In todays age of resellers and third parties selling hosting services that they may be buying from another company who yet buys from yet another company, it is the end user that should protect themselves by ensuring that they have a full and complete backup of their data.

Rackshack resells dedicated servers, as do many others here, to smaller hosts who then resell virtual accounts to end users, sometimes at ridiculiously low prices.

Inevitably, some of these smaller hosts may not survive the turbulant times the industry is experiencing and may end of leaving their customers high and dry or without services for days on end due to business issues between the host and the reseller.

Others, the majority perhaps, take good care of business issues and also take good care of their customers. Their business, and participation in community forums such as WHT, are greatly appreciated.

In the end, I want to stress, it is vitally important for end users to maintain full, complete, and recent backups of their data.

You should not infer than any particular reseller of Rackshack's is in trouble. This is meant strictly as a talking point and to open a discussion about the business issues that our industry faces.

Good advice Robert. If you search this forum, you will find little solice towards indivduals that lost data from either the woefull misconduct of their host, or a hardware problem with the server they were on.

It remains that, if your data is important to you; back it up. And back it up your self.

Although I would rather have seen you begin this thread without the RackShack reference (not to worry; I would be stating this to anyone who mentioned their own company), I whoeheartedly agree that we, as individual site maintainers, are solely responsible for the backup of critical and important data.

Rackshack resells dedicated servers, as do many others here, to smaller hosts who then resell virtual accounts to end users, sometimes at ridiculiously low prices.

I might add the more ridiculous the price the more important that backup becomes.

Yes, backups are very important. We do daily backups, but still stress to our users how important it is for them to backup their own data. You never know when a disaster might occur.

Great post headsyrfer, backups are very important in the industry...

Rackshack resells dedicated servers? Don't you guys have your own datacentre? and you use cogent and other carriers?

:confused:

I don't know if renting them could be considered reselling.. but they do purchase them and basically re-sell the servers so, yes, they are resellers.. as is any other dedicated or virtual hosting provider. It just not often worded that way.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60919

Originally posted by headsurfer
Rackshack resells dedicated servers, as do many others here, to smaller hosts who then resell virtual accounts to end users, sometimes at ridiculiously low prices.Might as well ban myself from these forums, but I couldn't help myself. headsurfer, you are pointing out that hosts are pricing their services at ridiculiously low prices... haven't you checked your services and the prices they are advertised at on your own website? :eek: Who do you think is breeding these ridiculiously low priced hosts?

/me crawls back under rock and hopes next time I come here I won't be banned lol edude, funny post :D

on a side note, I do agree that webmasters should create proper backups for their data... ;)

lol Elena, if hes going to ban me i will personally run a campaign to put a end to WHT (me goes off and finds some hackers in Russia to hire ;) )

The funny thing about this thread is, look at all the first posters who praise Headsurfer for this post (iamdave), when if you do a search on wht you will find thousands of similar posts.

It is also very important to backup your data from rackshack servers as you never know when they will pull the pin for no reason.

Many people have had their boxes pulled from AUP violations which have claimed warnings etc, when there actually haven't been warnings, or the AUP violation is not actually an AUP violation at all.

If you are going to pull boxes, you should leave it up for at least long enough for the data to be collected and moved to another server.

Easiest way to close down a business is to complain to rackshack about one of their hosted sites, or claim they are sending spam, or similar and voila - box will be pulled without the chance of backing up the data.

Originally posted by edude
lol Elena, if hes going to ban me i will personally run a campaign to put a end to WHT (me goes off and finds some hackers in Russia to hire ;) )

The funny thing about this thread is, look at all the first posters who praise Headsurfer for this post (iamdave), when if you do a search on wht you will find thousands of similar posts. And what's wrong with praising him? You think I get like favors from him? I've never even spoken with him. I do have a server at RackShack, and I don't think they have the best customer support, but I do admire Robert Marsh as an idividual.

battyboy :P

I think this was meant to be more of a general 'be sure you back up your data' thread than a discussion about any particular provider.

As for RS breeding low prices...

