Hi

Is the gameservers market worth getting into?

I'm just gonna tell you what everyone else would have told you: No.

what makes you say no?

Because 99% of clients will be 10 year olds with their parents credit card.

Need i say more.

Yep youve got a good point there ;)

If you can do it right and have enough experience go ahead, but if you're a web/dedicated server host I wouldn't touch the game server industry since you don't know what you're dealing with.

"Game Servers are the next hot market!
Slim margins, heavy support, fickle customers, and moronic suppliers!
Start your own today!"

I forgot whose signature that was, but it pretty much sums it up.

That would be mine.

The big issue is renters tend to be kids with no jobs, so they're extremely cost-sensitive. Venture capital (gameservers.com*) and modern lemonade stands (kids just messing around over the summer) have driven the per-slot price below your cost, and dedicated server companies prevent much of a premium market.

* Just so you know what you're dealing with, last I heard, gameservers.com had around 40% of the market and installs dual-quad servers by the gross (144).

David,

I would steer clear of the GS department until you can comfortably support at least a large Core 2 Duo box, without clients on it. Once you can do that, the added revenue will be a nice touch. But you have to plan extensively, because as Adam stated - 11 year olds play Counter Strike too.

I second all of these replies about the pre-teen kids that take their parent's credit cards. What you usually find is your payments some how.. become reversed a month later for the same reason.. "I didn't order this!", says the parent.

Steer clear of this market unless you already have the capital, a better than decent business plan, and that you are actually willing to stick to it for more than a summer.

Cheers!

I was just enquiring as to what the markets like. If the gross capital needed ever becomes available I may give it a shot but from what youve all said it sounds like, at this moment in time its a waste of time

Thanks for your opinions WHT members:wht::flamethr:

That would be mine.

The big issue is renters tend to be kids with no jobs, so they're extremely cost-sensitive. Venture capital (gameservers.com*) and modern lemonade stands (kids just messing around over the summer) have driven the per-slot price below your cost, and dedicated server companies prevent much of a premium market.

* Just so you know what you're dealing with, last I heard, gameservers.com had around 40% of the market and installs dual-quad servers by the gross (144).

That 40% figure is a total dreamworld.

I wouldn't worry too much about gameservers.com and companies like them, From what I hear they break records for the amount of cancels every month so it's a wash. That business model has never been sustainable for the long haul. The key to GS's business is the enormous advertising budget, They advertise everywhere which brings in a steady stream of signups but on the other side they get a steady stream of cancels when customers realize they cannot spend $20 and get a decent game server. It's by design whether you realize it or not, As long as the signups exceed the cancels the model works. This wouldn't work in the real world but in the fast paced commerce of the internet it's right at home. There is a fine line though and personally I don't see it working into the future.

Because 99% of clients will be 10 year olds with their parents credit card.

Need i say more.

Money Is Money ;)
Who cares where is cemes from...

Money Is Money ;)
Who cares where is cemes from...

What i mean is, if mummy decides little johnny is spending too much time playing on the computer.

Goodbye Gameserver.

Also kids go through phases, one day its counterstrike source, next its world of warcraft.

Odds are little johnny wont be buying the server next month :P

Money Is Money ;)
Who cares where is cemes from...

If you are a business and plan to stay in for some time, you better care where it came from. This is where the big bad companies fail. They don't give a diddly squat where the money came from, who it came from, just as long as they make that money. I mean that's what its all about right? Make ... that ... money! Right? Wrong, companies should give a damn where the money is coming from because if their are no customers, their is no money. And without no money, their is no business. Customers pay for companies and employees salaries. People better understand this, and soon.

I wouldn't worry too much about gameservers.com and companies like them, From what I hear they break records for the amount of cancels every month so it's a wash. That business model has never been sustainable for the long haul. The key to GS's business is the enormous advertising budget, They advertise everywhere which brings in a steady stream of signups but on the other side they get a steady stream of cancels when customers realize they cannot spend $20 and get a decent game server. It's by design whether you realize it or not, As long as the signups exceed the cancels the model works. This wouldn't work in the real world but in the fast paced commerce of the internet it's right at home. There is a fine line though and personally I don't see it working into the future.

I agree to some of what your saying here.. but because you pay a lower price proves nothing. It only proves if the company is a good company or the company is a crap company, doesn't prove; low price = crap service, high price = top of the line service. Get out of here. Other than that, you make sencse, as always..

It's not their claim. The estimate was based on numbers from insiders, Supercomputer Gaming, Server Spy, and Psychostats, so it's no doubt drifted since that time. Disbelieve it if you wish.

It's not their claim. The estimate was based on numbers from insiders, Supercomputer Gaming, Server Spy, and Psychostats, so it's no doubt drifted since that time. Disbelieve it if you wish.

Pardon me, who was this reply towards?

What i mean is, if mummy decides little johnny is spending too much time playing on the computer.

