Not sure if this is the most appropriate forum to post this thread in (if not then Mod please move it) but I've been emailing Ventrilo like there's no tomorrow trying to get a license but they never seem to reply. Its been 6 months now. I'm going through a reseller right now but I have a lot of excess bandwidth on all my boxes that I can use up for ventrilo.

My question is does anybody out there have their phone number or another way of contacting them about licensing?

If not, anybody know a provider that will just rent out the license on a per slot basis for me (of course I'd pay a bit of a premium).

Thanks guys.

Yazan.

Maybe you can try giving them a call? Their last news article was July of last year...seems they might not be very active these days.

Registrant Name: Brian Knapp
Registrant Organization: Brian Knapp
Registrant Address: 1013 Robert Dr
Registrant Address 2: 1013 Robert Dr
Registrant City: Maryville
Registrant State/Province: IL
Registrant Postal Code: 62062
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone Number: +61.83431956

It's practically impossible to get a license from Ventrilo. I know a few other companies that keep ringing and emailing too.

I used http://www.hurricanehost.com/reselling/ when I ran a GSP all those (about 2) years ago.

Even if you buy out a company that has a Ventilo license, you're not allowed to keep it.

What's with them?

Even if you buy out a company that has a Ventilo license, you're not allowed to keep it.

What's with them?

They have a product that people want and essentially they're creating a monoply over it. They know people will bend over backwards for a license no matter what they choose to do (business practices, etc) I know many people that have tried to countless extents to try and get one without avail. Those that did get one had to pickup 10,000 slots on startup @ $.10 a slot monthly to Ventrilo if I recall currently. All and all, while it may seem like a great product to sell, I'd like for another avenue to use up your extra bandwith :) Just my advice.

Hmmm that wouldn't be so bad if I can get that deal. I have plenty of bandwidth and I can sell those slots without a problem (at least break even without a problem).

Does ventrilo even provide any of the control panels? I know they don't provide the reseller panels, but what about the interface they give to the businesses, can anybody tell us what they provide?

thanks.

Last I heard, they were developing a panel to provide to business with licenses for a fee. Although your better bet is to purchase a license for an existing panel, or better yet, have a custom one made. Hope thats helps.

Well I need a license first before I have to worry about the panel.

Not even a provider out there I can piggyback on top of? How many companies are licensed out there?

I know alot of people who have made ventrilo panels it seems to be alot easier then something like a game server panel. Not positive though might want to do some research. Im still stuck with a reseller paying $00.25/slot instead of the $0.10/slot direct from ventrilo :-/ doesn't seem like a whole lot but when your talking 10s of thousands of slots its a big deal.

Being a professional licensed hoster I can tell you they don't provide any type of interface and I'm not aware of any plans by ventrilo to offer a panel for license holders or anyone else. If you hold a license you already have a panel so I don't see the point and I doubt ventrilo would waste time building something nobody would use anyway..

Ya I was thinking the same thing as Rich.

I'll give somebody $100 if they can get me a license :)

What does TeamSpeak charge per slot to host their servers?

What does TeamSpeak charge per slot to host their servers?

It's a tiered pricing system.


http://sales.tritoncia.com/pricing.php

That's not really worth is since most of the gamers want Ventrilo anyways.

Is it hard to get a license from them?

In order for an applicant to be considered you must meet the following minimum requirements.

1) You must have a legitimate business license in your state, country or jurisdiction. Please be prepared to provide proof when requested.

2) You agree to a 1000 slot minimum. Slot counts greater then 1000 are billed at the per slot rate for the total number of slots hosted. Slot counts below 1000 are billed at the per slot rate with the required minimum of 1000 slots.

3) Licensee's slot counts are expected to grow on a regular basis.

We do not license individuals or businesses who wish only to run one or two standalone servers. In these cases you will need to rent a server from one of our official licensees on the hosting page.

---

At least that's what's quoted as the minimums on their site...
I'd thought ppl had basically said tho that you'd have to commit to many thousands of slots, on many geographically diverse servers to be really considered tho.

That's not really worth is since most of the gamers want Ventrilo anyways.

Is it hard to get a license from them?

It's kind of like Coke or Pepsi. Each have there preferences. Licensing from Triconia is not hard to get. As a matter of fact most of my clients have TS not Vent since I give the TS servers for free with the gamservers. As for Vent I just resell it via Hurricane. Besides when I give the free servers I brand them with my logo so everyone that logs into a free teamspeak I provide see's my logo and a link to my site. ;) It turns out to be pretty good.

Well of course you have more TS servers.. You give the customer a choice between buying ventrilo or getting TS for free...

That's true as well ...

It's all up in the air right now.

If I were to buy out a company that has a Ventrilo license, how will they know? That's what I'm trying to figure out...

They would know.

Knappy can see that on his panel, and see what IPs you're using, everything.

Well of course you have more TS servers.. You give the customer a choice between buying ventrilo or getting TS for free...

And soon I will have them all on "ANZA" ;)

Whats Anza? wait and see.

Actually Rich you might be interested in this.

That's not really worth is since most of the gamers want Ventrilo anyways.

Is it hard to get a license from them?

Why do you say most gamers want Vent?

I have been a gamer for years now and have competed on many levels of CAL and we and most of the clans we played always used TS over Vent.

So why do you think that most of the gamers want Vent?

They are both good products though so I am not bashing Vent in any way but Teamspeak is much easier to deal with.

Like I said before it's a matter of choice. Like Coke or pepsi. Same basic Cola just diferent brands.

Why do you say most gamers want Vent?

I don't think its up for debate whether gamers prefer Ventrilo or teamspeak. Ventrilo is by far more used than TS. I dont believe TS is even being developed any further is it?

I don't think its up for debate whether gamers prefer Ventrilo or teamspeak. Ventrilo is by far more used than TS. I dont believe TS is even being developed any further is it?

Unless it secret from the public, I haven't heard any rumors etc. Gamers do not prefer ventrilo, they're trained to use it. When it first came out, many big teams were caught using it, sponsorships, and most kids starred in amazement. From there, it was the usual case of look who is using it, and more started having vents. Its nothing to say ventrilo is better, just more popular. Its just like life, the most popular car on the lot may be the best looking, but sometimes it doesn't drive. (Curse American Cars) Anyhow, I would agree, TS has a better app, voice quality, and serverside product, but it won't stop people from buying ventrilo. Whats in, is in in the gaming market :mad:

Jordan

TS has a better app, voice quality, and serverside product, but it won't stop people from buying ventrilo. Whats in, is in in the gaming market :mad:

Jdub,

Curious as to why you think TS has better voice quality when Ventrilo offers the GSM codec at twice the quality of the highest Speex codec available?

I don't know how accurate that is just by looking at our signup breakdown for voice servers we sell around 80% Ventrilo..

Ventrilo actually owns one of the main hosting providers, I believe it's Pure-Voice, or one of the other big ones, so they do not like to give out licensing....

That is "their problem". Plain and simple, TeamSpeak is a much better company to work with seeing they don't host servers so they aren't competing.

-']Jdub,

Curious as to why you think TS has better voice quality when Ventrilo offers the GSM codec at twice the quality of the highest Speex codec available?

Let me re-phrase. TS has been known to be more real time and deliver a much purer sound. By "quality" I did not mean codec, but rather the time relay and pureness of the voice. Often Ventrilo will distort an individuals slightly, while TS in my experience and some others will be slightly more "live" and actually captures the true voice of the individual. Hope this clarifys.

Jordan

Ventrilo actually owns one of the main hosting providers, I believe it's Pure-Voice, or one of the other big ones, so they do not like to give out licensing....

That is "their problem". Plain and simple, TeamSpeak is a much better company to work with seeing they don't host servers so they aren't competing.


Please don't spread rumors. I know the owner of Ventrilo and most of the professional hosters very well and can tell you without a doubt ventrilo doesn't host servers, own a company that does or have any interest in doing so.


