Hey,

UnlimBand just received this email (spammed but oh well)

IMPORTANT - URGENT

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am a solicitor from one of the biggest law firms in the world. I recently
saw a site that has you company's web address on its blacklist. I just
wanted to tell you that you should protect your company's image as well as
your customers' loyalty. What this website has done to your company is
totally illegal and is misleading the consumers which may have great impact
on your sales. You can send warning messages to that website and may also
report to the authorities for further actions. (If you wish to contact them,
it is best to search the WHOIS database, I have attached his address below:
)

****** ********
P.O. Box 10541
Rockville, MD 20849
US
************

The site's URL that has your company in its blacklist are:
http://www.rnwebdesign.com/unlimband/blacklist.html
http://www.unlimband.com/unlimhosts.html


You are among this black list:
001Hosting.NL
1PlanHost.com
2MHost.com
9CY.com
AdeptHost.com
Allbizhost.com
AllSite.co.uk
Beachcomber-Creations.com
BlueDomino.com
Burlee.com
Carolina.net
Cellhost.net
ChennaiHost.com
*****.com
CIWebHosting.com
ClassicHosting.com
ColaHost.co.uk
CyberWorldHost.com
DataPacket.net
DomainsVision.com
DonHost.com
1DollarHosting.com
001Hosting.NL
2MHost.com
ActiveWebHosting.com
AdeptHost.com
AlwaysWebHosting.com
Allbizhost.com
Beachcomber-Creations.com
Bluezebrahosting.com
BlueDomino.com
Burlee.com
CaptainJack.com
Carolina.net
CCEdwards.com
ChennaiHost.com
*****.com
CIWebHosting.com
ColaHost.co.uk
CyberWorldHost.com
DomainsVision.com
Escape.com
FastHosts.co.uk
FlashWebHost.com
*********.com
GoodShellz.com
HostingFree.com
HostGenius.net
***********.com
Hosting-Canada.com
HostOnce.com
InetSmart.com
InstantWebsiteDesign.net
InterLand.com
InterScot.net
Just-Hostit.com
KwSonline.com
LfcHosting.com
Millennium-WebHosting.com
myHosting.com
NortexSolutions.com
One2Host.com
OnTargetHost.com
Ossai.com
PenguinHosting.net
SabreGroup.net
SmartRat.com
SpaceforHost.com
Technolojik.net
Techscape.com
wantsomegetsome.net
Website-Works.com
WebSolo.com
Win2000Hoster.com
WISOL.com
1PlanHost.com
Allbizhost.com
Cellhost.net
DataPacket.net
ParCom.net
phpwebhosting.com
ReadyHosting.com
Realm-Net.com
RefHost.com
WebIntellects.com
WebReseller.net


Yours sincerely,

Alex




What should I do? Does this guy have any legal backing?

Jim

if this list is your personal opinion about these hosts than not, at least i think so.

Tell him to screw.. You can blacklist whatever you want because that is your opinion. You might want to check with a lawyer but I think he is just trying to bust your nuts and get taken off the list.. Why dont you email him tell him to stop offering unlimited and then your opinion will change :D

Sounds like this Alex who wrote you is definitely an effective ambulance chaser, he heard that siren off in the distance, and he's thundering after it scattering injunctions, writs and legal briefs in his wake.

He's right, blacklisting is a form of defamation, which is illegal, and he may be looking at getting some sort of class-action suit together-those can be very lucrative. Or just trolling for individual clients.

Most likely, he sent that same email to everyone on the blacklist, and some of them are companies with their own legal departments, like Interland.

I would expect things to get ugly if Interland finds out that someone's blacklisted them.

change the blacklist.html to my_opinion.html :) to start.

yes maybe changing it to an opinion page instead of a blacklist page... that would look atlot better.....

and tell those companies when they contact you that you are just informing the general public of the mis-leading business practices that they are doing.

Yes change it from a BlackList to a Warning Page. Something like that. To blacklist is illegal. However, to give your opinion is not as long as your opinion is backed up by facts.

I would talk to a lawyer to make sure.

Regards,
Michael

You're treading on very shaky ground. You flatly state:

"Web Hosting Companies that advertise "Unlimited Bandwidth" are giving out false information."