Goodbye Gameserver.

Also kids go through phases, one day its counterstrike source, next its world of warcraft.

Odds are little johnny wont be buying the server next month :P

That depends.. Don't mistake the "only kids buy gameservers" thing because I completely disagree. Your comment is more or less towards the younger buyers, such as 13 maybe 14 max...

It's not their claim. The estimate was based on numbers from insiders, Supercomputer Gaming, Server Spy, and Psychostats, so it's no doubt drifted since that time. Disbelieve it if you wish.


Not all GSP's cater to the CS crowd. There are plenty of games that have huge client bases that don't get tracked from the above so I wouldn't buy into that too much.

Not all GSP's cater to the CS crowd. There are plenty of games that have huge client bases that don't get tracked from the above so I wouldn't buy into that too much.

I agree with you their..

I'm just gonna tell you what everyone else would have told you: No.

That pretty much explains it, didn't HG just recently acquire mainstreamgaming.com which was planning on closing down that day before they sold it? :)

Can some on explain to me how gameservers work?

Can some on explain to me how gameservers work?


Sorry that's classified. You need to know the secret handshake ;)

Sorry that's classified. You need to know the secret handshake ;)

Lol... You shouldn't keep it classified, but that's up to you.

If you want to know how they work, purchase a game, play it and learn how it works.

Can some on explain to me how gameservers work?

Funnily enough README's usually tell you this :eek:

Sorry that's classified. You need to know the secret handshake ;)

lol that was kinda geeky, but funny. I credit you on that.

Ihave done a lot of reseatch into web hosting ( as looking to get into it) and time after time i have seen people keep saying no. Its not that much of a niche and even though customers are out there, not loads to cover costs and overheads.

I'm just gonna tell you what everyone else would have told you: No.

I agree with you their..



That pretty much explains it, didn't HG just recently acquire mainstreamgaming.com which was planning on closing down that day before they sold it? :)

Yes, unfortunately they just couldn't make it in this business.. proving how hard it is to keep up.. even to old hosts. Honestly, I don't think the customers ruin this business, its the $1/slot GSPs that ruin it for the rest of us. Sure, sometimes the customers are a bit immature, but thats why GSPs are actually *supposed* to make money to provide sufficient support for them. The problem is when some guy decides to start up a $1/slot GSP then forces all the other hosts to drop their prices to compete. That drives down revenue and profit and leads to subpar service because of the necesarry price cuts to be able to afford it

Yes, unfortunately they just couldn't make it in this business.. proving how hard it is to keep up.. even to old hosts. Honestly, I don't think the customers ruin this business, its the $1/slot GSPs that ruin it for the rest of us. Sure, sometimes the customers are a bit immature, but thats why GSPs are actually *supposed* to make money to provide sufficient support for them. The problem is when some guy decides to start up a $1/slot GSP then forces all the other hosts to drop their prices to compete. That drives down revenue and profit and leads to subpar service because of the necesarry price cuts to be able to afford it

Price hike for the customers their, out of curiosity? Also I would like to note, if you are a business who's been in the game for awhile. You would have no problem offering some games at $1.00 per slot, depending on how you run your business. If you are a new host trying to compete, $1.00 a slot model is not for you. Good luck with the take over :)

Ihave done a lot of reseatch into web hosting ( as looking to get into it) and time after time i have seen people keep saying no. Its not that much of a niche and even though customers are out there, not loads to cover costs and overheads.

Web hosting business can make good profit, I mean look at hostbuyout.com their are people selling their companys for half a million and so on. I think if your going to be new with the hosting, don't quit your day job. Use this as a hobby or a side thing to do, as you progress. Taking one step at a time. You will earn more.

It depends on what crowd your trying to target really. If you want to offer $1 slot servers then expect younger and inexperienced customers. If you want to offer decent servers and everything that goes along with that your target audience naturally would be more experienced gamers who know you get what you pay for..

We haven't had to drop our prices to compete with anyone nor would I consider playing that game yet we still get a steady stream of new clients that don't mind paying for a real companies offerings. So in reference to your reply HG-Daniel, You are as much to blame as the $1 hosters by following their lead when you should be doing the leading..

We've never once lowered our prices because of the $1 hosts, the only time we lower our prices is when we're comfortable with it and can afford to without making cuts in other departments. When GSPs drop their prices without out being able to afford it just to compete is when the real problems start.

What drives me nuts aren't the $1 hosters, that is really a market unto itself...it's the companies at the bottom of the competitive market who say they've been in business for 3-5 years yet nobody has ever heard of them until the last quarter. Well, that and the 'we run our own network' commentary...no...you rent or colocate with <<Insert Known Host Here>> and THEY have their own network. It really bugs me to see the constant lying and hyping by some "companies".

I still find it amazing that all of these game server providers always talk down on the game serving market...

