This may be a long story, but I want to warn anyone who may be even considering CWI to BEWARE

It all started in March 2001, I used to have a UBB board and someone at ubbdev.com recommended CWI. I already had a very good host (that I am still with) But I figured if this guy was using them they must be good.

I ordered a 1-year plan then surfed a few web hosting forums and emailed the guy that had recommended me to CWI. All the reviews were bad and the guy who had recommended me to them replied to my email to stay away at all costs. He stated that his original post was long ago and had a lot of trouble with them and had moved on.

I immediately email CWI to cancel the account and not charge my credit card since the card was not even charged yet. What followed has been a webmasters nightmare.

In short they would not refund my money, I had just gotten a new job and also became the father of twins so I did not have time to follow up more on the issue other than I already had.

Imagine my surprise when I just got an invoice from them 2 weeks ago. They were still charging my card AFTER the one-year had ended and the only reason they emailed me was because my credit card was renewed and they could not charge it anymore.

I had never looked at the credit card statements because my wife handles that and she thought that was my current host.

I have never used the account EVER, I never had my domain transferred, I never used them for anything and they beat me out of aprox. $400 bucks.

see next post for the emails with CWI read the next post bottom to top

I'll let the emails tell the story:

I replaced my last name with MYNAMEXXX

Read the rest of this post from BOTTOM TO TOP.


I am not responsible for anything, I do not have an account with you, I signed up for a one year agreement then cancelled the same week, I have never used the account. Mydomainedited.com was NEVER hosted with your company at any time whatsoever.

Your attempt at extortion is futile. I will not pay you one more cent, you stole over 3 hundred dollars from me over a year ago, I cancelled this account one week after I opened it, You would not refund my money and I didnt have the time to fight it because I had just gotten a new job and was very busy.

My account with your so called company is, and has been, CLOSED. Please update your records.

The next extortion email I get from you will prompt me to post my entire expierence with you to every web hosting message board, better business bureau, and any other place that deals with situations like this.

I still have every email and response from you from last year when I cancelled my account. Please stop your harassment and attempted extortion.

-Michael MYNAMEXXX



email from 2 weeks ago


----- Original Message -----
From: CWI Billing
To: Michael MYNAMEXXX
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: Invoice For Web hosting Service

Hello Michael:

We have not yet received a proper cancellation from you as per the policy which you agreed to at http://www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm#cancellation, therefore you are still repsonsible for the payment on your account.

CWI Billing - Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael MYNAMEXXX
To: CWI Billing
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Invoice For Web hosting Service

I do not have an account with you, mydomainedited.com has been hosted on the same server since 1999, Please adjust your records.


----- Original Message -----
From: CWI Billing
To: michael@MYNAMEXXX.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:51 AM
Subject: Invoice For Web hosting Service

CWI Global Internet Technologies, Inc.
attn: Billing Dept.
1840 N. Lee Trevino, Ste 110
El Paso, TX 79936
USA


Invoice for Service

Customer Name: MYNAMEXXX Michael

Domain Name: www.mydomainedited.com
Date Due: 7/15/02

Item's Cost
www.mydomainedited.com 30.00





TOTAL: $30.00


Please make payment in one of the following manners:

1) Online @ https://www.creative-webs.com/opc.htm

SNIP___

My last email of 2001

I can fill up 3 pages of my emails to you asking to cancel my order BEFORE
you charged my card
As I recall Your false advertising website said "30 day money back
guarantee" You wouldnt even cancel an order
that wasn't processed yet! Your website is full of lies, I also know of two
people YOU STILL OWE MONEY TO
their letters and reports to the BBB , All my emails to your company with
headers, dates and times are being submitted to
Mastercard,BBB and other agencies. I have not and will not use your
services...I asked you to cancel the order in 8 seperate
emails BEFORE you charged the card. You can Credit my card the easy way or
the hard way...... I'm glad I found out about
your practices before I actually put my website on your server, I have never
had a problem like this with a host.

here is another example showing I asked that you cancel an order that was
not yet processed on the 19TH :



I have not received any "login" or any other email from cwi except for an
autoresponse When I signed up. Please dont start trouble already, I havent
even used the service!! and I see already whats going on here. Again this is
my SECOND REQUEST, DO NOT CHARGE MY CARD.. If you do I will let Mastercard
handle it , I have the proof I asked you numerous times not to charge my
card

Michael MYNAMEXXX




----- Original Message -----
From: "CWI Billing" <billing@cwihosting.com>
To: "Webmaster" <webmaster@mydomainedited.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: CANCEL ORDER


> Mr MYNAMEXXX:
>
> We have the proof showing that you did place an order and that it was sent
> to you and you agreed to the policy on our site. You are now responsible
> for carrying out the cancellation portion of the policy. You will need to
> send a fax to the following phone number 915-595-0173. By not doing this
> Visa/mastercard will clearly recognize that you agreed to policy which is
> legally binding and that you are now going against that policy. Your
> account still remains open as this is not a vaid cancellation.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> CWI Billing
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Webmaster" <mydomainedited@mydomainedited.com>
> To: "CWI Billing" <billing@cwihosting.com>
> Cc: "Michael MYNAMEXXX" <michael@MYNAMEXXX.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:38 AM
> Subject: Re: CANCEL ORDER
>
>
> > DO NOT CHARGE MY CARD . If my card is charged it will be unauthorized,
I
> > will have mastercard deal with it, I have a life to live not run around
> > sending faxes. I have never recieved a login or anything except for auto
> > responses. I'll say it again CANCEL my order. I will call mastercard
> when
> > i get home from work if this matter is not resolved, They know how to
take
> > care of unauthorized transactions PERIOD
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sales" <sales@creative-webs.com>
To: "Michael MYNAMEXXX" <michael@MYNAMEXXX.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: Automated reply from orders@www.cwihosting.com


