

This leaves them with a $2.70 profit as of right now.

Then let's add in CC processing fees, let's say 50 cents per domain.

They now have $2.20 profit.

Add in expenses, godaddy now has 140+ employees if I remember correctly, so let's say $1.25 per domain for that.

This leaves them with $.95 a domain.

I also read that they are selling 4-5k domains a day. So they are making roughly $4750 on domain sales a day.

Enom is basically the same way. But they both have some options in their TOS that you should look at.

All domains will automatically be renewed 30 days before they expire. They will attempt to charge your credit card 30 days before the domain expires, and if they can charge it, they will renew your domain. Without you even saying yes. And do you think you will get the $8.95 renewal rate? :rolleyes:

But most registrars make their money on value added services, add-ons, other crap, whatever you want to call it. That's where the money is made. Not in domains anymore. If I can sell somebody a POP account when they are buying their domain, I've tripled my profit.

With godaddy, if they get somebody to buy their stock art, it's probably 100% profit at $29.95. It would take them 35 domains to make that much profit.

The one I always love is srsplus.com. They were owned by .tv, and .tv was bought by Verisign. With them you can buy domains for $6.00. But read the details.

See ya

Donny

140 employees at a loaded cost of $60k (that's roughtly a $35k /yr salary - which no one in their right mind would take) at your gross profit figure would require 6.7M domains a year, or 560k domains a month.

Their salary numbers are probably close to $90k loaded costs, which would mean, at your numbers, they would have to sell about 840k domains a month.

By your numbers they are selling only 150,000 domains a month - so they are far short of anything resembling a profit.

If your $1.25 per domain for employee and 5k domain sales a day number is correct, they are collecting a grand total of $187k a month to pay salaries. For 140 employees this would mean a loaded payroll expense of $1339 per employee - after benefits and taxes that would amount to $800 a month. I won't work for $800 a month, will you?

-t

Verisign charges $6.00 per their contract with ICANN for all CNO(.com/.net/.org) domains. ICANN charges the registrars, a fee of about 25 cents a domain per year, this fee varies. So their initial cost is $6.25 a domain.

Do versign charge this $6 per year? And do ICANN charge their 25 cents every year?

I'm wondering how GoDaddy can charge a $7.95 transfer fee? If Versign charge $6 as a one of, then they are making more money with the transfer fee. If ICANN's charge of 25 cents is a one of, then they are making a lot less on transfers.

However if £6.25 is charged every year, they are making a lot less on transfer charges.

What is the marketing ploy behind the $7.95 transfer charge?

First of all I definitely don't work for either godaddy or enom.

Most of the information I gave is public knowledge, look at the snapnames report and http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26603.html and you will see exactly what I mean.

Now one thing to consider godaddy does have other businesses, like tax software. And a few years ago Bob Parsons got like 70 million for his tax software. So the man has money.

And your question about working for $800 a month. Bob Parson pays himself $5.15 a hour or $824 a month, before taxes. :confused: What's up with that?

Donny

bulk :)

Originally posted by esdjco
bulk :)
There really is not much hidden data here.

If you look at the State of the Domain Report, you will get a fairly accurate picture of the number of domains registered in a month. Even if it's off by as much as 30%, the numbers are telling.

Verisign Registry fees are $6 per CNO domain. ICANN gets annual accreditation fees. ICANN charges a variable fee as well based on how many domains you manage.

Average employee costs are available for regions of the country and include loaded costs - again these are average or mean costs and can certainly be different from company to company, but they are a pretty accurate place to start.

GoDaddy obviously does not have 140 employees being paid by their domain registration business, so there must be alternate sources of income there. I don't know anything about their other businesses, so it's certainly possible that they make their money off tax software and are just trying to figure out if it's possible to make money in the domain game. They certainly cannot afford 140 employees with their current margins and volume. If you assume they have $1.25 per domain name available for payroll (I think that's $100 too high by the way), they would be able to pay 25-30 people. If they really only have $0.25 for payroll, they are not paying anyone with domain sales revenue...

We've put the business plan together for ICANN accreditation ourselves, and it's not a cheap business plan. There is over a million dollars in infrastructure costs for constuction and maintenance of a registration database system with RRP interface, public whois, etc.

In our opinion, both GoDaddy and eNom are playing some sort of low price, loss leader game here to build up their client base, before raising their prices to where they actually will make a profit on this business. Other sub-$10 registrars have already raised their prices; GoDaddy and eNom are both going to be forced to do so at some point - the only question is when.

