It seems a new era in computing starting.

A group of Indian programmers have just announced the world’s first Windows-based online desktop called “Nivio” in Delhi, India’s capital. These Delhi-based programmers have certainly achieved something that has remained an impossible task for many majors.

http://news.google.com/news?ned=in&ncl=1117329788&hl=en
http://www.nivio.com
http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/june/june241.php

Let the lawsuits begin.

And Why so?

Only time will tell.

WOW! cool idea :D

It seems a new era in computing starting.

A group of Indian programmers have just announced the world’s first Windows-based online desktop called “Nivio” in Delhi, India’s capital. These Delhi-based programmers have certainly achieved something that has remained an impossible task for many majors.

http://news.google.com/news?ned=in&ncl=1117329788&hl=en
http://www.nivio.com
http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/june/june241.php
Love the idea, hate your thread title.

This is really nothing new, its been done many times before...

http://eyeos.org/

Wow very nice I just signed up for the beta

Love the idea, hate your thread title.

Thread title!

That is what is the title of the news, hence I just used it here.

This is really nothing new, its been done many times before...

http://eyeos.org/

But not on Windows. Microsoft sure will have an additional edge now, who knows they will takeover the project.

Pardon my ignorance, but is there a huge difference between this and remote desktop? I don't see how it would be hard at all to create this...

I looked at http://eyeos.org it looks good, but the only problem is how many would like to shift to it for day to day use.

Whereas what http://www.nivio.com offering is windows based, you don't have to convince people on the operating system platform.

Yes one thing people will be concerned of is privacy. As the provider will always be having access to users data.

But then again how many end user do you think even know about such technical things.

Even professionals who knows about privacy, security etc etc, keep on using HotMail, Yahoo & Gmail etc.

Pardon my ignorance, but is there a huge difference between this and remote desktop? I don't see how it would be hard at all to create this...

I have not tested it throughly yet, but a system like this you can use from your browser, so you need not have to have a specific OS on your PC.

As of difficulty to create such thing,

Some time back I was reading that Google & Microsoft both are trying to come out with similar solutions, you can see that google has got some offering, along with gmail account.

This article here explains it in a much better way than I can.

http://www.webyantra.net/2007/05/14/niviohe-world%e2%80%99s-first-windows-based-online-desktop/

I think I am missing something isnt this just windows remote desktop ?

Hope you had not read this article:

http://www.webyantra.net/2007/05/14/niviohe-world%e2%80%99s-first-windows-based-online-desktop/

Quoted from that page:
So how will this work out? Nivio is being offered as a web service; for a monthly fee (Rs 399 pm), you get access to the Windows desktop environment on the web. You can access it from any computer (whether running Mac, Linux, Windows) with a browser and internet access. Nivio requires Active X for working in IE, while on other browsers, it uses Java Applets. What you get as part of the standard package is Windows XP, 5 GB Space, automated backups, virus protection, antispam etc. Some applications are available free e.g. Open Office, Yahoo! Messenger, iTunes, Firefox et al, whereas some software will be available on paying a monthly fee e.g. MS Office. Users will get a synchronization tool that allows them to upload/download docs/files to Nivio from their regular desktop. Specific applications can be enabled in your account on demand, either free or on a paid basis.

Let the lawsuits begin.
http://www.nivio.com/strategicpartners.html ;)
anyways looks good i am giving them a try :agree:

http://digg.com/programming/AJAX_Remote_Desktop

Is that all it is??

Looks like its just Windows Remote Desktop/VNC style on a server where there are preinstalled applications.

And I guess as its a single workstation, the EULA allows one license for all their users purchasing commercial software.

Looks like its just Windows Remote Desktop/VNC style on a server where there are preinstalled applications.

And I guess as its a single workstation, the EULA allows one license for all their users purchasing commercial software.

What they say is

the architecture is globally distributed over several locations in category 1 data-centers

As the user base grows globally new nodes will be put in place to satisfy localized demand for Nivio services.

Try it they have a trial period which is free.

May be its just a work around, but if it clicks those guys are going to make big money.

But not on Windows. Microsoft sure will have an additional edge now, who knows they will takeover the project.

I give it two weeks untill microsoft buys them out or sues the pants off them.

My guess would be that Microsoft would wait for it to be popular before exercising their rights.

Then they can takeover the service and earn the money for themselves.

Microsoft is already a partner to it
http://www.nivio.com/strategicpartners.html

And yes it could also be a strategy of the creators to make it popular then sell it off.

They have there own forum, checkout what their users are discussing.

Vinsar - thank you for your thoughts. We hope a new era is starting as well!

Legalities of Nivio - as a firm we believe in doing everything above board- so rest assured that we have the consent from our partners to be able to provision the software we have on there.

Other online OS and Nivio - we are the only Windows Environment and this means we offer a lot more.

Nivio and Remote Desktop - Nivio is a managed outsourced PC. The whole thing is that it is is more than just remote desktop. Today the PC has 6 big problems

- Data Loss/ Software Incompatibility / Secuirty&Privacy /Virus&Spam/ Out-of-date / Accesibility (Remote access and PC uptime)

Nivio also allows instant software access for monthly rentals; this is for standard applications.

Nivio solves all of these - Remote Desktop solves ones part of one of them(Accessibility).

Nivio is also green as we useless power per user than a standard cpu and we allow people to use a 486 to run the latest Windows apps.

Privacy - we do not have access to a users files - they are one way encrypted. Also we keep all data right now in our Data Centre in Switzerland- the rules around privacy and data protection are very strong.

Architecture - We currently have a node in Switzerland and one starting up shortly in India. We will then replicate to other locations.