Boy, that's a statement that could lead to big legal problems, EVEN IF you prevail in court. You could be forced to spend thousands or tens of thousands to defend your position -- or just end up shutting down the site to make the suits go away.

Medium to large companies can sue you out of existence, even if their suit has no merit. This could be a serious problem, since your site has no substantive revenue model.

I would suggest that you change your statement to:

"It is our opinion that Web Hosting Companies that advertise "Unlimited Bandwidth" are giving out false information."

And pepper your commentary with "in our opinion". You should also include a legal disclaimer which clearly states that the comments are opinion only, and that readers should NOT use this opinion as the sole reason for selecting or rejecting a Web hosting company.

These changes will go a long way to protecting yourself against any legal pressures.

I agree that you should consult a lawyer Jim. That being said, if I were one of these hosts, I wouldn't be too quick to jump on a site like yours, unless they can prove that they are not engaging in deceptive advertising practices (ie putting UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH in big letters on their front page, and putting a disclaimer in size 2 font on the 6th page of their contract).

Either way, good luck :).

Wow. Hasn't this been brought up before? Numerous times? Blacklist are not legal. Especially when you promote them and have things for some idiot competitor host who wishes to point out the blacklist. Your Unlimiband button for example. We support "Blacklist" is what it is telling people.

While I have no issue with your sites ideas, they are actually very good, blacklisting I do not agree with. It will be interesting to see where this goes. Probably no where. But I am sure you will get more of these like before.

yeah, what hostpath said. That is what I was trying to say....

It appears that some hosts were added towards the bottom of the list that are not even on your list. WebReseller.net??? (Since when do they offer unlimited bandwidth??) Not only that but why would a reputable attorney be sending out emails notifying people instead of using registered mail.

For this to go anywhere in court, this reputable attorney needs to give you a formal notice to cease and desist. (This has to be sent via registered mail!! Not email). Only after giving you the opportunity to change the site can they even attempt to take this to the legal system.

You know what, on rereading that letter, the guy is full of crap. There is no way that letter was written by a real lawyer.

A couple of red flags:


"I am a solicitor from one of the biggest law firms in the world."


Uh huh. The largest law firms in the world, don't solicit clients through spam. The largest law firms have more clients than they know what to do with, they don't need to spam. They also charge exorbitant amounts of money, so suing you would not be worth their time. They would also have to know that 99% of the companies on that list could not afford them.


I recently saw a site that has you company's web address on its blacklist.


"a site" is slang, certainly not the type of phrase you would expect to find in legal correspondence. "you company's" is missing an "r". Even small law firms have proofreader's that check all correspondence before it is distributed to clients.


What this website has done to your company is totally illegal and is misleading the consumers which may have great impact on your sales.


"totally illegal"? Not exactly a legal phrase. Generally, if a lawyer is soliciting business, they will describe the law being broken. Totally illegal does not describe the infraction (most likely slander/libel -- I forget which one is print).


You can send warning messages to that website and may also
report to the authorities for further actions.


Again, not a legal remedy. You do not send warning messages, you send cease and desist orders via certified mail. You also cannot report this to "the authorities" because it slander/libel is a civil, not a criminal offence.


Yours sincerely,

Alex


In the correspondence my wife and I have had with our lawyer he has always used his full name, followed by "Attorney at Law". Certainly, if this jackass was a spamming lawyer, he would at least sign the message with his full name and title. The Alex signature is simply too familiar to be done by a lawyer.


In short, someone is trying to mess with you. However, I do think it would be a good idea to follow some of the suggestions listed above, and if you have the money contact a lawyer about the site.

Yes, absolutely right. Please don't change the Unlimiband site. There is nothing they can do, even if they wanted to. (in spite of all the 'legal action' mumbo jumbo that people spout here)

Originally posted by lightnin
There is nothing they can do, even if they wanted to.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Apparently you don't know how the legal system works. You want to know what's going on out there in the world of cyber legality? Read this:

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28276

This guy has spent $2.2 MILLION defending himself in a case that would appear, at least to me, that he's 100% clearly and totally CORRECT.

It doesn't matter whether these hosts listed in the blacklist are right or wrong. They can sue thate site out of existence. They also DON'T have to send you a cease and desist order before suing, as was erroneously stated above.

