Hello,

We have a dilema and I'm hoping for some advice. I got an email claiming that one of my clients is using stolen images on his site. I contacted my client who of course denied the accusation. The client agreed to remove the images in question to avoid a hassle for us. The person making the claim is demanding that I delete the client from my servers though. I replied and asked this person to supply proof that the images had been stolen, but he took that as me accusing him of lying.

I guess my question is this... what should I do here? Am I wrong to back my client? Am I wrong to request that the person making this claim supply me with proof they own the images? I cannot delete a client just because I get an email from someone claiming they are using stole images unless they back it up with paperwork can I? Or should the client be forced to show paperwork without the other individual having to do so? Please help.. I'm really getting tired of this entire situation :)

I don't believe you should be forced to remove the client.

There is no supporting documentation of the copy and as you mentioned, your client denied the accusation but to save hassle proceeded to remove the images in question.

If you removed this client without proof of copying the images, more trouble could be caused including the potential for legal action against yourself?

In my opinion it would probably be best to let your client work it out with the other party and stay out of the argument (but that's just me). Either way - I wouldn't delete the client.

--Shaun.

I think the person who created the images should have provided proof when they emailed you to tell you of the theft. If that was an oversite, they should be willing to supply the proof upon your request.
Secondly, if the person acused of it agreed to remove the images, then well . . . (I'm thinking I wouldn't remove images I created)
Thirdly, the images are removed so that should be the end of it.
Without proof, I don't think you should close the account.
I'd hate to think anybody can send an email to the provider of my server and have the plug pulled without any proof of their acusations.

If the image in question has been removed by your client, then the entire problem is moot: The infringing material is gone. If the personal *claiming* to have been wronged is still complaining, even after having been told the material is removed, then most likely they're just trying to raise a ruckus for your client by having them tossed.

If the material was still there, and the person could prove ownership, and your client was refusing to remove the image, then you would have a problem, and a decision to make.

But since the image has been removed, there's no longer a problem, tell the person to take a walk. ;)

Thanks for your advice folks... I have just one more question though...

The content in question is adult oriented and is within a membership based site. Is your advice still the same?

Thanks

Providing it's legal adult content and allowed by your TOS then I don't see any difference.

Then again, if the complainant could prove loss of revenue against your client - then a whole new problem could emerge.

--Shaun.

image ownership is the same whether it's behind a membership login or not. If they're owned by someone else, and the owner doesn't want them displayed them the issue is the same.

However as others have said, the imagery has been removed, or it's a moot point. You should back your customers, and give them the benefit of the doubt. If this third party has proof otherwise then advise the client to remove the material.

Until there's proof either way believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see :)

Greg Moore

Thanks... I have just found a great reference, but it is hard for me to understand. If I am understanding this section of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act correctly... it is saying ISPs are not as liable as I thought they were.

http://www.cyberspacelaw.org/dogan/dmcaisp.html

Originally posted by 0wned
Thanks for your advice folks... I have just one more question though...

The content in question is adult oriented and is within a membership based site. Is your advice still the same?

Thanks

Hmmm...anything to do with Shaw Internet or Apic-Worldwide by any chance...?

Gary

No.. this seems to be a private individual who says they never sold rights to their images. They say the images were used on their own sites only.

No problems. We have come up against Shaw Internet and Apic-Worldwide a few times, and will always investigate/resolve the issues they raise with regards to copyright infringements on their adult content. But I took execption to their latest tactic of advising our clients that their hosting account has been closed, when that is not a decision they will ever get to make.

Good luck with your own dilemma. :)

Gary

Thanks for all the input. What a great forum this is. I believe the situation has been eased. The problem was that the individual claiming ownership wanted a login/pass to make sure the content had been removed by my client. My client has just given said access so I am hoping the situation has been closed.

I'd keep a very close eye on that account for the next day if I were you. If that login/pass suddenly gets posted to a newsgroup you may expect a big jump in traffic

Greg Moore

no proof! i would take your clients side

Beware of siding with anyone on this issue, ISP's and web hosts are currently viewed as common carriers, not responsible for monitoring the content of customer websites.

However, the minute you do involve yourself, you open up a whole new can of worms, and expose yourself to liabilities from both directions. You not only become liable for the contents of your server place there by your customers, but you also open yourself up to a lawsuit from the customer if you take down something that legally does belong to them.

Sure, it's a nice guy thing to do, taking down something that has been complained about, just remember if you do it, both sides can then involve you in a lawsuit, and by taking down the content under dispute, you've made yourself liable for it. And enough of those lawsuits and we get precedent, and all the rest of us can be held liable as well.

The only way you should involve yourself if is you receive legal notification that a violation of the DMCA has taken place, not an angry email from someone who says that pictures belong to them or that their site design has been ripped.

WOW! Are you saying that the complainer wanted you (the host) to give him the clients name and password? (even more suspicuous than complaining and providing no proof)
I would never give out my own name and password or that of my clients. I would also advise my clients not to.
Imeditately change it!

change the password
limit the traffic with whatever governor your control panel has

and tell the group that demands you remove the site to kiss your a**, but do it nice..

lastly be prepared for hacker intrusion etc

watch any new signups requesting ssh


this is a headache you dont need and is a problem that is common in the adult content realm

i might rethink hosting for this group.....

Originally posted by Phoenix
Beware of siding with anyone on this issue, ISP's and web hosts are currently viewed as common carriers, not responsible for monitoring the content of customer websites.


This is exactly what I read on it also..
Its not on wbhost to monitor/police content their clinets put up.

We only get involved when it is against TOS.
Otherwise there are other avenues for the complaintant to go thru.

Hi All, I am a photographer. If the images are either digital or negative based photographs, proof by the owner is easily supplied and he should not bulk at the idea of providing proof. If they are jpeg and gif images psp created for use on a website there is no real way of determing ownership unless the designer has digitally identified his images and can supply this information to you with endorsed proof of ownership.
The choice of action is yours. I would require proof!

HAL