Hope that helps!

I like this, I only wish you guys didnt have monthly payment methods or had a very small introductry fee for the product. Like $49.99 for the full version, man you'd guys make allot of money and have tons of sign ups. Good luck with the product and thanks Rakesh for clearing that up.

It seems a new era in computing starting.

A group of Indian programmers have just announced the world’s first Windows-based online desktop called “Nivio” in Delhi, India’s capital. These Delhi-based programmers have certainly achieved something that has remained an impossible task for many majors.

http://news.google.com/news?ned=in&ncl=1117329788&hl=en
http://www.nivio.com
http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k7/june/june241.php

How is this different then terminal services?

Also, Sun has had this for years:

http://www.sun.com/software/products/sgd/index.jsp


edit: for those that are too lazy to follow the link yes you can run MS apps, and Linux apps, and Unix apps....

Let the lawsuits begin.

That's what I tought, Microsoft will be b1tching about it

If it is infact remote desktop then SPLA would be ok, MS office and others are avaliable via SPLA. This is not new.

Why would I need this if I always carry my laptop with me?

Not every one carry a laptop always.

Not every one carry a laptop always.

Then use Sun's global desktop.

Then use Sun's global desktop.

That will be an individual's choice, which you and me can not control.

It is good to see products like these coming from India. My sincere hope is India should slowly steer away from "service" sector and start creating own products which will sell in the long run. Kudos to the team.

I don't think this is very innovative.

1. Many other projects like eyeOS, etc. exists. And they don't need Java installed.
2. A Live CD is definitely much faster than an Internet OS.
3. Why get their service for $12 a month when you can stick your data into a 1GB Thumbdrive for $20+ one time?

Many of them do exists, but none on windows platform.

Remember when MS-Dos was introduced.

Again as said before, its an individual's choice whether he/she want to carry a laptop or pendrive or subscribe to nivio or may be any other similar service.

You have an option to chose from.

Why start a new hosting company when so many already exists?
Why start a new general store when you already have so many around?

The list is so long.

Remember when MS-Dos was introduced.
You mean when MS bought 'dos' for a very little amount of money and put MS- in front of it? ;)

Its onto you how you interpret it.

Hey Guys,

Thank you for the feedback - it has been interesting to read.

Let me try and explain some of the concerns;

- Other providers; we believe that a lot of people have solutions to the 6 problems I wrote about however we think a lot of them have taken a myopic view to solving them - what do i mean - let me ask you some questions

Can you find a single vendor that provides
- Ability to access a windows desktop from anywhere on any device (ok so today its Mac, Linux and Windows plus some phones!)
- Ability to choose software and have it installed in seconds?
- Ability to use it like a normal desktop ?
- Sync your data to it and back - thus allowing you to work offline if you want.

- What about hosted citrix, hosted TS or SGD - they have some inherent problems that have taken us over 2 years to fix.

- They dont operate like a normal desktop (in SGD for example you cannot use multiple applications in the same window)

- They dont give you the freedom to install apps or to rent them; any app (ok so our list is still building but we are talking to all the bigs s/w guys) - infact soon we will let you install any app you want even if it is not in our library ! (Due date to be confirmed!)

- Allow you to sync your data?

Our trip in life is not to be a hosted desktop and you will see in the coming months the kind of things we are doing that will really demonstrate the power of having a desktop in a datacentre!

Fee / Free / One time

At present we are evaluating some other models that may allow us to provide the service in a different model but I have been sworn to secrecy on this!

Carry Laptop
What if you lose your laptop?
What if you forget to sync the data?
What if you need an app for a short time?
What if you get a lot of spam or viruses?

Why use nivio when you have a thumbdrive?
What happens if it gets corrupted?
What about the ever increasing situation where net cafes are blocking them?
WHat about gettings apps for a short period instead of getting a pirated CD that will somehow mess up your system?
What about the stress and anxiety caused by different versions and sync'ing headached?

Hey Guys,

Thank you for the feedback - it has been interesting to read.

Let me try and explain some of the concerns;

- Other providers; we believe that a lot of people have solutions to the 6 problems I wrote about however we think a lot of them have taken a myopic view to solving them - what do i mean - let me ask you some questions

Can you find a single vendor that provides
- Ability to access a windows desktop from anywhere on any device (ok so today its Mac, Linux and Windows plus some phones!)
- Ability to choose software and have it installed in seconds?
- Ability to use it like a normal desktop ?
- Sync your data to it and back - thus allowing you to work offline if you want.

- What about hosted citrix, hosted TS or SGD - they have some inherent problems that have taken us over 2 years to fix.

- They dont operate like a normal desktop (in SGD for example you cannot use multiple applications in the same window)

False. Please try the hosted demo at https://sgddemo.sun.com/ The applicatons run in a single session, each in their own window, just as they would on your desktop. Because it's java-based, you actually get the native L&F: if the SGD application is MS Word 2003, then you get the windows toolkit L&F: even on a Mac. Not only do you get the naitve L&F, but you can:

"From a single device access Windows, Solaris, Linux, AIX, HP-UX, AS/400 and Mainframe applications, all at the same time."

More information at http://www.sun.com/software/products/sgd/index.jsp



- They dont give you the freedom to install apps or to rent them; any app (ok so our list is still building but we are talking to all the bigs s/w guys) - infact soon we will let you install any app you want even if it is not in our library ! (Due date to be confirmed!)

No - all the apps are provisioned by wherever the SGD servers are. If I, as a hosting provider, offered SGD, then I could set up a provisioning system that allowed people to "rent" applications.

If I, as a hosting provider, offered SGD, then I could set up a provisioning system that allowed people to "rent" applications.

