I want to know what's with people.

I know when people keep asking the same question it's frustrating, however i don't think its really nice when people ask a question and get yelled at or told to go somewhere and read something.
I was in the dedicated forum earlier and a guy was asking for help, he got yelled at and told to learn to read.
I've been in other forums too where people get their head bitten off.

Forgive me but i thought the point of a help forum was for peopel to get help. If you are new to something, reading all the techno stuff on some sites may not help as you may not understand it.

God listen to me, i must be in one of those sympathetic moods :cool:

falling stock prices? :rolleyes:

Hi Taz

I know - but you have to put with it and take care of your own customers. Support is now becomeing a dirty word here - just you learn to care and be patiant and you'll never regret it.

Hey i dont mean customer support, i mean newbies on here asking for help with their business or their server, they just seem to get their heads bitten off

I tend to agree actually. There's a lot of,
'try the search button, stupid'
replies. If you don't want to answer someone's question then just don't reply, I say. The simple fact is, you'll always hear the same questions whether it's your own customers or people here.

In a perfect world everyone would read the rules first, try the search button second, and check out google third, then ask here. It's not a perfect world so often a question asked 24 hours ago gets asked again.

In my opinion reading those sarcastic comments is often more annoying than the original question, and adds nothing more to the thread than another pointless post.

Greg Moore

It's the internet, people tend to be real obnoxious when they don't have to face someone in real life...

That's the trouble with the Internet - people tend to talk a little louder than they normally would in real life. If you can't offer proper advice, then don't even hit the button to reply...

Of course, there can be some really annoying individuals who are just begging to get their heads bitten off, but that's another case.

Its not unreasonable to poke back at *extreme newbies* who start off a thread with a variation of :

"hi just got a server and all I know is Windows sorta and what button do I press to make it turn into a web host"

Frankly I think its a waste of time, most of the time, to hold someone's hand from the very beginning.

I've worked with and hired technical staff over a long period of time and I know for certain that the very best are those who know how to dig for answers, on their own. sysadmins need to have skill at logically breaking down a problem into sub-problems, while also being able to infer bigger pictures.

Someone that can't even be bothered to do a basic search here on WHT or Google faces such an uphill climb that its not worth the energy teaching them, IMO. Surely there are other junior people that could benefit more from mentoring.

Someone clearly at the bottom rung of the learning curve ladder who takes offense to suggestions that they read up and get a basic grounding first -- is never going to get to the middle of the ladder let alone the top.

No gawd given right exists granting all people the ability to become good at a given area of expertise. If they don't have the basic personal equipment, they should find something else to do. I'll never be a talented guitar player, or a carpenter, much as I wish I could be. C'est la vie.

I guess the alternative is to always reward innane questions with thoughtful answers - I do my fair share of that every day. But if you don't challenge people every so often, how is progress achieved? I suspect every once in a while a poster or lurker actually does take up the challenge and become a better sysadmin for it.

My two cents.

i must agree im sure i have done the same thing and been a jerk but see i do agree with all of this. I have seen it way to much. Maybe people could kindly suggest it. Like answer the guys question then go ahead and tell them to try and use the search feature for quicker refrence next time. There are nice ways to tell ppl. Yes its annoying to see the same question agian every 24 hours but if it annoys someone then they dont have to go in and post in it. The reason it annoys you is because you go and sit through and read it. Just dont read it and you will be fine. Thats my 2 cents.

Originally posted by tazd9t9
I want to know what's with people.

I know when people keep asking the same question it's frustrating, however i don't think its really nice when people ask a question and get yelled at or told to go somewhere and read something.
I was in the dedicated forum earlier and a guy was asking for help, he got yelled at and told to learn to read.
I've been in other forums too where people get their head bitten off.

Forgive me but i thought the point of a help forum was for peopel to get help. If you are new to something, reading all the techno stuff on some sites may not help as you may not understand it.

God listen to me, i must be in one of those sympathetic moods :cool:

I saw this exact same thing on the Technical/Security Issues board; some guy was in desperate need for help with Linux on his server, and someone responded just yelling at him to learn how to read. It bothers me, in this case especially, because, for anyone who does use Linux (including myself), you all know what it felt like to be "new" to it and to try and figure things out. I personally do NOT like asking people for help unless I have done a large amount of searching on the issue (books, google, newsgroups, anywhere I can), but that is just because I am always worried my question is stupid and I'll look like a fool ;) And I do feel that people should learn how to do things on their own, and that self-teaching allows for much higher gratification, but nevertheless, people don't have to be so rude about it.

