Hi,

I just came here from the RS forums and I think this would be frowned upon there, but I might post it there as well. I realize there is a lot of stories here. I realize some are unfair or that people expect too much, but I believe this is legitimate.

Now all of this isn't just a support issue, and I realize they are unmanaged servers. I'm going to be completely fair about this. Overall, I wasted money and couldn't get a refund for some time I should have and didn't get any service at all.

I've had a server at Rackshack for a few months. I was happy overall, other than some downtime that happened (not a huge deal, it happens). The story is basically this. I got one of their 1.7 ghz P4 servers, with two 60 gig drives and a gig of RAM with 600 gig's/mo. bandwidth special. That was a great deal and I grabbed it while it was there. In fact, it even came with a free GeoTrust SSL certificate too! This was about 3 or 4 months ago.

I don't think I ever had one problem with the hardware, it was a nice system. I never used any bandwidth as I never got to really put anything on the system, but I'm sure I'd have gotten the 600 gigs promised. So overall, other than some poor connections (due to a few DoS attacks I hear), I was happy what the above.

The problem was this. I wasn't too sure about Ensim (which came with it). I thought it wouldn't be so bad, but I can always remove it if I feel it is best. I saw how out of date the software it used was, especially things like SSH and things that are important to have updated. I didn't like how it tied everything into the system.

I decided I was going to have to remove it. I also had to modify the partition scheme on the system, since they install everything onto / and that's it. I luckily had the other drive and I just repartitioned it, set it to ext3 and did what I wanted and moved the directories to their new partition.

I then went and set everything up (Qmail, Vpopmail, djbdns, Apache, PHP, modules and so on) and spent a lot of time getting everything set up. I backed up my data to my network system and backed it up to the other drive on the server itself as well.

Then the problem happened. Firstly, I inquired about obtaining IP's as I have some other name serves and SSL sites to set up. I was told that they have no more IP's on this block and would have to move me. Well what happens when they run out on that block? Move me again and have all the DNS information change every time? That's not even the problem, that was just annoying. The problem is this: A file became corrupt for some reason. It was a glibc library issue and none of the commands would work. I was stuck, I'd need to have them install the glibc rpm to fix it. Of course they won't do that, they will only reboot your server or do a reinstall (for a price). I don't know if it was the drive failing or what. I couldn't get back into a shell, and nothing would work. I was stuck.

I emailed them trying to get someone to simply install the glibc rpm, and they wouldn't. I called and emailed asking them that if I was willing to pay, could I just have a reinstall of plain Redhat 7.2 and not Ensim. I was going to have to remove it again (which is a very large hassle) and if anything ever happened with clients on the server that I would have to repartition the system, remove Ensim again and do so much. They said they couldn't because of possible incompatibility with their install image.

I said that I didn't care and I looked at this install along with the plain Redhat install and it used all the same drivers (I'd have to compile a new kernel anyway when it was back up). They refused. I said I would pay and if it didn't work, I'd call it a loss and pay again for them to install the Ensim image. Why would they care? "We won't, we can't" was their response.

I tried emailing and calling and talking to someone else. I was then told they won't, they can't, they refuse to, no matter what they simply won't. I asked why and I was told it was due to "inventory" because they have so many types of systems of each install and that would make their numbers incorrect. So I was given another, different reason this time. Inventory can be changed, anyone that works in retail knows that, you can just change the number. So I was stuck.

I got nothing, no help. They will reboot the server or reinstall the original image only. They won't do anything else. They wouldn't simply log into the server and install an rpm, even if I was willing to pay, nothing. I was faced with a reinstall of the original image, which meant anything later down the road would require the same, all the work, all the loss and the reinstalls. What a hassle and a nightmare!

It very much worried me that even if I do my job to keep it running well and up to date, that any problem with the hardware or software could render the server useless and require a massive amount of work to get back up. My concerns were valid and I would never run a server there for anything that wasn't a site that was personal and didn't make a profit.