Would you expect anything else tho? You come asking for opinions from potential future competitors.. But I have seen Rich say that gameserving is not a good market to every single person who ever asks about it.

Honestly Rich, not to flame, but why are you still in this business then? I mean seriously.

IMO the gameserving business is fine, there is tons of room for improvement for hosts, the profit margins *ARE* high, and I think it is quite fun running a business like this...

If you want to be successful in this business, you really need to try.. but thats with anything you do... They are right when they say you wont get rich quick off of it. You really have to want to host gameservers and have a positive attitude...

Ever since I started posting I have been wondering why all of these gameserver hosts constantly talk down about the industry. I know you dont want competition, but if thats the case, DONT POST. He isnt asking if you like the idea of new competition, he is asking general business questions.

/end rant

If you think the Game Servers industry is easy, and for everyone, you should re-evaluate your consensus. While the industry has it's perks, the margins to break even are slim, and the client base are often under 18, in which you risk charge backs.

Not to mention, until you begin to grow to the point that you can reap the benefits of discounts with your upstreams, you have overhead that can spike quickly.

The advice of Rich and others is spot on. It's not a perfect industry, but many aren't. Hard work, dedication, and slim profits WILL come at the start, but in the end, almost anyone can make it with a solid business, and a solid price/quality ratio (hard to manage).

I don't discourage anyone from getting into this business and have personally helped some of the more successful GSP's going today get their start so that isn't true.

If I were to start over today I wouldn't do it. A few years ago it was a great industry to be a part of but today you not only have too create a great product but you need to fight off big business trying to get their hooks in while the one box wonder kids try to knock your legs off by giving away servers..

Back in the day we all knew each other and shared a good thing, Today it's a cut throat business and not one I would recommend to the casual hoster. I've been in this business longer then anyone and have an idea on what works and what doesn't so If you aren't prepared to listen to the truth then please skip over my replies since I won't sugar coat it like others do. What I find discouraging are the ones that don't have a clue but insist your wrong or just being mean..

I do see your point... Im sorry if I came off a little bit rude, I didnt mean to be..

But its still my opinion that if you really want to do something, then do it.. but do it because you love to do it, not because you think you can get rich quick...

IMO the gameserver market is still very young, even tho it may be watered down with hosters, more and more people are becoming aware that services like this exist, and mainly because of startup hosters fighting to get some new customers, which raises awareness... even tho they may not be customers of the new startup company forever, they become aware that the service exists.. Know what im sayin?

I do see your point... Im sorry if I came off a little bit rude, I didnt mean to be..

But its still my opinion that if you really want to do something, then do it.. but do it because you love to do it, not because you think you can get rich quick...

IMO the gameserver market is still very young, even tho it may be watered down with hosters, more and more people are becoming aware that services like this exist, and mainly because of startup hosters fighting to get some new customers, which raises awareness... even tho they may not be customers of the new startup company forever, they become aware that the service exists.. Know what im sayin?

You hit it on the head there :)

A large majority of providers whether game hosting or web hosting get into it because they perceive it as a way to make money without having to work hard which is the allure of many that get into it but quickly find out it's the most time consuming job they ever had and slink into the night taking with them the respect we all work hard to earn from the consumers of our industry.. I don't discourage getting into this business at all but I do acknowledge discouraging the ones I know right away that want to do it for the wrong reasons like you mentioned above.

As funny as this sounds, I still think there are millions upon millions of people who want to have a website, but have NO idea that it is about as easy as making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to have one hosted...

Same goes for gameserving, except I wont say millions, Id say there is thousands of people who want a server, but have no idea where to begin... But those startup hosts always find those people to make them aware (at least thats what I did in the beginning).

But eh, people keep talking about the whole monthly fee for gaming coming along and it is potentially threatening the gaming industry... I really wonder if future FPS titles are going to charge a monthly fee to play, and the servers will be exclusive to the publisher...

Thats probably the only thing that scares me, but eh... I dont think that will happen.. otherwise gamehosts are going to be limited to old titles... input?

What i mean is, if mummy decides little johnny is spending too much time playing on the computer.

Goodbye Gameserver.

Also kids go through phases, one day its counterstrike source, next its world of warcraft.

Odds are little johnny wont be buying the server next month :P

You got the vote. :D :D

IMO the gameserving business is fine, there is tons of room for improvement for hosts, the profit margins *ARE* high, and I think it is quite fun running a business like this...

If you want to be successful in this business, you really need to try.. but thats with anything you do... They are right when they say you wont get rich quick off of it. You really have to want to host gameservers and have a positive attitude...


Perhaps the reason you think margins are high is because you expect colocation including decent bandwidth, power, cooling, and colo space for $100 a month for a 2U server. It just doesn't work that way. To be a responsible provider, you'll need multiple routes (add $60 for 2mbit of different, decent bandwidth if you are very lucky), at least $20 in power, another $10-15 in cooling & power redundancy, and $20-30 for space. That comes to $110 with all the lowest numbers, not including setup, support (from your provider, or to your customers), and overhead. If your business model depends on $100 colocation, then you need to find a new business.