Originally posted by secludo


I saw this exact same thing on the Technical/Security Issues board; some guy was in desperate need for help with Linux on his server, and someone responded just yelling at him to learn how to read. It bothers me, in this case especially, because, for anyone who does use Linux (including myself), you all know what it felt like to be "new" to it and to try and figure things out. I personally do NOT like asking people for help unless I have done a large amount of searching on the issue (books, google, newsgroups, anywhere I can), but that is just because I am always worried my question is stupid and I'll look like a fool ;) And I do feel that people should learn how to do things on their own, and that self-teaching allows for much higher gratification, but nevertheless, people don't have to be so rude about it.

I have to say the way i learned linux was nto all books and stuff but alot was just asking questions in forums and getting kind ppl to answer. Yes i got answers from other forums like....YOU NOOB GET OUT OF HERE and stuff but then there was that nice guy that would always answer you and well here i am today.

Long story short ... be nice ppl because think of how you got where you are today...most likely it was because of a nice guy somewhere.

I noticed another form of bashing the other day. There was a user posting a FYI on spam and people just kinda busted his balls for now reason at all and just kept going on and on, Seems like if one person bitches the rest of the vultures start swarming around and poking at it.. Too bad most of those users dont even realize they were using his script on there sites most likely.. Anyways.. hopefully they will take a midol and chill out soon.

I've been noticing a lot of the 'RTFM' mentality lately too... sigh...

yes the RTFM mentality around here is getting out of hand..

maybe we should set up a be nice to newbies campaign LOL

Why is "learn to read" such a bad thing?

If you're too lazy to read the man page, search or to pick up a book then how do you think you're gonna learn?

If someone gives you a direct answer, then you're not really learning. If you actually go and search then you're gonna learn more then you asked for (a bad thing?)

Some people actually bust their balls to get good information and learn as much as possible, then there are people who just come to chat room, post their 20 lines source code, or 2 page question, and expect people to hold their hand and help them all day.

That's the difference from real admins. People who actually want to learn and will put time in research are the ones who will be on top and never fear for their job taken away from them.

Originally posted by Shyne
Why is "learn to read" such a bad thing?

If you're too lazy to read the man page, search or to pick up a book then how do you think you're gonna learn?

If someone gives you a direct answer, then you're not really learning. If you actually go and search then you're gonna learn more then you asked for (a bad thing?)

Some people actually bust their balls to get good information and learn as much as possible, then there are people who just come to chat room, post their 20 lines source code, or 2 page question, and expect people to hold their hand and help them all day.

That's the difference from real admins. People who actually want to learn and will put time in research are the ones who will be on top and never fear for their job taken away from them.

I agree, but it doesn't have to be put so bluntly and rude. People could at the very LEAST point someone in the right direction. I first started learning Linux when I was 13 years old (am 19 now) - even after that long, I am not THAT advanced. At that time, I hated reading man pages and documentation - why? Because seriously, man pages are not that well documented. This is why I own so many damn Unix/Linux books. Most of the books I bought on Linux are trying to teach me through the GUI, and that also drove me nuts, since it was not what I wanted to learn. I know how to point and click with a mouse :) I really started getting into Linux when I was about 16, because I finally for the first time found a man page useful :)

I already said this (don't know if it was here or in another post), but I personally do believe that learning on your own is much better than having someone teach or tell you. There is much more gratification out of it, and on top of that, there is a much higher chance that you will remember. Like I said before, I do NOT like asking people questions unless I absolutely have to. Usually I can find an answer to my question by myself. BUT, either way, everyone has to start somewhere, and being an ass by just saying, "RTFM" or "LEARN HOW TO READ" is not very encouraging or helpful.

There is nothing wrong with telling people to read stuff, but don't you ever just want a quick answer. Say you have a problem with something that needs fixing quickly its better to ask somone than have to drag out loads of books or webpages and try and decipher all that techno babble in them.
Where would the world be if people never passed on information, say the cancer research companies all said, oh no sorry we wont ever share any info RTFM .
plus by reading are you not just taking the work someone else has worked hard on? If you are reading something written by someone else then they are the ones who have spent hours of hands on experience learning about it, alls you have done is picked up their book and read it.

Yes but most people want to post to up their post count :P

Originally posted by akashik
I tend to agree actually. There's a lot of,
'try the search button, stupid'
replies. If you don't want to answer someone's question then just don't reply, I say. The simple fact is, you'll always hear the same questions whether it's your own customers or people here.

In a perfect world everyone would read the rules first, try the search button second, and check out google third, then ask here. It's not a perfect world so often a question asked 24 hours ago gets asked again.

In my opinion reading those sarcastic comments is often more annoying than the original question, and adds nothing more to the thread than another pointless post.

Greg Moore