http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17982142/

wow, this is not good!

Not good, I left their service after call quality went down the tube and their tech service turned to crap when they started their ad campaign. I use galaxyvoice and it's cheaper.

The problem is not the way Vonage linked to Verizon's phone network (and who knows which phone company they cut into to get their calls out there?) , it is the way VOIP links to ANY phone network.
As I see it, the only way VOIP providers can avoid any infringement on these patents is to stick to PC to PC calls, thereby losing the main attraction of VOIP.
Vonage was simply the first domino in the line.
Now that Verizon has knocked over that domino, any other VOIP provider who links to any phone system is susceptible to a lawsuit...

phone lines?

how do you figure?

phone lines?

how do you figure?

Virtual phone lines.

'splain

it is the way VOIP links to ANY phone network.

doesn't look dead yet.

i'm sure they'll get bought out by someone big

They are appealing, so that allows them to still accept new sign-ups. Hopefully all works out for them, new and better technology shouldn't be thrown out like this.

Thread moved to Emerging Technologies and Markets. :)

Pfft, Vonage won't ever go out of business.

Pfft, Vonage won't ever go out of business.

I agree but I do think that other options such as Skype, and private labeled resellers and such are taking a bite out of their new customer gathering.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

somerset I had the same issue on call quality with them and the fact they don't have annonymous call rejection...

Pfft, Vonage won't ever go out of business.

neither will worldcom or enron or any other large company

they are restricted from signing up new business.

i actually sell voip, although not from vonage so i definitely have an interest in what happens here

Ouch. I use sunrocket.

vonage got a temporary stay and they had to post a 66 million dollar bond with the courts

excellent time to buy vonage stock which is trading around 3 dollars down from a high of over 17 dollars (USD)

Honestly,

Even if they can take new customers, I am sure the new customer levels are way off due to all this, I know a few people who were considering them that have decided to use another service in stead.

I can understand asking them to compensate for the misuse, but for the Court to have the power to stop sales is something that needs to be looked at in my opinion.

vonage got a temporary stay and they had to post a 66 million dollar bond with the courts

excellent time to buy vonage stock which is trading around 3 dollars down from a high of over 17 dollars (USD)
i already shorted it once when it first was listed. i'm not playing that game again though -- way too risky IMO.

I do however have about 300 shares of Ford. Start buying Fords!

Ford is losing money on a daily basis, I wouldn't trust them if my life depended on it.

I am with Vonage myself, been with them for a while now, I personally don't want to go through all the hassle of getting a new provider so I hope they win out of this situation. I think Verizon is just a mean big bally 'ol bully!

Honestly,
I can understand asking them to compensate for the misuse, but for the Court to have the power to stop sales is something that needs to be looked at in my opinion.

stealing and profiting from another companys patent is not "misuse" it is highly unethical and against the law. go to a grocery store and "misuse" a candy bar right into your pocket and see what you get.

if the only thing people had to do is compensate others for breaking the law and stealing their things, imagine how many people would be getting by with things.

i am not a fan of verizon and im not a fan of vonage but to claim that verizon is a bully is silliness.

I'm uncertain if this is the exact patent in question, but the EFF is working on a VOIP related case by the sounds of it:

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/04/06/help_eff_bust_a_bogu.html

The EFF is pretty good once they set their mind on a particular goal, so theres good hands working there to say the least (eg. their latest victory over Michael Crook [Google if need be]).

Pfft, Vonage won't ever go out of business.
I don't know about that - Vonage's stock has gone down the tubes since its IPO and the company has yet to show any profit. Maybe they'll get bought out down the line but I would say the outlook isn't rosy.

With the telcos and cable companies going after VoIP, these patent disputes, triple play packages, and the fact they control major portions of the interweb tubes (the net neutrality issues) these independent VoIP providers really have a hard uphill battle.

Personally, I use SunRocket and have been pretty satisfied with it. I don't know the specific details to comment on whether there is patent infringement, but I hope Vonage wins out or else like someone else has said, it paves the way for Verizon to go after everyone else.

i already shorted it once when it first was listed. i'm not playing that game again though -- way too risky IMO.

I do however have about 300 shares of Ford. Start buying Fords!

Isn't Ford one of the companies that was begging the president to do something against competition from Japanese car makers?

Every time there is a change in the market or a new law in effect, Ford spends money lobbying when Honda spends money building a new engine ;)

Actually Ford does need Labor laws changed. They unions are killing the American car companies. That is one reason Toyotas labor costs are so much cheaper at their US factories, yet the employees take home roughly the same amount of money.

Unions are indeed another measure that have gone beyond their original aim and now being detrimental to business.

Actually associations and the like should not be allowed for field. When an association forms up, they immediately start to protect and further their own groups' interests even if they are in the expense of other groups or public in general. Little different than a medieval trading guild.

In a free market everything must be free, regulation should just come from laws to prevent exploitation, monopoly, abuse of environment and the like. For this to happen, "lobbying" concept should be thrown out of the window, and a way must be found to prevent big buck from buying senators behind the scenes.

Actually associations and the like should not be allowed for field.

In a free market everything must be free...

Have you had a fair share of irony today? :)

As for the Vonage issue, this makes it even more clear why patent laws need serious changes, although ending patents altogether would certainly be more effective.