Thanks

Well I know I heard of their involvement with hosting company. This told to me by another company who hosts Ventrilo servers. Sorry if it is a rumor, just what I was told about the whole situation.

I'd like to hear the reasoning why they don't accept licensing then if you know the owners. I was told it was because they were selling servers themselves, seems like the only reasonable explanation on why they would turn down licensing fees from other companies trying to sell their product.

You would have to speak to them about why they aren't offering licenses. It's not my place to say but as I said above they have no interest in selling servers.

This would be akin to Microsoft setting up a store to sell their Operating System.. Why would they do that when they can sit on their tails and collect a percentage of every OS sold without lifting a finger?

Well I believe a company like Microsoft would actually contact people interested in selling their product. Otherwise no new stores would be able to sell Microsoft products.

None of my interest though, just thought I would put in my 2 cents about what I was told.

I've always felt that TeamSpeak was a much easier company to work with and I will still stand by that.

My guess, and from reading their terms upon getting a new license, is that they want to create a VERY high standard on who hosts their product. Teamspeak will pretty much host anyone or anything, while ventrilo you have to prove it.

It appears that Ventrilo does not have any interest in selling their licenses to people who "have some extra bandwidth on a box" and I admire that, it is an indirect way or ensuring the end users get a quality product instead of someone just filling space or playing around.

Taken directly from their faq on page: http://www.ventrilo.com/purchase.php

We expect all licensee's to conduct them selves in a professional manner. Licensee's are expected to run their business like a business rather then a hobby. We are looking for businesses that demonstrate these characteristics and show the potential of being in business for a very long time.

also

3) Licensee's slot counts are expected to grow on a regular basis.

hope that helps a bit. If you are looking to fill some space, get teamspeak. If you are looking to setup a solid business plan and network, give ventrilo a shout.

I work for a company who, among other hosting service sites, runs one of (if not THE) biggest "resellers" of Ventrilo Servers in existence. We probably have resold more slots than 95% of the licensees.

Needless to say, we've tried every angle we can think of to contact Ventrilo about licensing. We're a large, established, respected company yet it's hard to even get a response from Flagship.

The most frustrating thing I must say is not the fact that we're not licensed, that's Brian's prerogative. The frustrating part of it is being ignored. I'd at least appreciate response from Brian telling us that he's not going to license us because he doesn't like us, or whatever other reason. Instead, there is no reply.

So, to sum up, I'd put asking for a license from Ventrilo in the same category as requesting placement in DMOZ. It's highly frustrating!

I highly doubt that, speaking for NationVoice.

What do you highly doubt?

If you listen to the countless others that tried to get a license and have been told no then you wouldn't be so frustrated ;)



BTW, Even the smaller licensed providers handle upwards of 50k slots so as a reseller if your padding someones pockets like that then god bless you.




I work for a company who, among other hosting service sites, runs one of (if not THE) biggest "resellers" of Ventrilo Servers in existence. We probably have resold more slots than 95% of the licensees.

Needless to say, we've tried every angle we can think of to contact Ventrilo about licensing. We're a large, established, respected company yet it's hard to even get a response from Flagship.

The most frustrating thing I must say is not the fact that we're not licensed, that's Brian's prerogative. The frustrating part of it is being ignored. I'd at least appreciate response from Brian telling us that he's not going to license us because he doesn't like us, or whatever other reason. Instead, there is no reply.

So, to sum up, I'd put asking for a license from Ventrilo in the same category as requesting placement in DMOZ. It's highly frustrating!

Please don't spread rumors. I know the owner of Ventrilo and most of the professional hosters very well and can tell you without a doubt ventrilo doesn't host servers, own a company that does or have any interest in doing so.


Thanks

I'm pretty certain Rich knows what he's talking about. :)

If you listen to the countless others that tried to get a license and have been told no then you wouldn't be so frustrated ;)


The fact that others are also frustrated doesn't lessen our degree of frustration. I don't see why it should.


BTW, Even the smaller licensed providers handle upwards of 50k slots so as a reseller if your padding someones pockets like that then god bless you.

Well, it's not a charity. We try to limit the padding.

Having boxes specifically for Ventrilo and a registered business doesn't count for much either these days.

Having boxes specifically for Ventrilo and a registered business doesn't count for much either these days.


What do you mean by that?

Well Defcon|Rich, would you mind letting us know why a company that meets all the requirements doesn't get a response about the license? Even if it is really big and reputable? I'm just wondering because I would like to sell as soon as my company grows bigger.

Perhaps there just not accepting new licensees to keep the market competitive yet small?

Lucas, You would have to ask them but from what I understand they simply aren't taking applications. I know of at least a few large datacenters that applied and were turned down so I really don't think it has anything to do with size or standing.


All I gotta say is Flagship built a pretty decent application and for awhile gave it away to anyone who wanted to use for hosting and charged a nominal fee if you made a profit selling it which most thought was fair. There were a dozen or so companies that did the right thing and sent the check along every month and when the kid hosters came along he put the licensing in effect because at the end of the day the (decent) ones "doing the right thing" were getting screwed..

So suffice to say when the licensing came into play the ones that were trying to build a solid business had the option to get one.

This has been the deal all along. It's not about money, never was. It's about people doing the right thing.

It's a good way to manage their product even thought it's really sad they've stopped accepting licensing for companies that would actually like to offer their product.

Yeah, it's totally up to Brian whether to license or not, and I don't fault him for not licensing companies any more. I understand there could be several considerations that go into the decision to limit licensees.

What is odd is the charade that license applications are actually being considered, among other things. For example, an email to "sales" about licensing gets a reply that licensing is very busy and they will try and reply back. The name of the person answering those "sales" emails is consipicuously missing, although I suspect it's Mr. Knapp himself.

My question to Mr. Knapp would be, why keep up the charade? Just tell people what's up. It could encourage more people to go to the resellers rather than wait for months for a license that will never be granted.

I agree with you there.

I do remeber at one time they had on there website a statement that said no more licensing will be granted but it somehow changed.

Someone at the end will end up making a new product either like or better than Ventrilo. That's what happens when people start getting limits on what they would like to have from something established. It's matter of time.

Someone at the end will end up making a new product either like or better than Ventrilo. That's what happens when people start getting limits on what they would like to have from something established. It's matter of time.


ANZA!!! :D

Odd, I did not have a problem getting a ventrilo license. I had not applied for you until 2006 due to threads like this (nobody can get one, blah blah blah). Within 2 weeks I had received an email from Brian asking why my company had decided to sell Ventrilo when we've yet to offer any sort of voice communication hosting in the past. He seemed satisfied with my answer and I had a license within a few days.

Perhaps some of those companies who receive no response or like to complain about the company should look at themselves. True professional companies do not seem to have any problems procuring a license from Flagship. They obviously do not want to have kiddy gsps with licenses selling ventrilo slots for $0.25/slot.

If you want something to complain about, discuss EA and their "ranked" licensing system. I've never attempted to contact them, I don't care to host the game. But I know a lot of companies that are unable to get a ranked licenses (non-kiddy gsps). Business is business, there's always a reason for being ignored or rejected.

Perhaps some of those companies who receive no response or like to complain about the company should look at themselves. True professional companies do not seem to have any problems procuring a license from Flagship.


Wrong, there are numerous companies that are very large and established in the game server industry and in the larger hosting industry that are unable to get licensed. Example: The Planet. They applied and were rejected for a license.


Business is business, there's always a reason for being ignored or rejected.

Whatever the "reason" for being ignored, it's very rude. Being rejected is dissapointing, but fine. Being ignored is just unprofessional.

Odd, I did not have a problem getting a ventrilo license. I had not applied for you until 2006 due to threads like this (nobody can get one, blah blah blah). Within 2 weeks I had received an email from Brian asking why my company had decided to sell Ventrilo when we've yet to offer any sort of voice communication hosting in the past. He seemed satisfied with my answer and I had a license within a few days.