> Michael MYNAMEXXX:
>
> If you already received your login (you likely have as I don't see your
> order pending) you need to close your account as per policy you already
> agreed to www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm If have not received anything,
> cancel the same way for a full refund.
>
> I'm rather surprised that you do not even want to try our services or ask
> questions when we obviously serve many satisfied clients. Or how about
> checking more then one source? Any hosting company serving thousands, will
> have a negative review or two, though hopefully far more positive, which
is
> the case here This is unavoidable, say one out of every thousand to run
> across a irrational person is not un common.
>
> Here are just a few more recent reviews:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> CWIHosting has great support
> By Vincenzo Iuorno 165.21.83.138 3/5/2001
> Rating: 9
>
>
> CWIHosting.com has an excellent support team. All my questions are usually
> answered withing a short time and up to the point. For anyone looking to
> host their Servlet/JSP pages I can fully recommend CWIHosting.
>
(5 more postive reviews deleted because it couldnt fit in this post)

> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Webmaster" <mydomainedited@mydomainedited.com>
> > > To: <sales@cwihosting.com>
> > > Cc: "Michael MYNAMEXXX" <michael@MYNAMEXXX.com>;
<billing@cwihosting.com>;
> > > "jkn,." <ceo@cwihosting.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 9:28 PM
> > > Subject: CANCEL ORDER
> > >
> > >
> > > > Please Cancel My request for hosting and do not charge my card, You
> have recieved bad reviews which were once good reviews. please email me
> back andlet me know status ASAP Thank you
> > > >
> > > > My Info
> > > >
> > > > Michael MYNAMEXXX
> > > > www.mydomainedited.com
> > > > michael@MYNAMEXXX.com
> > > >




> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <orders@www.cwihosting.com>
> > > > To: <michael@MYNAMEXXX.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:08 PM
> > > > Subject: Automated reply from orders@www.cwihosting.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Dear New Customer:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for selecting CWI as your host! We would not be here
without people like you! Your order has been received and is being
processed. Please allow 24hours. Contact us if you have any questions. We look forward to working with you.

> > Regards,
> > > cwiHosting.com


BEGINNING OF CONTACT WITH CWI -^

Perhaps all this would have been avoided if you actually followed their cancellation policy (http://www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm#cancellation) - it seems pretty clear to me.

Stingray, you got what you deserve... when you act like that people aren't going to be very helpful and will just give you "follow the policy" line... should've just faxed them, but nooo... your stubbornness and stupidity cost you $300 bucks... perhaps next time you won't step into the same pile of sh!t.

I am just warning people about them, I do not expect my money back. The emails should be read Bottom to top... You will then see how it escalated. I have been with my current host since 1999 and no problems whatsoever.

My mistake was jumping in before I researched.

I'm sorry to say I do not have a fax machine, I am out of the house for work at 5am and come home 7PM most days because of overtime. Since I work construction outdoors in NYC... I do not have the capability of "faxing them from the office"

I emailed them to cancel with a verified email address which IS in their policy, This was there first reply back to me which started everything:


From: "Sales" <sales@creative-webs.com>
To: "Michael xxxxx" <michael@xxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: Automated reply from orders@www.cwihosting.com


> Michael xxxxx:
>
> If you already received your login (you likely have as I don't see your
> order pending) you need to close your account as per policy you already
> agreed to www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm If have not received anything,
> cancel the same way for a full refund.
>
> I'm rather surprised that you do not even want to try our services or ask
> questions when we obviously serve many satisfied clients. Or how about
> checking more then one source? Any hosting company serving thousands, will
> have a negative review or two, though hopefully far more positive, which
is
> the case here This is unavoidable, say one out of every thousand to run
> across a irrational person is not un common.
>
> Here are just a few more recent reviews:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> CWIHosting has great support
> By Vincenzo Iuorno 165.21.83.138 3/5/2001
> Rating: 9
>
>
> CWIHosting.com has an excellent support team. All my questions are usually
> answered withing a short time and up to the point. For anyone looking to
> host their Servlet/JSP pages I can fully recommend CWIHosting.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> Over a year and going strong into the future!
> By Bill Schutt 64.81.35.42 2/4/2001
> Rating: 10
>
>
> I have now been with CWI for a little over one year. Over the course of
the
> last year I have seen good service become fantastic service, great hosting
> packages become fantastic packages. As my hosting needs grew, I knew
> everything I would need had already been included with my hosting package.
I
> am truly happy with my decision to choose CWI over a year ago and I know
CWI
> will be my hosting company in the coming years.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> Please let me know if I can help you with anything else.
>
> Sales-Mark
> CWI Hosting.com
> 1-800-832-9CWI

I think all of this is rather frightening... Not everyone has a faxmachine, although some modems can fuction as one, and not everyone can call another country to cancel something.

What I find really worrying is this bit: > > If you already received your login (you likely have as I don't see your
> order pending) you need to close your account as per policy you already
> agreed to www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm If have not received anything,
> cancel the same way for a full refund.


Isn't there supposed to be an e-mail with something like: follow this link to complete order... :confused:

Most newsletters have that.

