I'm a witness, myself, and just wondering how many other people on these fourms are one please serious people only. Please everyone vote, and comment.

No, I'm not.
Jehova's are knocking on my door way too often. It's annoying. Ones they gave me a magazine which showed the "good girl" and the "bad girl" as they like to call it. The "good girl" was wearing conservative clothes, a backpack and had an apple in her hand. The "bad girl" was a punk rocker. :rolleyes:

What's that?

Nice way to stereotype. I also have them showing up frequently and I am not one myself. I try to be nice about it since I am not the type of person that is outright rude. But it is a little annoying when you ask them not to return and they still do. I have nothing against anyone (except maybe Bin Laden) but when someone asks for you not to return, it should be taken seriously.

I wanted to date a JW girl once, but heard through the grapevine her Dad was going to beat me senseless if I ever showed up at their door... Now I have a fiancee who's a Mormon (non-practising), so get 'the brother's' coming around right when I'm cooking dinner :rolleyes: Nice enough guys who know I'm not in the market to buy their product so we agree to disagree.

Greg Moore

I don't think any religion should doorknock to *sell* their beliefs. That includes Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormans (and any others that might practice this). It is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.

The magazine they give away sometimes has good articles, the Watchtower, I beleive it's called...something like that. My neighbors is one, and she invited me to go to one of their services once, and it was a very long, tedious and boring service. Mainly one guy talking and sermonizing over and over, and not much else. Overall, they seemed like pretty nice people, and seemed to mean well, but, I didn't agree with their beliefs or ideas. :)

I don't really care if your a jehova witness or not Just respect my privacy. But I found a simple solution to stop them from knocking on my door.

One saturday I woke up at 6 30am to be ready for the normal 7:15 knock at the door from the johova witnesses offering there awake booklet. So when they knocked me and my fiance both screemed JOHOVA WITNESES RUN AHHHHHHHH

ever since then. They have never knocked again.

I have nothing against Jehova's Witnesses - I've even had a few friends throughout my life who were.

What I don't like is other people trying to force their religion onto others - regardless of what it is. Nothing used to annoy me more than getting off the bus at our local Westfield after school (I had to change buses there) and get bombarded with booklets and other materials.

As for religion - I'm catholic (not practicing). I believe that everybody is entitled to their religious beliefs as long as they don't force them onto others.

--Shaun.

There's a mob in Australia who sell a sticker that you put on your front door that says - "NO Jehovah's Witnesses, No Mormons and No Door to Door Sales people". I have one up and it works like a charm. :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
There's a mob in Australia who sell a sticker that you put on your front door that says - "NO Jehovah's Witnesses, No Mormons and No Door to Door Sales people". I have one up and it works like a charm. :D

LOL, will you send one to me? :D
I have problems with both the Jahovah's and Mormons. I'm very polite everytime they are here and say "thanks, but no thanks" but they just don't seem to get the message and keep coming back! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
There's a mob in Australia who sell a sticker that you put on your front door that says - "NO Jehovah's Witnesses, No Mormons and No Door to Door Sales people". I have one up and it works like a charm. :D

I need to get one of those stickers.

Oh, and then there is what my wife did before she got saved.

She had a bunch of cats and the Mormon's came to do the door. They immediately started on their witnessing thing. So, in the time the door was open her pure black cat ran outside. She started screaming and yelling, "My sacrifice is getting away." They have never been back to that house since.... ;)

Regards

Originally posted by andiegirl


LOL, will you send one to me? :D
I have problems with both the Jahovah's and Mormons. I'm very polite everytime they are here and say "thanks, but no thanks" but they just don't seem to get the message and keep coming back! :rolleyes:
If you're in Australia, PM me your mailing address and I'll see what I can do. :D

Originally posted by michaeln

She had a bunch of cats and the Mormon's came to do the door. They immediately started on their witnessing thing. So, in the time the door was open her pure black cat ran outside. She started screaming and yelling, "My sacrifice is getting away." They have never been back to that house since.... ;)


I had quite a chuckle over that :)

Where I am situated in the house I normally wouldn't hear if people are at the door.. it's good during the day because salespeople, etc. just knock and get no answer :)

--Shaun

Actually I don't know if she really did that or not but she swears she did... LOL I laugh evertime I hear it. You would I have know my wife as she had died her hair jet black before I met her.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

If you're in Australia, PM me your mailing address and I'll see what I can do. :D