Perhaps some of those companies who receive no response or like to complain about the company should look at themselves. True professional companies do not seem to have any problems procuring a license from Flagship. They obviously do not want to have kiddy gsps with licenses selling ventrilo slots for $0.25/slot.

Defcon|Rich said that a few big "datacenters" have been rejected. I guess there is a reason for everything, but I sincerely do not understand Flagship.

Prolly because they would abuse their license just like Windows :)

Prolly because they would abuse their license just like Windows :)

What are you talking about?

Defcon|Rich said that a few big "datacenters" have been rejected. I guess there is a reason for everything, but I sincerely do not understand Flagship.Perhaps it's because a datacenter may not devote as much time to Ventrilo/VoIP as a company that's fully dedicated to gaming/voice services would. Most companies I see with licenses are heavily involved in the gaming community.

I don't see ventrilo catering to the "walmarts" of the hosting world (thePlanet etc) for the same reason alot of folks would rather shop at the local hardware store then go to home depot..

I don't see ventrilo catering to the "walmarts" of the hosting world (thePlanet etc) for the same reason alot of folks would rather shop at the local hardware store then go to home depot..

The entity that applied and was rejected was actually "Server Matrix" which is devoted to game server hosting.

Regardless, that wasn't the point. The point is, there are countless large, professional, established hosts that are dedicated to game and/or voice hosting that have been rejected for a license.

Examples: Velocity-Servers.net, Counter-Strike.com, ArtofWarCentral.com

I'm sure there are half a dozen more top tier game server providers I could list, but these are just a few I'm aware of that aren't licensed, and are at least as "big" "professional" "established" and any other adjective you would like to add that describes a top game server provider compared to many of the other licensed hosts, including defcon servers (no slight intended).

There are dozens of providers that were also blacklisted for selling ventrilo and not paying the fees just prior to the licensing going into effect. I don't know if the ones you mentioned were among them but this may be why certain providers aren't able to get a license..

I'm not sure what your getting at with that remark about defconservers? Please explain.

There are dozens of providers that were also blacklisted for selling ventrilo and not paying the fees just prior to the licensing going into effect. I don't know if the ones you mentioned were among them but this may be why certain providers aren't able to get a license.

I'm sure that's right. Lots of people were being unethical prior to the newest licensing being introduced. I happen to know that the ones I mentioned aren't among them.


I'm not sure what your getting at with that remark about defconservers? Please explain.


There was no offense intended. I was just saying that those unlicensed provider examples aren't unlicensed because they are any less of a provider. Since a number of people refer to you and your company in this thread as an authority on the subject because you're an established (and licensed) host, I was simply saying those other examples I mentioned are equally big, professional and established -- yet unlicensed.

The point here is to preempt the argument that Company A is licensed because they're better in some way than Company B. Using third party hosts as examples, I am attempting to establish that Ventrilo licensing is at best arbitrary.

Some of the companies you've listed, abynormal1, aren't what I would consider "professional" companies. Some you've listed continually badmouth Flagship on their forums (and have done so for quite awhile). I can't think of a more unprofessional way to act.

I can certainly understand Flagship not licensing datacenters for their product. Datacenters with "Ranked" licenses for Battlefield have hurt the market significantly. Battlefield is not my market, but friends I have in that market were none too happy with i365 having Ranked licenses. There is no way to protect that status when any random renter can run their own Ranked servers. Control, competency and professionalism are things that vendors should look for in distributors.

Some of the companies you've listed, abynormal1, aren't what I would consider "professional" companies. Some you've listed continually badmouth Flagship on their forums (and have done so for quite awhile). I can't think of a more unprofessional way to act.

I can certainly understand Flagship not licensing datacenters for their product. Datacenters with "Ranked" licenses for Battlefield have hurt the market significantly. Battlefield is not my market, but friends I have in that market were none too happy with i365 having Ranked licenses. There is no way to protect that status when any random renter can run their own Ranked servers. Control, competency and professionalism are things that vendors should look for in distributors.

Ok, so Flagship has been flamed by lots of people, but rightfully so. Their licensing is extremely odd, and so Brian leaves his company wide open to those flames. Of course it's his choice who to license. Who knows what arbitrary method he uses to choose who he licenses and who he completely ignores, but it certainly isn't the things he lists on the license page. There are numerous companies who despite every effort and the best credentials have been denied a license.

The minimum requirements are:



You must have a legitimate business license in your state, country or jurisdiction. Please be prepared to provide proof when requested.
You agree to a 1000 slot minimum. Slot counts greater then 1000 are billed at the per slot rate for the total number of slots hosted. Slot counts below 1000 are billed at the per slot rate with the required minimum of 1000 slots.
Licensee's slot counts are expected to grow on a regular basis.



The extra unpublished and arbitrary requirements are anybody's guess.

Brian should also publish what the requirements are to get an actual response to an email about licensing. I know it's not a time issue -- I posted a thread on the forums requesting contact and they took the time to delete the thread :)

I can certainly understand Flagship not licensing datacenters for their product. Datacenters with "Ranked" licenses for Battlefield have hurt the market significantly. Battlefield is not my market, but friends I have in that market were none too happy with i365 having Ranked licenses. There is no way to protect that status when any random renter can run their own Ranked servers. Control, competency and professionalism are things that vendors should look for in distributors.


I agree 100% and personally don't understand the concept behind EA's decision to let select datacenters resell ranked servers. This move has turned that market into a joke and completely ruined it.

I know from my own experience in ecommerce with fortune 500 companies, a lot of times your margins are much lower with the larger companies you deal with and the burden on your infrastructure can be much higher in order to support them.

So honestly for most small companies its not worth taking on a large organization since there are real costs involved, and if you do, you only take on a limited number per year.

The other concern with Ventrilo is the owner needs to make sure not to add so many licensees that the market is flooded resulting in poor service, low profits, low demand across the board, or instability for existing licensees.

So ideally it is in his best interest to take in the smaller more profitable voice hosts and gradually grow the business.


I do however agree that ignoring business correspondance of any sort is reprehensible, something thats becoming all too common these days.

I know from my own experience in ecommerce with fortune 500 companies, a lot of times your margins are much lower with the larger companies you deal with and the burden on your infrastructure can be much higher in order to support them.

So honestly for most small companies its not worth taking on a large organization since there are real costs involved, and if you do, you only take on a limited number per year.

My understanding is that Flagship's margins are $0.10/slot across the board regardless of the licensee. I also understand that because of the simplicity of the program, the ease of licensing 10,000 or 10,000,000 slots are basically the same. So, that point doesn't really mesh with this issue.


The other concern with Ventrilo is the owner needs to make sure not to add so many licensees that the market is flooded resulting in poor service, low profits, low demand across the board, or instability for existing licensees.

So ideally it is in his best interest to take in the smaller more profitable voice hosts and gradually grow the business.


Well, as I've tried to say numerous times, Ventrilo is not just shutting out small, incidental and low-quality hosts. They are also shutting out larger, established and professional hosts.

Your two points here are basically saying 1) Ventrilo is justified in not licensing large hosts, because they are low margin and high maintenance (not true) and 2) Ventrilo is justified in not licensing small hosts because they are poor quality and low profit.

So, if they shouldn't license large or small hosts, who's left?


I do however agree that ignoring business correspondance of any sort is reprehensible, something thats becoming all too common these days.

And this is the most important point I'm making. I'm dissapointed if Brian won't license us. So what, pass me a tissue. What's unsettling is the odd decision to imply you are licensing companies and then totally ignore requests for licensing. If you're going to turn someone down, turn them down. Don't make them email you every day for a year and never get a response.