You cannot lose money and "make it up in volume" and with the competitive analysis work that we have done, we don't see that either company is making any money yet.

-t

What about renewal and transfer pricing?

If ICANN dont charge annual pricing for each domain, are they not making money here?

Sorry for the confusion.

Verisign Registry fees are $6 per domain for CNO domains.

ICANN fees are in addition to this - and are variable per year based on the total number of domains you manage.

The $6 per year fee is charged by Verisign Registry for new, renewal and transfered domains.

-t

Wow, interesting story... So you say all "below $10" registrars / resellers will raise their prices sooner or later???

Taken straight from GoDaddy:

"So, unless our domain costs increase, your renewal rates will be no higher than what you paid to register or transfer your domain name to us. "

So I assume this means unless Versign ever charges more than $6 per domian, GoDaddy will never raise their prices?

Originally posted by zoli
So you say all "below $10" registrars / resellers will raise their prices sooner or later???
Yeah, I was kinda' choking on that, too.

While I think that's certainly possible, it seems to me more likely that it would take a price increase from ICANN/Verisign for that to happen. eNom is sufficiently profitable. It has a smaller staff than you realize, perhaps. It's doing fine. And its parent is plenty diversified. So I don't think eNom is just sitting at the ready to raise prices as soon as it thinks it has milked the market for everything its worth, as you suggest.

That having been said, it is true that it's folly to attempt to make-up for lost margin with volume. Eventually, as the company's volume begins to fall off, the low profitability will dash its hopes of being able to properly fund the maintenance of the infrastructure necessary to support the business it already has. Knowing this, it's tempting and convenient to surmise that the only way out would be to raise prices. And there's some soundness to that logic, obviously. But there are other factors to consider as well, and price increases are not necessarily the only way around the problem.


Regarding another recent part of this thread... just FYI...

GoDaddy is a very bad registrar to have picked for the income/expense analysis. Bob Parsons used to own a company called Parsons Technologies, which was an extremely successful purveyor of first DOS and then Windows desktop applications. Its tax and accounting software was excellent and competed quite nicely, thankyouverymuch, with what most people would consider to be the really "big" players in the tax and accounting software business today. Parsons's software needed make no apologies to anyone for its quality. The company also had an excellent non-profit/church software package that, when coupled with its accounting software, was a powerful tool. And it had a basketload of other software titles -- some really unusual and useful stuff. I used to love getting its catalogs in the mail.

So the domain registration segment of Parsons's business had, and continues to have, a fairly strong financial underpinning derived from non-domain-registration-related business. And the employees he has are not all -- or even mostly -- devoted to that part of the business. So the math in the earlier analysis just doesn't work out.

Domain Name Renewals. If you do not wish to renew a domain name, you agree to cancel your domain name by logging into your account and canceling the domain name through the Manage Your Account page. Email notification to Go Daddy will not constitute proper notice of your desire not to renew. In the absence of your affirmative cancellation of a domain name you do not wish to renew, Go Daddy will automatically renew, for a period of one year, any domain name that is up for renewal and will charge the credit card you have on file with Go Daddy, at Go Daddy's then current rates. Domain name renewals will be non refundable. If for any reason Go Daddy is not able to charge the credit card you have on file, and you fail to respond to our notices, your domain name registration will expire. It is your responsibility to keep your credit card information current, including the expiration date.

Now cancelling a domain, means deleting it. What fun.

Donny

At this time, I don't see Verisign being able to raise prices any higher than $6.00 a name. Unless the FTC comes in and slaps them with a heavy fine.

Donny

Originally posted by thewitt
In our opinion, both GoDaddy and eNom are playing some sort of low price, loss leader game here to build up their client base, before raising their prices to where they actually will make a profit on this business.

As you choosed OpenSRS for your domain business, how would you compare them to e.g. eNom? I don't speak about TOS or other things, only about their business plan.

BTW, I appreciate your posts, most of the tiem they are well founded.

There are a few reasons why we chose OpenSRS over the other wholesale registrars, and I have mentioned them in other threads.

1) Their wholsale price is reasonable and allows them a real profit.

2) They will not contact my customers directly for any reason without my approval.

3) They don't compete with me for my customers for add-on services or domain registration.

4) They will not sell my customer contact information to third parties for marketing purposes.

5) They have solid domain registration API and domain management systems that stay current with the features and functions from other registrars (.us transfers live when the registry was ready, domain locking, etc).

Are there reasons NOT to go with OpenSRS? I'm sure there are. I have had nothing but positive dealings with them however, so it will take more than a few dollars potential savings to get me to move.

