This forum is really starting to get...uninteresting. Before, the odd template or site would pop up...we'd all look at it...say "oohhh ahhhh" or..."try again"...and that was that...someone would buy the template and everyone would be happy.

BUT NOW...all there is here is templates. Every post is a bloody template...and for the most part, they're all the same cookie cutter hosting sites time after time. I have nothing against trying to make a bit of money off selling some templates, God knows we could all use a little extra cash. But it would be nice if people would start putting a few hours/days into their work and make it mean something, rather than taking half an hour to make some cheap ass looking thing and try and sell it for $10. Take some time...work on it...sell it for $100.

I used to love to come here and look at the new templates and ideas and see who was selling what...but now it would take hours to view all the new templates...and 95% of them would not be worth the effort I put into clicking on the link.

Sorry for the rant...

Did you buy any of the $100+ ones? I'm guessing the reason we're seeing cheap "cookie cutter" templates is because that's what the people here are buying.

Lighten up, it could be worse, you could be seeing people here offering 'unlimited' templates. :)

Chaps, its true a lot of us make templates trying to catch a fast buck. But lots of people are newbies to design, practicing their skills, and hey why not try and sell them anyways, looks good on their porftolio.

But it isn't just the designers, a lot of buyers at WHT go for low low prices, and designers have to cope with that. Low Pay = Low quality work, right ? You get what you pay for!

How many times have you heard someone say " 50 bucks " when you know that design would sell 250 somewhere else?

I guess theres both that mix, the hard workers who get underpaid, and the underworkers who get overpaid.

Hi Chaps,

Basically many people here feel like it is the opportunity to "jump on the band-wagon" and make a quick buck or two...and that is exactly what you are seeing by the number of template for sale posts. It seems like everyone owns their own "hosting company" these days, so why not everyone owning their own "designing company"?

Unfortunately, this may hurt some professional designers (as compared to amateur) trying to sell their time-consuming, hard work. Many consumers have turned to "cheap" rather than "quality"...but in the end, you get the consumers running back here saying "I've been burned about XX time(s)" and they learn their lessons. Of course, and obviously, this is not the case with all, but in my findings it seems this way.

Kind regards,
Marc

Originally posted by petertdavis
Lighten up, it could be worse, you could be seeing people here offering 'unlimited' templates. :)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ...unlimited templates!

Yes I understand all the points you guys listed...but it's just getting flooded like crazy. And it's causing prices to drop on templates that are worth far more and that's not fair to designers who are ACTUALLY putting some time in. I've seen templates that should be going for 200-300 dollars going for like...50-60 because people have already spent their money on cheaper, lesser quality, cookie cutter sites. It's really a dissapointment.

That's why templates are:

1. a waste of time on the developer's side
2. a cheap thrill for the buying party

Cookie cutter sites are sooo 1998.

timechange! I didn't know you were in the graphics business! I saw your porftolio a long time ago, do you post at DBM or SL ?

I feel like this. Im a designer that actually does take time. You guys have just described exactly what its like!

Originally posted by nohealing
timechange! I didn't know you were in the graphics business! I saw your porftolio a long time ago, do you post at DBM or SL ?

Hey nohealing :D

Hmm I am clueless as of what DBM or SL stand for? :confused:

designsbymark.com & somethingleet.com , they're forums. I thought you posted something, but I'm not sure. I've seen your folio before though.

Originally posted by nohealing
designsbymark.com & somethingleet.com , they're forums. I thought you posted something, but I'm not sure. I've seen your folio before though.

Never been there :D But I sure will.
Thanks for the pointers.

I think most of you are right.

The fact is, clients come to these place, just like they do with SP, because they know they get quality for cheap. Many designers, such us myself, won't even submit our best designs, knowing that we're not going to get the money that they are worth.

There was actually a contest (a good while back) that created a big discussion about how fair these types of contests and template offerings are. Where a client wanted a topline design for something like, $50.

Let's face it guys. Most of these people aren't going to pay what the design is worth. If they planned on that, they would have just hired a studio to do it. They want to see how much they can get for very little money.

To prove a point. I entered a template, and started the bidding at $150 with a buyout of $200. Guess how many people responded to that.....lol

Well-put, idoogle. Nice and clean layout, BTW.