I'm not so sure about that honestly. Tera-byte used to sell $99 servers (they still do I believe), as does webreseller and FDC and a few others (at least a few do, probably many more that I'm not aware of). The difference seems that people leasing these servers are selling yearly plans at close to what should be monthly amounts, and it would be hard for a buinsess to survive and grow with that type of income regardless of how much or little they pay for their servers.

Rackshack alone aren't the only ones doing it, that's for sure... but how HS phrased that last part of his sentence.. what a hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Hosting clients shouldn't be backing up their data only because Inevitably, some of these smaller hosts may not survive the turbulant times the industry is experiencing and may end of leaving their customers high and dry or without services for days on end due to business issues between the host and the reseller. That is not the only cause for loss of data and to not state the most obvious reason is misleading. How HS phrased his post, he makes it sound like the only clients who should worry about data loss are the ones who host their sites with smaller hosts... which is BS.

The most obvious reason is that all website data is stored on a machine... machines are not perfect.. machines fail. If anyone is going to rely on a machine to run perfectly forever.. then they have another thing coming. :cartman:

Had he only said "I want to stress, it is vitally important for end users to maintain full, complete, and recent backups of their data.", it would have been enough instead of trying to single out a group he is obviously not in and try to make them look like they are set out for imminent failure in this oh so "turbulant" industry that he probably feels he had no hand (be it small and definetely not completely alone in doing) in creating. :rolleyes:

:pimp: I think headsurfer deserves a spanking for all the commotion he's created with this thread.

:cartman: If not a spanking, then at least, a time out in the corner should be in order.

Why is headsurfer allowed to make this a sticky thread so everyone reads his spew about rackshack?

esdjco: read here: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60919

Headsurfer owns the forum, he can do what he likes :)

I don't think he used RS to try and promote them, he used them as an example, and a relevant one at that.

Matt

Thanks Edude and yes I know he owns the forum but I thought when the forum was sold it was supposed to remain free of Rackshack influence. Clearly its not.

If you want to participate in teh community, that's great. If not, that's fine too.

Only people who want to be here should be here.

I learned long ago about the golden rule or rather rules. In this instance, it is, "he who has the gold makes the rules."

I have chosen not to censor negative RS threads and negative Rs comments. I do, however, reserve the right to use this board to post my own thoughts, ideas, concerns, etc. in the manner that I feel like doing.

It may not be the most popular choice. But in teh end, it is my choice to make.

I posted that thread not to bash small hosting companies, as it is these companies that pay the bills at Rackshack. More, I posted my note to encourage folks to make backups even in instances where the host has promised to make backups for them.

That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Originally posted by headsurfer
More, I posted my note to encourage folks to make backups even in instances where the host has promised to make backups for them.

That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Then you should have at least mentioned that in your first post, which you didn't.

I'm glad you cleared that up.. I really don't care who owns this place or what has been made "sticky", however when someone who has a big enough voice in these forums states something that I feel is untrue or misleading.. then I post. I don't post much.. but when I do it's usually because what has been said annoys me. :o

Thanks again HS for your clarification. ;)

Originally posted by Elena
Then you should have at least mentioned that in your first post, which you didn't.

I'm glad you cleared that up.. I really don't care who owns this place or what has been made "sticky", however when someone who has a big enough voice in these forums states something that I feel is untrue or misleading.. then I post. I don't post much.. but when I do it's usually because what has been said annoys me. :o

Thanks again HS for your clarification. ;) I guess he should just tell his life story while he's at it... Headsurfer please post in edude's thread.

My thread is locked - it would not be fair if its re-opened..

Headsurfer, i understand your side of this story..

Thanks for the explanation

- no hard feelings..

Originally posted by edude
My thread is locked - it would not be fair if its re-opened..

Headsurfer, i understand your side of this story..

Thanks for the explanation

- no hard feelings.. Why did it get locked?

OOPS! DELETE THIS

Because i requested it to be locked to end the useless flaming from both sides..

Originally posted by edude
Because i requested it to be locked to end the useless flaming from both sides.. I see.