A positive attitude and trying your best doesn't move your company from the red to the black.

sorry scapeish, I didnt catch what company you are from?

Well my company is fine, in case you didnt know, we are not in the red by any means (or even close to it).

We also provide quality service on quality networks, thru quality carriers. With the great success paying what we have been paying... tell me WHY would I decide to pay MORE for the SAME thing?

So please dont criticize me, as you know nothing about what I run, and if you want to pay 300 dollars a month to colocate a server somewhere, please... be my guest.. and I guarantee I will be in business far past you.

Good day!

sorry scapeish, I didnt catch what company you are from?

Well my company is fine, in case you didnt know, we are not in the red by any means (or even close to it).

We also provide quality service on quality networks, thru quality carriers. With the great success paying what we have been paying... tell me WHY would I decide to pay MORE for the SAME thing?

So please dont criticize me, as you know nothing about what I run, and if you want to pay 300 dollars a month to colocate a server somewhere, please... be my guest.. and I guarantee I will be in business far past you.

Good day!

I'm not currently with any company; I do some hosting for friends & family, and help edit the site for a few groups I'm involved with; very little paid work.

I'm not saying that you would be in the red; it just doesn't seem financially feasible to ensure the uptime (network, power, hardware, software) for the budget you want to spend. I'm not criticizing you; I just find it difficult to believe you are able to claim that your company is able to provide the claimed services when your company's provider would be making marginal profit, not condusive to a long-lasting business relationship.

You seem awfully defensive and moreover, plain cocky. I think many of the other people here will agree with me that the model you depend on is sustainable with the increasing costs of power (and that means cooling too).

Is the gameservers market worth getting into?

First you should know, starting is on your own choice. Not nobody elses in here. Everyone who makes a post who agrees or disagrees, thats their own opinion and you can't go off anything. I mean you got to think, if their wasn't something in the market, why are their still gameserver companies out their? -- Which of coruse this doesn't prove anything. Are you going into the GameServer market to expand, or to try and make the big bucks? Or are you like most people out their, just doing this for some small extra handy cash? You got to answer that question before you take the first step. I know two companies who are very succesful and actully make money -- Dont give a damn what people on here say "99% of the gameserver clients are kids" and you know that for a fact? Move to other games. I'll tell you something. No where near 99 to 95 % are a bunch of kids. You'd be damn suprised how many adults, 30+ age groups order game servers and NOT for their kids, for them self. But like I said, before anyone quotes me. Its on your own opinion and the way you look at things. Let me ask you something. If your making good money, not from web hosting but a normal life job -- offline; People say having a girl isn't worth it because your budget will go + to -. You know what? Its the people who choose the wrong girls who make that statement. I have a girl that does things on her own, she supports herself and pushes away money. Tried to go the movies the other night and pay like I do, because I'm the man. I am the provider. Nobody else. I am the supporter -- she complains because she's tired of me paying. So man judge for your own self and nobody else. If you want to ask me, I'd say go into the gameserver market. Don't just market one game like allot of the hosts out here do on Counter Strike. Go to other games and pay much attention as every other game not just one. I noticed allot of companies out their are on Counter Strike, yet they offer other games but their main focus is on Counter Strike. If you havn't noticed, not everyone in the game server market who wants to buy servers play counter strike and thats certainly not where the moneys at. You'd have to do your own research on the games you want to provide. I feel gameservers is a good part, browser their forums and offer the games they do and the service they do but better, and boom badda bing. Your in. Good luck with your ventures and hope you make your own path and choice without anyone else in here.

I still find it amazing that all of these game server providers always talk down on the game serving market...



The problem is the market is already extremly overstaturated. Starting a GSP at this time would be a death sentence unless you have a huge budget to sastain it. The reason the market is so oversaturated is the same problem as the clients. KIDS with there PARENTS credit card. They think they can start a GSP over night by purchasing some random website off template monster and renting a dedicated server. These fly by night companies then steal the business from the bigger fish because they are much cheaper and claim to have better service. Well all goes well untill the mom pulls the plug or the kid runs out of money because he added his figures wrong if he even did the math before hand.....

What drives me nuts aren't the $1 hosters, that is really a market unto itself...it's the companies at the bottom of the competitive market who say they've been in business for 3-5 years yet nobody has ever heard of them until the last quarter. Well, that and the 'we run our own network' commentary...no...you rent or colocate with <<Insert Known Host Here>> and THEY have their own network. It really bugs me to see the constant lying and hyping by some "companies".