I think the main problem is that young kids out of *cough* grade school get hold of PSP or whatever and run a couple of "kewl" filters on a doodle, to make a "rad" deee-zign that then slap on some typeface embossed outlined SHADOWED errrr whatsamacallit on :D and ask $8 for it. Say whoooaat?

Beer is good.

Originally posted by idoogleceo
I think most of you are right.

The fact is, clients come to these place, just like they do with SP, because they know they get quality for cheap. Many designers, such us myself, won't even submit our best designs, knowing that we're not going to get the money that they are worth.

There was actually a contest (a good while back) that created a big discussion about how fair these types of contests and template offerings are. Where a client wanted a topline design for something like, $50.

Let's face it guys. Most of these people aren't going to pay what the design is worth. If they planned on that, they would have just hired a studio to do it. They want to see how much they can get for very little money.

To prove a point. I entered a template, and started the bidding at $150 with a buyout of $200. Guess how many people responded to that.....lol

Well put, sometimes I've spent hours working on my templates and try to sell it for 70 or 100 bucks, but most of the webhost always get hooked up with the 10 or 20 bucks templates which required only 5 or 10 mins.

If they need that kinda template, most of us here could probably make 30 or 40 a day, but a hosting company should be professional and get something good for their clients, afterall how often do you change your template?

They've caused a big drop in template prices :bawling:

I agree.

Many of the hosts just "settle for less" so to speak. How do they even plan to compete, with othe hosting companies that actually care about their customers?

WARNING - DO NOT READ THE CONTENT BELOW IF YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ABOUT STARTING A HOSTING BUSINESS! BECAUSE YOU WILL MOST PROBABLY BE WASTING YOUR TIME READING THIS LONG POST! :D

there have been some good incisive and analytical viewpoints expressed here in this thread above.

as WHT grows larger, there will only be increased levels of competition. so i guess with each passing month there will be more and more of such cheapie templates being offered.

what is plainly evident is the general idea that most newbies seem to easily get here in WHT! that just by purchasing a $30 +/- reseller account they can... viola... 'open' their 'own hosting company'! the ironic part is there is nothing wrong in this idea itself but in the way most newbies mistakenly go about setting up their hosting ventures!

i also often wonder why 'COMMON SENSE' is called 'COMMON SENSE' when it is in reality 'NOT AS COMMON'! :D

when most people wish to open up a new brick & mortar store, shop or office, they make a considerable $$$ investment in getting the internal environment to look decent... paint, wallpaper, furniture, flooring, attractive lighting, craftsmen, etc. why? because if they did not do so, it would be very difficult to run their business successfully.

opening up an e-business or an e-store is even worse! The competition out there on the internet is mind-boggling! and with each passing day the competition only increases. But there is an ocean of profit to be earned via the internet. several thousands of millions! and again, with each passing day, more and more people are getting used to the idea of purchasing products and services over the internet. so in a few years from now, e-biz & e-trade will account for not several thousand millions, but in fact, several hundred billions!

who will end up succeeding getting their fingers into this exponentially growing e-pie? only those who understand the simple fact that visitors to their websites will not trust any e-biz worth its name if they can't even afford to set up a decent homepage! there are several hosting companies out here who are fantastic hosts and extremely dedicated and skilled in what they do, but new visitors will never realize that until they sign-up and experience it for themselves! right?!!

and what are the common factors which makes visitors decide to sign-up with a particular hosting company? not one factor but quite a few factors... but when you think about it, one of the most important is the 'trust factor'.

let us take the example of an average visitor...

would he tend to trust an xyz host with a plain vanilla cookie-cutter homepage OR would he tend to trust a host having an attractive and visually pleasing homepage? unless a visitor is referred to a host by an acquaintance or heard something good about the host elsewhere, most of them are naturally wary about placing their trust in an unknown host (or any e-biz for that matter!)

a visually pleasing & impactful design seen on a host's homepage goes a long way to instill a positive feeling that makes it easier for the visitor to feel that he can trust the host. in fact a few smart newbies re-invested their first earnings earlier into sprucing up their websites as soon as they could afford it. but nowadays, with the increase of competition a hundred-fold, it has become impossible to get many clients with a crappy looking homepage anymore. so what do smart newbies do nowadays... they understand the importance of starting out from 'day one' with a decent homepage.