Aussie Bob's gonna set up a sideline sticker distribution business. :D

Originally posted by VoxKeysGtr


Aussie Bob's gonna set up a sideline sticker distribution business. :D
Ya never know. I could already have one in operation. ;)

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
There's a mob in Australia who sell a sticker that you put on your front door that says - "NO Jehovah's Witnesses, No Mormons and No Door to Door Sales people". I have one up and it works like a charm. :D

There's also another sticker people can use, it states "No Soliciting". That would cover each item you mentioned because whether it's a Jehovah's Witness or a door-to-door salesman, they are soliciting their product. It doesn't have to be something you buy to be a product. But I do like the one you have, it gets straight to the point and I don't think anyone could confuse that. :rolleyes:

i have no problem with the religion per se as in the uk their are laws to prevent them from withholding treatment from their children so people too young to make a decision arent harmed. religious convictions are all well and good but withholding treatment from children is something i find unforgiveable. we get a few visits on an infrequent basis. snarly dog usually puts off all but the very brave who are treated politely but just informed im not interested and they really dont want to be interested in me. i used to work with a very nice man called john who was a witness and now and again id borrow booklets etc to read out of interest and he respected i wasnt about to run and jump in the font and we had some great chats whilst waiting for autoclave runs to finish but the pushy type get treated with the contempt they deserve. when will people realise that you cannot force religious beliefs on people and you dont want to. a person can only know their religious, its not like you turning up at the door will suddenly make it happen. it just does or it doesnt. you cant want to be religious and have the same strength of conviction that someone who feels it has. wanting and being is different.
and the stereotypes , very amusing. its unfortunate that many people will judge a book by its cover and view punks as bad etc, one of my best friends through college was a strict 'ish' methodist and i even got invited to church now and again, but he went to rock concerts with me, he breaks the speed limits now and again lol and drinks like a fish. hes also one of the kindest and nicest people ive ever had the fortune to know.

Originally posted by markblair
There's also another sticker people can use, it states "No Soliciting". That would cover each item you mentioned because whether it's a Jehovah's Witness or a door-to-door salesman, they are soliciting their product. It doesn't have to be something you buy to be a product. Actually, in the US at least, from legal standpoint that's not exactly true. Anyone going door to door for the purposes of religious or political speech, the courts have found, is practicing constitutionally-protected free speech and can't be held to laws regulating solicitation.

In fact the Jehovah's Witnesses who just won a case on that topic in the Supreme Court.

Originally posted by JayC
Actually, in the US at least, from legal standpoint that's not exactly true...

Hmm, well I do believe you since I am no way close to being a lawyer. It's sad that they would fight that which goes against what the person living at the house wants. They obviously don't want to be bothered. They simply won a legislation that allows them to be told to their face to get off the persons porch rather than simply reading a sign that would forewarn them. I guess they like it tough...

"can I get a witness.... Can I get a witnessssss" duh duh duh (stones)

WT's aren't the worst people in person. Just like any strict religion or cult there's usually alot of normal people who participate that are very nice when you get to know them. When in witnessing mode though these norm's turn into power-walking, magazine-giving beasts capable of leaping three steps up to your door in a single bound!

My worst experience so far was someone attempting to witness to me at 8:00am on a Saturday. The fellow seemed nice and actually made enough small talk at the beginning to confuse my tired mind. Once I'd clued in though I remember saying this:

"Christianity is like breakfast sausages: you can only have so many before you get sick, and they're best served AFTER 10 AM!"

Went back to bed, woke up a little later, and laughed. :)

-Matt

I am a dedicated heathen. But, I must admit, I enjoy a friendly debate with some of the proselytizers. Mormons (Latter Day Saints) are definitely of the highest caliber and totally unflappable. Jehovah Witnesses ( I also had a good friend in High School that was a JW), generally, aren't well prepared and are easily embarrassed by searching questions. Both groups cruised the campus of my alma mater.

Originally posted by markblair
It's sad that they would fight that which goes against what the person living at the house wants. They obviously don't want to be bothered. Well to be clear what the recent Supreme Court case and most related cases are about is an exemption from solicitation laws such as those requiring registration, restricting hours, charging fees, etc. Religious and political groups can't be held to laws regarding solicitation, peddlars, hawking, all of which a terms used by various states and municipalities in their laws and ordinances.

As far as I know neither the Jehovah's Witnesses nor any other group has specifically said that they should or will ignore "No Solicitor" signs, the opposition is a more general one to being classed as "solicitors" at all.

