Arg!

We are moving an office to a different city, and our telco just told us that we can't keep our business numbers because the office is in a different city and is serviced by a different telco company.

I realize that the telco industry is changing (or whatever word it is for "number portability") and we're supposed to be able to transfer phone numbers to any provider....

.. but obviously this is not yet a reality for all areas.

So why aren't phone numbers just like domain names?

With a domain name, you pay a yearly fee and you can "point" it to any hosting service provider. Don't like your provider, or want to move elsewhere? Just login to your domain control panel, change the nameservers, and presto.. it's pointing somewhere else.

But with a telephone number, it's completely screwy. First of all, you have to "prove" that you "own" the number. Then you have to "apply" to have it transferred. Then the new provider has to connect it into their system and make sure it will work, etc... And each step has a big fee!

We have had no end of problems for all of these steps, especially the first one, where we are simply trying to convince our current provider that we want to keep "our" number even though we will not be using them any more.

Good grief. :mad:

I would love to simply log into a "phone number control panel", change the nameservers for our phone number, and poof.. it points to the new provider. Just like a domain name.

So.. why can't this be done? What's stopping it from happening?

If you want to keep the same number, try porting it over to a VOIP provider. Many VOIP providers will do this for free. Then you just set up your VOIP equiptment at your new location and use the number there.

So.. why can't this be done? What's stopping it from happening?

Three guesses...start here:
And each step has a big fee!
:D

If you want to keep the same number, try porting it over to a VOIP provider. Many VOIP providers will do this for free. Then you just set up your VOIP equiptment at your new location and use the number there.
Actually, that's exactly what I did with my personal phone number about a year ago...

... and then a few months ago I tried to change VoIP providers, and they told me that they will not release my number! So I ended up having to get a new phone number if I wanted to move away from them.

Arg.

Actually, that's exactly what I did with my personal phone number about a year ago...

... and then a few months ago I tried to change VoIP providers, and they told me that they will not release my number! So I ended up having to get a new phone number if I wanted to move away from them.

Arg.

I think it is the law that they have to move the number...I am not sure. Sounds like you just had a lame voip provider.

I think it is the law that they have to move the number...I am not sure. Sounds like you just had a lame voip provider.
I don't know.. they were pretty clear, and the issue was even escalated up to their "legal" department for an official decision.

They decided that I was allowed to transfer my old phone number IN to their system, but they did not have to allow the release of "my" number OUT from their system.

Apparently this number portability thing is still voluntary.

our telco just told us that we can't keep our business numbers because the office is in a different city and is serviced by a different telco company.

Solution #1 Voip:
Vonage would EASILY be able to transfer this, as long as they handle connections in your area. Not an issue at all

Solution #2: Any qualified toll free provider (kall8, ringcentral, gotvmail) will easily be able to transfer the local number to them.

Telcos are out the door, mainly because they rely too much on physical presence. I've moved a few times over the years and only had to change my # once (even then I didn't HAVE to, but I did anyways), and I maintain 3 separate numbers (personal, cell, toll free).

Sounds like it's time to move out of the telco solution and into a more realistic, global one.

Isn't Vonage barred to take on new clients because of their patent dispute?

Some phone companies here offer call forwarding to prior numbers. I'm not sure of the cost or the length you can do this for or even if its available everywhere but its worth a try.

The easiest way to explain it is numbers are set by geographic area. Maybe its just easier for the majority, and the minority have to suffer with number changes.

First of all it's law that they have to allow you to port it:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/numbport.html

You can file a complaint by e-mail (fccinfo@fcc.gov); the Internet (www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html); telephone 1-888-CALL-FCC (1-888-225-5322) voice, 1-888-TELL-FCC (1-888-835-5322) TTY; fax 1-866-418-0232;

Kick their asses.

Edit: Woops
However, if you are moving from one geographic area to another, you may not be able to take your number with you. In addition to switching from one wireless company to another, in most cases, you will be able to switch from a wireless company to a wireless company, or from a wireless company to a wireline company, and still keep your phone number.

You should still have been able to move that VoIP one though without a question.

First of all it's law that they have to allow you to port it:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/numbport.html


Well, according to the first paragraph in that document:

Under the Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC’s) “local number portability” (LNP) rules, you can switch telephone service providers within the same geographic area and keep your existing phone number. However, if you are moving from one geographic area to another, you may not be able to take your number with you.

So that's not good.

Is this a technical limitation of how the POTS (plain old telephone service) system works? Is there some technical reason why a phone number for "new york" can not be moved to a "washington" residence?

First of all it's law that they have to allow you to port it:

No, it's actually not the law, and the law is NOT that simple.

The "portability law" refers to transferring wired phones to wireless, or wireless to wireless, or wireless to wired. NOTHING is stated (or required for that matter) about Wired to Wired, wired to VOIP , VOIP to wired, or anything else. And no, it's NOT the law that they have to "allow you to port it". For example (from the above link you posted):


most small wireline companies currently are not required to port numbers to wireless companies




However, if you are moving from one geographic area to another, you may not be able to take your number with you.

IE:
If you move across town, you may not be able to take your number with you, due to area codes, geographic locations, and the like. Remember, just because you're in the same "area code" as you were before doesn't mean you're in the same geographical location.


Is there some technical reason why a phone number for "new york" can not be moved to a "washington" residence?

Yes
When using the "bell system" (POTS), your call is routed through a series of switches, exchanges, and the like. In many (note: many, not all)areas, the breakdown is as such

Area code - City/town - Number

For example, a few years back I lived about 10-15 miles from here. Not that much of a hop, same area code, but the city / town changed. For this town, traditionally, the phone numbers were

319-275-xxxx
319-276-xxxx
319-277-xxxx

with the 27x being the exchange, and the xxxx (of course) being the user's actual number.