and those that aren't smart from day one keep on wondering why they aren't receiving any business! LOL!

its so funny to think that in spite of the costs of having a decent homepage being so low these days... i am guessing a decent homepage created by a competent web designer is generally available between $100 to $500... but not many newbies are even willing to spend such a low amount nowadays.

it just shows their stupidity in not understanding the importance of having decent looking interiors for their website (i.e. web design). it just shows that they aren't at all serious about their e-biz venture!

it also just shows that these same stupid newbies are willing to spend $50 to $100 +/- at a classy restaurant or at the movies or on buying new attire or even on getting a hairdo. heck, some even spend that much on cigarettes in a month! but when it comes to spending an equivalent minuscule amount on their web site, they think they are spending too much! LOL!

companies like pixelbrick and 2advanced charge thousands of $$$ for their services. and people pay these fees willingly! why? why? why? because these people are very intelligent. they know that in today's cut-throat competition on the internet, such services are definitely worth all this money... they know that by spending these thousands of $$$, they will be earning a hundred times on their investment easily.

so which is a smarter option? investing a thousand bucks on a decent looking website once and then earning several thousands on this investment month after month?

,,, OR ,,,

investing $30 dollars on a crappy average looking website and earning nothing worthwhile at all month after month?

a few smart guys in here who have common sense know the correct answer. most of the stupid guys in here do not know the correct answer because, as i said above, COMMON SENSE ain't really as COMMON in the first place! :D :D :D

:Claps for Chang Lee:

Man that was very well put. You have summarized the very essence of why 2A, PixelBrick, and ourselves (AvidNewMedia.com) are actually seing less and less customers, as those clients find offers such as these. We do however, get the bigger (smarter) clients. AND You're right. Those "bigger" companies, are "bigger" because they are smarter.

If you are cheap about setting up your business, then your visitors will see you as cheap, and will not buy a thing. Now, don't misunderstand, you will get some of those customers that found you on the net, and don't know any better, but chances are, you will never get any quality clients.

IMO, a lot of the designers found in these boards, are cheating themselves A LOT!

There are very talented designers here, and in other boards, that are getting bottom dollar, for top dollar designs.

well said chang. :agree: these expenses are investments. why should it be a problem if a logo/design costs so much when it is a tax write off. besides, we live in a world that is built upon first impressions. this is important for the business and this is where the designer comes into play and has an important role. to communicate the clients ideas and image to the masses.

that is why i don't participate in contests. it degrades the value of your work and i take a great deal of pride in my work. if someone creates a contest, to me that is someone who doesn't take his/her business serious and that is someone who i don't to do business with. :cool:

Oh where were you all, when I posted something similar a couple of months ago, and everyone wanted my head on a plate :D

And here is another thread - not that old one - about similar "doodle dee-zains" ;)
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61118

We do VERY FEW contests as well.

We will enter if it strikes us, as something to do, when things are slow. However, for the most part we don't enter contests.

We of course will sell off unused templates, but we sell them at "normal" template price.

You're right. When you enter your work into contests that are only paying $30.00 or with hosting, man that's kind of an insult.

What most of the contest holders don't understand is that many more folks DON'T need hosting, than those that do. For example, why would our company (AvidNewMedia) new hosting? We are a full service development company with our own hosting services.

IMO offering hosting, is yet another "cheap" way out, since it actually costs mosts hosts nothing anyways. They basically got their work done for nothing.

Come one guys...spend the extra cash and impress your visitors!

to bad, i wasn't a member back them. i'm still pretty new to this board. :)

sometimes it just takes someone to start it up and voice an opinion. surely others will follow if that vioce is loud enough. :D

idoogleceo-

i understand. i guess that is why most of my business comes from word of mouth and not through the net. maybe things will change.

i feel so much better knowing that my past clients are happy and more than satisfied enough that they recommend me to anyone. that in itself is very rewarding. more so than money. ok maybe not.:D but you get the idea. :)

We get a lot of our clients through word of mouth and through tradition sales and marketing. Getting business through net alone is a good way to commit eBiz suicide....lol