Stingray you deserved it. I hate clients who are too lazy to follow a policy and put the law in their own hands... They think they can get away with it. I hope they get a collection agency so you get a bad credit rating... Hate to sound mean but its clients like this that want everything for nothing... Why don't you complain to your domain registrar? Go write a complaint to Network Solutions asking them for a refund on your domain.. I mean you didn't use it for anything right?? Don't you deserve a full refund from a domain name you didn't use?

Wouldn't the world of business save SO MUCH TIME and money if we had ALERTS on people like you... Instead of "BUYER BEWARE", something on the lines of "COMPANIES BEWARE" -- Dealing with this person will only result in negative sales. Avoid at all cost...

Originally posted by reptilian-fe
I think all of this is rather frightening... Not everyone has a faxmachine, although some modems can fuction as one, and not everyone can call another country to cancel something.


Umm don't they allow you to cancel by email?

Originally posted by Rich2k


Umm don't they allow you to cancel by email?

Yes, and I did cancel by email as you can see. My whole point here is they decided they wanted it FAXED. I have no access to a fax machine, I dont even have a modem in my computer (using cable)


Why don't you complain to your domain registrar? Go write a complaint to Network Solutions asking them for a refund on your domain.. I mean you didn't use it for anything right?? Don't you deserve a full refund from a domain name you didn't use?


My domain has been active since 1999 recieving over 3 million hits to date.

yes I did fly off the handle but with good reason, any good e- merchant will let you cancel by email, Ive done it a million times.
When i signed up with them i didnt have to fax them to open an account or I wouldnt have done it. Why make cancellation so extremely hard? I also must add that as soon as I looked up reviews on CWI, they all stated similar situations. Of course I then knew I was in for trouble and therefore the tone in my emails.

I realize most of you are hosts here and you are defending yourselfs vicaraiously. But hey, I can cancel a domain name by logging in to register.com or thru an email, I can cancel an order at amazon thru an email. Are we not in the new millenium?

According to the way some of you think.. I should cancel my cell phone and go back to a pager! Fax machines may prove usefull in buisness but not to the average consumer.

I'm not trying to argue with you guys, I realize some of my emails were strong worded...but it was because of places like this very board that I knew what I was in for before sending my first cancelation email.

As far as a bad credit rating which some has mentioned.. It wont happen, I dated a girl years ago that worked for a collection agency and she informed me If it's not CREDIT they cannot do anything.

BTW after my last email 2 weeks ago I have recieved no further response from CWI. That shows me they know they are in the wrong.

-Mike

i'm sorry but "i have nowhere to fax from" is the lamest excuse i've ever heard... there are plenty of places to send a fax from... library, local printer, internet cafe (most are open til like midnight or even 24/7 depending on your local laws) and if it really is all that bad and you have none of these in your area (hehe, yeah right), just drop by any local store and ask to send a one page fax... geez...

btw, i did read it from bottom to top.. i'm familiar with how this works.

I'm sorry you guys want to gang up on me, My original post is to warn people about CWI or at least own a fax machine before you sign up with them. I cannot say anything of their service as I have never used it.

i'm sorry but "i have nowhere to fax from" is the lamest excuse i've ever heard...

THAT is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

I ordered on the internet and I should be able to cancel on the internet PERIOD.

I came here and put my expierence out here for the sake of the CONSUMER.

so, If you want to sign up with CWI...BUY A FAX MACHINE FIRST

the point, my dear friend, is that from your story, to word it simply, you told them to cancel, they said you have to fax in, you didn't... and because of your "can't fax, faxes are stupid" attitude you are $400 bucks down... the point is that while faxing to cancel might be stupid in this modern age, the "moron" here is you my friend...

well then I'm a moron because I dont have a fax machine? I work from morning til night as a union laborer, I was even at ground zero for free on 12 hour shifts, I DONT HAVE TIME TO SEARCH AROUND FOR A FAX MACHINE. maybe now that I am laided off I could do it. but I working then and didnt have the time, Is that so hard to understand?

cancelling via fax is only used to make things hard on the consumer so they CANT cancel.. well it worked ..they got my money and not a damn thing I can do about it. I've never went thru anything like this before so I figure I'd warn people. Since everyone is against me I guess its commonplace to make money by stealing it.

Stingray... the negative responses you are receiving here are typical of many in this forum. I thank you for the tip about CWI hosting.

You are right that your mistake was not researching fully ahead of time.

Other than that, the professional way to handle your cancellation at CWI would have been to honor the 30-day money back guarantee with no questions asked, follow up with an apology stating that "we're sorry our services did not meet your expectations", and "if you should ever reconsider, based on further research, you will always be welcome at CWI."

I found the response by universal2001 to be the most disgusting of all the responses. If this individual is indeed a legitimate business, I am thankful I have no dealings with him. Just the words "Stingray, you deserved it." , and "I hate clients..." tells me volumes about this miserable soul, who doesn't seem smart enough to know that, regardless of the headaches it causes the business, "the customer is always right".

Hopefully, the astute hosting client will be spared some aggravation because of your post.

Well I did go overboard before. I had an experience once when webhosting.com didn't cancel my account after I faxed them a cancellation form. That's when you get mad.. You do what they say and you still get charged... And yea I didn't have a fax machine then, had to use my friends...

Stingray, doing manual labour for living should've taught you to value hard earned cash, but you seem to be totally unwilling to lift a finger to get your money back in this situation. I'm not defending CWI here, all I'm saying that this is your fault that you don't have the money back. If you've done everything they asked for when they asked for so little extra effort and you still didn't get your money, then i would support your cause 100%... but you didn't do sh!t to get it back... all you did is made an excuse for yourself why you can't do it... boohoo you work 12 hours a day... you above all people should've done everything in your power to get your hard earned cash back.