In sales, when somebody ignores your e-mails it pretty much means no. Unprofessional? Yes but there are a lot of possibilities - I don't think he's trying to be rude. In all likelihood Bryan Knapp could be running Ventrilo while having a full time job and no time to devote to the project.

Ventrilo may get bought out, or has already been absorbed into the corporate machine slated for distribution to big corporations willing to shell out lots of money - I did some research on Flagship Industries referenced on the bottom of the Ventrilo website and it lists some holding company in Canada.

So no, I don't think they're interested in selling to us little people.

Why does he need to work full time? He makes a killing off of FlagShip

Lets assume there are 300,000 total Ventrilo slots (probably much much more than that). He'd be making $30,000 a month in licensing fees. Considering that he probably employs nobody and has virtually no expenses (I mean, look at their web site - it was designed for free by someone who took pity on their previous design) it's got to be all profit. Now that's a business model!

I am not going to get into details, but I have been rejected for the past 6 months. I run a business right now of importing goods from overseas, and selling them to vendors across the Midwest. I own about 155,000gbs of bandwidth a month that I received at such a low cost I couldn't deny the offer.

I was planning on selling well over 500,000 ventrilo slots, and opening centers in California, Arizona, Texas, Illinois, Florida, Kentucky, New York, as well as centers based in South America and Europe.

After doing all the math I figured that FlagShip would be making at least 25,000 a month from me alone! I also figured I could make at least 55,000 a month all by myself. Yes, I was going to go Wal-Mart and sell 50 slots for only 8.99.

I am guessing I was turned down because I was to smart, and had to much experience in the marketing field and was going to take over the entire industry or he owns his own business.

Personally, I don't care. I decided to rent out my bandwidth for a decent profit... Ventrilo will be dead soon, as the next wave of voicecomms will NOT have a perslot/pricing method, and will only charge for license.

In conclusion, if I cannot get licensed, I highly doubt anyone else is... unless this idiot, "Mr.Knapp" decides to change his ways and make some real green.

Keith are you basically saying... because they won't license you Ventrilo will soon die off?

500,000 slots is a pretty big goal for a Ventrilo business. Good luck on finding that many people to rent voice servers from you.

But I agree that Ventrilo will be overtaken by new technology, they do not work well with companies, and therefore the companies who will not get licenses will be promoting other means of voice communication taking away from the Ventrilo base.

In conclusion, if I cannot get licensed, I highly doubt anyone else is... unless this idiot, "Mr.Knapp" decides to change his ways and make some real green.


And this is exactly why you will probably never get a license. Not everyone does things for the money..

I do admire your lofty goals though, I believe everyone that starts a hosting company envisions taking over the world with their product. I wish you luck with that.

And this is exactly why you will probably never get a license. Not everyone does things for the money..

I do admire your lofty goals though, I believe everyone that starts a hosting company envisions taking over the world with their product. I wish you luck with that.

Agreed that he has a crappy attitude about this. However, you're implying that Flagship is not for profit. Obviously you know that's not true, so why imply that it is?

Touche. Whats the definition of a business? A profit is involved to be a business, if not, you do it for hobby.

Sorry that's not what I was trying to imply, Of course a profit needs to be made but not everything is done for a profit. The dollar bill is not the end all goal for everyone. There is a difference.

The profit will be made whether there are 30 ventrilo hosts or 3000 ventrilo hosts. By only having a small amount of hosts each host has a bigger share of the market.

From Flagships perspective, there are less hosts that they have to bill, deal with late/non payments and no need for sales staff. Sounds like a pretty smart setup to keep costs down if you ask me.

I really should check up on my threads more often.

I think Flagship just doesn't want to upset any of their resellers that have been very loyal to them (so it seems). If they bring in more competition then pricing will start to go downhill and so will all their margins, then you'll start seeing some low quality hosting out there.

In a way it does make sense, but like everybody on here said, don't ignore the applications, respond back stating your position.

As for ranked servers, they keep telling me to apply next season as if that's going to make a difference. I'm not much in the BF market but it wouldn't hurt to add another product to the list.

When I said I have some extra bandwidth on my boxes that I could use for this, it didn't mean that my intentions were just to make an extra buck. My intentions were to have full control over the services that I offer to my customers and take full liability over it.

Reselling is working just fine for now. Of course it would be better to offer it on my own networks but that's fine.

Sorry that's not what I was trying to imply, Of course a profit needs to be made but not everything is done for a profit. The dollar bill is not the end all goal for everyone. There is a difference.

Business IS done for a profit. If you're not implying that Flagship is non profit, what are you implying. All you've done is laid down this generalization on Flagship's behalf "not everything is done for profit". What do you mean? Are they out to save the world through improved VOIP for gamers?

Rather than sticking up for Flagship's very unpopoular stance on licensing with basic generalizations and assumptions, why don't you take a stand with some solid reasoning?

First of all the only folks that find this stance "unpopular" are the ones that either got caught hosting illegally and were blacklisted or cannot get a license for other reasons. I personally don't see the big deal your making over this since you apparently are going through a reseller now and making a profit off the servers so it's not like your shut out of hosting the application?


Second point is not everyone does what they do for money. I assumed that was pretty self explanatory when it was said the first time. I don't have a clue what flagship holds sacred but I can tell you I personally didn't spend the last 4 years providing servers solely for the money. I didn't start this company as a means to cover the bills or pay the mortgage. This is my full time job yet I don't take a pay check. Why you ask? Because it was never intended as such. Maybe that's why after all this time I can still enjoy what I do..

So to answer your question; yes there are people in this world that do things for reasons other then money. Is flagship one of those people? I don't know. You will need to ask him that question.


I hope this explains what you were wondering about.



Thanks!

First of all the only folks that find this stance "unpopular" are the ones that either got caught hosting illegally and were blacklisted or cannot get a license for other reasons.


Wrong. I would venture a guess that none of the posters in this thread that share my criticism of Flagship's licensing process are hosting illegally or blacklisted. It's an unpopoular policy because it affects many hosts negatively.


I personally don't see the big deal your making over this since you apparently are going through a reseller now and making a profit off the servers so it's not like your shut out of hosting the application?

You don't see the big deal, because apparently your company isn't affected by the neagtive aspects of the policy, which are: No control over server quality, control panel, locations, can't bring "synergy" with other network usages (e.g. game servers, web hosting), etc. We are shut out of hosting the application. We're not shut out of reselling the hosted application, but we are shut out of hosting it.

It's like if people were no longer able to host cs servers without a license, and going through a reseller was the only option. Many hosts would be unhappy to not be able to provide a superior network on superior hardware with superior value added services.


Second point is not everyone does what they do for money. I assumed that was pretty self explanatory when it was said the first time. I don't have a clue what flagship holds sacred but I can tell you I personally didn't spend the last 4 years providing servers solely for the money. I didn't start this company as a means to cover the bills or pay the mortgage. This is my full time job yet I don't take a pay check. Why you ask? Because it was never intended as such. Maybe that's why after all this time I can still enjoy what I do..

So to answer your question; yes there are people in this world that do things for reasons other then money. Is flagship one of those people? I don't know. You will need to ask him that question.


So how does the fact that Flagship may get pleasure in providing a VOIP application in addition to the monetary benefits have any relevence to this thread? Most people enjoy some or all the aspects to their work.

You are a pretty subjective source to ask about the Flagship licensing policy, considering you are licensed (aren't you?). So, you understandably are taking their position on the issue, but when weighing in on the issue of dissatisfaction with the licensing policy, I would suggest you consider full disclosure.

Finally, tone is hard to read in writing, so let me clear that there is no offense intended here. Just sharing my pov.

I work for a company who, among other hosting service sites, runs one of (if not THE) biggest "resellers" of Ventrilo Servers in existence. We probably have resold more slots than 95% of the licensees.

Needless to say, we've tried every angle we can think of to contact Ventrilo about licensing. We're a large, established, respected company yet it's hard to even get a response from Flagship.