Most of what I know about this is because I've worked as a consultant to various political groups in which among the things I've done has been calculating how much money being wrongly held to such laws has cost them... when they sue the particular municipality and ask for damages.

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
I don't think any religion should doorknock to *sell* their beliefs. That includes Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormans (and any others that might practice this). It is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.
Us Jehova's Witnesses don't sell there beliefs:). We do accept donations, to keep the world wide work funded though if you wish to do so. We don't ask nor charge for money for anything that we give out ie. WatchTower mags.

They knocked on my door one day...

I told them just exactly like this: "Could you please **** Off?"

And one day they returned with different people. I told exactly that word. They never come back ...so far.

Not Me... I tell them to get out of my house :).. I don't want them in my house LOL. Baptist Here and not just a normal one :) King James Bible Believing one at that :).

Aussie how about getting one of those stickers to Chicago :stickout

DS3Tech

My wife was a morman at one stage, unfortunatly. They are nothing but a bunch of money hungry hoolagans! ( much like scientologists (http://www.clambake.org/) ). They still come around here knocking on the door asking why she no longer shows her face. I had a nice little talk with them the last time they came around, which should have hopefully put an end to there sales tactics, but you never know whith these people. They aren't supposed to associate with others outside of their religion, so I don't see how it is possible / within their religious ( cult ) beliefs to go door knocking. I now have a cricket bat handy just incase they come a knockin'.

Whenever I get a Jehova's Witness at my door I try my best to convert them to Christianity. I say things like "Jesus will forgive you, if..." etc. I'm not religious at all, or even Christian -- but I like trying to use their own tactics against them. They try to convert me, I try to convert them. It's an even trade! :stickout

lol, only 1 so far :)

Originally posted by FDrive
Whenever I get a Jehova's Witness at my door I try my best to convert them to Christianity. I say things like "Jesus will forgive you, if..." etc. I'm not religious at all, or even Christian -- but I like trying to use their own tactics against them. They try to convert me, I try to convert them. It's an even trade! :stickout

Not to upset anyone but this had me laughing histarically. Seems fair to me... :D

Originally posted by Haze
I now have a cricket bat handy just incase they come a knockin'.

Hey, let's all go trick or treating at Haze's house. :D

We'll get chased away with a cricket bat. :laugh:

Originally posted by VoxKeysGtr


Hey, let's all go trick or treating at Haze's house. :D

We'll get chased away with a cricket bat. :laugh:

Actually there is no trick or treating in this country (Australia)... poor kids ( or should I say dentists? ).

:)

Theres got to be another jehova's witness on here besides me!? :( :cartman:

Originally posted by Haze


Actually there is no trick or treating in this country (Australia)... poor kids ( or should I say dentists? ).

I used to go trick or treating when I was in primary school here in Australia (last time I went was ~1995).

I got home with $40 and 2 large bags full of lollies and other niceties :)

Although it isn't really standard practice here in Australia - our neighbourhood was full of Americans so it was always fun :)

When my sister was old enough to go trick or treating we had moved out of that neighbourhood (~1996 onwards) and were living elsewhere... there were mainly middle class Australians... I think she got a teabag and a few chocolate bars.

--Shaun

Originally posted by shaunewing

... I think she got a teabag and a few chocolate bars.

--Shaun

A teabag!? :laugh: That sux, man...kids are supposed to get stuff that's bad and unhealthy for them :D

Originally posted by DS3tech
Aussie how about getting one of those stickers to Chicago :stickout

DS3Tech
email me with your mailing details and I'll send some out for free.

*gets inundated with mailing addresses* :D :eek:

I might make my own stickers and sell them at the Sunday Markets, I am sure they would be a great success :cool:

Aussiebob, where is this mob situated that you know of? Which state I mean. ;)

Aussie Bob,

I'll give ya a few bucks via PM if you'll mail one up to the states :D

Originally posted by richy
i have no problem with the religion per se as in the uk their are laws to prevent them from withholding treatment from their children so people too young to make a decision arent harmed. religious convictions are all well and good but withholding treatment from children is something i find unforgiveable.

Witholding treatment? JW's don't withold treatment isn't that Christian Scientists? - JW's just choose bloodless treatment because the bible prohibits the misuse of blood (Acts 15:28,29 and others).

By the way you would be surprised to know how many problems come from blood transfusion, if it was being introduced as a new medicine today it would never get a licence!