CWI, on the other hand, while conducting themselves badly, did absolutely nothing wrong. If their policy said you have to fax in to cancel and you didn't, they are 100% covered. You are lucky your credit card was renewed, otherwise you now would be down another $400 and there would be nothing you could possibly do about it... all because sending a fax is not a viable option for you.

Originally posted by Stingray
This may be a long story, but I want to warn anyone who may be even considering CWI to BEWARE

Before you think to yourself that I'm blindly sticking up for a fellow host, I'll be the first to tell anyone that for every high-quality host currently in business, there is another who is pure scum. I also think your heart is in the right place by providing this warning, however the underlying facts just don't support such a warning.

To be blunt, you have no one to blame for your current situation but yourself. You chose to ignore the clear cancellation instructions that CWI provided you with, you chose to ignore the situation altogether after March 2001, and you never checked your credit card statements or notified your wife to be on the lookout for any charges from CWI.

No one here is ganging up on you, but rather pointing out the obvious. Perhaps if you stepped back and re-examined the situation, you would realize where your responsibility lies in this, and that pointing the finger at everyone else for your troubles is a rather lame way of conducting one's affairs.

FYI, this post is from a man with a wife, two middle-school aged kids, and who up until recently spent 16-hour days single-handedly running an auto repair facility - and who has yet to use any of those things as an excuse for anything. Your personal situation is hardly unique.


-Bob

Originally posted by the-muse
You are right that your mistake was not researching fully ahead of time.

Other than that, the professional way to handle your cancellation at CWI would have been to honor the 30-day money back guarantee with no questions asked, follow up with an apology stating that "we're sorry our services did not meet your expectations", and "if you should ever reconsider, based on further research, you will always be welcome at CWI."


The "professional way" according to who?

It seems to me that the most professional thing CWI could have done was stick to the letter of their policies, which seems to be exactly what they did. If stingray did not agree with those policies, he should not have signed up - which, of course, takes us right back to the problem of him not reading the policies in the first place.

This was not the first time someone blew it by ignoring posted policies, and it certainly won't be the last. Sadly, people just do not learn.

-Bob

Bob asks The "professional way" according to who? ...


The "professional way" according to me, Bob, who has been in business since 1996, both on the web, and with my own building, with that philosphy.

Yes, it's only my opinion...

I agree with Stingray, based on his posts... it seems very apparent to me that CWI was seeking to make it harder than necessary for subjective reasons, because they "didn't like him".

From CWI> Mr MYNAMEXXX:
We have the proof showing that you did place an order and that it was sent to you and you agreed to the policy on our site. You are now responsible for carrying out the cancellation portion of the policy. You will need to send a fax to the following phone number 915-595-0173. By not doing this Visa/mastercard will clearly recognize that you agreed to policy which is legally binding and that you are now going against that policy. Your account still remains open as this is not a vaid cancellation.
>
> Have a good day.

"Have a good day"?

If anyone thinks the writer of that phrase sincerely means "have a good day", I have a server farm in Las Vegas that you can buy for $25.

Originally posted by the-muse
"Have a good day"?

If anyone thinks the writer of that phrase sincerely means "have a good day", I have a server farm in Las Vegas that you can buy for $25. [/B]

where do i pay? hehe...

I didn't even bother to read this whole thing but all I can say is CWI is lame for adding something like that to there policy. I have never heard of anything like this in my life with the exception of colacting servers or leasing dedicated servers.. If a customer does not want the service anymore within the 30 days it does not matter if he emails, faxes, calls or sends a message in a bottle he should get his refund. This is a lame attempt to put some BS in a policy because theyknow it will make it all the more difficult for you to cancel and they know most people only have 10 bucks or something spent so they prob wont bother going through the trouble of sending a fax unless they have one at home or in there office.. When it comes down to it I guess you will just have to learn a lesson and be very careful and read EVERYTHING when you go with a host. on the other hand I feel that was really lame of CWI to pull that.. If you offer a 30 Day MBG HONOR IT!

I agree... Clients should just be able to fill out an online form to cancel their account.. It's obvious it was put in place to make it harder for a client to cancel their account...

Let me just state I am not looking to get a refund as this is a lost cause. I had totally forgotten about CWI in the last year, so when I got the email last week I didn't even know who they were.

The point is

I thought this was a forum where people would go to research a host, I don't want anybody to make the mistake I made so I posted my story. Maybe it will help somebody who's thinking about CWI to not make my mistake.

CWI never mentioned their "cancel by fax only "when I signed up, There was however... "30 day money back guarantee" in a huge font.

I cancelled BEFORE they charged my card, it was literally 30 minutes between signing up and canceling.

I have been on the internet since 1993, since then I have had many ISP's and online services that I have used. Canceling was always a matter of a phone call or an email.

Here an example:

I ordered voice chat service for members of my site, after 5 months I saw it was not being used enough to justify the cost, I sent an email to the company explaining the situation and to cancel it. They cancelled it the next day and even credited back the current months payment!

That's a business! that's a company I will use again when I need that feature, That's a company I have recommended to fellow webmasters. that's the way to do business! to date they have received 6 new customers referred by me. Do you see how running a service honestly gets you more customers in the long run?

CWI's "fax cancellation policy" is there for one reason only, To make it hard to cancel. It would be easier to put porno on the site and let them cancel you! Why should people have to resort to that?