The most frustrating thing I must say is not the fact that we're not licensed, that's Brian's prerogative. The frustrating part of it is being ignored. I'd at least appreciate response from Brian telling us that he's not going to license us because he doesn't like us, or whatever other reason. Instead, there is no reply.

So, to sum up, I'd put asking for a license from Ventrilo in the same category as requesting placement in DMOZ. It's highly frustrating!

I'm curious who it is you work for? If you are really that big maybe we can help by spreading the word, even if you are a reseller.

I'd also like to hear who "Keith_stevens" is. Sounds like he has a hell of a network that me and others could take advantage of (leased hw and bandwidth).

I'm sure you understand why I prefer to stay anonymous and keep my employer's name and reputation "out of it". All my views are completely mine, personal and not necessarily those of my employer.

How did you intend to "spread the word"? I think issue is already pretty well known among other jilted hosts in this industry.

I'd also like to hear who "Keith_stevens" is.
And who are you?

There are other avenues outside of Ventrilo. TeamSpeak perhaps? What about coding your own VOIP application?

Hmm, that's like saying I could offer customers a Big Mac when they want a Whopper. Sure I could, but they will probably just go to where they can buy a Whopper.

Hmm, that's like saying I could offer customers a Big Mac when they want a Whopper. Sure I could, but they will probably just go to where they can buy a Whopper.

Well thought, unless someone opened a new system with something new that would take 'em away from Ventrilo, which I really am starting to believe someone will end up coding a totally new product with better quality. Honestly, if you revise Ventrilo, there isn't much impressive stuff or high 'tech'.

Where's the love people?

To be honest with you, why would Rich not support Ventrilo and their policy here? He's a reseller and if they were to change their policy his margins would go downhill and his addition of new clients would slow.

Rich, I don't do this for the money either. Doesn't mean it's not a good means of income, just not for me. I like it for the sake of selling and providing a good service and knowing that I still got the touch ;)

To be honest with you, why would Rich not support Ventrilo and their policy here? He's a reseller and if they were to change their policy his margins would go downhill and his addition of new clients would slow.

Exactly my point - Rich is a pretty subjective source for an opinion on the Ventrilo policy.

On the other hand, those of us who have not been granted a license are equally biased.

The bottom line is, I've never said Ventrilo hasn't got the right or justification to limit licenses. The worst part is how they handle license applications. They make applicants think there might be a shot at being accepted, string them along for months or years, and never ever ever give a concrete answer.

I know we would have appreciated a simple "no" in the first 6 months we waited for a license so that we could move forward with plan B.

Interestingly, Flagship contacted me regarding this thread. Brian didn't really say anything other than that he's seen the thread, so it left me wondering what the point of his email was.

On the bright side, at least we know he's aware of the discontent!

I'm sure he is aware of your discontent but please don't make it out like there's a large group over here waving flags and circling the wagons.. Ranting on a forum won't get you a license, If anything it will only make it more difficult.

Personally I would fire an employee if they went to a public forum and aired our internal issues but that's just me.

I'm sure he is aware of your discontent but please don't make it out like there's a large group over here waving flags and circling the wagons.. Ranting on a forum won't get you a license, If anything it will only make it more difficult.

Personally I would fire an employee if they went to a public forum and aired our internal issues but that's just me.

Why are you so sure he's aware Rich? Did you bring it up?

In fact, there is a large group of hosts that are discontent. I don't know what raising flags and circling wagons means, but I've talked with numerous hosts that are unhappy that they are unlicensed.

I wasn't trying to get a license by voicing my opinion in this thread that I didn't start. I am simply a voice in the crowd.

I'm glad I don't work for you then, Rich. My employer allows me to do what I wish with my personal time, as long as I don't bring their name into it.

On top of everything, you seem unduly in oposition to the topic of more liberal licensing. Could it be that you're happy to be part of the small group of capable licensees and glad for it to stay that way?

Yes, That is correct. I am very happy about the way ventrilo chose to deal with the license issue. If you remember correctly the more liberal policy didn't fly too well when it was in place..


I really doubt anything is going to change with the licensing policy. It wouldn't make sense to change it from their standpoint in my opinion. The way it works now they only have to deal with a certain amount of companies they can trust and can be assured the money will be there every month like always. Why would they want to deal with a zillion customers and "hope" they don't go out of business before the check clears?

The bottom line is; If you had a choice and made the same amount of $$ from it would you choose to deal with a few dozen customers or a few hundred?

Flagship simply puts the burden on the resellers to collect the fees from providers who want to sell the product but don't have a license, Either way they get paid the same because whether the money comes from you or a reseller it ends up in their pocket. At least this way they can sleep better at night. They would have to be brain damaged to change anything..

Rich - we're actually in agreement. Brian's attitude on limiting the number of licensees is perfectly reasonable, and I would probably do the same thing. I guess my "rant" in this thread, if I had one, could be summed up as:

When a license application arrives at Flagship, tell the applicant the application is denied.

I think if you dig around, you'll see that others are also somewhat put off by the poor communication from Flagship. I've read stories from people who email weekly into the black hole known as license@ventrilo.com.

P.S. That's a lot of posts dude!

I didnt read this whole thread, But yeah..l I know licenses are near impossible to obtain. I have a reseller from www.makeavoice.com (http://www.makeavoice.com) - They have the best pricing on resellers i have ever seen.

is makeavoice still your provider?

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=600057

According to their site they only offer Teamspeak.

There is another issue that I haven't seen mentioned in my skimming of this thread. There is obviously alot of debate about how Flagship handles reseller licensing but there is a whole other demographic that they dont just handle questionably, they seem to ignore completely (unless I am missing something).

What about people who have their own bandwidth and would like to host their own personal ventrilo with more than 8, but ALOT less then 1000 slots. I personally have 1.5mbps of upstream bandwidth (more than enough for at least a 15-20 slot server) and a whole slew of 24/7 *nix boxes in my house so while I'd be perfectly willing to pay a reasonable license fee for a single server license that I would host myself and have complete control over, I'm certainly not going to pay a 3rd party for their bandwidth and cpu time.

I realize my situation isn't all that common but I'm sure there are others like me and the limitations on the free version of ventrilo server are just silly (hard coded listening port?!)

If, as some people have argued, the current licensing system isn't just a get rich quick play by the folks at Flagship then shouldn't I (the technically savvy gamer with bandwidth to spare) have some realistic self hosting options?

This I believe is discussed on the ventrilo website.


If you only require a 15-20 slot server then i would suggest finding a decent reseller. There is very little to have complete control over and I can guarantee most if not all the resellers on the list have much more stable machines/network then a home connection.

Personally I can tell you the average uptime on our voice hosting machines exceeds 2 years and I would guess other professional hosters can boast the same.

This I believe is discussed on the ventrilo website.


If you only require a 15-20 slot server then i would suggest finding a decent reseller. There is very little to have complete control over and I can guarantee most if not all the resellers on the list have much more stable machines/network then a home connection.

Personally I can tell you the average uptime on our voice hosting machines exceeds 2 years and I would guess other professional hosters can boast the same.

I have no doubt that a reseller would run a more reliable server than I could and that they would give me control over anything I needed to manage the server but that is not the point. For me its a matter of principal. Why should I hire a landscaper when I own my own lawnmower and enjoy working outside?

This isn't a debate, I'm not asking why I should pay someone else to run a server for me. I'm explaining why I will be using another self hosted voice solution despite the fact that ventrilo is functionally the best imo. In the (probably vain) hopes that the powers that be will read this and realized that they may have made a mistake in overlooking people like myself.

Well, Flagship had a problem getting licensees to pay for their license in the past, when it was available for everyone. So, they locked everything down and only license a very few "bill payers" now. That's why you have to pay someone else to do it instead of doing it yourself.