Then why not start doing it instead of bashing up some one who is trying to.

It is easier said than done, if you can come up with better option/service you will be welcome too.

We all know that not every one is going to switch to it, but those who want to will use it and that number will be real big.

Then why not start doing it instead of bashing up some one who is trying to.

It is easier said than done, if you can come up with better option/service you will be welcome too.

We all know that not every one is going to switch to it, but those who want to will use it and that number will be real big.

I apologize if you took my comments as "bashing" - I am not bashing, just stating a point that there is technology that exists that meets your criteria. Not only that, it has been around for years. As you have stated that this is revolutionary, I felt it necessary to contribute another talking point to the discussion.

We have no desire to offer a solution in this space, as it is not our niche. We are not a swiss army knife, we more liken ourselves to a surgan's scalpel.


Regards,

I apologize if you took my comments as "bashing" - I am not bashing, just stating a point that there is technology that exists that meets your criteria. Not only that, it has been around for years. As you have stated that this is revolutionary, I felt it necessary to contribute another talking point to the discussion.

We have no desire to offer a solution in this space, as it is not our niche. We are not a swiss army knife, we more liken ourselves to a surgan's scalpel.


Regards,

Agreed.

I think the only thing revolutionary is that Microsoft is actually your partner.

Agreed.

I think the only thing revolutionary is that Microsoft is actually your partner.

:)

We like Sun more but they really come up short in the productivity space....

Love the idea, hate your thread title.

Indians are great and i really love this idea but prefer windows desktop what i posses now.

These guys are freaking stu***!

I signed up for their program and guess what?
They send me an email saying that prospective testers are going to be reviewed.
That email is cced to censored@nivio.com.

Some genius replied to the email sent, and got sent to censored@nivio.com.
It turns out that anything sent to censored@nivio.com sends to everyone in their customer base.

Great move! Now I'm getting spammed by different email addresses by people replying to that email.

Yeah Im getting allot of people replying to the emails to, they should fix that asap.

Haha , thats quite funny.

To add insult to the injury, their user base ain't all that smart either.

Everyone's going stop it, then someone replies saying I agree, and it goes on.
Seriously...

They are idiots. I got bombed with ~ 150 of those type of emails.

Yup.

They fulfilled my 'entertainment' for tonight (in a sarcastic, angry, pissed off sense).

I got :

1. 1 email with attachments (.wmv).
2. Alot of unsubscribe me emails.
3. Alot of cap locks.
4. Alot of hellos.
5. Alot of 'stop it' and 'I agrees'

I just love my privacy.

See the guy spamming his blog?

On 6/21/07, Lucas Fontes <lucas@dimension.com.br > wrote:

is everybody reading this ?
thats bad.......


--
Lucas Fontes



Oh i love this...

ok.. i set some filters in my mailfoundry. hopefully im done with this.

See the guy spamming his blog?

Yea. Sounded so innocent too.

These guys are freaking stu***!

I signed up for their program and guess what?
They send me an email saying that prospective testers are going to be reviewed.
That email is cced to censored@nivio.com.

Some genius replied to the email sent, and got sent to censored@nivio.com.
It turns out that anything sent to censored@nivio.com sends to everyone in their customer base.

Great move! Now I'm getting spammed by different email addresses by people replying to that email.

What a huge pain in my ***, I'm getting hundreds of emails.

The best part has arrived apparently.

They sent out an email telling their users its a mistake with their list server.
The offending list server has been taken down.

Then, some guy ccs the emails to another address.
Previously, it was emails to nivians@nivio.com that will bounce it to all users.

This smart guy emailed emailnivians@nivio.com, and I received the mail again.


Bob <mrgrosser@gmail.com>
to Lucas Fontes <lucas@dimension.com.br>
cc
Sachin Duggal <sduggal@nivio.com>,
emailnivians@nivio.com
date Jun 22, 2007 3:04 AM
subject Re: An apology from teamNivio - Explanation and Clarification
signed-by gmail.com

Apparently not! hahaha

On 6/21/07, Lucas Fontes <lucas@dimension.com.br> wrote:

So.
now its fixed right ?


Why this link is pointing to http://www.smxtech.net/ ?????????
- Show quoted text -



On 6/21/07, Sachin Duggal <sduggal@nivio.com> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam



First and foremost I would like to personally apologise for the trouble you have faced and the inconvenience caused due to the email / list server situation today. I fully understand how frustrating it would have become.



What happened



We were wanting to send an email out to all users that are waiting for the Beta activation just to keep them informed on the status. In order to do this we compiled a list of the addresses and put them into a list box on our mail server.



Due to human error the list box was not configured correctly and when people started replying-to-all the emails circulated and caused mass inconvenience to all that were pending activation.



As soon as we realised the mistake we took appropriate action to stop the email server. I appreciate that there was a time lag and we have made changes to the way we escalate issues to ensure this kind of time lag does not occur again.



Certain posts have been deleted from the forum due to the nature of their language not as a cover up attempt by teamNivio.



Your email addresses



Your email addresses have not been shared with anyone, the offending list server has been taken offline and the email addresses in that particular list box have been deleted; that list box has also been deleted so that anyone emailing [send email to nivians@nivio.com via gmail] nivians@nivio.com will now get a bounced email message.



Apology



I cannot apologise enough for this mistake but assure you that this will not happen again. We value your trial of our new service and sincerely hope that today's incident will not put you off from trialling the service.



Kind regards





Sachin Duggal

Chief Executive Officer

Nivio



http://www.nivio.com



E-mail: [send email to sduggal@smxtech.net via gmail] sduggal@nivio.com



(Without Prejudice)



The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of Nivio , unless specifically stated.