I bet if I wanted to upgrade a CWI account I wouldn't have to fax a request in.

Wow, why would any hosting company want this in an on-line record?

I could understand the first charge, but the second?

Even thought there is a process you'd think the company would want to avoid issues like this in the future as well as their reputation.

pgrote, never discount such important factors in any business operation as greed and stupidity :) either one being dominant is enough to ruin any business...

Originally posted by the-muse
Bob asks The "professional way" according to who? ...

The "professional way" according to me, Bob,

Well, thanks for clearing that up. I'll overlook the obvious arrogance of that statement and get right to the point...

First off, I'm not going to address the touchy-feely aspect of customer service issues here. I will say though, that based on what you have written, I'd hazard a guess that our philosiphies are more similar than not, and personally, I would have given the guy his refund and moved on. However, I still believe Stingray is 100% at fault here for the simple fact that he entered into a contract with CWI without bothering to familiarize himself with the terms of that contract. It's a classic tale of what happens when one does not read the fine print.

based on his posts... it seems very apparent to me that CWI was seeking to make it harder than necessary for subjective reasons, because they "didn't like him".

You're basing your whole argument on the word of a disgruntled CWI ex-customer - of course he's going to try and make them look bad, he's pissed. If, however, you'd be interested in some facts to go along with the hearsay and innuendo, try this:

The following is CWI's posted cancellation policy as of March, 2001, which is when stingray signed up with them, courtesy of the wayback machine:

Due to security concerns, all account cancellations must be done in writing via US mail or fax (915-595-0173) with a valid signature of the primary contact of the account, account name, address, domain name and reason for cancellation. The information on the cancellation must match our records. Phone requests and unverified email will NOT constitute acceptance of any cancellation. Payment will be made by company check within 15 days of receipt of cancellation or by issuing credits to your credit card if any refunds are applicable after cancellation.

here (http://web.archive.org/web/20010204120800/www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm) 's the link, see for yourself.

That was their posted policy - the very one that stingray ignored when he signed up for their services. It doesn't matter whether or not he likes it, he agreed to it. It is not contrary to any federal or state laws, and it explicitly states the conditions under which a refund will be issued. Furthermore, CWI said that they would issue a full refund upon receipt of the fax.

I think you're looking very hard for a reason to make CWI the bad guy here, but the bottom line here is that they did absolutely nothing wrong. Stingray, on ther other hand, blew it from the get-go.


Have a good day. :)


-Bob

well then TMX maybe it just comes down to morals, decency and the will to have a respected company. Most people dont search around for a cancellation policy when they sign up.

I am not disgruntled at CWI, It was over a year ago and their recent letter just made me laugh because there no way in hell they could get another penny from me. For the last time... I posted to warn other people about their tiny little fine print.

you know damn well why they have a cancellation by fax policy ,TMX

Just wondering about something.

Since by US Mail was also an option, why didn't you just mail one in?

I can understand the fax problem, I don't have a fax machine either and would have to drive 20 miles to get to one (yes, I am in the sticks). It would not make me happy to have to do that either. But my mailbox is just down at the end of the driveway and THAT I could do.

Originally posted by Stingray

Most people dont search around for a cancellation policy when they sign up.
Smart people do.

I am not disgruntled at CWI,
Obviously.

-Bob

I did not have the time to write a letter and mail it either, I called the credit card company and they needed a form by way of mail also so I did not bother... So I lost 2 days pay a year ago, who cares..

I made the post to warn other people, Apperantly I got the wrong forum. Thanks to you, I will now search out every other host forum and post my story.

I can cancel my gas, electric, house insurance, credit cards, cable, ISP, and my current host over the phone and in some cases email.

I need to fax CWI to cancel a host? thats ridiculous.


Phone requests and unverified email will NOT constitute acceptance of any cancellation

Was my email to them not verified? I signed up with that email, They sent my logon info to that email, they corrosponded with me over that email. They tried to bill me with that email.

How many of you that responded against me are hosts who run their business this way? please respond so people know

Stingray, you have my appologies... i feel like i insulted you by saying that you would be among the first to value your hard earned cash... apparently i couldn't have been more wrong...

and in case you are unaware email can be easily faked unless it's digitally signed...

Originally posted by Stingray
Was my email to them not verified?

Not by their standards.

"a) Send email to billing@cwihosting.com with CANCELLATION in capital letters as the subject.
b) Include your Full name:
c) Domain Name:
d) Reason or Statement of Cancellation:
e) User Name, and Password:
f) Last four digits of your credit car if one was used."

Your email:
Subject: CANCEL ORDER
"Please Cancel My request for hosting and do not charge my card, You have recieved bad reviews which were once good reviews. please email me back andlet me know status ASAP Thank you"

Let's go over this point by point.
a) Required subject: "CANCELLATION". Your subject: "CANCEL ORDER". That is incorrect.
b) Full name. Found only if they look in the email headers, and assume that it is you.
c) Domain name: Only in headers, must assume that it is a domain hosted with them.
d) Reason: Present.
e) Username and Password: No. No.
f) CC Digits: No.

Out of six requirements, you only met one. Unless this policy was different when you signed up with CWI - and I'm sorry about going on about this if it was - you are at fault for not having the account cancelled. In fact, CWI even provided a link to their policies - containing the instructions for a "verified email" - in their reply to your cancel request. And did you agree to their ToS when you signed up? I don't think they would set you up if you had not.

...but cwi could have been a little more helpful in their replies to your messages, if they insist on following their policy.