Well, Flagship had a problem getting licensees to pay for their license in the past, when it was available for everyone. So, they locked everything down and only license a very few "bill payers" now. That's why you have to pay someone else to do it instead of doing it yourself.

I'll admit I'm not very informed about their prior licensing system, did they ever offer lower port count, single server licenses? Because it seems to me like even if they loosened up on the single server options they'd have nothing to lose even if some people were refusing to pay for that.

For example leave the single instance per box and hard coded listen port limitations but raise the user limit to something like 40 or 50 as that would cover most any online game as far as team/group size and charge maybe a $25 one time fee. This would give end users better options for self hosting without threatening reseller business. Even if only 25 out of every 100 self hosters actually paid thats still an extra $625 that they aren't getting now because of their apparent disinterest in the self hosting demographic.

You assume that "self hosters" will usually not buy a Ventrilo server if they are not allowed to host it themselves. That may be true for you, but I can tell you that most people that want to use Ventrilo will buy the server rather than use a different VOIP service.

I'll admit I'm not very informed about their prior licensing system, did they ever offer lower port count, single server licenses? Because it seems to me like even if they loosened up on the single server options they'd have nothing to lose even if some people were refusing to pay for that.

For example leave the single instance per box and hard coded listen port limitations but raise the user limit to something like 40 or 50 as that would cover most any online game as far as team/group size and charge maybe a $25 one time fee. This would give end users better options for self hosting without threatening reseller business. Even if only 25 out of every 100 self hosters actually paid thats still an extra $625 that they aren't getting now because of their apparent disinterest in the self hosting demographic.

I think you miss the point. They made the software, they can do whatever they want with it. Given the choice of more relaxed licensing with the mere possibility of some extra cash each month (if those other license carriers actually pay) or maintaing a strict list of known-good hosts that pay on time for thousands upon thousands of hosts...I'd take the latter. I wouldn't want the headaches from every muppet wanting help hosting my product that may or may not even help support the product itself through donations/license fees. Professional companies typically do not cry to him about setup issues, they already know what they are doing (of course, a few hosts do cry to them especially about companies taking their business w/ lower prices, but that is besides the point).

I think you miss the point. They made the software, they can do whatever they want with it. Given the choice of more relaxed licensing with the mere possibility of some extra cash each month (if those other license carriers actually pay) or maintaing a strict list of known-good hosts that pay on time for thousands upon thousands of hosts...I'd take the latter. I wouldn't want the headaches from every muppet wanting help hosting my product that may or may not even help support the product itself through donations/license fees. Professional companies typically do not cry to him about setup issues, they already know what they are doing (of course, a few hosts do cry to them especially about companies taking their business w/ lower prices, but that is besides the point).


You seem to be suggesting that providing some options to self hosters and catering to resellers are mutually exclusive. I don't see why this would have to be the case, my point was that without changing the way they deal with resellers, they could easily offer smaller licenses to single server customers without providing technical support on the low end license (from what I have read here the people at Flagship are good at ignoring emails anyway).

As I've said, I'm sure the reseller customers and single server customers could easily be segregated enough that the single user license holders would have absolutely no effect on the resellers business. Other than the fact that the single user licnesees obviously wouldn't be buying from the resellers themselves. However there would still be plenty of people out there who don't want to deal with hosting themselves for the resellers to cater to

As for the fact that it their software and they can license it as they see fit, thats very true and the point is certainly not lost on me. If they want to tell me that I can either use their product on terms I don't agree with or find another product to use, then I will use someone else's product.

That however, wont change the fact that functionally I believe ventrilo is a superior voice system and if the option was available to use it on terms I found more agreeable (such as a one time fee rather than a monthly hosting bill) then I would gladly do so

What is Ventrilo?

Try Google?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ventrilo&btnG=Google+Search

For example leave the single instance per box and hard coded listen port limitations but raise the user limit to something like 40 or 50 as that would cover most any online game as far as team/group size and charge maybe a $25 one time fee. This would give end users better options for self hosting without threatening reseller business. Even if only 25 out of every 100 self hosters actually paid thats still an extra $625 that they aren't getting now because of their apparent disinterest in the self hosting demographic.


I don't think anyone including myself is worried about self hosters taking business away. I believe as Joe mentioned it comes down to the business model ventrilo wishes to employ. As it stands now they deal exclusively with a few dozen resellers and don't have to deal with alot of support or worry about payment being there. It's a win-win situation and one that most companies would love to find themselves in.

To open it up to self hosters you would most likely need to hire additional staff for support and different things such as billing, accounts etc. In my opinion the benefits just aren't there.

I think a very key reason for the license requirements (as they are now) is that Flagship has legal recourse if a licensee fails to pay for what was used. They require an incorporated entity which can be served legally from filing documentation. If some random person has a license, it is much more difficult to chase them down. IMO, the potential extra profit isn't worth any of that hassle.

I think a very key reason for the license requirements (as they are now) is that Flagship has legal recourse if a licensee fails to pay for what was used. They require an incorporated entity which can be served legally from filing documentation. If some random person has a license, it is much more difficult to chase them down. IMO, the potential extra profit isn't worth any of that hassle.

I cant think of a scenario where they would have to "chase down" someone who paid them a one time fee for a single server license

If I sell a 20 slot server I don't have the option of paying a one time fee..

If I sell a 20 slot server I don't have the option of paying a one time fee..


Thats because you would charge your customer monthly for the use of the 20 slot server

And what would you consider a "fair" price for this single-server (single charge) license?

And what would you consider a "fair" price for this single-server (single charge) license?

Only Flagship could have the final say in whats "fair", I can say though that I personally would be willing to pay around $35-$40US for a 50 port single server licnese that I would never make a penny off of myself. And this would be generous on my part since Teamspeak lets you use up to 1000 ports and multiple instances for free as long as you dont sell servers.

I'm not sure if Flagship has a port limit built in, so now Brian would have to code in something just for $35-$40? That's not going to happen. As it stands now, he has to do almost NO work. The billing is automated and he has trusted companies that pay him the day they are billed (HiDef pays within the hour of bill receipt). I think you are deluding yourself. If TeamSpeak allows 1000 ports, use it.

I'm not sure if Flagship has a port limit built in, so now Brian would have to code in something just for $35-$40? That's not going to happen. As it stands now, he has to do almost NO work. The billing is automated and he has trusted companies that pay him the day they are billed (HiDef pays within the hour of bill receipt). I think you are deluding yourself. If TeamSpeak allows 1000 ports, use it.

I assure you there is no delusion involved, I never said I expected the changes I've proposed to actually take place. In fact I'm relatively certain they wont. I have already set up a teamspeak server which I will be using untill A: Flagship changes its tune, B: Indefinetly or C: A better voice solution comes along with more reasonable licensing (maybe even something open source). B or C obviously being the most likely.

Sadly I dont see this conversation going any farther, as far as I can tell everyone who has responded to me is involved in reselling ventrilo themselves and therefor seems to have difficulty putting themselves in my position. You have all made your points (effectively enough I might add) in an attempt to prove me "wrong" but you fail to realize I cant be "wrong" in this case because all I have done here is stated a belief that Flagship could have a more versatile licensing system if they chose to do so.


-edit-

As far as ventrilo having a port limit, the free version has an 8 port limit hard coded in so I would assume changing it to a hard 40 port limit would simply be a matter of changing a few lines of code. Thats just speculation though.

all I have done here is stated a belief that Flagship could have a more versatile licensing system if they chose to do so.

I believe what you stated is that they should have a licensing system that fits your particular need. What you are apparently failing to realize is that it just doesn't make business sense to do that. You'll get no argument from me about how great it would be for Flagship changing their licensing scheme, but your idea just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.

Why should Flagship sell single server licenses? If you understand the industry, it just doesn't make sense.

I cant be "wrong" in this case

This is why the discussion is over. You can't be wrong.

I'm not sure if Flagship has a port limit built in, so now Brian would have to code in something just for $35-$40? That's not going to happen.