--
Lucas Fontes

I opened up my e-mail for the first time today to get a whole 137 emails from this "list"... is it actually fixed now? I didn't bother to read all of them. :P

What kind of "company" would allow this to happen? They must have set up a mailing list within cPanel or something and didn't realize that mailing list meant what it meant.

Hey Guys,

I wanted to apologise for the headaches you have all had with our email situation today - it was down to human error which I know is not a consolation.

It is worth mentioning that no email addresses were leaked or got into the public domain.

We will ensure this does not happen again.

Rakesh
teamNivio

Hey Guys,

I wanted to apologise for the headaches you have all had with our email situation today - it was down to human error which I know is not a consolation.

It is worth mentioning that no email addresses were leaked or got into the public domain.

We will ensure this does not happen again.

Rakesh
teamNivio

I was expecting some one from the company to back on this issue. It is good to hear that the problem has been solved.

Interesting, I signed up for Beta.

This product is nonsense. Do they think their special because they downloaded the source code for VNC and customized it for a few months? This is not a new concept folks, but it seems the only people posting on this thread that are "excited" about this thing are in India themselves.

The majority of the software and creative work that comes out of India is of the same caliber as the customer service/tech support the thousands of call centers over there provide, which is absolute garbage (in my experience as a provider of hosting services, and a consumer of general electronic goods here in the USA).

Dear Seankoons,

We have not used VNC as the protocol. Infact we have spent over 2yrs building Nivio which includes the scaleable architecture, the ability for you to install software on the fly for short durations and the ability for you to sync your data.

The key here is the service not the technology; no-one else is providing a nivio-like service currently on the web with the functionalty that Nivio has.

Rakesh
teamNivio

The majority of the software and creative work that comes out of India is of the same caliber as the customer service/tech support the thousands of call centers over there provide, which is absolute garbage (in my experience as a provider of hosting services, and a consumer of general electronic goods here in the USA).

I think you have some personal grudge towards Indians otherwise you would have not given that statement.

Do you know today most of the major software companies like Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Adobe etc are having their products developed and tested here.

Big companies like GE, IBM, HP and many others are getting there softwares and products quality tested and debugged here.

Some of the major banks across the world are running on Indian softwares.

If you will look properly the majority of the software and creative work that comes out of any where is of average level.

You are talking as a hosting provider from USA, what is the percentage of quality provider there itself?

I think you have some personal grudge towards Indians otherwise you would have not given that statement.


I don't think so, far from it. Being in the IT industry for over 10 years, you run into alot of Indian and Pakistani folks. Alot of them are my good friends. I harbor absolutely no ill will against any people of any race or creed. I don't know where you saw that in my post?


Do you know today most of the major software companies like Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Adobe etc are having their products developed and tested here.
Doing quality testing for software requires very little skill and originality, it's more 'grunt' type of work. Keeping logs, running through all features and functions, etc.


Big companies like GE, IBM, HP and many others are getting there softwares and products quality tested and debugged here.
Sure, but their not writing their original software there, are they?


Some of the major banks across the world are running on Indian softwares.
Sure, there are good things that come out of there as well, but I made it clear that I spoke in terms of a hosting provider. I've used Kayako and other similar software from India and in my humble opinion, it wasn't worth the rupees I paid for it.


If you will look properly the majority of the software and creative work that comes out of any where is of average level.
That's a very broad statement, and I disagree. You get what you pay for in most cases, for example trying to cut costs and getting your website developed from a crew in India for pennies on the dollar of what it would cost you here in the US or UK is not a very good move. I've seen about a dozen horror stories to that effect, and have experienced the same myself.


You are talking as a hosting provider from USA, what is the percentage of quality provider there itself?I don't even know what that statement means, but if your inferring that there is low quality service providers everywhere, you are right I agree, but I find in my opinion dealing with tech support in India and buying Indian-based hosting industry software to be sub-standard and poor in quality.

Dear Seankoons,

We have not used VNC as the protocol. Infact we have spent over 2yrs building Nivio which includes the scaleable architecture, the ability for you to install software on the fly for short durations and the ability for you to sync your data.

The key here is the service not the technology; no-one else is providing a nivio-like service currently on the web with the functionalty that Nivio has.

Rakesh
teamNivio

You have definitely amazed me with the service.
How could you have done nothing to stop the spamming of your customers for hours...

Stopping it was probably just a click of the mouse to remove the list.
And it took you guys hours to do it.

And AFTER that, you still managed to allow someone to email the mailing list with a slightly changed address.

If this is the kind of service you're selling, good luck.

The majority of the software and creative work that comes out of India is of the same caliber as the customer service/tech support the thousands of call centers over there provide, which is absolute garbage (in my experience as a provider of hosting services, and a consumer of general electronic goods here in the USA).

That's a pretty harsh statement to make, I'm not personally taking any offense, but be a bit more careful with that next time, as I can certainly see why others will take offense.

I think you have some personal grudge towards Indians otherwise you would have not given that statement.

Do you know today most of the major software companies like Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Adobe etc are having their products developed and tested here.

Big companies like GE, IBM, HP and many others are getting there softwares and products quality tested and debugged here.

Some of the major banks across the world are running on Indian softwares.

If you will look properly the majority of the software and creative work that comes out of any where is of average level.

You are talking as a hosting provider from USA, what is the percentage of quality provider there itself?


This is all true, as it was done to reduce costs as labour is obviously a lot cheaper out there.

I think it's all down to personal experience, most people hate the call centers with a vengance which is why most of the UK banks have moved them back.