Oh and yes I CAN provide the evidence - dangers come from the transmission of numerous infections/viruses to increased reoccurrence in cancer surgery. A recent study showed a 33% risk of infection in the A&E (ER) when blood was transfused compared with 7% without transfusion. The NHS in the UK recently required all hospitals to seek actively for alternatives to blood transfusion, mainly out of concern over vCJD.

By the way I'm No. 2

Originally posted by markblair
Nice way to stereotype.

It may be a stereotype, but it's an accurate one.

-Bob

Originally posted by grandad
Oh and yes I CAN provide the evidence - dangers come from the transmission of numerous infections/viruses to increased reoccurrence in cancer surgery. A recent study showed a 33% risk of infection in the A&E (ER) when blood was transfused compared with 7% without transfusion.


Thats an iffy study then...

If you get blood in the ER it is most likely life threating.. And the conditions in an ER are far less than perfect for a steral anticeptic enviroment... They don't have time to prep a patent as you would in OR.. If they did prep the patient, there is a strong chance they would die...

Most work done in the ER isn't preventive or cosmetic, its patching you up so you can live, till they can get you up to surgery where they will then work out the fine aspects of your injuries....

By the way you would be surprised to know how many problems come from blood transfusion, if it was being introduced as a new medicine today it would never get a licence!
That is a good point. Because of the way blood is handled (and in the past, taken) there is naturally an issue with transfusion problems. I've yet to however meet a single JW that refused blood because it was "scientifically unsafe". Everyone has to this point stated clearly it's against their religion and nothing else - which propogates the stereotype if you will.

Understandably though, the benefits outweigh the potential for error by an enormous margin and Acts or not our God performs miracles both through His works and His people, who are we to say saving a life by a doctor giving blood wasn't through Him?

Enough religious babble for me. Everything's interpretive of our own morals anyway, that's why God's plan is perceived on both sides in a war.

Sincerely,

-Matt

long story, rather frightening for my wife and my daughter.

some background: I live in a rather well protected household, I have 5 dogs that I had trained for protection of myself and the family, my properly is bricked on 3 sides ( street, north and south, and I have a rock fence along the cliff to prevent people from falling 100'+ to the lower road ) and signs are posted on the gates and in the first 20' of my property ever 25 feet accross ( as per the law ).

I have a rather long drive way with a gate in front. Some how the gate got open and the dogs were inside there kennel. My daughter and my wife are playing in the yard and out appears this woman and man with briefcase in the back yard. All I hear is my wife's voice in panic and 2 other unknown voices, and my wife just hit the panic alarm by the pool. ( for those that understand about panic alarms, they go right to the the police station and you will only know that it is happening because the alarm system blinks red )

Within about 7 seconds, these fools got caught in a very dangerous situation, I released the dogs, and grabbed my shotgun from the den. I am happy to say that I did not have to shoot them, but the dogs took them down by the arms and legs, and did not tear into them after they were in on the ground.

Cops showed up, read me the act, they call the ambulance for these people. cops spent about 2 hours going over everything. I ended up with no charges filed by the town or the 2 people ( yes they were JW )

Mike

side note: since then, the rest of my nieghbors have gotten better security systems and dogs, and the warning signs are all over. " this home is guarded with attack dogs, do not tresspass ", if anybody needs german shepards or needs to send there dogs for training I got the guy in VA that will do it for you. Not cheap but you will be safe.

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
Aussiebob, where is this mob situated that you know of? Which state I mean. ;)
We're in QLD. ;) :D

Just across the road from me ;) NT :cool:

<<edit>>OHHHH so you are the mob! :cartman:

just get one doberman (dog) to guard your house and bite those religious 'salesperson' senseless.
I REALLY HATE people who tries to force their religious beliefs onto myself.That is just plain gay!!! For my case,Hardcore Christians are guilty of it.I do not get islamics knocking my door and ask me to pray to allah and I dont even get any pushy catholics. Just those hardcore christians.
can stand them.sometimes i wonder what makes christians sooooo pushy?

Originally posted by Roy@ENHOST
just get one doberman (dog) to guard your house and bite those religious 'salesperson' senseless.

Violence isn't the answer! :mad: Why train a dog to go this? It might just be your kid that ends up bitten senseless, or your Mum. And then your dog is put down by the authorities.....where did it get you? In the slammer?