Originally posted by alexdg
Stingray, you have my appologies... i feel like i insulted you by saying that you would be among the first to value your hard earned cash... apparently i couldn't have been more wrong...

and in case you are unaware email can be easily faked unless it's digitally signed...

I do value my money, but when the trouble is worth more than the money it doesnt pay. Would you drive 3 hours to another state because gas is cheaper there?

one last note

A few months ago my current host was having a few problems, so to keep the site up I did some research and came up with V.O.

I ordered an account from them, later on I noticed they only allowed 50 concurrent sql connections. I emailed them and asked them if that would be ok for me since my website is a fansite to a nationally syndicated radio show and often gets on air plugs resulting in huge spikes of traffic.

I got back the most professional email I had ever saw, and they cancelled my account per my request VIA EMAIL.

I have referred 16 people to them since! (no BS) They are top notch quality and I never even used them!

that is the way a host SHOULD be

My current host fixed its problems the next day and I am still with them.

Originally posted by appletreats


Out of six requirements, you only met one. Unless this policy was different when you signed up with CWI - and I'm sorry about going on about this if it was - you are at fault for not having the account cancelled. In fact, CWI even provided a link to their policies - containing the instructions for a "verified email" - in their reply to your cancel request. And did you agree to their ToS when you signed up? I don't think they would set you up if you had not.

...but cwi could have been a little more helpful in their replies to your messages, if they insist on following their policy.

they have changed their cancellation policy since then, there old policy is below. since I have never recieved login info from them(I cancelled before they could send me it) I wouldnt know the IP, username and password
http://web.archive.org/web/20011020110203/www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm

I thought I would just stop by and comment on this topic:

I don't get a good first impression on people here at WHT when they say BEWARE of some web host or web hosting related product. Most, if not all of the time, their BEWARE is not legitimate. There is usually always some story behind this, and it can falsely give a web hosting company a bad impression.

On the other hand, I do agree with Stingray. Althought CWI does state all of this in their AUP, they should treat their customers with a little more respect and respond to all customer service inquiries.

Just some thoughts brought to you by Smidwap!

"Beware" fits perfectly to CWI, don't believe me? do a search on CWI on this board.


be·ware Pronunciation Key (b-wâr)
v. be·wared, be·war·ing, be·wares
v. tr.
To be on guard against; be cautious of: “Beware the ides of March” (Shakespeare).

v. intr.
To be cautious; exert caution: We had to beware of the icy patches on the road. Beware of the dog.

I've read many posts at WHT, and the word BEWARE has been used in a different context;) . It has been used as "Do not go near this host, they are horrible ALL AROUND". I am not saying this fits you at all. I actually agree with just about everything you've said so far including that last post.:)

It's interesting that CWI doesn't consider security when you're signing up there... they don't demand you fax your signup in. They don't mind putting your security at risk? Is that it?

I could fake a fax as easily, if not more so, than an Email.

I've got secure certificates at many of my sites. Not one of the issuing authorities required more than Email communication.

I've got about 100 domains registered at three different registrars. When I transfer a domain from one to the other, it's done by Email. The only time I had to fax anything was when the old Network Solutions required a fax for a change of ownership. That was in 1997. Some may still do it. But dotster and godaddy didn't make me fax anything when I had to change ownership of a couple of domains.

Somebody felt it necessary to quote CWI's cancellation procedure so that we could all see how wrong Stingray was. Well, here are some more quotes from their Terms, Conditions and Acceptable Use Policy:
Failure to follow any term or condition will be grounds for immediate account deactivation.
If Stingray didn't follow the "term or condition" about cancelling his account, CWI should follow their own policy and "deactivate it" immediately. They could have done it for Stingray without his permission. It looks to me like they wanted his money more than his respect.
All of CWI's web hosting plans are backed by a 30 day money back guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with our services or support within the first 30 days of your service, you will be given a full refund of the contract amount excluding setup fees, overages, long term agreements, or dedicated servers.
Well... it seems that Stingray was not completely satisfied with CWI's services and support. His cancellation and refund should have been issued on those grounds, no questions asked. Logically, under this clause, Stingray has every right to say, "I know I signed up and agreed to CWI's terms of service, but after thinking about it, I decided that I don't like CWI's terms of service. Since I have 30 days to make up my mind, CWI's terms of service are not really binding on me until I have made up my mind. I have decided to cancel and ask for a full refund."

No forms to fill out. Nothing but kind, parting words and a promise to try harder in the future.

It is common knowledge among adds-designers that sometings will pull you in and others will repell you...

Big letters: 30 day moneyback garantie! (In tiny, tiny letters at the bottom of a page: only valid for US (or something) residents in the small town of Billyburg.)

You expect: You don't like it within 30 days? Here is your money back.
(If payed with creditcard, send the money to the creditcard. If the cancellation was faked, the real client would get their money, not the one that canceled.)

You get: Nothing since most probably don't live in Billyburg.

Terms of service: a lot of legal language and small print...

You almost never read the full thing completely through, because it's too long and too complicated. How many of you read the license-agreement before installing some new software? You think you know what it says, so you don't read it. Based on expectations and experience, you THINK you know what it says, especially if the BIG PRINT says something you like. Not to mention, that after a quick scan the pattern seemes to fit what you're used to.