That's like saying the people who make TS do it for free because they allow others to run it for personal usage for free.

I don't think the single server license idea will ever be given any serious thought since the only reason to have a license like that is so you can host your own server.. In my opinion that's not a good enough reason. That's what professional licensed hosters provide.

At least some of the companies that get turned down for a pro license have a grievance to complain about. Your talking about being inconvenienced with not having the ability to host your own server.. To be brutally honest with you if you had a clue as to the amount of money that changes hands every month you could have 1000 people lined up for the license your talking about and it still wouldn't be worth 5 seconds consideration so let's give it a rest, It's nothing that will happen and talking about it does zero good.

Not sure if this is the most appropriate forum to post this thread in (if not then Mod please move it) but I've been emailing Ventrilo like there's no tomorrow trying to get a license but they never seem to reply. Its been 6 months now. I'm going through a reseller right now but I have a lot of excess bandwidth on all my boxes that I can use up for ventrilo.

My question is does anybody out there have their phone number or another way of contacting them about licensing?

If not, anybody know a provider that will just rent out the license on a per slot basis for me (of course I'd pay a bit of a premium).

Thanks guys.

Yazan.

Ventrilo took 3 weeks to respond to me with a simple "k, were going to look at u" (yes thats a direct quote, not even a name).

This is exactly my point in this thread. Flagship needs to upgrade their communication from beta.

They litterally said "k" and "u"? That worries me.

They litterally said "k" and "u"? That worries me.

I'm amazed at how people can put down someone else while misspelling something like "literally". If Flagship were a producer of cat products, I might find humor in the misspelling though. ;)

I'd be surprised if this was the case. I've exchanged dozens of emails with flagship and all have been professional. Certainly nothing like what you describe.

Well, they did email us to tell us they had seen the posts by "abbynormal1". That was a little odd.

Well, they did email us to tell us they had seen the posts by "abbynormal1". That was a little odd.

I was referring to the post above yours talking about getting an email back with bad spelling/grammer.

I'm amazed at how people can put down someone else while misspelling something like "literally". If Flagship were a producer of cat products, I might find humor in the misspelling though. ;)

Meow?!?!!?!!?!?!

But really...
I'd like to talk to the owner himself for a little bit just see what it's like having thousands of dollars pour in for a great application like Ventrilo

Hopefully Teamspeak 3 will be better than Vent, on the dev blog they have said that TS3 is faster than TS2 at processing

If you are a reseller of vent already YOUR NOT GOING TO GET A LICENSE. That would upset the company your buying from.

Jordan, do you have any evidence to support your theory, or are you making an assumption?

I've thought that perhaps Flagship is attempting to protect their resellers by limiting any future licenses, but there's logical problems to that business plan. Plus, it's anti-competitive.

Every company I know that have gotten a license did so without being a reseller. Infact the best way I can tell is to just resell team speak, gain a market share there. Vent guys will say - oh heres a chance to pick up further market share without upsetting any of our current resellers.

So you're making an assumption. If only it were as simple as that.

If you went to vent with 10-50k team speak slots sold, had been in business well over a year, and didnt offer vent. I HIGHLY doubt any business man wouldn't give that person a license.

No, im sorry, you have a huge market share of my competition and don't sell my service. I don't think I want you to sell my service.

This is a dead topic. Let it die.

This is a dead topic. Let it die.

Ha, you'd love it to die, wouldn't you. No, it's still highly relevent Rich.

If you went to vent with 10-50k team speak slots sold, had been in business well over a year, and didnt offer vent. I HIGHLY doubt any business man wouldn't give that person a license.

No, im sorry, you have a huge market share of my competition and don't sell my service. I don't think I want you to sell my service.

Jordan, you would think this was the case. Interestingly, it's not.

Kicking and Screaming here isn't going to help things.
Hes going to do what hes going to do.
If he decides to be professional and return emails.

Who's kicking and screaming? I'm enjoying the meaningful discussion.

How is it a meaningful discussion.
Its a dead topic, that unless the owner of Flagship decides to give us licenses, then we are SOL.
He could care less about what we say.
So why keep it going? Its a useless thing to debate.

There's no meaningful conversation here only speculation and what-if's by people that don't have any idea what their talking about.

How is it a meaningful discussion.
Its a dead topic, that unless the owner of Flagship decides to give us licenses, then we are SOL.
He could care less about what we say.
So why keep it going? Its a useless thing to debate.

If it's dead, then why are you here posting? The topic isn't about talking to Flagship, it's about talking to one another about Ventrilo licensing. It's a meaningful conversation and it's not a debate.

There's no meaningful conversation here
What's your definition of meaningful? It is meaningful enough to cause Flagship to email me about the thread.

only speculation and what-if's

There's nothing wrong with speculation and what-if's, although there's plenty of fact in this thread.

by people that don't have any idea what their talking about.

You may think of yourself as the authority on everything, but taking digs at others that you certainly know nothing about isn't very professional.

I'm 100% certain you won't ever get a license to host ventrilo and I know more about you then you think so my prior remark stands.

I'm 100% certain you won't ever get a license to host ventrilo and I know more about you then you think so my prior remark stands.

I'm 100% certain I won't either, since I've never applied. If you do know anything about me, then you've invested way too much time finding that out. Why? lol, anyway, your remark was that the people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about, which in my case is incorrect.

I'm 100% certain I won't either, since I've never applied. If you do know anything about me, then you've invested way too much time finding that out. Why? lol, anyway, your remark was that the people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about, which in my case is incorrect.

So you've never applied for a license?

WTF are you here crying about it then? :eek:

I work for a company who, among other hosting service sites, runs one of (if not THE) biggest "resellers" of Ventrilo Servers in existence. We probably have resold more slots than 95% of the licensees.

Needless to say, we've tried every angle we can think of to contact Ventrilo about licensing. We're a large, established, respected company yet it's hard to even get a response from Flagship.

The most frustrating thing I must say is not the fact that we're not licensed, that's Brian's prerogative. The frustrating part of it is being ignored. I'd at least appreciate response from Brian telling us that he's not going to license us because he doesn't like us, or whatever other reason. Instead, there is no reply.

So, to sum up, I'd put asking for a license from Ventrilo in the same category as requesting placement in DMOZ. It's highly frustrating!

Oops, now you look a bit dumb. :rolleyes:

Oops, now you look a bit dumb. :rolleyes:

Hah, good research. So how does the fact that the company I work for applied for a license make me look dumb?

So you've never applied for a license?

WTF are you here crying about it then? :eek:

Bro, where's the hostility coming from? Why are you and Defcon Rich so up in arms about the prospect of others discussing Flagship licensing? Allow me to make a recommendation for both of your mental well being - unsubscribe to this thread. If you don't want to talk about it, don't read the thread.

I'm just pointing out there is no benefit for flagship to give anyone who is reselling vent slots a license. It simply gives them one more person to support, upsets a reseller, and one more person who has to pay their bill.

Hah, good research. So how does the fact that the company I work for applied for a license make me look dumb?

Your first mistake is thinking you can fool anyone with your "I only work for someone" routine.. Do you really think anyone buys that?


I have no issue about discussing this or anything else. I do have a problem with the constant whining about not getting your way.. It's annoying. If you don't like it then go build your own voice prog..

Just stop replying, and leave it alone.

Your first mistake is thinking you can fool anyone with your "I only work for someone" routine.. Do you really think anyone buys that?

I don't care.


I have no issue about discussing this or anything else. I do have a problem with the constant whining about not getting your way.. It's annoying. If you don't like it then go build your own voice prog..

You obviously do have a problem. Your free to unsubscribe from this thread - you don't have to read the "constant whining". I don't consider discussing the issue whining, though.