But this doesnt mean that the support or dev work is substandard out there.

Allthough from my experience it is a bit less organised.

And we all learn from our mistakes i'm sure the after the email entertainment things will be monitored a lot more :)

This is all true, as it was done to reduce costs as labour is obviously a lot cheaper out there.

I think it's all down to personal experience, most people hate the call centers with a vengance which is why most of the UK banks have moved them back.

But this doesnt mean that the support or dev work is substandard out there.

Allthough from my experience it is a bit less organised.

At the end of the day wages will rise in india and it wont be such a cheap option for companies, then we will have a level playing field.

By the way, I don't in any way think that the support there is substandard.

But their mastery of English leaves much to be desired, whereas others who HAVE mastered English speak with an accent I find hard to catch, and the breakdown in communication makes it a pain in the @ss for me to communicate my problem to them.

Thumbing my nose at the boss and his henchmen.

Woohoo now i can bypass security at work!
Thumbing my nose at the boss and his henchmen.

haha a cunning plan! :roll2:

This thread is about a product, not who created it. I suggest the title is changed to "Windows on the Web" instead, so the focus can change.

This product is nonsense. Do they think their special because they downloaded the source code for VNC and customized it for a few months? This is not a new concept folks, but it seems the only people posting on this thread that are "excited" about this thing are in India themselves.

The majority of the software and creative work that comes out of India is of the same caliber as the customer service/tech support the thousands of call centers over there provide, which is absolute garbage (in my experience as a provider of hosting services, and a consumer of general electronic goods here in the USA).

....people don't get more ingorant than that.

That's a pretty harsh statement to make, I'm not personally taking any offense, but be a bit more careful with that next time, as I can certainly see why others will take offense.

....people don't get more ingorant than that.

After my conversation with layer0 via PM, he pointed out how insensitive my comments could have been viewed as, and for that, I apologize to the community.

I should have not let my frustrations with Kayako and other bad experiences with Indian-based software and support play a part in my post. :blush:

Not only were your comments insensitive but also are false . You dont have any idea on what all have been developed by Indian companies , you are only aware of some small web development companies like kayako, i dont think you have experienced the services of bigger companies or even the contributions of Indians to many companies around the world .

Not only were your comments insensitive but also are false . You dont have any idea on what all have been developed by Indian companies , you are only aware of some small web development companies like kayako, i dont think you have experienced the services of bigger companies or even the contributions of Indians to many companies around the world .

His statements may have hurt your feelings but I don't think they're false.

Over the years I've had dealings with several Indian companies and individuals on software projects and the caliber of the work (and the overall experience) has always left much to be desired. Many US companies jumped on India at first for cheap dev services and it didn't take long for them to shift the focus of their Indian workforce to debugging/support as a previous poster pointed out.

I'm sorry if it upsets you to hear it but there's a reason a lot of outsourced dev work (especially in the enterprise market) is going to eastern-European nations right now. They provide innovative and quality work and (usually) don't resort to the "shake-down" business tactics which have come all too common in India. A lot of US companies have given up on outsourcing all together which is great for the dev market here simply based on their Indian experiences.

Case in point; a very large public-sector organization here in the US recently had to walk-away from a software project they'd invested close to $250K in due to quality and what I'll term politely as "cultural issues." The stories I heard from consultants over there would have been completely unbelievable if I hadn’t been down that road myself a few times.

I'm sure there are good (and honest) programmers in India. I’m sure, like you said; Indians have made contributions to the general advancement of software. Like the previous poster I can only comment on my own experiences over the years and they’ve been overwhelmingly poor.

(Racism! Grrr...)

Well, just for your information, Directi (ResellerClub) is an Indian company as well. There're several others too, but I don't have time to compile a list.

1. Never used Directi before can't comment.

2. There ARE good people there (hell duh), but I must admit I have had extremely bad experiences with support there.

Directi = ResellerClub, LogicBoxes, Skenzo and WebHosting.info. Never used any of em?

Yes, I agree. Its quite difficult to find good support guys or coders with above-average skills, but thats due to the population, so the Good:Bad ratio is quite low. ;-)

But you can't deny that (some) Indians "are" great innovators.

Poor support, bad software etc has nothing to do with a country specifically.

This simple and universal rule apply every where You get what you pay for.

If you really want good support form India based person or company, search for them the same way you do for USA, UK or any other country based service provider.

People go for cheap solution providers from India and not for quality solution providers from India. Then blame all Indian service/solution providers to be of low quality.

Its simple if you are searching for cheap you will get cheap.

Someone remarked on Kayako as not being worth the money, I have never known that its an Indian company, since I have never used it.

But still its the most popular helpdesk or support suit out there in hosting industry.

Someone remarked on Kayako as not being worth the money, I have never known that its an Indian company, since I have never used it.

But still its the most popular helpdesk or support suit out there in hosting industry.

Kayoko is very popular and known to many the IT industry. It is an indian company and more over indians are master peice in every sector of development. I think most cannot accept that indians are talented than anyone. :agree:

Kayoko is very popular and known to many the IT industry. It is an indian company and more over indians are master peice in every sector of development. I think most cannot accept that indians are talented than anyone. :agree:

Some indians are talented.

But I frankly vormit at Indian support.
Most of the time I get more confused after speaking with them.

Some indians are talented.

But I frankly vormit at Indian support.
Most of the time I get more confused after speaking with them.

..while most of the time you don't even know you're speaking with one. Some are good, but you don't even know about the "most" (rest) ;)

Some indians are talented.

But I frankly vormit at Indian support.
Most of the time I get more confused after speaking with them.

May be most of them are confused too after speaking to you.