I decided to cancel as I was to be billed for the next month within those few days. I tried going to their ticket system and it was down. I tried again later and again. I tried the next day. It was up and I sent them the request about it and after seeing it had charged my credit card that day prior, I explained the situation and asked for a refund as I'd not be using those 30 days and I wasn't able to cancel due to it being down and while I was trying to get some support of some kind in regards to the system itself and what I could do.

I was told I'd have to request it before it was billed. I didn't ask for a refund for the setup fee, for the months I had the server sitting there. Simply for a month I wasn't going to be using and wanted to cancel. Simply because their system to request the cancellation was down that day. I didn't see anywhere that said I could call in to cancel, as their site says the information you need to give them to verify it. So I wasted another month and I'll be billed again on the 16th or so. I just left it there to display the index page as Apache is still up. Email, SSH, FTP and everything else other than Apache and the name service is toast.

It's not so much that they wouldn't do anything custom, or they wouldn't move one damn inch to work with me or the like, but also the fact that they refused to refund even one month of money because their system was down. All I got was refusal to comply and attitudes. Fine, I should have foreseen the worst case scenario and never signed up. We all see these great deals and think "How can I really loose"? Well you'll loose big time if anything goes wrong. They don't work at all with you.

You might think like I did, and as long as you know what you're doing it can't be that bad. I was wrong. It is that bad. You can't prevent a hardware failure. And if that happens you are doomed unless you use the default install. If you do, your system will be unstable and insecure because of the software that Ensim ties into everything. So you have to modify, add and remove things and that means you have a lot of recovery to do. I'm very upset about this. There's one thing to not offer help or support and hold people's hands, but when something goes wrong and they have a staff that will either flat out refuse to do any simple thing or install an image that shouldn't matter in regards to my server, nothing, then you have a problem!

The worst part if that my cousin who is a regular at this forum had warned me, joked about it and even mocked me about it (all in good fun, but out of concern). I can't say I wasn't warned, but I didn't think it would be that bad, as long as I knew what I was doing and that I'd be fine. The point is that the most minor problem happens and you're faced with the original image to be reinstalled, all your changes and data gone. Backups won't do much good if you have to spend two days getting everything back in order just to use your backup. I pretty much figured from the start that I wasn't sure if I felt comfortable with the idea of having clients on this server in light of the situation, before I ever had a problem.

I'm not trying to be cheap and I'm not complaining because I expect the work for $137 a month, but I expect that they won't borderline screw you. That's how I feel it was anyway. How much does it take to just hook up a system and let am image be installed automatically, put it into a rack and plug it into a switch? That's all they do, that's it. Other than that it's a reboot or it's a complete reinstall and nothing else.

Where was the warning on their site that those are my only options if anything at all happens? Where was this stated what version of software Ensim runs? How about how it takes over the system and makes it difficult to impossible to upgrade any services that are vital and vulnerable? You're stuck. If you change anything, you're doomed if you need a reinstall. Even if it was the same image you upgraded, think about all the stuff you'd have to upgrade again because you can't just use your backups for those aspects? That's scary to think about a situation to be stuck in!

I can't believe anyone would use these people. What service do they even provide? Okay it's cheap, I got a good system (I think) and a good deal. What is that worth to me? Well it's worth nothing, I lost out. It's not worth risking. Even if it was free, you couldn't host any clients on the system of you'd be doomed. All I was trying to do was get a decent system up for a good price so I could have a place to start until I grew and then I could be hosted on a quality server and perhaps use the RS server for an additional remote backup.

However the non-service, non-support you get if anything goes wrong, it's not worth it for free. You'd loose a large amount of money. Hey, I tried it, I gave it a chance and I was fair and look what happened. I pretty much knew it wouldn't be something that I could ever really use as a web host anyway, but that still doesn't make it any less horrible of an experience. I highly do not recommend these jokers! I'm very upset about this, you talk about a complete and utter waste of time and just a complete joke of a service! Who here, given the funds, can't set up a hack job of a service like this by buying in bulk and being sloppy and careless enough to run a company like this and call it a service? Yes, maybe I can't expect much for $137 a month, but I sure expect SOMETHING more than NOTHING at all! I really had to let that all out, thanks for listening!