Well, you know it IS true that many GSPs do host their own network, and when I mean, host your own network, I mean that they are running full BGP route tables and the works. Well, I don't mean, MANY GSPs, I mean, just.. a few. A few that is actually in the business to provide better hosting services to clients. Sorry if I offended you, but you are also one of the hosts that are well known, well respected, etc. But, if you were talking about my hosting company, we do also run BGP on our end with 4 full route tables pushed our way. Sorry about the trouble

Back to the post,

So, just make sure you have the capital, and know what you're doing. Even if the market is saturated with kids, how do other companies jump to the top within a few years? Just provide great service and keep your customers happy, try hosting more than one game, that'd help you a lot during competition seasons. Competitions such as "CAL (Cyberathlete Amature League)" has game seasons, and off seasons, just like football. So, if you just have ONE game, you might be hurting during those off seasons. I hope this points you in the right direction.

Good luck buddy!

Ive been in the game server business for over 8 years now and yes I believe it is a great business to get into, but personally id make sure you partner up with some gamers or some more experience "gaming staff". Game hosting is not as simple as webhosting, dedi-hosting etc... it comes with a lot of work and mass amount of time keeping your customers happy. PC Gamers at the competitive level are the future of computer advancement for they are the ones who spend the most time on the computer, they research and develop mods for games and enhanced configs to make the game run smoother, all this also just adds into the support you will have to provide when your clients break the server and complain that it lags or wont turn on etc etc..... The business is right but there are too many people who arent gamers trying to make a quick buck. Ive seen these companies come and go and all they do is cause the game server market to flutter up and down. Another big factor is companies like "EA and Dice" are ranking their game servers now and have "Preferred hosts" and the only way to get on that list is to be aware of the game way before it comes out, offer your services to the company and to kiss some a**. These ranked games are creating issues in the game server hosting community for it becomes expensive to rent these particular games for only a handfull of companies can control the market

Thank you
Jason

Theres a market out there still for this, but you need to be different. What will you bring to the table that others havn't already? Come up with something unique and you are onto a winner. :)

i've been thinking about jumping back into the GSP biz. my friends and i have a couple boxes, and we sold a few cs/halo servers about 3 years ago. we had free hosting and unlimited bandwidth at a small colo in NJ. however, they were a Tier 2 provider geared towards mailserver/webserver applications, and gameserver performance (latency) became an issue as they acquired more webhosting customers. fortunately, the only costs incurred were for a dual xeon server, but that is still an asset today.

i've become interested in CS again, and i'm surprised at the amount of people who still play the game. i work full-time for a corporation, but i want to start a small GSP again just for fun. i'm talking...start with one box, and see where it goes from there. due to my years of gaming, i still keep in touch with a lot of ppl who still play, and word-of-mouth is the best form of marketing :)

i would only host CS and CS Source games for now, as i am very experienced with HLDS and can make the necessary tweaks to optimize performance. someone said that, limiting your GSP to one game only (i.e. CS) may not be indicative of higher margins or customer volume. i agree to an extent, but if you do not have experienced gamers working for/with you, will you know how to properly optimize performance? i can judge a good CS server because i've played for over 5 years. however, i've never set up a COD server, and i wouldn't know the first place to begin tweaking it. i've never played the game online, and would not know what to expect from its online, multiplayer experience. when halo came out for pc, it had a laggy netcode. i started hosting servers for it, and expected laggy servers because that's just how the game was.

moral of my story- if you're going into GSP, educate yourself on multiple games. play the games yourself. mess around in your home with a dedicated server (if you have the resources), and read/consult the forums for tweaking these games. if you're not experienced with a game you are hosting, then i don't think you can truly provide an excellent service in supporting that game.

You can do ok offering only one game type but choosing just CS/CSS would limit you being the market is saturated with hosts "specializing" in HL. But on the other hand I respect you for knowing you cannot provide a quality experience with some of the other games offered lately. The trap for new hosters is they try to copy the older companies and decide they need to sell 20+ games because someone told them they had to.. Problem with that is 9 out of 10 have very little knowledge of the games they sell which is suicide in business.. When you walk in to the local pizza shop and pull out your wallet you EXPECT the guy behind the counter to know how to make a pizza, If he only does it well enough to get by or it's terrible you can EXPECT a "closed" sign on the door before long because in most towns there are a dozen other shops that would be more then happy to earn your business. On the 'net 100's-1000's so it's even more true.