Any time you take on a crusade of this nature you have to ask yourself "Did I not think at some point I would have to make a stand and defend my position/opinion?"

I think you've done quite well putting it together and wish you the best in this.

Originally posted by hostpath.com

They also DON'T have to send you a cease and desist order before suing, as was erroneously stated above.

This is why you need to check with a lawyer before proceeding, since none of us are lawyers. That being said my understanding is that, in the United States, a cease & desist order has to be filed prior to initiating a any sort of lawsuit for monetary claims.

I am no lawyer, but I saw this one episode of The Practice and they did this thing where they sued and won because ......... blah-blah :)




I think Allan is right. It looks like it was written by a kid.

I would be careful, I dont think there's any cut and dried answer to what is considered libel/slander on the web. This story appeared awhile back on Salon.com

Free speech and the Internet; a fish story
A legal dispute between online aquatic plant enthusiasts and a pet supply store illustrates the perils of casual opining on the Web.
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/04/aquatic_plants/?x

Originally posted by hostpath.com


WRONG WRONG WRONG. Apparently you don't know how the legal system works. You want to know what's going on out there in the world of cyber legality? Read this:

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28276

This guy has spent $2.2 MILLION defending himself in a case that would appear, at least to me, that he's 100% clearly and totally CORRECT.

It doesn't matter whether these hosts listed in the blacklist are right or wrong. They can sue thate site out of existence. They also DON'T have to send you a cease and desist order before suing, as was erroneously stated above.

Man, anyone can sue anyone for whatever they choose. But if you spend your life running in fear from people suing you for stupid things, then you may as well just crawl in a hole and die.

lightnin:

I'm not suggesting he take the site down and "crawl in a hole and die," I'm saying rather that he should make sure that it is clear that his site is offering OPINION. He also needs a disclaimer, which is lacking.

my understanding is that, in the United States, a cease & desist order has to be filed prior to initiating a any sort of lawsuit for monetary claims. [/B]

No, not true. You can sue just about anyone for just about anything at the drop of a hat. No C&D notifications are required as a prerequisite to a civil suit. C&D's, also known as "demand letters," are used as a method to correct infringing behavior without the need to actually file suit.

Here's a quote:
"While it is common practice for intellectual property attorneys to send cease and desist letters before filing infringement lawsuits, there generally is no legal obligation to send such a letter prior to filing suit."

http://www.duanemorris.com/publications/pub18.html

Originally posted by hostpath.com
lightnin:

I'm not suggesting he take the site down and "crawl in a hole and die," I'm saying rather that he should make sure that it is clear that his site is offering OPINION. He also needs a disclaimer, which is lacking.

Agreed on the disclaimer. That's a good idea. They CAN sue without a cease and desist, however it would not help their case one bit in court to not have a good faith attempt to rectify the situation before wasting the court's time.

Thanks for everyone's input, I am taking everything in.

Currently, the site no longer says BlackList, but Unlim. List. Hopefully it will now be a list of just Unlimited Hosts...not saying that it is bad or anything ;)

Also, I am not going to shut my site down for these sissys, I will wait everything out and see if anyone is stupid enough to sue me.

One more thing, I am looking into lawyers, if anyone knows of one that I could talk with, or maybe you talk with him and post what he says about this, it would be very helpful.

Thank you everyone,

Jim

Originally posted by jimb
Thanks for everyone's input, I am taking everything in.

Currently, the site no longer says BlackList, but Unlim. List. Hopefully it will now be a list of just Unlimited Hosts...not saying that it is bad or anything ;)

Also, I am not going to shut my site down for these sissys, I will wait everything out and see if anyone is stupid enough to sue me.

One more thing, I am looking into lawyers, if anyone knows of one that I could talk with, or maybe you talk with him and post what he says about this, it would be very helpful.

Thank you everyone,

Jim

If they do sue, I for one would be willing to contribute to Unlimband's legal fund. I'm pretty sure others would as well. :)

Yep - Count me in!

If they sue, just tell them to bring the following to court:
A copy of their TOS
A document showing that they have contracted with an unlimited bandwidth provider, and
A unlimited Hard Disc Drive in to court with them.

Originally posted by ATST
If they sue, just tell them to bring the following to court:
A copy of their TOS
A document showing that they have contracted with an unlimited bandwidth provider, and
A unlimited Hard Disc Drive in to court with them.