Robert, I sympathize with your situation, but I think the only substance in your complaint is the billing issue.

Rackshack's support is famous for their "reboot or restore" policy. And you even stated that you knew the servers are unmanaged. They truly do stick to their "R&R" policy, for one because they probably don't have enough qualified admin, or that it simply isn't cost-effiective for them if this becomes the normal. You probably should have expected this.

As for your complaints about ensim taking over the machine, that is very true. You probably could have researched about that before. Even though I never used ensim, I know how difficult it is to uninstall and try to get a clean box. Of course, the shortcoming of ensim coupled with Rackshack's "R&R" made the situation even worse, but I don't think it is fare for you to put this on rackshack as well.

Rackshack's is very inflexible, but that's why their price is so low. You don't go to a fast food store and asked the cashier to "customize your order" for you.

Don't get me wrong, I feel this is a sad situation as well. But I also want to get the fact staights.

As for the billing issue, I believe that you are entirely right about it. Their system was down, and so it is their responsibility to refund your money.

P.S. You may want to contact Patrick from rackshack, he is the one who truly knows what's going on and can help resolve issues.

Peter

In RackShack's defense, they've done a lot more than "Restore & Reboot", at least for me.

About a month ago I bought one of the Athlon XP 1700+ boxes. Unfortunately, the kernel didn't come with HIGHMEM support, it only read the first 896 megs out of my 1024 megs of ram.

I filed a trouble ticket with them, and within a few days, a RS tech got around to sshing into my box and compiling a new kernel for me.

When I had users on a certain IP unable to reach me, they SSHed into my box and found a bad route, pointing me in the right direction to fix my problem.

They haven't been perfect, and they certainly haven't been instant, but they've been good. I feel like they're putting effort into support for my "unmanaged" server.

I've been extremely happy with my server, and the support I've recieved with it.

I've got to agree here - the billing is the only thing w/ a justifiable gripe. They don't advertise any more than what they did otherwise and nobody should expect it - not for $99/month. If they do go above and beyond you can chalk it up to a nice tech....Don't buy a yugo and bitch because they won't drop in a ferrari engine!

Originally posted by rpg-works
I filed a trouble ticket with them, and within a few days, a RS tech got around to sshing into my box and compiling a new kernel for me.



lol within a few days? thats horrible

Originally posted by rpg-works
In RackShack's defense, they've done a lot more than "Restore & Reboot", at least for me.

About a month ago I bought one of the Athlon XP 1700+ boxes. Unfortunately, the kernel didn't come with HIGHMEM support, it only read the first 896 megs out of my 1024 megs of ram.

I filed a trouble ticket with them, and within a few days, a RS tech got around to sshing into my box and compiling a new kernel for me.

What a crock of ****. If they had any kind of quality assurance or at least tested their boxes before putting them up for sale - they wouldn't have had to recompile your kernel.

It took them a few days to come and recompile it? I think you should sit back and think about what you are saying. If you bought a big mac and you got a chicken burger, you would EXPECT them to swap it. So don't suggest even for a second that their support is good because you FINALLY got what you PAID for after a tech was kind enough to recompile your kernel.

*laugh*

Hi everyone,

I clearly said what I was upset about and why. That's different from assuming I'm upset because I expected too much for too little. I have a good idea what this is all about and how it works. However, I still have a right to be upset about all these events transpiring in the way they did. I'm not saying RS is bad for what it is, just that due to these things I simply don't see how any price is worth it. It's a little unnerving, but that's my view on it. I honestly don't know what good they are for if you can't have anything done. In regards to warnings, I got some, but nothing specific, only that it's not worth it and a few reasons that I could handle myself and not worry about them for. In regards to what they advertise or not, they do not state anywhere on their site about either a reboot or restore or nothing. So before you start screaming about that, let's be fair here. I believe I was in my complaint.