-t

Originally posted by DesElms
While I think that's certainly possible, it seems to me more likely that it would take a price increase from ICANN/Verisign for that to happen. eNom is sufficiently profitable. It has a smaller staff than you realize, perhaps
Yes, I know you believe this. I just don't see that the numbers add up to sufficiently profitable unless they are making lots of money from another source other than domain registrations.

We've had this conversation in other threads and I don't wish to repeat it again here.

Having worked in senior management for a couple of different Fortune 500 companies, no one will keep a division for long if it's not making the company real money. It's not enough for the "domain" division of a company to simply pay the bills. There needs to be real revenue growth, and it's my belief that the sub-$10s are not going to be able to sustain themselves for long.

Yes, it's an opinion. I've never stated otherwise, and I know the saying about everyone having one and how their's doesn't stink...

Yes, it's educated but not with inside information from the sub-$10 registrars financial statements. The only financial statements I can see are those of publically traded companies - and yes, I've looked at them all.

I will not comment on GoDaddy's promise not to raise your rates once you have signed up with them without reading every word of the contract. I simply don't believe it's possible.

As for not having to raise registration rates in order to make a profit - you don't have many choices here. You can lower expenses or raise revenue according to any first year business course... You pick.

-t

Originally posted by thewitt

In our opinion, both GoDaddy and eNom are playing some sort of low price, loss leader game here to build up their client base, before raising their prices to where they actually will make a profit on this business. Other sub-$10 registrars have already raised their prices; GoDaddy and eNom are both going to be forced to do so at some point - the only question is when.


I don't actually know what eNom's business plan is, but from what I can infer, it does not look that bad to me. Based on their pricing $29.00 for .com/net/org it's pretty obvious to me that they are not really trying to be in the retail market. The appear to be in the domain reselling market to me.

Based on that assumption, why would you think that they will raise their prices? (reseller prices I mean). They make a small amount on each domain sold with very little or no support costs. The reseller "should" be handeling the support and only going back to eNom when they have a question. eNom is basically pushing their support system/costs out to the resellers.

Just wondering?

Frank

Originally posted by thewitt
Having worked in senior management for a couple of different Fortune 500 companies, no one will keep a division for long if it's not making the company real money. It's not enough for the "domain" division of a company to simply pay the bills. There needs to be real revenue growth, and it's my belief that the sub-$10s are not going to be able to sustain themselves for long.
We're not as far apart on this as you might think. I believe that you are categorically correct about the general fact that one cannot make-up for lost margin with volume. Where I think we're differing is whether or not eNom's small margin on reseller accounts is adequate.

eNom has, in my opinion, quietly been the smartest of all the ICANN-approved registrars. Without much fanfare or tooting of its own horn or sneaky games or fireworks, it has carefully plodded along doing exactly what it promised it would do.

I think you overestimate the amount of eNom's sales that are at the lowest profit margin. eNom has priced itself for those who are serious about domain registration (as demonstrated by the amount with which they're willing to initially fund their reseller account) about as competitively as a registrar can. And for those less serious (as demonstrated by smaller initial fundings) eNom is charging a higher price. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a relatively small number of eNom resellers did an initial funding of nearly $7K in order to get the $6.95 price. Rather, I suspect a great many more of them are at the $7.95 price or even the $8.95 price. So more of its business may be more-than-marginally profitable than you may think.

Plus, eNom has, now with its PDQ product and before with its Registry Rocket product, made it easier than most other registrars for a small reseller to be productive almost immediately and with little effort or up-front expense. That translates into lots of business that is easily acquired.

The PDQ product has really taken off -- lots and lots of subscriptions. At $99/year times all those subscribers, that's a healthy bit of ongoing, repeating revenue as well. Although I wasn't wild about it at first, I'm now very supportive of eNom charging that kind of price for PDQ. Personally, if anything, I think that's the price you'll see eNom raise before it raises its domain prices. But that's just a guess.
Originally posted by thewitt
As for not having to raise registration rates in order to make a profit - you don't have many choices here. You can lower expenses or raise revenue according to any first year business course... You pick.
Again, seemingly flawless logic on your part. And at the end of the day, we may all live to see that you were dead on. But I believe eNom has probably found a nice balance and may well be able to sustain it. Its support issues are minimized by the highly-sophisticated nature of the PDQ product, and the good functionality of the Registry Rocket product. Resellers being able to give retail and reseller customers a direct eNom login, where there is maximum functionality with minimum support also helps keep eNom's support responsibilities from becoming oppressive. It's getting continued revenue from such products as PDQ (more of which, I believe, are on the horizon). And people are flocking to eNom in leaps and bounds. I think the picture over there is more rosy -- in both the short-term and the long-term -- than you may think.


