Hi.

I hired a designer to do a template for me. He designed my logo and biz cards/stationary and did a great job.

Since this guy did so well with my logo design, and gave me a great deal, I told him I'd like to have him design my website. He said he'd have the site done by the end of January.

After the 1st of January we met to discuss the website. When I explained the features I wanted the site to have, he said he couldn't do some of the things I needed, and that it would involve hiring a programmer.

I went home and found a programmer through a friend. Now I didn't need a whole website from the designer, just a template, and the programmer would take care of all the functions.

When I told the designer I found a programmer to take care of all the functions, he dropped his price by two thirds since he didn't have to construct the entire site, only a template. He asked if I needed the file in photoshop or html, and I said html. He said that was no problem, and he'd have it to me by the end of the week.

That was back around mid-January. Then, I learned my programmer is leaving for vacation on Feb. 24th and won't be back until sometime in April. No problem, I thought, we've got plenty of time.

Well, the week passed and I heard nothing from the designer. The following Monday I emailed him. On Tuesday, he emailed me back saying he was still working on it.

The next week he sent me a photoshop file and asked me how I liked it. I told him the design was great but that the programmer needs it in html. He said that wasn't a problem, but that all the programmers he's worked with have used photoshop files, and he thought I should send this photoshop file to my programmer and see what he thinks.

The programmer liked the template, but stated he wouldn't be able to keep it just the way it is if the template is in photoshop. He needs it in html. I told this to the designer, and he promised to deliver the html file by the end of the week. It didn't show up.

Now I was getting nervous. It was the end of January and I still didn't have a file to give the programmer. I didn't want to wait until sometime in April or later to get my site up. I really needed to get that file to the programmer. So, I called my designer on the phone and explained the situation to him. I had already emailed him the previous Friday, but he didn't respond. When I explained the situation over the phone, he said he'd have the template done, most likely, by the next day, which was Tuesday. Relieved, I hung up the phone.

Tuesday passed and no file showed up. Wednesday and Thursday passed and still no file. The follwing Monday I got an email. The designer said that converting the file to html was taking more work than he originally thought it would, and he hoped to have it to me that day. Again, the whole week went by with no further word from him.

This past Monday the designer contacted me again. He said he'd lost a few days last week because he was ill, that he was very sorry this was taking so long and he was going to try and finish it that day. Again, no file showed up that day or any other day this week.

Here we are, Friday, and still no word from the designer since Monday when he told me he'd been ill. I emailed him and told him the programmer is leaving on the 24th and won't be back for a couple of months, but I got no response to my email.

On the plus side, the designer does excellent work. On the minus side, he's very slow to complete projects and to my mind he isn't taking me or my business very seriously. Perhaps it is because he has bigger accounts and I'm just not that important to him. I don't know.

If the designer had needed an extra week to finish the template, that would have been ok. But, I feel like I've been repeatedly put off. If he had given me a special deal like he did with the logo, I would be more patient. But, that isn't the case. I'm paying his usual fee as far as I know, since I'm paying what he asked for, so I don't feel that my project should be any less important than anyone else's regardless of how much I'm paying or what my account is worth.

I am not sure how to handle this now. The programmer leaves a week from tomorrow, so there's no way he'll be able to get the work on the site done before he leaves.

Originally, my website was supposed to be completed by the end of January when the designer was doing the entire site. Then, the designer just had to do a template and the site should have been completed no later than mid-February. Now, it could be April or later before the site is done since the designer failed to get me the template in a timely manner.

What would you do? How do you think I should handle this? The time lag is costing me alot of business. I like the designer and he does quality work, but I'm very disappointed in his ability to deliver projects in a timely manner.

Your thoughts, input and advice would be very much appreciated. I'm very frustrated with the whole situation.

Thanks.

Kim

Get a copy of Dreamweaver, a good manual and get to work! :)

Frank,

You're very funny! I know nothing of programming or designing a website. I know just enough html to make a listing on ebay look nice. That's it. And I really don't have the time nor the inclination to learn website design/programming. I've got enough to do. If I had wanted to learn how to design and program a website, I would have gone into that business instead the one I'm in.