A sad but clear indication of what happens when corporate protection outweighs the need for supply and demand economics to do their thing.

nothing wrong with patents, whats wrong is when someone infringes on someone elses and then thinks they dont have to pay for them!

imagine building something innovative, then someone else comes along and takes it and you get nothing for it.

how does that make any sense?

stealing and profiting from another companys patent is not "misuse" it is highly unethical and against the law.

watch out: did you use a browser to post this comment? did you submit a form? did you click a link to get here?

you probably violated a dozen patents in order to post your comment.

don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house. ;)

nothing wrong with patents, whats wrong is when someone infringes on someone elses and then thinks they dont have to pay for them!

imagine building something innovative, then someone else comes along and takes it and you get nothing for it.

how does that make any sense?

Patents are the greatest burden on free markets. They effectively act as a socialization of industry. How does a government-sanctioned monopoly make sense?

The worst part of it all, is in the US companies are allowed to patent ideas, even ideas that we don't have the technology to implement.

Now Verizon has effectively patented VOIP-to-Phone technology, which means that all VOIPs are going to be forced to pay Verizon for using a technology they didn't even invent. They just came up with a very vague idea. As a result, the service becomes more expensive for the consumer, less enticing for small businesses and thus, a weak alternative to regular phone service.

Patents are the worst thing for a free market, which is why I find it so strange that it's self-proclaimed "free market" believers who are their biggest supporters.

The whole vonage situation is David vs Goliath. This time David forgot the heavy artillery at home. That being said the patnent laws need to change. I find it stupid that you can patent and idea that you don't intend to make a product or service out of then use it when someone else comes up with a similar way to the same thing. If vonage infringed on the interconnection then ok they should go to L3 and say we want to be you biggest private label voip (Reseller) customer. Something like that will piss off verizon cause there is no action they can take against L3 without it biting them in the arse. We need so many reforms from patent reform to the dam lobbying it all needs to go all that mess is from Pre information age business and none of it helps business or the consumer.

Has anyone else noticed their stock is sinking faster than a heavy rock in water?

If vonage does not get the court to give them a permanent stay, it's over for vonage.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2007-04-15-vonage-usat_N.htm?csp=34

Now there is even talk about them going bankrupt

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2007-04-18-vonage-warns-of-bankrupcy_N.htm?csp=34

Someone saying Vonage won't ever going out of business.....

Obviously you haven't been around for long.......
The RBOCs through Congress lobying and a new FCC Director literally threw out the competitive advange CLECs had through line sharing. By the time CLECs gained some ground back, it was already too late, and many had been bought out or filed for bankrupcy.

Also, for you who don't know..... More than 90% of the earnings Vonage generates is plowed back into publicity and distribution. AT&T and Verizon will be reaping the benefits of VoIP subscription in no time.

Vonage might even gain the battle, but Verizon wil win the war. By the time they can recompose themselves, they've already bled too much cash.

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

Actually Ford does need Labor laws changed. They unions are killing the American car companies. That is one reason Toyotas labor costs are so much cheaper at their US factories, yet the employees take home roughly the same amount of money.

Anytime a union gets too powerfull for the citizens own good is never a good thing. Probably a reason why it's so expensive to do anything in America these days(take a look at medication costs), but I degress...

I had Vonage for about 2 years. I used them occasionally for Interview recordings, but I stopped doing allot of those. Their PC Recording worked much better than using Skype for that purpose, because Skype always had an echo no matter what I did.... everyone heard each other in an echo that made it impossible to talk.


Needless to say I canceled it a few months ago, especially after hearing of these customer service issues and patent issues. Anyone know of something as flexible in Skype for Buying Minutes, and one that does not receive an echo on all ends when recording?

Someone saying Vonage won't ever going out of business.....

Obviously you haven't been around for long.......
The RBOCs through Congress lobying and a new FCC Director literally threw out the competitive advange CLECs had through line sharing. By the time CLECs gained some ground back, it was already too late, and many had been bought out or filed for bankrupcy.


The FCC should be disbanded or everyone involved fired and started fresh. The head is just looking to secure another job somewhere and doesn't care crap about the country he's supposed to be serving..

It would help if it didn't cost at least $1 million to run for office these days. With the internet, you tube, and other free services, you should be able to run a much more effective campaign almost for free without having to throw lavish parties and rallies and all that. I'm waiting for a good, average and honest citizen to realize that and get their neck in the game.

But so long as only old white business men who know how to twist and turn the system to their advantage run for any office, this country will be in ruins within a few centuries, if not sooner, heh. Take a look at that idiot who freed Paris Hilton over the judges ruling for the perfect example of idiots in office :).

hey men this is a really bad action!

it is the way VOIP links to ANY phone network.

Yes, absolutely, but, nothing wrong with paying the phone network their dues. Here in Canada, we pay Bell Canada for each and every connection onto their network. On Network calls cost us nothing, while any calls utilizing their network is a paid service. I do not see the problem here - I guess everyone wants the Vonage unlimited calls for $20/month - but, just like web hosting :) this doesnt exist. A VoIP provider needs to average out their usage (on net vs off net) and factor in an average. The problem then becomes re-educating the consumer on the actual costs of the service - this starting to sound familiar?

quote=Somerset Internet;4449472]vonage got a temporary stay and they had to post a 66 million dollar bond with the courts

excellent time to buy vonage stock which is trading around 3 dollars down from a high of over 17 dollars (USD)[/quote]

damn, wish i had been on here awhile ago