:rolleyes:

They won't have to bring anything.

Thanks for everyones support! :)

Also, Im looking @ the possiblity that if someone was to sue that I could contract a lawyer on the basis of if we win the lawsuit that we would counter sue or something like that.

If anyone has any ideas, please post ;)

Jim

By the way I got this guys spam.

He is a total ass. He was totally rude to me because I supported your site Jim.

I have a copy of all of his emails, this guy has spammed everyone one of these companies.

He also emailed us from a hotmail account.
Return-Path: <alesdel@hotmail.com>
Received: from hotmail.com (oe18.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.122])
by host2.webreseller.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g6E1sY809874
for <joew@webreseller.net>; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:54:34 -0400
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:53:34 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [210.8.232.2]
From: "Alesita Delsto" <alesdel@hotmail.com>
To: "Joseff Wishnoff" <joew@webreseller.net>
Subject: Re: Your company has been added to the black list.
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:53:35 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 6.10.0016.1624
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C22B56.FE594400"
Message-ID: <OE180BrfQAHLsZWIOrS0000b7f9@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2002 06:53:34.0358 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C0A8B60:01C22B03]
Status:
In response to that email i responded
Im not sure who you are.

Unlimband is a site that lets customers know about the mal practices of
companies.

We are listed there as offering unmetered. All those companies on there
under the unlimted section should be banned from hosting. Its wrong and
illegal and physically not possible to do.

Im sorry but the only thing that is illegal here is your spam to these
companies.


Here is a email from him in response to my email
i think u r just too stupid to understand the fact that that website is
telling ur potential customers to get away from you. Many of those companies
whom I sent the message to have sent me emails to thank me for my time and
my information.

By law, he is not allowed to do that. His unlimhost.com is linked with
www.rnwebdesign.com, he does that probably for his own benefits.

I found out this website form a web forum.. I am a lawyer, I know what he is
doing is illegal and I think those victims should take legal actions to
against him.

I have actually made a few phone calls with some of the companies listed, I
told them it would be best for them to work together to sue this guy. This
guy will be liable of thousands of dollars as a penalty.

if u dont care about ur business, not my problem. I am just too kind to
spend my time to alarm the victims to use law to protect themselves.

It goes further but thats enough.

Haha JBizz, that's the icing on the cake. I thought that not naming the "big lawyers company" he's allegledly working for was fishy, but THIS email is a masterpiece. It sounds like it was written by an IRC kid.
And note the professionnal email address: alesdel@hotmail.com.
As a web host we have received some C&D now and them...never from anybody @hotmail.com! :stickout

I think, Jimb, you shouldn't be too worried about this guy. However, one thing is sure, but it's a general truth: if a big company sues you, you'd better be insanely wealthy or drop what you're doing and they don't like - right away.

The emails go further as I have gotten really pissed off.

I am also trying to get his email shut down at hotmail its the least I can do.

Overall the guys a prick and people like this suck.

Thanks,

Im emailing hotmail about this, hopefully we will be able to stop him from using his email address.

Jim

There's no way that email could have come from a big firm lawyer.

As for your other concerns:

Truth is the best defense to a civil action for defamation. The onus is on you, the defendant, to prove the truth of your statements. Falsity is presumed in favor of the plaintiff.

You "must" talk to "your own" lawyer in person if you want any valid legal advice. The actual outcome of a case depends on the
"entire" body of precedents/jurisprudence built, the judicial attitude in the governing jurisdiction, the material facts relevant to the issues at hand, the strength of your lawyer's research and arguments, AND sometimes a little bit of luck.

Originally posted by jimb
Currently, the site no longer says BlackList, but Unlim. List. Hopefully it will now be a list of just Unlimited Hosts...not saying that it is bad or anything ;)


Don't forget to change it here too:

http://www.rnwebdesign.com/unlimband/blacklist.html

Jessica

Originally posted by jimb
Hey,

UnlimBand just received this email (spammed but oh well)

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere else in this thread by now but:

1: The person who contacted you is not a lawyer - more likely someone on the list.

2: The individual who maintains the "blacklist" is well within his rights to do so as long as he has not published anything libelous.

If he is smart, he will be sure visitors to his page understand he is expressing an opinion rather than any statement of fact.