Originally posted by edude
. . . . . . . Thanks for the explanation. . . . . .You mean the following explanation?Originally posted by headsurfer
. . . . . . . . "he who has the gold makes the rules.". . . . . . . . :rolleyes:

I've learned lots along the way too. And, I believe, the most important is, "You lead by example."

If your example is to say, "I have more money than you so . . . neener neener neeeeener" I am about to join the ranks of those that said, "Nothing good can come of this," when RackShack purchased the forum.

:agree: SoftwareRevue :agree:

Sorry for the off topic spat; now on with the show. :D

Well, maybe this thread should be cleaned of the debris. As this is such an important subject. It should be a sticky that says, "All newbies read this!"

There are so many things that can go wrong; no matter how careful we are. Mistakes happen. Hardware fails. It's just the facts of life.

If your data is important to you; back it up. And back it up often.

Sorry, i couldn't let SWR have the last post so i will..

:D

So Headsurfer,

Do you as principal of Rackshack feel that you have a duty of corporate responsibility to intervene if a reseller of yours can't make a go of it and/or goes on the lam. If this information was known to you would you:
1. Sit back, wait for it to happen and do nothing.
2. Sit back, wait for it to happen, move that resellers clients to other resellers that have their head above water.
3. Talk to that reseller, and cut them a short-term break until clients are transitioned (take over the server and sell rights to the server and they clients).
4. Talk to that reseller, and just give them some time 3-months to straighten things out.

As far a backups go...image your site on your computer hard drive. Produce pages locally then up load to the site. Don't publish directly with saving on local hard drive or burning a CD.

Case in point: http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2002/05/27/story2.html
In the spring of 2000, three customers of C* Host sued over a server crash in late 1999 that temporarily brought down many of the Web sites that the company hosted. Among other things, the plaintiffs claimed that C* Host broke promises about how often sites it hosted would be operational and how often data would be backed up, among other things.
The case is now before the state Supreme Court concerning a dispute about whether C* Host must turn over back-up tapes that would give a snapshot of how its system was performing during certain time frames. The justices will decide whether C* Host must provide the tapes to the plaintiffs and, if so, how many they must turn over.

Rackshack cancels any server which has overdue payments or may have breached their AUP.

Rackshack are cowboys in the dedicated server game, and will go out with alot of money in their hip pocket.

As an "end-user" I can't help but be irritated by the advice below.

Sure, it makes sense on some level to protect yourself. But give me a break! I buy fire insurance for my house but if my house burns down, I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank to rebuild because I expect my insurer to go belly-up! I don't maintain two cell phones in case one goes on the blink. I don't have two checking accounts with equal amounts of money, just in case... I don't pay my bills twice because I expect that one of the payments will not make it.

I am not arguing the wisdom of keeping backups of important records, but I am strongly AGAINST you all letting the lowest common denominator rule your industry.

If I enter into a business transaction with a webhost, I expect to get what I pay for. I think ANYBODY should have that expectation.

If that host says data will be backed up daily, weekly or monthly, I expect that it will be. I will be responsible for my part (prompt and full payment), you should be responsible for yours. In most cases we have a legally binding contract that sets out these responsibilities.

If your ability to do backups is questionable, DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT ANYWHERE IN YOUR SOLICITATIONS OR SIGNUP PROCESS. Say "we don't back up anything, if the power goes out you're site is screwed." Just pleasantly surprise us, after your facility is wiped out by a hurricane, by restoring full backups (that had been stored offsite) to an alternate server across the country that you have previously contracted with (on a reciprocal emergency basis). You will retain each and every customer, and word of mouth will bring more customers.

For those of you that fit into the "resellers and third parties selling hosting services that they may be buying from another company who yet buys from yet another company" group, set some standards for resellers! Make them show insurance or carry a bond so that they won't be able to leave their customers high and dry. You DO have control over that!

I challenge each and every one of you in the hosting business to fulfill your responsibilities, and encourage your colleagues/competitors to do the same. This is YOUR industry. Do not let the lowest common denominator in webhosting services set the expectations for everyone else in the business. The health and longevity of your industry depends on you setting the bar high, not low!