So one man confused dealing with lot, and lot of them confused dealing with you.

Have you ever dealt with an irritating, unintelligent, good for nothing kind of client?

Some indians are talented.

But I frankly vormit at Indian support.
Most of the time I get more confused after speaking with them.

Can you speak, read or write Indian languages, can you provide satisfactory support to non English speaking clients.

At least they are trying to support you in your language, if you can't understand them, there is something wrong with you.

Try providing support to people who does not know English and you will see how you will rank yourself.

Some indians are talented.

But I frankly vormit at Indian support.
Most of the time I get more confused after speaking with them.

i dont know how many times I have contacted customer care of several US companies and they been unable to even understand my problem .

And you wouldnt even have interacted with even say 0.1% of the Indians , and yet you can come to conclusions about them ??

Also i think people should know its not just the people of the US that have to supported , there is a whole world out there .

His statements may have hurt your feelings but I don't think they're false.

Over the years I've had dealings with several Indian companies and individuals on software projects and the caliber of the work (and the overall experience) has always left much to be desired. Many US companies jumped on India at first for cheap dev services and it didn't take long for them to shift the focus of their Indian workforce to debugging/support as a previous poster pointed out.

I'm sorry if it upsets you to hear it but there's a reason a lot of outsourced dev work (especially in the enterprise market) is going to eastern-European nations right now. They provide innovative and quality work and (usually) don't resort to the "shake-down" business tactics which have come all too common in India. A lot of US companies have given up on outsourcing all together which is great for the dev market here simply based on their Indian experiences.

Case in point; a very large public-sector organization here in the US recently had to walk-away from a software project they'd invested close to $250K in due to quality and what I'll term politely as "cultural issues." The stories I heard from consultants over there would have been completely unbelievable if I hadn’t been down that road myself a few times.

I'm sure there are good (and honest) programmers in India. I’m sure, like you said; Indians have made contributions to the general advancement of software. Like the previous poster I can only comment on my own experiences over the years and they’ve been overwhelmingly poor.

250,000$ is a very small amount , Big giants like google , microsoft , yahoo have R&D centers in India , if your experiences have been poor , then its the company to be blamed for not properly training the staff .

This debate is ridiculous.

Firstly, no one debates that the US software industry is far ahead not only India, but most of the world. The US is the top innovator in software.

India's software industry is very small, immature. Outsourcing started it off, and still is the major driver. But as the industry grows and matures, the necessary skills and talent are emerging. Creative companies are emerging. There is a still long way to go, but I have no doubt that the indian software industry is capable of competing with the rest of the world.

As for those that say software outsourcing is dying in India, you are totally wrong. India still holds the largest share in the outsourcing pie. IBM, Microsoft, Google and Intel are all rapidly scaling up in India. IBM has 50,000 people in India, that will go up to 100,000 by 2010. Intel and Cisco, both have their largest IT operations outside the US in India. The software Industry (not techsupport outsourcing) is worth $30 Billion, and is second in value only to the US. Yes, thanks to American outsourcing.. but why India?

If software was dying in India, why don't these companies move out to Eastern Europe or Pakistan or China? Why are they scaling up?

That said, I can't see the US being nudged from the top position as a software innovator anytime in the near future. India has alot of catching up to do. I believe American software engineers (coming out from universities such as CMU, Stanford, GeorgiaTech, etc) are far superior to Indian software engineers because the sort of education American universities provide isn't matched in India, I don't think its matched anywhere.

Also, there is always a flip side to outsourcing. IBM recently said that its fastest growing market is India. This is true for many tech companies. Only recently IBM, won a $750 Million contract from any Indian company to develop software/instrastructure:
http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/itservices/story/0,10801,91687,00.html

The difference between Indian and US companies is simple (at large);

US Companies: Product Makers
Indian Companies: Service Providers

You, can't compare each other in any way and both can't survive witout each other.

The difference between Indian and US companies is simple (at large);

US Companies: Product Makers
Indian Companies: Service Providers

You, can't compare each other in any way and both can't survive witout each other.


And tomorrow who knows the roles will be reversed.

That said, I can't see the US being nudged from the top position as a software innovator anytime in the near future. India has alot of catching up to do. I believe American software engineers (coming out from universities such as CMU, Stanford, GeorgiaTech, etc) are far superior to Indian software engineers because the sort of education American universities provide isn't matched in India, I don't think its matched anywhere.

I must completely disagree with this . There are not just American engineers graduating from those universities , there are a lot of international students as well , what you completely oversee is there are 7 continents in this world and not just two countries and there is no comparision but the debate is about wether Indian developers are good or not ,and i dont think the US is on top of the software industry either .

The difference between Indian and US companies is simple (at large);

US Companies: Product Makers
Indian Companies: Service Providers

You, can't compare each other in any way and both can't survive witout each other.

There are not just two countries in this world .

And if one isnt there the other would adapt and still survive .

It is still in its beta ages but not a bad idea.. However it is garbage lol.. HOWEVER this will lead the way for many others :)

I also hate the thread title.. The word "Indians" doesn't mean East-Indians but is actually a racist term for North American Aboriginals.

- Steve

And tomorrow who knows the roles will be reversed.


Yes the roles would soon , i think the US currency value too is reducing in India. Lets see i think Indians are better in every aspect, which you people cannot accept. If you need we can prove it.

Yes the roles would soon , i think the US currency value too is reducing in India. Lets see i think Indians are better in every aspect, which you people cannot accept. If you need we can prove it.

Now your just being silly.

Yes the roles would soon , i think the US currency value too is reducing in India. Lets see i think Indians are better in every aspect, which you people cannot accept. If you need we can prove it.