-Bob

Originally posted by hostpath.com


No, not true. You can sue just about anyone for just about anything at the drop of a hat. No C&D notifications are required as a prerequisite to a civil suit. C&D's, also known as "demand letters," are used as a method to correct infringing behavior without the need to actually file suit.

Here's a quote:
"While it is common practice for intellectual property attorneys to send cease and desist letters before filing infringement lawsuits, there generally is no legal obligation to send such a letter prior to filing suit."

http://www.duanemorris.com/publications/pub18.html

The key in your above statement is civil suit. What this joker is trying to do is a class action suit and that requires a cease and desist order. I have confirmed this with the attorney we use and no court in the US will hear this case (in a class action suit) unless an official cease and desist order was served and not responded to. This guy is not for real my guess it is one of the hosts on the list using scare tactics.

If you need any assistance with this let me know, I have 2 attorneys I have used in the past that would probably be more than willing to eat this yahoo (no pun intended) for breakfast and then slap him with a counter suit for wasting yours and their time.

This thread gets more and more rediculous. Lets start a thread on Rocket science and see how many rocket scientist are out there. People who offer legal advice that are not lawyers have no damn clue. Jim, do yourself a favor and continue with what you started and contact a REAL lawyer. Not a WHT "I have a friend of my great aunt sally's uncle who is a lawyer" type. You will save yourself trouble. For an initial consultation and sit down, it wouldn't run that much. At least they can get you to cover your bases so you can sleep at night.

Take care.



On a side note. Why is C-I_Host ***** out? There is a reason.

You're usually billed at a reduced rate for the first hour of consultation, so you really have little to lose.

At least two or three WHT members are lawyers but they're not regulars at this board, and "no" lawyers would ever give out specific legal advice without speaking with you in person.

So again, yes you "must" talk to "your own" lawyer on this particular matter.

the first line already shows the guy to be a fake..

"I am a solicitor from one of the biggest law firms in the world"

no self respecting lawyer will ever write this type of line.
i mean, "one of the biggest law firms in the world"? please...........
lawyers automatically write their law firm's name when they introduce themselves...

sigh...the guy could at least ask someone to proof read his spam email...geez :D

I have asked to have Cyberworldhost.com removed from this list several times with no reply. We do not offer unlimited bandwidth deals. We used to at one point, but do not anymore, and it is not fair that we are still categorized as being a host that offer unlimited bandwidth.

Whoever is in charge of the list please remove us from the list

Regards,

hmm I think their case would be thrown out of court... You need a disclaimer on that site no doubt though.

Sewing for something like this would be totally stupid. Most of these companies probably don't generate that much revenue to go ahead and sue some guy for saying their hosting is not good.

They risk loosing thousands and thousands in legal expenses and may well gain absolutely nothing and in fact loose!

The letter from the lawer is fake no doubt. These people are so funny, I can't believe it.

Fake.

No matter what I do to contact these people, they simply keep ignoring me.

We do not offer unlimited bandwidth deals. At least some sort of response of why we are still listed on there would be great, but I am afraid this is simply falling on deaf ears.

Regards,

Hi Alvin,

See: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76046 (jimb is the guy behind unlimband.com)

They're out of business

Hmmmm. That's all fine and great for him, but I emailed him before that, I started back in June or July not sure which month, and all my emails got 0 replies.

I would like to sing praises and so on, but much like how hosts out there are doing an injustice advertising unlimited bandwidth, he is doing an injustice by totally ignoring my request.

Regards,

What lawyer would say

I am a solicitor from one of the biggest law firms in the world.

???

Doesnt sound very professional from the start, though it should be if theyre the biggest solicitor in the world! :rolleyes: .

Yeah...The email looks like it was written by a 14 year old whos site is most likely listed,

If any of the companies listed do try to take legal action. then wouldnt it be possible for us to test their unlimited bandwidth offer.

A virtual sit it or something?...Just an idea!

No legitimate lawyer is going to contact you via e-mail to tell you they are going to take legal action. Even solicitors have legal policies they must follow. If this was legit, then someone would have shown up at your address (home or work) with a certified letter for you to sign before you received the message.

Regarding unlimband.com not responding to requests for removal, I'm not sure what could have occurred there. The site is back up, though, so it appears it is back in business again...