You can do ok offering only one game type but choosing just CS/CSS would limit you being the market is saturated with hosts "specializing" in HL. But on the other hand I respect you for knowing you cannot provide a quality experience with some of the other games offered lately. The trap for new hosters is they try to copy the older companies and decide they need to sell 20+ games because someone told them they had to.. Problem with that is 9 out of 10 have very little knowledge of the games they sell which is suicide in business.. When you walk in to the local pizza shop and pull out your wallet you EXPECT the guy behind the counter to know how to make a pizza, If he only does it well enough to get by or it's terrible you can EXPECT a "closed" sign on the door before long because in most towns there are a dozen other shops that would be more then happy to earn your business. On the 'net 100's-1000's so it's even more true.

exactly. i'd rather provide a quality CS/HL server than a crappy BF/UT/COD/etc server. i also think there's people out there who will pay for superb quality; just gotta know how to find them ;-)

Well, you know it IS true that many GSPs do host their own network, and when I mean, host your own network, I mean that they are running full BGP route tables and the works. Well, I don't mean, MANY GSPs, I mean, just.. a few. A few that is actually in the business to provide better hosting services to clients. Sorry if I offended you, but you are also one of the hosts that are well known, well respected, etc. But, if you were talking about my hosting company, we do also run BGP on our end with 4 full route tables pushed our way. Sorry about the trouble

No, I wasn't referring to you. Vivid Hosting HAS been around that long and does operate there own network. I believe you started out in the regular webhosting/dedicated/colocation market before moving into game servers, right?

I'm referring to the newcomer teenage operated companies that say they've been in business for 3+ years yet their domain name hasn't been registered for more than 1. They also make the wild claims on their website about superior performance, steal "their" network information directly from the company they rent servers from, claim they own all of their own hardware yet their specs match the exact specs listed on the dedicated page of their host. Trashy companies will always find their way into their own market, but the companies that pretend they are legit and professional confuse buyers and create mistrust in the marketplace.

But on the other hand I respect you for knowing you cannot provide a quality experience with some of the other games offered lately. The trap for new hosters is they try to copy the older companies and decide they need to sell 20+ games because someone told them they had to.. Problem with that is 9 out of 10 have very little knowledge of the games they sell which is suicide in business.. When you walk in to the local pizza shop and pull out your wallet you EXPECT the guy behind the counter to know how to make a pizza, If he only does it well enough to get by or it's terrible you can EXPECT a "closed" sign on the door before long because in most towns there are a dozen other shops that would be more then happy to earn your business. On the 'net 100's-1000's so it's even more true.

While I agree with you to some extent Rich, ALL GSPs rent games they are not 100% familiar with. If you have ever hosted a game on release day then you know what I mean. New games come out and all GSPs will offer it to their clients will little to no knowledge about how to fully manage/administrate the games dedicated server.

No, I wasn't referring to you. Vivid Hosting HAS been around that long and does operate there own network. I believe you started out in the regular webhosting/dedicated/colocation market before moving into game servers, right?

I'm referring to the newcomer teenage operated companies that say they've been in business for 3+ years yet their domain name hasn't been registered for more than 1. They also make the wild claims on their website about superior performance, steal "their" network information directly from the company they rent servers from, claim they own all of their own hardware yet their specs match the exact specs listed on the dedicated page of their host. Trashy companies will always find their way into their own market, but the companies that pretend they are legit and professional confuse buyers and create mistrust in the marketplace.

What's wrong with GSPs that don't host their own network? Sometimes leaving that to the more technical and professionals running the data center is the better choice. I wouldn't judge a GSP on that.

It seems to be a trend that most new GSPs don't plan ahead and don't have the capital to sustain the rough times of no clients for a few months and try to 'steal' the market by offering $1 per slot pricing, but clearly that's not where the 'quality gamer' looks for his next server.

I've been a GSP for a while, but decided to get out of it since it required a lot of time and my dedicated server sales were doing more than fine at the time (still are). I'm now looking to start a GSP (prefer to partner up with another GSP) because I have a lot of resources to give, but not the technical expertise to tweak the servers.

What's the average slot price for CS and CSS nowadays?

What's the average slot price for CS and CSS nowadays?

$1.50-$3.00/slot per month but it depends on the tick rate and other factors like the billing period length.

What's wrong with GSPs that don't host their own network? Sometimes leaving that to the more technical and professionals running the data center is the better choice. I wouldn't judge a GSP on that.

I agree Dedicatedone.

Basically the same as if you go into a grocery store and their prices are good and their goods are quality products. Do you care that they only rent the building they are in? Would their service or products be any better if they owned the building? The answer is it does not matter. For GSPs, as long as the network is top notch and the server is a quality server that is not oversold, it does not matter whether they rent or own the network/hardware.

Originally Posted by Dedicatedone http://www.webhostingtalk.com/whtimages_blue/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=4862957#post4862957)
What's wrong with GSPs that don't host their own network? Sometimes leaving that to the more technical and professionals running the data center is the better choice. I wouldn't judge a GSP on that.


The fact is that most GSPs do not own a datacenter. Yes, there are some that colocate and have on-site staff, but I doubt that there is more than a few that actually own a datacenter. That says nothing of their service though.

The fact is that most GSPs do not own a datacenter. Yes, there are some that colocate and have on-site staff, but I doubt that there is more than a few that actually own a datacenter. That says nothing of their service though.