Sorry if any christian is offended by my previous post. I am referring to those hardcore christianity 'salesman' in my post, to illustrate my point i quote an exerp from rcknine' pot "When in witnessing mode though these norm's turn into power-walking, magazine-giving beasts capable of leaping three steps up to your door in a single bound"

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
<<edit>>OHHHH so you are the mob! :cartman:
:D No comment. ;)

I am not religious, but I also know using violence, whether it be at your hands or your dog's teeth are no way to tackle the issue.

I also object strongly to the religious doorknockers, but i wouldn't condone your suggestion. :angry:

Anon,I was kidding man!!!
If I were to go for violence I would have called up Matt, our rugged beer drinking, ex-footballer neighbour.
Now, that is violence!!! hahaha

Originally posted by Roy@ENHOST
Anon,I was kidding man!!!

Try woman :stickout

If I were to go for violence I would have called up Matt, our rugged beer drinking, ex-footballer neighbour.
Uhh, do I know you? :D

:smokin:

-Matt

Originally posted by The Prohacker



Thats an iffy study then...

If you get blood in the ER it is most likely life threating.. And the conditions in an ER are far less than perfect for a steral anticeptic enviroment... They don't have time to prep a patent as you would in OR.. If they did prep the patient, there is a strong chance they would die...

Most work done in the ER isn't preventive or cosmetic, its patching you up so you can live, till they can get you up to surgery where they will then work out the fine aspects of your injuries....

Of course the matter of infections would take 2nd place to trauma surgery in most peoples minds - however surgeons including those in the A&E (ER) are rapidly seeing the benefits of using alternative treatments such as hemodilution, intra and post operative cell salvage as well as drugs to reduce bleeding etc. It is a FACT that bloodless surgery is the preferred treatment for everyone, JW or not.

Originally posted by RackNine

That is a good point. Because of the way blood is handled (and in the past, taken) there is naturally an issue with transfusion problems. I've yet to however meet a single JW that refused blood because it was "scientifically unsafe". Everyone has to this point stated clearly it's against their religion and nothing else - which propogates the stereotype if you will.
___________________________________________________

You are absolutely right - for JW's it is a religious not a medical issue, however my point was to show that (as you would expect from our Creator) God's law on blood is also medically sound. It is not just the way blood is handled, nor incidently is it necessarily other peoples blood! Even transfusing your own stored blood adversely affects your immune system - important especially in cancer surgery.

___________________________________________________

Understandably though, the benefits outweigh the potential for error by an enormous margin and Acts or not our God performs miracles both through His works and His people, who are we to say saving a life by a doctor giving blood wasn't through Him?

Enough religious babble for me. Everything's interpretive of our own morals anyway, that's why God's plan is perceived on both sides in a war.

Sincerely,

-Matt

Just because it is possible does not make it right - it is possible to use nuclear energy for both light and power - but also for destruction. God would not approve of actions brought about by means of transgressing His laws. The fact remains that God has a law concerning how blood may be used - if you believe that it is important to obey Him, you will observe that law - if you don't then you won't.

Originally posted by TMX
It may be a stereotype, but it's an accurate one.

-Bob

An accurate stereotype? So you are agreeing that all punk rocker girls are bad girls?

Ones they gave me a magazine which showed the "good girl" and the "bad girl" as they like to call it. The "good girl" was wearing conservative clothes, a backpack and had an apple in her hand. The "bad girl" was a punk rocker.

I doubt that every single girl that doesn't dress in a way that the Jehovah Witnesses approve is all that bad. I'd rather live next to someone that likes to party and have a good time than someone who is quiet and stays to themselves. You never know what the quiet one is doing.

Yaaa, there is another Jehova's Witness Besides me here:):):)!

Yes, not only has blood transfusion been proven, to effect cancer surgeys, and other things of that nature, but it has also been none to be prone of getting, or giving aid's.

Okay, I missed something. Are you saying that blood transfusions are not proven to be a reason for people getting AIDS?

Originally posted by markblair
Okay, I missed something. Are you saying that blood transfusions are not proven to be a reason for people getting AIDS?


I think maybe a language/typing problem! - I am sure he means that aids transmission IS linked to blood products, (as it is to drug abuse and sexual immorality).

Nothing against anyones belief's - but those watchtower magazines are amusing to say the least

Just take a look at the artwork - they leave you with a nice picture that heaven will be the perfect family, perfect clothes, living it out sitting under trees on the rolling swiss hillsides with a pet 400lb lion.