:) Stingray! Thank you for teaching us all about really checking even the finest print before signing up for anything. This entire thread clearly shows that. :)

CWI never said that customers have 30 days to decide if they like the terms of service. That makes no sense at all! 30 day money back guarantee means that if a customer cancels within 30 days, they get their money back. This does not mean they have 30 days to decide if they like the terms. After all, the order form has a check box which is used to indicate agreement to the terms of service. And I'm sure that CWI would not set up an account that did not agree to those terms. To use the money back guarantee, the account must be canceled. And that must be done with fax or verified email.

Stingray pointed me to the CWI ToS as it was when he signed up.

"When sending via mail or fax, a valid signature of the primary contact of the account, account name, address, domain name and reason or statement for cancellation is required...To Cancel via email, all the same information is required, and the Signature can be substituted with your current user name, password, and IP Address, and must be sent to billing@cwihosting.com. When canceling via email, the last 4 digits of the credit card are also required."

If you don't feel like reading through all of this, I'll summarize the points. Cancellation email must include:
*Account Name
*Address
*Domain Name
*Reason for cancellation
*User Name
*Password
*IP Address
*Last 4 Digits of Credit Card

Very few of which are found in Stingray's cancellation email.


Failure to follow any term or condition will be grounds for immediate account deactivation.
If Stingray thinks he should not have to follow their terms, why should they have to? :rolleyes: CWI indicates that "Phone requests and unverified email will NOT constitute acceptance of any cancellation". They also speak of their "right to cancel service at any time". Then, at the end of the ToS, they say: "Failure to follow any term or condition will be grounds for immediate account deactivation."
Cancel: to destroy the force, effectiveness, or validity of
Deactivate: to make inactive or ineffective
Different things. I don't think that CWI deactivated the account, however, their terms don't require them to cancel it. CWI still can bill for a deactivated account. After all, it still is using resources on their server, and the customer may fix the problems that caused deactivation, which would result in reactivaion. I'm not agreeing with CWI not cancelling the account, though.

I'm not defending CWI, at least I hope I'm not. As I said before, CWI should have cancelled that account based on Stingray's cancel email. And if they insist on following the policies, they should have told Stingray exactly what they wanted, not just given him a link to their policies.

I am pointing out that Stingray agreed to CWI's policy of cancellation, and then did not follow it. I'm also defining the 30-day money back guarantee, and finally I'm using sarcastic/stupid+moronic comments to respond to quotations from the CWI ToS.

Originally posted by the-muse
It looks to me like they wanted his money more than his respect.
Sure does.

CWI should have refunded, instead of playing some silly word game.

This is crazy, sue them!

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
CWI should have refunded, instead of playing some silly word game.

Yep.

When companies play those games, you know their client base is nearly 10 or more customers, and they want to keep you, and/or your money badly. In this case your money, because they didn't do a good job keeping you. :/ - Good luck in the future.

Yeah, I would say CWI didn't exactly do anything illegal, however just the way they treated their customer(s) was terrible. So maybe their client did not follow EVERY single step perfectly, but they should have never done what they did.

What many of you jumping down Stingrays throat have failed to notice was that for some reason the company never sent him his account info. Maybe it was because he cancelled so soon after signing up. They entered the billing info but did not set up the account in light of his cancel me email. Who knows, but him not having this information would make it impossible for him to be able to supply the info they were asking for to cancel. Is that his fault? Obviously not. They should have handled the whole situation a lot better then they did. Somone on their end dropped the ball. They should not have charged his card at all after receiving his email to cancel before they had set up his account or billed him. They billed him while not giving him the information he needed to cancel the account: (user name, password). That is just wrong.

Stingrays error was in not following things through in the beginning. Maybe he wasn't concerned about his refund, but in contractual situations you really do need to see an end to them to protect yourself. The sooner the better. If nothing else this should encourage people to follow through just to protect their a$$ ets:)

Mary Lee
2CoolBaby for 2Cool Parents and Kids
http://www.2coolbaby.com

Honestly, I can see faults on both sides. We had a customer several months ago sign up for service and then change name servers over to another provider a little less than three months into their service. They had signed up under the three months free (FrontPage special).

Well, just because a customer changes name servers to another ISP does not mean we know they have changed name servers. As far as our network was concerned, we were responding and fully operational to the customers’ domain. The customer thought they canceled simply because they signed up with another ISP (like changing long distance companies), but never bothered to tell us. (we get some level of ‘free trial surfers’ and this was clearly one of them).

Since this was a business customer with a good credit record, we went ahead and issued them net-30 terms at signup. As time went on (and we didn’t receive a payment), we eventually suspended the account and reported the customer as late to the credit bureau. It then went to collections where it was brought to our attention that the customer had changed name servers shortly before the 90 day trial was to expire.

Did they follow the established procedures to cancel? NO. We have these procedures in place so we can actually stop serving the account and prevent this exact type of hassle. A written (faxed) document is also helpful to prove it is actually the customer stopping service and not someone spoofing an Email. That’s right – the fax is to protect YOU (and us).

In the end, we still went ahead and wiped the debt and erased the derogatory mark on the customers credit file. I think that’s what customer service is - and the customer simply didn’t know better.

I suppose this experience helps me see the faults with both sides.

It really is difficult! If I had my own company, I would treat all the customers with respect, even if they were rude. Not an easy thing to do, I know, but it has to be done. People make misstakes. A simple (hopefully) question might clear things up, if asked in a friendly tone, with no assumptions.

And then of course, the customer should try and be polite and ask questions as well.

It is alwyas easier of the business and the costomer is in the same country, but with internet that might not be the case.