Seems like no one excepts truth on this forum except a few :D :rolleyes:

Ok, sorry Biju just couldnt resist....

Now your just being silly.

Exactly. Biju is taking it too far. Everyones good at something, not just Indians. Russians make GRREAT hackers, btw. ;-) :stickout:

Signed up a couple days ago to have a look, but still no beta activation information... the message seems to say that it could be a while before they actually give you access to see it in action.

Yes the roles would soon , i think the US currency value too is reducing in India. Lets see i think Indians are better in every aspect, which you people cannot accept. If you need we can prove it.

Some Indians may be better, but your childishness definitely isn't.

Yes the roles would soon , i think the US currency value too is reducing in India. Lets see i think Indians are better in every aspect, which you people cannot accept. If you need we can prove it.


I love it when these silly responses start, always makes me laugh.

We are better than you and my dads bigger than your dad crap.

Grow up.

China will probably own all our asses in the end anyway :stickout:

China will probably own all our asses in the end anyway Finally someone's talked abt china - Chinese and Japanese were always ahead in technology. Japan in particular is considered #1 in high-tech lifestyle. Indians love R&D.

Regarding the CCing of emails : A similar incident (http://anjanesh.blogspot.com/2007/06/local-alert-burrp-mumbai-user-emails.html) occurred by burrp.com.

Nice conversation-stories on tech support - rinkworsk (http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/).

Chinese are good in Hardware manufacturing and Japanese are good in embedded software technology only. There is no comparision of other world with them.

Invention from EU, Innovation from US, R&D by Indians thats how it works :)

This is interesting why would anyone want a online version when you probably have a version already installed on the pc your using to connect with?
Isn't this more for the internet cafe people that don't have pc's at home or internet connections?

This is interesting why would anyone want a online version when you probably have a version already installed on the pc your using to connect with?
Isn't this more for the internet cafe people that don't have pc's at home or internet connections?
I agree this will be very useful for one browsing at diffrent places..

i dont think it is a very feasible project

Maybe i'm dreaming... but I feel potential of such projects is transformational... a successful project backed by a global major could spell the end of the PC.

Maybe i'm dreaming... but I feel potential of such projects is transformational... a successful project backed by a global major could spell the end of the PC.

Okay, and how to you plan get to this "Web Windows" without a "PC" and/or Internet connection? :)

HAHAHA, who started this all. you people would curse us and we should be silent watchers right here.

HAHAHA, who started this all. you people would curse us and we should be silent watchers right here.

Well, c'mon, lets stop it here. :agree:

Majority of WHT members may not like to use the nivio system or any other similar system, but the world is too big and beyond members here.

Most of the members here are power users, most of the members here need to have their own PC, Laptop, Palmtop and servers. But then there are many out there who simply need to have a system where they are not required to maintain it, most of the user are there who need a system to be with them when they need it and they are not required to carry it on their shoulders.

There was a time when you listened to music just on your radio then you have online streaming audio & video.

There was a time when business were afraid of online concept and now they have their entire business online.

There was a time when you met face to face to your soul mate and now you are dating online.

There was a time you need to have a PC each for your staff and now you have thin clients.

.
.
.

So today you have a PC for you and tomorrow you will be using a system like nivio.

Of course from your own PC, Laptop, Palmtop etc.

I believe Microsoft is investing in a hosting PC solution too. There are tons of advantages:

1) Low monthly cost.. no need to buy a laptop or an expensive computer
2) You can easily upgrade your hardware with the click of a button
3) You don't need to worry about backups, or any other problems. You'd have full 24x7 support available to you
4) Access your PC anywhere, at anytime

I personally just use https://secure.logmein.com/home.asp access my pc from everywhere

Okay, and how to you plan get to this "Web Windows" without a "PC" and/or Internet connection?

Imagine that the need for a HardDrive, RAM and a few others is gone and replaced by a simple machine/device with internet connection & communication method (keypad/mouse/touchpad/joystick... take your pick) connecting to a absolutely reliable, secure, fully-manage, web-pc (windows or linux or mac… take your pick) that performs all the functions of a PC & with speed equal or better and is full managed (hardware & software) by a DC.

You will agree its far better to colocate than to setup server(s) at you office, basement, garage, home... similarly if a software could make it better, safer, more reliable to have a hosted PC... economics tend to change when volumes kick in and an 'IT daddy' decides to push the product.

The biggest supporters would be,
- Licensed software companies - (save on anti-piracy costs, simply monitor a million DC than trillions of individual PC for compliance)
- Corporations - secure all your company data at a central location and save on IT costs, even have your own hosted PC DC
- New users and startups - easiest for persons entering or with low investment to adopt new technology than for old-timers to start changing

If you use Hosted-exchange or Gmail for your emailing solution, your must have started experiencing that your local server/PC is fast becoming a backup storage for your emails and the hosted-exchange / Gmail is taking over as the frontline system.

I personally just use https://secure.logmein.com/home.asp access my pc from everywhere

even we have used logmein , especially on windows servers if client messes up tcp/ip settings , this comes in handy. but nivio is offering such a service without the need to host the service on your desktop or server , their service is more like remote desktop accounts . but with their own protocol

Majority of WHT members may not like to use the nivio system or any other similar system, but the world is too big and beyond members here.

Most of the members here are power users, most of the members here need to have their own PC, Laptop, Palmtop and servers. But then there are many out there who simply need to have a system where they are not required to maintain it, most of the user are there who need a system to be with them when they need it and they are not required to carry it on their shoulders.

There was a time when you listened to music just on your radio then you have online streaming audio & video.