By the way... circling back to an earlier part of this thread...

Wasn't it you, thewitt, who was saying that you went with OpenSRS because it would never engage in such repugnant activity as selling or using domain registrant data for purposes such as spamming?

So, lemme ask you: Does what I wrote about in this thread (http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67668) qualify as spamming by OpenSRS?

Originally posted by DesElms
Wasn't it you, thewitt, who was saying that you went with OpenSRS because it would never engage in such repugnant activity as selling or using domain registrant data for purposes such as spamming?

So, lemme ask you: Does what I wrote about in this thread (http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67668) qualify as spamming by OpenSRS?
Yes it was. I've pointed this thread out to them and suggested they come over here and straighten things out. My understanding of this email is that it was mistakenly sent out as a test of an email going out next week - though we as resellers have not been totally informed yet as to why.

The nature of the email is clear however - even from this erroneous message - and that is to give those who were fooled into transfering to Verisign or eNom (through DRPA/C/E) into moving back at no charge. Many of these people don't even know they transferred their domains. I believe - though this is speculation on my part - that this may be in responce to a settlement. We will find out next week.

I can tell you that if OpenSRS begins SPAMming or marketting to my customers, I will not stay...

-t

Originally posted by thewitt
Yes it was. I've pointed this thread out to them and suggested they come over here and straighten things out. My understanding of this email is that it was mistakenly sent out as a test of an email going out next week - though we as resellers have not been totally informed yet as to why.

The nature of the email is clear however - even from this erroneous message - and that is to give those who were fooled into transfering to Verisign or eNom (through DRPA/C/E) into moving back at no charge. Many of these people don't even know they transferred their domains. I believe - though this is speculation on my part - that this may be in responce to a settlement. We will find out next week.
Interesting. My response to all this is in the other thread, where you posted much the same information. So I won't repeat it here lest we waste time, bandwidth and disk space. Let's see how -- or if -- OpenSRS responds. I like your up-front, no-nonsense replies, though. Thanks!

Originally posted by thewitt
I can tell you that if OpenSRS begins SPAMming or marketing to my customers, I will not stay...
Wow. There's nothing ambiguous about that, is there? Gotta' like a guy who stands by his convictions. You wrote earlier in this thread that that was really important to you. It's nice to see you'd be willing to put your money where your mouth is if it comes to that; and that you wouldn't just blindly defend OpenSRS like so many businesspeople do once they've become ensconced as a reseller for a particular registrar. I respect that -- especially because doing so would, I suspect, upset your whole business plan at this point. My stock in you just went up [grin].

Originally posted by thewitt
I can tell you that if OpenSRS begins ... marketting to my customers, I will not stay...
Oh, yeah... that's another aspect of it that didn't even hit me 'til right now. Marketing to your customers. That's really what it was, wasn't it -- in addition to being a spam, I mean.

If you, as an OpenSRS reseller wanted to mask the fact that you were reselling for OpenSRS (which I know can't really be done except, perhaps, from people who aren't terribly observant), an email like the one mentioned in that other thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67668) would certainly blow that all to hell, wouldn't it?

Hmm. So this whole thing has even more adverse impact than I first thought. Interesting.

you can always buy 10 yrs contract for 6.95/yr with godaddy, does it guarantee your domain for 10yrs period? and you don't have to worry about cost raising.

Originally posted by drti
does it guarantee your domain for 10yrs period? and you don't have to worry about cost raising.
Yes.

cause they steal your domain names and dont give them back unless you pay them $56.90 to get thte password back just so u can change the name servers..bah - **** GODADY :angry:

Enom is basically the same way. But they both have some options in their TOS that you should look at.

All domains will automatically be renewed 30 days before they expire. They will attempt to charge your credit card 30 days before the domain expires, and if they can charge it, they will renew your domain. Without you even saying yes. And do you think you will get the $8.95 renewal rate?

Does this mean that both eNom and GoDaddy save my CC info on their servers?

Is this also true with eNom resellers?

Which other registrars won't save my CC info?

At eNom you have an option to select if you want your domain to automatically renew.

Frank

I have been with Go Daddy for over three years and
they have great customer service.


Steve G.
Domain names $8.75
http://www.names4less.net