After all, they don't say this and what the circumstances are in regards to support. Also their member ticket area has a great number of things listed that gives you the impression that they'll at least be willing to log into your server and run a command. I didn't claim they promised they would, but it is assumed they will provide something. There's a difference between unmanaged servers and "we won't even look at your system or touch it, ever, for any reason, unless you specifically want a reboot done or you want us to reinstall". There was no indication of that. I didn't ask them for anything unreasonable, I didn't say it was their fault that they are so unwilling to do ANYTHING at all to provide support. I simply said that I wouldn't suggest anyone that cares about their server get a dedicated there, not if it's for anything business oriented. After all, the concerns I expressed were valid and realistic. Perhaps that isn't a valid concern for some people.

Nonetheless, I am surprised they'd log into someone's server and compile a new kernel. Indeed it should have been originally, but I personally would have just compiled it myself. I honestly didn't expect the world, and I said that. I didn't expect anything other than some very quick, basic things. I don't blame them for not being kind or helpful, but it still sucks that they weren't. I'm speaking in regards to the image installs. But it's their business, who am I to dare and be unhappy about anything, because I don't pay enough and assume that things are expressed in their services unless otherwise noted or it's within reason to not assume it's the case -- and actually dare to assume that they could do some support with their hardware if needed. And shame on me for not wanting to resort to just a full reinstall, right? I was fair in my comments, I am upset with what happened and how they work and rightfully so.

The fact was, I did not agree to those conditions upon sign-up and I've never seen a dedicated provider lack any support at all in regards to issues on their end and it is reasonable to assume these things are expressed unless otherwise noted. Truly, it's not unreasonable to assume, even at $99 a month (which I was paying more than by the way) that if you have a file corrupted that you'd think someone could be paid to simply log in, run a command and be done with it, rather than saying "No, all we can and will do for you is wipe your system and do a complete reinstall". Also, I dealt with the facts as they happened and didn't expect anything other than a refund I think I'm entitled to. I did express my feelings about being upset, yes. Don't make more out of what I said than I did, I wasn't being irrational or unreasonable at all. That's all I have to say, I don't want to guess the reasons why people assume more to this than was said. I realize people unjustly complain, but I think my comments were justified and legitimate (and all I asked for was that refund). Where's the confusion? Thank you.

Originally posted by hosticle


What a crock of ****. If they had any kind of quality assurance or at least tested their boxes before putting them up for sale - they wouldn't have had to recompile your kernel.

It took them a few days to come and recompile it? I think you should sit back and think about what you are saying. If you bought a big mac and you got a chicken burger, you would EXPECT them to swap it. So don't suggest even for a second that their support is good because you FINALLY got what you PAID for after a tech was kind enough to recompile your kernel.

*laugh*

naw

they dont recompile
they install a RPM

Oh, installing an RPM

Well thats harder - guess 24 hours makes it fair

;)

I'm being a sarcastic bitch today - sorry about that

The girlfriends moods are rubbing off on me *cough* :D

2host.com, gosh. What a breath of fresh air.
I'm extremely happy to see an articulate & intelligent complaint.
You actually understand what your talking about.

Instead of the generic crazed users.

As to thier "R&R" policy:
- It probably should be explained in their website or at least in some documentation involved in the sign-up proccess. In their defense quite frankly, that's what an unmanaged server means.

Again in their defense:
- If I were running a company similar to RS I would sure as heck stand by a strict "R&R" policy and a strict set of software packages. Anything else the user does to it is their business. If something happens, I'll restore it to the way they purchased it if they want. Why?...