Besides, I downloaded the free trial version of Dreamweaver and tried reading the tutorial it came with. I didn't even understand the tutorial let alone the program. No, I know when something is beyond my capabilities. It would take me a long time to learn what I'd need to know to create my website, and well, I haven't got forever.

I emailed the designer for an update. I'm waiting to hear from him, but I have my doubts as to whether or not he'll respond.

Perhaps he is trying to get a higher price?
From my view, It seems that he is having much bigger projects in progress (so he will get more money completing other works) Or he wants you to pay more -- If so, why didn't he request?

Since it's a small job to a designer that he has to only convert the psd into html, he might be getting lazy because he is getting paid more on larger projects. So when you reduced the deal, he did not care anymore.

If you seriously need the html fast, promise him some extra cash maybe that will bring things on.

Good luck Kim. I am just a do-it-your-selfer at heart! Particularly for the reason you post about.

FXMarket: When I spoke to him a couple weeks ago he did say over the phone that this was taking longer than expected. I asked him then if he needed more money. His exact response was, "No, I'm going to try to avoid that. I know you're on a budget." So, you might be right. He may have put other clients ahead of me, but I don't think that's fair since I offered to pay him more.

I just got an email from the designer. He sent me the finished file in html. I emailed it to my programmer. Once the programmer confirms that it's what he needs, I'll send payment to the designer. The programmer was very specific in his instructions as to what he needed to have, and I forwarded those instructions to the designer. So, before I send payment to the designer I need to make sure those instructions were followed. Anyway, I'm just glad he finally sent me something. It's been six weeks since we first discussed the website!

Frank: Thanks. I'm mostly a do-it-yourselfer too. But, not this time. I know my limits. The thing is, my website address is all over my cards and letterhead. I can't even send my promo materials out until the site is done, and if I had to learn how to do it myself it would take a very long time, if I ever got it right. I think some people are more adept at building websites than others. I'm definitely in that "other" category!

Kim

Let us know how this turns out.... what is your site name?

I will, Frank. To be fair, the designer did do an awesome job with the template. After the programmer saw the photoshop file he emailed me and said how beautiful it was. He said he wouldn't be able to keep it exactly as it was and that's why he needed the html file....to keep the template "in all it's perfectness" as he put it.

I own a publishing company which produces booklets for businesses to use as client incentives and thank-yous. My business is called Up & At 'Em Publications, and the site address is www.upandatempublications.com

Of course, right now there is no website to see. Hopefully there will be one in a couple of weeks! I'd love to know what you think of the site!

Kim

Get the psd and pay to anyone to do the code... not sure how many you are paying to the designer, but the code shouldnt be more than 200US$.

I had exactly the same problem with www.globalwebseller.com... I hired them around 15 Novemenber, Im waiting to get my blog finished yet... but lesson learnt, cheap become expensive.

I agree with sergio, there are several sites that convert psd to XHTML/CSS templates. Or I am sure there are people on these forms that can do that for a fair price, with a quick turn around.

If only I'd have known about that BEFORE starting this process! But, the designer did deliver it today and the programmer said it's fine. Oh, and the designer didn't come cheap. Not at all.

I'd sure like to know what websites those are that convert the psd to XHTML/CSS.

At last :)

Post the final design when you have a chance ;)

Please show us what's the result, I'm quite curious now!

You can make always try slicing it yourself with photoshop and exporting it to image ready then exporting it again to a .html output..

If you're going to use image ready there's no reason to do anything in PS. just open it in image ready to begin with.

it's pretty straight forward on slicing with IR. I use it all the time. But it'll take a little getting use to. Just make sure your slices go all the way to each other. meaning no gaps.

But IR will also present the javascript and html code for you automatically. It does a pretty good job.

Any developer / programmer should be able to manipulate a photoshop file in my opinion - if they know anything about developing websites then they should know - If they dont i would suggest you get a different developer as their coding practice is probably the same (not very good).

Hope this helps

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

Hi everyone.

Here's an update....