I know I have learned a lot about reading through properly BEFORE signing up.

real simple I get an e-mail from client saying cancel account abc.com. I pick up phone and call contact person for abc.com. Ask them do you really want to cancel, and if so was it something we did or did not do? If the person says that they do indeed want to cancel account, I close it when I hang up.

No hoops to jump through, just a simple e-mail and a phone call.

Originally posted by aleavens
real simple I get an e-mail from client saying cancel account abc.com. I pick up phone and call contact person for abc.com. Ask them do you really want to cancel, and if so was it something we did or did not do? If the person says that they do indeed want to cancel account, I close it when I hang up.

No hoops to jump through, just a simple e-mail and a phone call.

That's the way to do business!


Originally posted by BarrySDCA
As time went on (and we didn’t receive a payment), we eventually suspended the account and reported the customer as late to the credit bureau. It then went to collections

did you email or phone this customer? Did you try to see if they were in the hospital? Or did you just report them to the credit bureau?

After reading BarrySDCA's post, You couldnt pay me to even look at his website.

In any case, beware is a valid thing. What CWIhost did as out of the ordinary, making it esp. hard to cancel.

I cancelled an account at westhost.com and to my surprise, they said they would even refund me for the remaining weeks I had paid!

If a host can't even make an online cancellation order form, they can't run a hosting business. A cancellation order form is a win-win, saving both sides time and effort.

In addition, an online cancellation form that works! :)

Originally posted by Stingray
...
did you email or phone this customer? Did you try to see if they were in the hospital? Or did you just report them to the credit bureau?

After reading BarrySDCA's post, You couldnt pay me to even look at his website.

Stingray,

Please be more careful before you begin a flame war in a public forum.

Common sense dictates that we did make attempts to contact the customer, but I chose to spare those details to avoid making an already long message even longer. I believed my point was being made while sparing everyone from another paragraph of information that didn’t help convey my message any further.

I don’t expect you to understand what happens when one networks name servers resolve an MX record for a domain to a place OTHER than what the rest of the Internet is pointing to. The more tech savvy people on this board will realize that our Email messages were dropping into the customers Email account with us, and not the Email account at the customers new ASP. Additionally, the customer never replied to our postal correspondence (statements).

We send accounts to a third party collection agency after an account goes 90 days. We do this to free up customer service bodies to handle real customer issues and because they tend to handle collections better than we do. In the end, we voluntarily cleared up the customers Dunn’s record, forgave the balance and all was just fine. I didn’t feel there was a need to elaborate on any of these facts because the point had been made. If you had read my message fully (instead of reading your own words between the lines), you would have also known that this was a *business* customer. I find it hard to believe that an entire business would be in the hospital. We do not extend net terms to individuals.

The ISP you signed up with had a cancellation policy in order to avoid their customers from getting into the same predicament you found yourself in. You found yourself in that position because you chose to follow your own guidelines and jump to conclusions based on flawed assumptions, much like you have done in this reply back to me.

Please be more careful and think about what you are doing in the future. You will undoubtedly save yourself much hassle and aggravation.

Regards,

Well said Barry! :)

I'm sorry but I still do not see how Stingray is correct... you can't make up your own rules after agreeing to the ToS.

It was also made clear where you could see the terms you have agreed to. I did it myself, and found it was quite easy to navigate to the Cancellation section, where it explained the method of cancelling an account via email:


2) To Cancel via email:

a) Send email to billing@cwihosting.com with CANCELLATION in capital letters as the subject.
b) Include your Full name:
c) Domain Name:
d) Reason or Statement of Cancellation:
e) User Name, and Password:
f) Last four digits of your credit car if one was used.


Stingray did not do this at all... and it's quite simple. No need to complain about not having a fax machine, when you can do it all via email. Plus, if you randomly add OUTBURSTS OF CAPS in your correspondance with someone as if you are yelling at them, how to you expect them to want to hold your hand through the process?

If I were the rep on the other end, I'd be reluctant to offer any further assistance. 'dah well, this guy's being rude to me... (pastes prefab) ... on the the next email..'

:)

Originally posted by webhappy
In any case, beware is a valid thing. What CWIhost did as out of the ordinary, making it esp. hard to cancel.

I cancelled an account at westhost.com and to my surprise, they said they would even refund me for the remaining weeks I had paid!

If a host can't even make an online cancellation order form, they can't run a hosting business. A cancellation order form is a win-win, saving both sides time and effort.

Shucks, I cancelled an account at www.westhost.com and I never got a refund:bawling: .

Originally posted by ChickenFart
I'm sorry but I still do not see how Stingray is correct... you can't make up your own rules after agreeing to the ToS.

It was also made clear where you could see the terms you have agreed to. I did it myself, and found it was quite easy to navigate to the Cancellation section, where it explained the method of cancelling an account via email:



Stingray did not do this at all... and it's quite simple. No need to complain about not having a fax machine, when you can do it all via email. Plus, if you randomly add OUTBURSTS OF CAPS in your correspondance with someone as if you are yelling at them, how to you expect them to want to hold your hand through the process?

If I were the rep on the other end, I'd be reluctant to offer any further assistance. 'dah well, this guy's being rude to me... (pastes prefab) ... on the the next email..'

:)

Apparently you did not read this thread, this is one of my posts:

they have changed their cancellation policy since then, there old policy is below. since I have never recieved login info from them(I cancelled before they could send me it) I wouldnt know the IP, username and password
http://web.archive.org/web/20011020110203/www.cwihosting.com/policy.htm

BarrySDCA, I'll reply to you Sunday, I have work tomorrow and must get to bed.