The last stat I heard from them is that they have 157,000+ users (That stats from 2000).... I would make sure that every system in their is the same OS (Ensim in their case)...
Why? Simplifies troubleshooting 100 fold. If you had some boxes running Mandrake, some Ensim, some RH 6.x some RH 7.x, whatever...
Diagnosing some network (and they have a big network) problems would be unbelievable....

BTW... RS Does offer servers w/ RH7.2 pre-installed on them but, thats a mute point.

Originally posted by hosticle
I'm being a sarcastic bitch today - sorry about that

The girlfriends moods are rubbing off on me *cough* :D

lol well he said a few days :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Studio64
2host.com, gosh. What a breath of fresh air.
I'm extremely happy to see an articulate & intelligent complaint.
You actually understand what your talking about.

Instead of the generic crazed users.

As to thier "R&R" policy:
- It probably should be explained in their website or at least in some documentation involved in the sign-up proccess. In their defense quite frankly, that's what an unmanaged server means.

Again in their defense:
- If I were running a company similar to RS I would sure as heck stand by a strict "R&R" policy and a strict set of software packages. Anything else the user does to it is their business. If something happens, I'll restore it to the way they purchased it if they want. Why?...

The last stat I heard from them is that they have 157,000+ users (That stats from 2000).... I would make sure that every system in their is the same OS (Ensim in their case)...
Why? Simplifies troubleshooting 100 fold. If you had some boxes running Mandrake, some Ensim, some RH 6.x some RH 7.x, whatever...
Diagnosing some network (and they have a big network) problems would be unbelievable....

BTW... RS Does offer servers w/ RH7.2 pre-installed on them but, thats a mute point.

yeah but....
thats with a totally diff box
diff hardware
etc

Originally posted by hosticle
I'm being a sarcastic bitch today - sorry about that

The girlfriends moods are rubbing off on me *cough* :D
wait til you get married and start breeding. You're sitting on easy street now my friend!! :D :)

Regarding the billing issue:

When you sign up you agree to that you have to give a 30 days cancellation notice.

Hi,

Thanks for understanding where I was coming from. I realize that unmanaged means they don't assist you with fixing your problems and are only liable for having the network up and stable, having power and making sure that the hardware isn't failing. I just wish they had a better system to deal with it.

I think they should clearly mention the issues involved with what they will do with this Reboot and Restore policy. I don't blame them and I agree with your logic. You can't expect them to want to have the hassle of fixing everyone's problems. That would be a lot and the price of their systems don't offset the costs for that type of support. However I honestly thought it would still involve something simple like I mentioned in the problem I outlined. If I thought they were liable to do it, I'd have expected a full refund, but I don't.

I just didn't see any indication that they'd not touch it at all. That makes me nervous and I was simply trying to convey that fact and why it might be too risky and not valuable or a good idea for some people due to that. Again, I've never seen a provider not even offer simple things, yet they'll be willing to commit a large task such as an OS image reinstall. I don't create their policies though and I can accept that, but it did upset me because I'd have really liked to stayed with them. Moreover and especially considering the system and bandwidth I got. After all, I've never seen a deal like that.

In light of the facts and situation though, I had to move to a new data center. I have a system with the same specs now with not as much bandwidth, but good. The data center also was willing to install plain Redhat 7.2, I told them how I wanted the drive partitioned and I spoke with them and got a good feeling and that they too don't offer managed servers but that will at least allow you the option of trying some minor things (and probably a lot more, really) if I need them to, rather than a reinstall. The deal I got was a great price too. So, over all I'm not complaining and this isn't the most expensive dedicated provider either. I'm okay with that, I'll move to an excellent one eventually when I know I've got a good client base.


I simply didn't want to pay a lot to not be able to offer very good deals. That's to say, I want to be able to provide all the system/plan specifications I promise the users and not oversell, yet still have great prices. So you can imagine it's not easy to find a provider with similar prices, a decent connection and also expect much support (even if I'm willing to pay). RackSpace (not rackshack), Site5, NAC, Verio, etc. would be great, but they are more expensive and it makes it difficult to make money until you've really got a good client base going or are forced to charge a lot. This all made it difficult and frustrating, but I don't blame RS for that aspect, of course.