The same rule does NOT apply, however, to Cell phones, or VOIP, because they are handled on a completely different method. VOIP is addressed globally by networks which are far more advanced than POTS ever could be. Cell phones are getting there ;).

Isn't Vonage barred to take on new clients because of their patent dispute?
Hardly (http://news.com.com/Vonage+can+keep+signing+up+new+customers/2100-1036_3-6178783.html)
Cases like this can take years to resolve, and the courts are understanding of this. They're nto going to say "no more doing business", especially with the recent appeals judgements made that will likely turn it back to Vonage.

recent decision i read that a judge has allowed vonage to continue signing up new customers, while decision is pending on other matter.

Phone numbers arent as simple as domain names for many different reasons. First one: security :)

Why aren't phone numbers like domain names?

Excellent question :) Phone numbers are extremely user-unfriendly. Why should you have to remember numbers to contact a person? Not only that, but depending on how you want to contact someone, whether by phone, IM, email, etc. you have to remember several addresses/numbers. Communication silos make it more difficult and time-consuming to contact people. Why can’t you have one identity regardless of the communication type?

In general, the industry is moving in this direction with Unified Communications, though it will probably take time. Several vendors like Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/uc/default.mspx), Cisco, IBM, Nortel, Avaya, etc. are starting to deliver on this. Definitely check out what is available out there by searching for Unified Communications. There was a recent article in the WSJ that provides good insight on this.

This is definitely the future. But It will take some time before that.

It would be excellent if you like set your phone number to your address and it just automatically sent phone calls to the phone socket in there.

I would reccomend Skype. You buy a number and it rings wherever your logged in to Skype on the computer. You can buy a number for like £30 yearly. and to ring out you have to buy credit.

Yeah skype is really good. But its very tiring having to login.

This is actually really good information though. Thanks AJR.

If you are using Verizon, you should move to Vonage if you do a switch to VoIP, I am sure they will love you LOL.

Where you are moving, does it have the same zip code?

I am a Vonage customer and have been for several years. The decision was that Vonage could not be barred from accepting new custmers, or even from upgrading their systems. My daughter also has Vonage, when she moved to another state, she still wanted to keep her old business number and area code. You can do that with Vonage and one or two other companies. There are a few cheeper companies out there but be very careful. With some of them you are routed all over the world before it gets to you.

Phone numbers aren't like domains, they rely on specific blocks of numbers being routed to specific areas/hand-off points etc. for them to work - Much how the Internet works, once you've done the DNS part. If people started wanting a single IP address used in a different "area" to where it originated then it'd cause meltdown once it caught on.

I don't know US, but in most countries phone numbers have meanings. You can tell which prefecture and which city that number from.

If your going with VOIP take note that most of them will cut you off if theres too much usage. A friend I know was told he had 30 days to move his numbers elsewhere or they would cut him off completely because he was "abusing" it.

Isn't Vonage barred to take on new clients because of their patent dispute?

Some phone companies here offer call forwarding to prior numbers. I'm not sure of the cost or the length you can do this for or even if its available everywhere but its worth a try.

The easiest way to explain it is numbers are set by geographic area. Maybe its just easier for the majority, and the minority have to suffer with number changes.
As for the answer of isn't Vonage blocked from signing up new customers, the answer is 'Yes'. According to the injunction against them, they are required to desist. (One of the requirements according to the losing the lawsuit.) That being said, Vonage requested a temporary stay on the injunction, in order to continue bringing in money, until they get a date for an appeal trial. They were granted a temporary stay by the judge, and have since applied to a long term stay, (As I believe the original stay was only allowed to last something like 2 months) and they have since been granted that stay as well. Thus, though they 'lost' the first suit, they are appealing the process, and the judge believes that they have enough of a case to get an appeal that they are allowed to do business as usual until the next court date.

Consequently, the first battle focused on 'did vonage violate the patents', but not on 'are the patents vaild'. THe answer there is; yes, vonage did infringe (Even if it was unknowingly) on the existing patents. When they go back to court for the appeal, they will be focusing very heavily upon whether the patents were far to close to either 'prior art' or 'natural expected progression of pre-existing technologies'. Since the patents Vonage infringed on are VERY similar to DNS and IP routing, then it is likely (but not certain.) that they have a good case against the patents being invalid.

It was said not too long ago that if they continue to go after Vonage then Packet 8, Bright house and a few more should be added to the suite. They too are using similar technology. By going after them would not that infringe on diveristy or freedom of choice. It may be considered that Verizon is trying to monopolize and we all know what happens to companies that do that. (Verizon did try to stop Bright house from instlling wireless systems, but that did not pan out)

It was said not too long ago that if they continue to go after Vonage then Packet 8, Bright house and a few more should be added to the suite. They too are using similar technology. By going after them would not that infringe on diveristy or freedom of choice. It may be considered that Verizon is trying to monopolize and we all know what happens to companies that do that. (Verizon did try to stop Bright house from instlling wireless systems, but that did not pan out)
Actually, that is probably what will happen. Verizon is supposedly scared of the VoIP services, and they are just doing what they can to corner the market. Keep in mind this is one of the same companies that believes a unhappy customer locked into a contract is better than a loyal, happy customer who stays because they prefer the service. They like being a monopoly, and since the law was changed to allow CLECs, and their federalized regulations were lifted, they've enjoyed the ability to ACT like a monopoly, and suddenly, they have competition in their market, and people actually have a (Even if it's not great) alternative.