There was a time when business were afraid of online concept and now they have their entire business online.

There was a time when you met face to face to your soul mate and now you are dating online.

There was a time you need to have a PC each for your staff and now you have thin clients.

.
.
.

So today you have a PC for you and tomorrow you will be using a system like nivio.

Of course from your own PC, Laptop, Palmtop etc.

I think this product is best suited for power users , you might not want to carry your notebook everywhere you go but still want to access your private vpn or even use public key authentication to login to your server without having to set them up on every computer you use .

even we have used logmein , especially on windows servers if client messes up tcp/ip settings , this comes in handy. but nivio is offering such a service without the need to host the service on your desktop or server , their service is more like remote desktop accounts . but with their own protocol

By using nivio you add another layer of complexity, you dont need to sync files if they are already on your own desktop.

Imagine that the need for a HardDrive, RAM and a few others is gone and replaced by a simple machine/device with internet connection & communication method (keypad/mouse/touchpad/joystick... take your pick) connecting to a absolutely reliable, secure, fully-manage, web-pc (windows or linux or mac… take your pick) that performs all the functions of a PC & with speed equal or better and is full managed (hardware & software) by a DC.

You will agree its far better to colocate than to setup server(s) at you office, basement, garage, home... similarly if a software could make it better, safer, more reliable to have a hosted PC... economics tend to change when volumes kick in and an 'IT daddy' decides to push the product.

The biggest supporters would be,
- Licensed software companies - (save on anti-piracy costs, simply monitor a million DC than trillions of individual PC for compliance)
- Corporations - secure all your company data at a central location and save on IT costs, even have your own hosted PC DC
- New users and startups - easiest for persons entering or with low investment to adopt new technology than for old-timers to start changing

If you use Hosted-exchange or Gmail for your emailing solution, your must have started experiencing that your local server/PC is fast becoming a backup storage for your emails and the hosted-exchange / Gmail is taking over as the frontline system.

Doubt that will happen soon.

People like to keep data to themselves.

Doubt that will happen soon..

Correct.


People like to keep data to themselves.

Not too sure about that, when you trust your e-mail/data to Gmail/Hosted-exchange providers... e-mails tend to contain almost everything. If someone has control over your e-mail account they can virtually get into 90% of your online systems, accounts, banks and loads more.... thanks to link like 'forgot your password, click here...'

And still 90% of e-mail users use/trust yahoo, hotmail, google, loads of hosting providers (big, small and tiny) with their e-mails, 70% of whom cannot be contacted in the physical world.

So if we have microsoft, oracle, mac, yahoo, google hosted web PC, many would trust, as their trust requirements are low.

they had somthing like this on G4 but i cant remember the name. It was a gentoo disto and it was almost all web based. You pay a fee monthly, but its based on ur internet connection and by what i seen it blew because u had to wait for everything.

Love the idea, hate your thread title.

i bet your american

only americans get unhappy about indians being called indians

what colour are you black or white?

or does thatquestion offend you

Why is this so special, tehre are many more companies that offer windows-hosting which supports remote desktop..nothing new to me..

this is browser based , using their own protocol and not remote destop

I agree with Tech4Server, but it is apparently obvious that they are using some sort of KVM/IP protocol or running these off of some sort of VPS architecture, it's the only logical way I could think of. I do not see how these guys are going to make any money through this, at $10.. I mean the lowest license I've seen even for OEM's like DELL is about $40 for XP. It does look nice, though, I would just want to let users know, if it runs like a Celeron 1.3 GhZ - it's due to unavoidable network latency and well, the harsh reality of Windows :)

I still think people will prefer to take their notebooks/handhelds with them. Or accessing their own PCs remotely.

Being in posession of something is more satisfactory, than renting it. I think it is human psychology.

I still think people will prefer to take their notebooks/handhelds with them. Or accessing their own PCs remotely.

Being in posession of something is more satisfactory, than renting it. I think it is human psychology.

Amen to that! :)

The concern I have is whether this can be responsive enough on real-world broadband and mobile Internet connections to actually enjoy running applications. I'm not wild about VNC even on my LAN with its slight lag. (Never did get a demo login after filling out their request form a couple weeks ago)

I still think people will prefer to take their notebooks/handhelds with them. Or accessing their own PCs remotely.

Being in posession of something is more satisfactory, than renting it. I think it is human psychology.

True, but what percentage of people can afford to have their own datacenter or colo server to renting one ?

True, but what percentage of people can afford to have their own datacenter or colo server to renting one ?
If I could get a datacenter for three years of server lease payments, I would have gone that way :stickout: :D

At $12.99/month we're about 2/3 the cost of a dell notebook financed over 36 months, and they are happy to finance it for you too.

I'm just not sure. This could be interesting; for example you could install a very cpu intensive application and they could run it on powerful hardware that would cost you much more... since you're only running the app for a few minutes a day, you get speed, and they can distribute the resources between hundreds of users who each get a share allowed to spike when they need it. And they could backup the data on raid-1 plus offsite which could be much more secure than keeping everything on a notebook harddrive that is banged around.

But will it be responsive enough?

How much do I trust any third-party to backup my data and not lose or corrupt something? (since I likely still have to keep a backup of everything myself, that negates advantage #2.)

I'm not sure.

True, but what percentage of people can afford to have their own datacenter or colo server to renting one ?
I meant personal things, like your notebook PC with family pictures in it. Your emails, your poems, writings, artworks etc.

Renting a server is totally different thing. People wont buy datacenters, as they won't buy airplanes to go overseas once in a year. They won't buy trains, buses, ships, schools, restaurants etc. etc.

Indians are surely creative people :)