GSP's don't "own" datacenters.. Your talking a few hundred grand investment there.. How much do you think the average provider makes? Don't be silly.

Add onto the fact it be silly considering GSP's need to provide multiple locations. It's far more cost effective to have a few racks in each location.

All this talk makes me want to get back into this business. What's the best control panel out there now? TC Admin?

Sure you need multiple locations, but not right away. It would be nice to do so, but I'd like to get established before I take on another location(s). I expanded too fast before then I had problems keeping up with billing and other stuff, but I think that was more disorganization and I'm better with that now.

What's wrong with GSPs that don't host their own network? Sometimes leaving that to the more technical and professionals running the data center is the better choice. I wouldn't judge a GSP on that.

It seems to be a trend that most new GSPs don't plan ahead and don't have the capital to sustain the rough times of no clients for a few months and try to 'steal' the market by offering $1 per slot pricing, but clearly that's not where the 'quality gamer' looks for his next server.

I've been a GSP for a while, but decided to get out of it since it required a lot of time and my dedicated server sales were doing more than fine at the time (still are). I'm now looking to start a GSP (prefer to partner up with another GSP) because I have a lot of resources to give, but not the technical expertise to tweak the servers.

What's the average slot price for CS and CSS nowadays?

That's not what I said at all. I said the problem is the kiddy GSPs who SAY they run their own network when they really don't. You know? They rip the "Network" page right off of their dedicated hosts site and call it "THEIR" network. It's not THEIR network, it's the dedicated hosts network. At least be honest and state that you are paying other professionals to host your network.

Kinda new to the forum and fairly late to the thread but here's a bump before I start.
To kinda talk about the whole issue of new companies coming out of nowhere claiming to have high quality network etc etc blah blah are really visible now. For example, in the dawn of 2007 till the end of 2007, I've seen countless names of game server companies which in most cases claimed they were in the business for 2-3 years like Laws said. Of course I would use my handy "time machine", input their domain and bammm~ Not even a few months old... Later, what really ticks me off is how these companies have 12 yr olds - 15 yr olds in their staff. To kinda aim in the Counter-Strike / Counter-Strike : Source scene here: All these teenagers get the thrill of being hired since these companies advertise to the point where your head explodes. These teens see that a SALES job is open and possibly a TECH job is open. These companies give "interviews" which are basically what's your name, how old are you, you really want this job? Climb Aboard! After a few weeks and possibly months of bragging and having the title of a "JOB", they realize they know nothing about what their doing so they simply "disappear".
I have nothing against new comers to this market but if you really are gonna enter the market, please be serious about what you're doing and KNOW what you're doin. Have a layout of what you are planning to do is more like it.
To cap things off, be prepared to sacrifice a few hours from LIFE to actually make things work... :S

Im also one that has thought about getting into the gameserver industry, and from reading the NUMEROUS posts about why not to do it I see this:

1) Most are kids with parents credit card
2) Unauthorized because of 1)
3) Too much time on computer and Parent cancels after # mths.

I see some very simple solutions to these problems.

1) Require a phone number to contact the Credit Card holder. Contact them, yes a kid could act as parent.
2) Require paying #mths in advance?
3) Contracts Contracts Contracts
4) Require a second number just in case of 2)
5) Incase of 1) call numbers during school hours, leave a message.

All these things can be accomplished within 24hours which can be your "Fraud Verification" timeline before server is setup.

Also, IF i were getting into the industry I definitly would not offer $1 slots/bottom rate slots BECAUSE as a small business, you cannot offer QUALITY, and if anybody knows quality its gamers! These people spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to keep their computers top of the line. If you go after top of the line people, you will greatly reduce the problems seen by various people in the industry.

But again its all about howmuch work you are willing to put into it.

And also this is just my view outside looking in. No experience in actually offering game servers.

Yeah, the phone verification method is being used by Aim2Game and Hi-Def Gaming Servers to my knowledge. However real time speaking via the phone for verification purposes I have yet to encounter a company that uses that. It might be an okay idea but going through all that hassle in the point of view from both ends is really frustrating don't you think? (my opinion)
Look at www(dot)gameservers(dot)com Yeah.... EEK

May be frustrating, but I do also believe that wouldnt the enduser appreciate it in the end? If your good on the phone you would just simply explain that its for their protection. :) People LOVE when you are protecting them and especially their credit cards. Especially if you are talking about an expensive purchase thats going to hit them monthly.