Hey - apart from the strange "I'd rather die than take a blood transfusion stuff" - then why not - if it keeps them happy then all power to them.

Hey - apart from the strange "I'd rather die than take a blood transfusion stuff" - then why not - if it keeps them happy then all power to them.
When someone's old enough and in clear mind to understand all the implications of not accepting a potentially life-saving procedure then I say more power to them. My issue is with this happening to those who have been brainwashed and our children who have no ability to fend or decide these matters on their own. Happy heaven or not no-one should have the power to legally take a life.
they leave you with a nice picture that heaven will be the perfect family, perfect clothes, living it out sitting under trees on the rolling swiss hillsides with a pet 400lb lion.
Sounds more like "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" to me. Paints a nice picture though, the more we want something the better it looks.

Sincerely,

-Matt

Originally posted by RackNine

When someone's old enough and in clear mind to understand all the implications of not accepting a potentially life-saving procedure then I say more power to them. My issue is with this happening to those who have been brainwashed and our children who have no ability to fend or decide these matters on their own. Happy heaven or not no-one should have the power to legally take a life.

Sincerely,

-Matt


No JW would ever "take a life", adult or child - the ones being "brainwashed" are those who would tell us that only a blood transfusion will save a life - that is simply not true in the vast majority of cases. The medical profession is now making use of many blood-saving procedures which sustain life even when blood loss is extreme (eg 1.2, 1.3 and 1.8 g/dl [normal blood level = about 14 g/dl] cases are now common.

I have both children and grandchildren and I can assure you that we do our utmost to ensure our children get the very best medical treatment. We are not anti-medicine or anti-surgery, we just avoid blood products out of respect for Gods law.


http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/1/8/article_03.htm

Yea lol, grandad thankyou for clearifying that for me:). English is my second language.

Sorry to jump there it just sounded really odd and I thought, "no he didn't just say that". Hope I didn't make anyone feel like I was accusing QWEST of saying something. As stated, I was asking because it did sound too odd to me. :)

i know a little about some of the techniques used as medicine is an area that interests me and its a family trade. i was wondering (no flame intended) how you classify 'avoid' blood products. would you if it was a simple life and death choice? would the fact that if you refused it would happen anyway affect this? (in the uk any parent refusing has their child made a ward of court and the matter is out of their hands), would i be right in assuming that if blood products are refused and the child dies it is gods will? sorry if they seem patronising just honest questions, thanks for being open about a potentially touchy subject :)

and your perfectly right in the fact that bloodless surgery is preferable for everyone. i was just wondering about cases where there is no choice. i must admit i find it hard to imagine i could refuse, but i lack your strength of belief.

sorry just to clarify from earlier when i said withholding treatment i mean with respect to blood transfusions, not treatment entirely, as in the blood transfusion be A treatment, as in some cases is required and theres no way not too.

You know what I feel Like doing.
I want to get the addresses to all the JW in my neighborhood then at 1am in the morning bang on there doors and ask them if they want my churches bulletin for the week.

Originally posted by Hardwaregeek
You know what I feel Like doing.
I want to get the addresses to all the JW in my neighborhood then at 1am in the morning bang on there doors and ask them if they want my churches bulletin for the week.


You would probably get a better attitude from us at 1am than we do from many others during the daytime!

Originally posted by richy
i know a little about some of the techniques used as medicine is an area that interests me and its a family trade. i was wondering (no flame intended) how you classify 'avoid' blood products. would you if it was a simple life and death choice? would the fact that if you refused it would happen anyway affect this? (in the uk any parent refusing has their child made a ward of court and the matter is out of their hands), would i be right in assuming that if blood products are refused and the child dies it is gods will? sorry if they seem patronising just honest questions, thanks for being open about a potentially touchy subject :)

and your perfectly right in the fact that bloodless surgery is preferable for everyone. i was just wondering about cases where there is no choice. i must admit i find it hard to imagine i could refuse, but i lack your strength of belief.

sorry just to clarify from earlier when i said withholding treatment i mean with respect to blood transfusions, not treatment entirely, as in the blood transfusion be A treatment, as in some cases is required and theres no way not too.


Perhaps "avoid" gives the wrong impression as any truly dedicated JW would not accept whole blood, RBC's WBC's, platelets or plasma. All true JW's refuse any treatment involving these, even if it leads to death (though it rarely does).

In the case of a child, a court might be invlolved in the UK but more and more Doctors are respecting the JW's wishes and actively seek alternative treatments where they are available, saving the unneccessary time of the courts.