I just wish they'd have hired on a staff member that people could have the option to pay to get some very basic things done that we can't do remotely is all. I understand the issues involved with not wanting to supports servers where every client has a different set up or foundation. I do wish they'd have some option though. I realize they offer plain Redhat installs, which is why I hoped they could just let it be MY problem if it didn't work.

Anyway, that's just how it is, I'll get over it, but I just don't see a lot of value in them for a lot of people due to those reasons. Also, the plain Redhat installs would mean I have to pay another set up fee and get a system with a lot less hardware (only 512 megs RAM instead of one gig, one drive that's smaller (instead of two 60 gig), not as fast CPU (a 1 ghz instead of a 1.7, etc.), a lot less quality (A Duron or Celeron CPU rather than a P4, not as good of hard drive brands) and a lot less bandwidth (400 gig's instead of 600), plus that I was on a good part of the network where I have seen other's experience slower trasnfer speeds (I'd not wanted to have moved). They just were very unfriendly and unflexible in a bad way (for me). Anyway, thanks for the comments, I just felt like I should blow off steam and I was upset (obviously). Have a good one.

Originally posted by GAMPort
Regarding the billing issue:

When you sign up you agree to that you have to give a 30 days cancellation notice.

I don't recall ever seeing that in their TOS or contract and I have copies caves on my drive.

Account Cancellation: All requests for canceling accounts must be made in writing with at least 30 days notice but not more than 60 days prior written notice and sent to RackShack Attn: Cancellations, P. O. Box 541673, Houston, TX 77254-1673 or you may call 713-333-7873 or fax the cancellation request to 713- 942-9332. You must have all account information to cancel.


http://www.rackshack.net/aboutus/tos.asp

Originally posted by Studio64


http://www.rackshack.net/aboutus/tos.asp

My mistake. I think I do recall seeing that. Well, last months notice would be sufficient than to at least allow me to fully cancel before my next billing date, as I've already informed them I would be. Strangely enough I spoke with a respresentative on the phone and via a CS ticket and support ticket as well and asked them if they require 30 days notice and they all sdaid no. That is why I was thinking that. Perhaps it's due to my problem with their service being justfied? Perhaps it's because I have been on them for a few months? Either way, the representative clearly and specifically said that I can cancel right then. I guess he didn't mean I wouldn't still be charged for another month? So, I suppose that refund for that month is out of the question. Only $800 total down the drain for a RS server I never got to use. Thanks for posting that.

I mistakenly quoted, rather than edited the above post. What? You can't delete your own post here?

I would try to contact someone at RS about this.... Try going up the totem poll to someone important...

If I recall from a previous post you really didn't use any bandwidth so you didn't incur them a great deal of costs (aside from of course setting up the server, and you actually being on the server making it unavailble for another sale) they might be flexiable w/ you....

RS Staff on this server has always been level headed and friendly. Not saying they will cut you a break (There under no obligation to) but, it can't hurt to try.

I understand what you're saying. I made some attempts to get the other issue resolved without that happening, but this is another matter. Yes, I didn't use much bandwidth. I basically just downloaded the kernel source, Apache, Qmail, etc. and not a whole lot else. I don't expect that means much, but I figure at least I don't have to pay again this month without a conflict. I'm not poor and I can take the loss, but money that can be used for other things is no fun to loose out on. I'll see what happens.

I too have to stepped into RS' defense.

From my experience, RS is really R&R only. But they do try to solve your problems if you really have one.

The only problem with RS, is the contact person. Going through the Ticketing system must be your first choice of getting support. Then try again if failed. Then go to the senior people until you get your problem solved.

So far, I have to admit if you can get to Patrick of EV1, your problems can be considered solved. I believe that EV1 and RS has a guardian angel in Patrick.