Yeah, the phone verification method is being used by Aim2Game and Hi-Def Gaming Servers to my knowledge. However real time speaking via the phone for verification purposes I have yet to encounter a company that uses that. It might be an okay idea but going through all that hassle in the point of view from both ends is really frustrating don't you think? (my opinion)
Look at www(dot)gameservers(dot)com Yeah.... EEK

We do not utilize phone verification as we don't accept credit card payments directly. We still funnel everything through Paypal as it does provide an additional safety measure. We do have a 'different' sort of verification system that I am not sure if any other company utilizes to help ensure that the Paypal account has not been hijacked and that the Paypal account holder does agree to the terms of service, charges and renewal scheduling. Since implementing this manual verification system fraud has dropped significantly. This system I've created also happens to help limit the number of "jerk" clients that are common in the game server market...if going through our verification process frustrates someone to the point of anger then I know that they will be troublesome once actually becoming a client.

We do not utilize phone verification as we don't accept credit card payments directly. We still funnel everything through Paypal as it does provide an additional safety measure. We do have a 'different' sort of verification system that I am not sure if any other company utilizes to help ensure that the Paypal account has not been hijacked and that the Paypal account holder does agree to the terms of service, charges and renewal scheduling. Since implementing this manual verification system fraud has dropped significantly. This system I've created also happens to help limit the number of "jerk" clients that are common in the game server market...if going through our verification process frustrates someone to the point of anger then I know that they will be troublesome once actually becoming a client.

Do you still get the clients that do not understand what "subscription" means and file unathorized use reports through paypal/credit card issuer"? I'm still thinking of ways to prevent this.

Do you still get the clients that do not understand what "subscription" means and file unathorized use reports through paypal/credit card issuer"? I'm still thinking of ways to prevent this.


Rarely. All subscriptions require that the Paypal account holder respond to an email I send to the primary Paypal email listed on the account which ordered. Now, for someone to "hijack" an account they would have to both take over Paypal and the email (or change the email in Paypal which sometimes triggers a verification from Paypal to ensure that it is the true owner changing the email) in order to gain service through our company. The verification email is a little lengthy, but the point is they send back a pre-written statement and fill in their full billing address.

Example return statement:

"I agree to the Hi-Definition Gaming LLC Terms of Service (located at
http://www.hd-gaming.com/index.php?page=tos). I confirm the current Paypal
charges of $100USD and all subsequent subscription renewal charges of $100USD. The billing address on file for this Paypal account is
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC 20500."

We compare everything provided to what is placed on the order. If the names on the accounts are different, we inquire as to why and let our nose help sniff out fraud. If the addresses are different, we inquire as to why. If anything seems "questionable", we don't put it through. We also do not setup any e-checks until they clear (at least for a new clients 1st payment).

GSP's don't "own" datacenters.. Your talking a few hundred grand investment there.. How much do you think the average provider makes? Don't be silly.

I doubt that a few hundred grand would cover the entire HVAC system for a datacenter that hosts production servers. Moot point, and you make a good point regarding the investment required compared to the profits made by the average provider.

What does everybody think about the PC gaming industry moving to a system similar to that of Xbox? I believe Microsoft is already starting to push this with games such as Halo 2 for PC.

PC Gaming is slowly dieing.

PC games accounted for only $910.7 million of the $8.85 billion generated by the video game industry in 2007—a puny 14%.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14001

I'm not sure if I really agree with you on that one. You are comparing 1 gaming sector to all of the other ones. Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, Wii, Sony's Handheld thing, Nintendo's handheld thing, even GameCube is probably in that list (as are probably a few others).

14% of a market with that many platforms seems like its still a solid number considering they don't take into account other methods of delivery such as Steam.

That article seems slightly slanted if you ask me.

I agree. If anything, the other "game" segments are expanding into more available platforms. I know some people that have multiple consoles and often the same game was purchased for EACH console. They also game on the PC, but the console is there for those times when they don't want to play on public servers and their clanmates aren't around. With the number of buttons on some of these new consoles they are certainly moving towards a more PC gameplay experience though.

Put it this way. Gameservers.com are hosting over 20000 servers ATLEAST, it could be 40000 for all i know. But at the least its 20000. Average each server cost to $40 a month, thats $80000 a month.

Who ever owns GS is sitting rich in the south pacific sailing a golden yaught full of playboy models

I highly doubt that and if the person does actually host that X amount of servers, then also mind the server fees and every other factor that comes into play when entering the market. :o

I highly doubt that and if the person does actually host that X amount of servers, then also mind the server fees and every other factor that comes into play when entering the market. :o

Theres over 9000 players connected to GS servers at any one time. At peak hours there's 19000-20000
I'm pritty sure hes a multi-millionaire

Put it this way. Gameservers.com are hosting over 20000 servers ATLEAST, it could be 40000 for all i know. But at the least its 20000. Average each server cost to $40 a month, thats $80000 a month.

Who ever owns GS is sitting rich in the south pacific sailing a golden yaught full of playboy models


Another way to think about it is they get $1 or so a slot for a server so you could sell the same server for $2/slot and only have to host 1/2 as many to make the same amount of money. Simple economics..

Seriously, I don't know anything about gameservers.com but I've been in this business long enough to tell you nobody's buying yachts ;)