However science can now produce small blood fractions (eg immunoglobulins etc) and each JW will have to decide conscientiously before God as to whether he would accept any of these small blood fractions. These are fractions of blood and not blood itself hence the difference - in these cases it is a personal choice, some will, some won't.

Is it Gods will that a child dies? NO! - not when it dies through famine, war, civil unrest, medical negligence, abortion etc, etc. The simple fact is that the way things are at present under Satan's world, things do not work out as God originally intended; that is why Christians have prayed the Lord's Prayer for years - "they Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth". We look forward to that time and try to get others to look forward to it too - that's why we call.

God does not delight in the death of anyone, but faithfull people have always been willing to put obedience to God before their lives (just check out the Acts of the Apostles etc) - Christian men women AND children were thrown to the lions in the Roman theatres!

God promises a resurrection of those faithfull to Him, temporary life now is nothing compared with the gift of everlasting life that God promises (John 3:16, John 17:3). As JW's we actively seek medical aid for ourselves and our children, we don't want to die neither do we want our children to die. We love our children and that is why we safeguard them in God's love - even when that is sometimes unpopular.

Originally posted by ADEhost
long story, rather frightening for my wife and my daughter.

some background: I live in a rather well protected household, I have 5 dogs that I had trained for protection of myself and the family, my properly is bricked on 3 sides ( street, north and south, and I have a rock fence along the cliff to prevent people from falling 100'+ to the lower road ) and signs are posted on the gates and in the first 20' of my property ever 25 feet accross ( as per the law ).

I have a rather long drive way with a gate in front. Some how the gate got open and the dogs were inside there kennel. My daughter and my wife are playing in the yard and out appears this woman and man with briefcase in the back yard. All I hear is my wife's voice in panic and 2 other unknown voices, and my wife just hit the panic alarm by the pool. ( for those that understand about panic alarms, they go right to the the police station and you will only know that it is happening because the alarm system blinks red )

Within about 7 seconds, these fools got caught in a very dangerous situation, I released the dogs, and grabbed my shotgun from the den. I am happy to say that I did not have to shoot them, but the dogs took them down by the arms and legs, and did not tear into them after they were in on the ground.

Cops showed up, read me the act, they call the ambulance for these people. cops spent about 2 hours going over everything. I ended up with no charges filed by the town or the 2 people ( yes they were JW )

Mike

side note: since then, the rest of my nieghbors have gotten better security systems and dogs, and the warning signs are all over. " this home is guarded with attack dogs, do not tresspass ", if anybody needs german shepards or needs to send there dogs for training I got the guy in VA that will do it for you. Not cheap but you will be safe.

Strewth - Remind me never to take the job as a postman in your neighbourhood ! Lets just hope you don't live next door to a school..... Kids kick a ball over - kid tries to retreive ball - dogs get dinner. Doh!

I've got a better method of avoiding JWs calling - Never answer the door - ever - to anyone. Works 100% for me. Some other beneficial side effects to - no more trick or treaters etc

Originally posted by ADEhost

I have a rather long drive way with a gate in front. Some how the gate got open and the dogs were inside there kennel. My daughter and my wife are playing in the yard and out appears this woman and man with briefcase in the back yard. All I hear is my wife's voice in panic and 2 other unknown voices, and my wife just hit the panic alarm by the pool. ( for those that understand about panic alarms, they go right to the the police station and you will only know that it is happening because the alarm system blinks red )

Within about 7 seconds, these fools got caught in a very dangerous situation, I released the dogs, and grabbed my shotgun from the den. I am happy to say that I did not have to shoot them, but the dogs took them down by the arms and legs, and did not tear into them after they were in on the ground.

Cops showed up, read me the act, they call the ambulance for these people. cops spent about 2 hours going over everything. I ended up with no charges filed by the town or the 2 people ( yes they were JW )

Mike

side note: since then, the rest of my nieghbors have gotten better security systems and dogs, and the warning signs are all over. " this home is guarded with attack dogs, do not tresspass ", if anybody needs german shepards or needs to send there dogs for training I got the guy in VA that will do it for you. Not cheap but you will be safe.

Firstly if that had happened in the UK you would have been charged with negligence at the minimum, even without charges being brought by the visitors.

Secondly its interesting that your visitors didn't bring charges don't you think.

Thirdly I think your dog-trainer would be the last one I would choose after reading that "story".