You've apparently failed to comprehend what my posts have said. I'm not going to try to correct you, however you're free to go back and read what I've posted. On the other hand, I'd be happy for you to rid yourself of this thread which is apparently causing you some discomfort.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, Jordan mentioned a pretty logical scenario which is that Flagship may only grant licenses to hosts that are not already resellers. Has anyone been licensed in the last 12 months after already reselling Ventrilo through one of the major resellers (e.g. Hurricane Host, Nation Voice)?

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, Jordan mentioned a pretty logical scenario which is that Flagship may only grant licenses to hosts that are not already resellers. Has anyone been licensed in the last 12 months after already reselling Ventrilo through one of the major resellers (e.g. Hurricane Host, Nation Voice)?

Are you saying that we will not be able to get a license from Ventrilo when we get our own dedicated servers.

Thats honestly my guess bud.

What business reason would Flagship have to give you guys a license? Im not trying to be rude, but common sense dictates you have to bring something to them to be able to get a license.

Hes right, if you were to get your own license you would leave your current reseller = less money for the reseller = less money for ventrilo/flagship

Are you saying that we will not be able to get a license from Ventrilo when we get our own dedicated servers.

I would assume if you were to get a license you would own your hardware and not rent it. Ventrilo looks for very established companies. If you don't own your hardware you have no assets so why would they give you a license ;)

Also to for the previous posts, I would respect laws considering he ALREADY has a license and he knows what hes talking about, hes just trying to help.

Whether you rent a server from a reseller or a license host ventrilo still collects the same amount of $$.. The end result is the same so that logic doesn't make any sense.

RS|John, Neither of the previous posters have licenses to sell ventrilo. They are simply speculating.

It's not uncommon for a product maker to limit "distributors" and have most retailers be "resellers" of their product. I actually think this is a good strategy. It is speculation though about whether or not Flagship is protecting their major resellers by limiting new licensees.

GELucas, I would speculate that no matter how many slots you sell (or how much hardware you own) you won't be licensed, judging by my experiences. I admit that I don't have much to go on for that speculation, as the feedback I've had from Flagship is limited at best.

I believe ThePlanet doesn't have a license, and they meet all the requirements ont he Ventrilo license FAQ, so who knows what the real requirements are. Best bet imo is to send an email and cross your fingers.

HDG-Laws has a ventrilo license.

This was very hard to word so read this first

Company A: host selling the reseller
Company B: Company with the reseller from Company A

Eitherway it would be unfair for to company A because if ventrilo did license them they would be stealing company B away from company A. This would raise fits and company a would complain to ventrilo. So since you said before ventrilo makes the same money eitherway, why would they steal business from company a?

HDG-Laws has a ventrilo license.

This was very hard to word so read this first

Company A: host selling the reseller
Company B: Company with the reseller from Company A

Eitherway it would be unfair for to company A because if ventrilo did license them they would be stealing company B away from company A. This would raise fits and company a would complain to ventrilo. So since you said before ventrilo makes the same money eitherway, why would they steal business from company a?

If this question is directed at me, I agree with you. It makes perfect sense for them to leave the reseller's customers with the resellers.

Lets say you were a person with a vent license. You had a reseller with 500,000 slots. Your customer is paying you 100k/month (.20c/slot).

You have 100+ servers up to handle the load of this customer. Your committing to A TON of bandwidth because of this customer. Everyone is happy.

Flagship accepts their application and they go direct. You lose 1.2million/year in revenue. You now have 100+ boxes and 1gbit of BW going to waste.

These numbers are way off I'm sure.

****DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE ****
These opinions are based purely on COMMON SENSE and SPECULATION.

Lets say you were a person with a vent license. You had a reseller with 500,000 slots. Your customer is paying you 100k/month (.20c/slot).

You have 100+ servers up to handle the load of this customer. Your committing to A TON of bandwidth because of this customer. Everyone is happy.

Flagship accepts their application and they go direct. You lose 1.2million/year in revenue. You now have 100+ boxes and 1gbit of BW going to waste.

These numbers are way off I'm sure.

****DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE ****
These opinions are based purely on COMMON SENSE and SPECULATION.

So it seems like I am wasting my time? I was probably planning on doing this as a living, selling resellers myself, owning the hardware, giving people a stable job, providing REAL 24/7 support.

I guess I'm just wasting my time and when I get a few more 1,000 slots I should just sell everything and move on to something else?

You can still provide customer and billing support as a reseller. Most support issues are at a server config level anyway, so not owning and runing the hardware and bandwidth would be the key difference. Also the margin that you're losing as a reseller.

Why? You are not able to grow and provide stable jobs and provide 24/7 support without getting your own license? I wouldnt even start a business without knowing I could accomplish my goals with out depending on getting a license 2-3 years down the line. If your not making enough per slot to do the things you want to do, you need to re-evaultate your business plan. Why not stop competing on price and compete on support?

This is the thread that never ends...yes it goes on and on my friends...

Some people...started posting here not knowing what it was...

and they'll continue posting it forever just because...

This is the thread that never ends!

And goes on and on my friend..............

Why? You are not able to grow and provide stable jobs and provide 24/7 support without getting your own license? I wouldnt even start a business without knowing I could accomplish my goals with out depending on getting a license 2-3 years down the line. If your not making enough per slot to do the things you want to do, you need to re-evaultate your business plan. Why not stop competing on price and compete on support?

It was an example. And reselling/running your own license is pretty different. You cannot expand. Just keep providing the same lame support since if there is actually a real problem you cannot get it solved. And they don't inform you, so you don't inform your customers, etc. etc. etc.

HDG-Laws has a ventrilo license.

This was very hard to word so read this first

Company A: host selling the reseller
Company B: Company with the reseller from Company A

Eitherway it would be unfair for to company A because if ventrilo did license them they would be stealing company B away from company A. This would raise fits and company a would complain to ventrilo. So since you said before ventrilo makes the same money eitherway, why would they steal business from company a?

Lets say you were a person with a vent license. You had a reseller with 500,000 slots. Your customer is paying you 100k/month (.20c/slot).

You have 100+ servers up to handle the load of this customer. Your committing to A TON of bandwidth because of this customer. Everyone is happy.

Flagship accepts their application and they go direct. You lose 1.2million/year in revenue. You now have 100+ boxes and 1gbit of BW going to waste.

These numbers are way off I'm sure.

****DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE ****
These opinions are based purely on COMMON SENSE and SPECULATION.

Read those two posts and you will understand end it there. Ventrilo is not going to STEAL business from there current customers when it doesnt benefit ventrilo. THAT WOULD BE STUPID!!!

It was an example. And reselling/running your own license is pretty different. You cannot expand. Just keep providing the same lame support since if there is actually a real problem you cannot get it solved. And they don't inform you, so you don't inform your customers, etc. etc. etc.

If I were a reseller and the company I resold for did not tell me anything, I would make sure and go out and find another reseller program. Also, I would communicate back to those companies that I resell for, with any ideas I may have. It can be a nice 2 way street.

Also, IMHO you really do not have it that bad reselling. Us licensed companies have to worry about maintaining the servers, services and bandwidth. Keep that in mind as well if you are reselling.

Just my 2 cents. I figured I would add to the thread.

Jarrod

Reselling is much more convenient, it's just that there are many companies that already maintain a large number of data centers, big bandwidth commits and hundreds of servers and adding a service like Ventrilo to the infastructure is cheaper than paying the reseller prices. Plus, as a reseller large companies aren't able to innovate and improve services (control panel, added features, etc).

Sounds to me like there is room for improvement in the reselling industry. Those are all valid points.

Jarrod

Sounds to me like there is room for improvement in the reselling industry. Those are all valid points.

Jarrod

There is a lot of room, and we plan on filling up that space.

I think he meant there is a lot of room for people with vent licenses to improve and compete in the quality of reseller programs.

Greetings Everyone.

I was wondering if anyone has yet to get a License from Vent at this time, say over the past 6 months?

Quinntum