Originally posted by headsurfer
In todays age of resellers and third parties selling hosting services that they may be buying from another company who yet buys from yet another company, it is the end user that should protect themselves by ensuring that they have a full and complete backup of their data...

...In the end, I want to stress, it is vitally important for end users to maintain full, complete, and recent backups of their data.

god some of you lot really are touchy. get a grip. in light of cw going fritz robert makes a post gently reminding people about the importance of backing up on the forum HE OWNS AND PAID FOR, it wasnt an add for rackshack, it wasnt slating anyone, merely some timely sage words.
now am i a suckup lets see, do a search on my name back to when rackshack had their new years outage and see what i said then. satisfied ? k right good. any more yapping and bubba pays a visit.
whilst it is a vaild point that if your host sells you a service witha backup as a feature then it is their responsibility to maintain that data. if they dont, and an act beyond their control and not due to negligence, occurs what then? **** happens. the world is not perfect. if you didnt buy backup then you should perform it yourself. if you buy a washing machine without an extended warranty then its your job to keep some spanners under the sink or a plumbers number next to the phone. we can bandy about crap like that all day and nite but the bottom line is what exists here and now. you can buy with or without backup. with costs more. you are paying your money to someone else to perform an extra service you could perform yourself. if all hosts did it and charged for it then someone would be whining that they want cheaper hosting without backup. this way there is a choice. choice is good. try looking at it from another perspective for a moment.

Originally posted by richy
. . . . . . . you can buy with or without backup. with costs more. you are paying your money to someone else to perform an extra service you could perform yourself. . . . . . . . Whether you purchase hosting from someone that performs backups or not; it still is in your best interest to back up your site yourself.
Mistakes happen. Hardware fails. You can't assume you're safe, just because your host performs any kind of backup service.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Whether you purchase hosting from someone that performs backups or not; it still is in your best interest to back up your site yourself.
Mistakes happen. Hardware fails. You can't assume you're safe, just because your host performs any kind of backup service. Yup, if for some reason the host, says sorry we don't have your backup, all of your valuable files are GONE!

Suckup :stickout:

Originally posted by richy
god some of you lot really are touchy. get a grip. in light of cw going fritz robert makes a post gently reminding people about the importance of backing up on the forum HE OWNS AND PAID FOR, it wasnt an add for rackshack, it wasnt slating anyone, merely some timely sage words.
now am i a suckup lets see, do a search on my name back to when rackshack had their new years outage and see what i said then. satisfied ? k right good. any more yapping and bubba pays a visit.
whilst it is a vaild point that if your host sells you a service witha backup as a feature then it is their responsibility to maintain that data. if they dont, and an act beyond their control and not due to negligence, occurs what then? **** happens. the world is not perfect. if you didnt buy backup then you should perform it yourself. if you buy a washing machine without an extended warranty then its your job to keep some spanners under the sink or a plumbers number next to the phone. we can bandy about crap like that all day and nite but the bottom line is what exists here and now. you can buy with or without backup. with costs more. you are paying your money to someone else to perform an extra service you could perform yourself. if all hosts did it and charged for it then someone would be whining that they want cheaper hosting without backup. this way there is a choice. choice is good. try looking at it from another perspective for a moment.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue

There are so many things that can go wrong; no matter how careful we are. Mistakes happen. Hardware fails. It's just the facts of life.

If your data is important to you; back it up. And back it up often.

Isn't this just like common sense. Nonbody had to tell me to keep backups of everything that was important to me, I learned working on a PC running Win95, and the darn thing crashed constantly. It was a lesson I never forgot. :cool:

yeah but come on, you know someone would try and sue RS if their server died cos RS did paint in great neon signs that rm -rf isnt healthy for them :) yes it is always sensible to maintain your own backups. i was merely stating that backup of data is a premium service these days to reduce costs. backuping up costs the host money be it in transfer or in a tape drive etc. this cost is passed on, not everyone wants to pay an extra buck or two a month when theyre only paying a few bucks anyway. horses for courses. some people just cant see beyond their own small view of the world and realise how and why things are the way they are.

edube bubba's on the way. you were warned ;)