After the programmer told me the file looked good and had everything he needed to work with, I emailed the designer and told him I'd be sending him payment on Monday. Well, today I got an email from the designer. He said "we went over budget" and that I now owe him an additional $300.00. He said the photoshop file was $500.00, which he initially quoted me, but that because of the extra programming he had to charge me another $300.00 for a total of $800.00. I was pretty shocked, especially since we had spoken by phone and he had said he was going to try not to charge me anything extra because he knew I was on a tight budget.

When I got the original quote from the designer, neither he nor I knew what the programmer would require for the file. I did tell the designer that the programmer wanted the file to be in HTML rather than photoshop before the designer did the work, and the designer said that would be fine. He then delivered a photoshop file and said he thought the programmer should use it. The programmer said he wasn't able to use the photoshop file, and that he needed HTML, so the designer then did the file in HTML. So, the designer did know he'd need to do the file in HTML, but the programmer required that all the buttons and color changes be part of the HTML file, which the designer didn't know he was going to have to do, so I guess that's why he's charging me extra.

I told the designer that I wish I would have known about the extra charge up front, but of course he didn't realize how much he was going to have to do with that file. He was supposed to have it done within a week. It took him four.

So, I was a bit upset at having to pay the extra charge as I think the designer should have told me when I spoke to him on the phone that the extra work was going to cost more. He knew at that point what he needed to do. I can't blame him for charging for his work and time, only for telling me so late. However, he did say that I can pay him the extra when I can. He's good about that.

I looked at the file and it's quite professional. It's going to be a very nice looking site.

Unrevisedhosting: The programmer was recommended to me by someone in my industry whose site he re-did. Since I've never used him I can't comment on his work, but I can say he's been very good at answering all my questions and giving me quotes up front for the work I need him to do. Also, he'll be leaving for vacation on Saturday, but he reassured me that his development team will be able to complete the work in his absence. He also said he'll be checking his email daily in case I have any questions, and that he'll be able to oversee my project while he's away. He really put my mind at ease. I'm hopeful everything will go well from here on with the site's development.

Charging $300 extra out of the blue combined with procrastination doesn't really seem professional, that's how clients are lost. The price should be fxed and talked over at the beginning.

The additional charge is perfectly justified if the designer is sticking to a reasonable time frame and communicates with you well when he's unable to do so, if the additional work he's doing is truly outside of the original agreed scope and he oks the additional charge with you before he does the work.

It sounds like at least 2/3 of those criteria were not met.

I would be very interested in seeing the quality of his coding work, to see whether he half-assed it because it was last-minute work, or whether he did a good job with that part...

lorem ipsum: Yes, the $300.00 extra charge did come out ot the blue and he did take three weeks longer than he told me he would. Normally, I'd be screaming but like I said, the programmer asked for some things that the designer didn't originally intend to do. Yes, he has lost this client. Had he told me on the phone, once he knew what was involved, that would be different. But he didn't. Instead, he said he was going to try to avoid charging me extra. And then he delivered the file and still didn't say anything about the extra charge. It wasn't until I emailed him to tell him I was going to send payment that he told me. I don't like doing business that way.

the pm: I could understand if the designer needed an extra week to complete the work, but he kept putting me off. As for the work he did, I can only tell you what I see, which is what the finished site will look like. I can't comment on coding because I don't know a thing about it. My programmer said it's fine, though. I trust him. He did some work for a friend of mine and she said everything at her site works beautifully, so he must know what he's doing.

I guess I can't complain too much. Even with the extra charge I got a much better deal than most of his clients, as far as I know. He has a package deal on his website. For $3,500 you get a logo, letterhead, cards, envelope and a website. I got all of that for $1,100. When I originally called him about doing my logo, he quoted me $1,200. I thanked him for his time and hung up. He later emailed me and said he could have an intern of his do the work for me, under his guidance, and he would only have to charge me $300.00. I grabbed it. He threw in the letterhead, cards and envelope for no extra charge. The logo was excellent. Everyone who has seen it has said how professional it looks, and I've passed it by some tough critics. So, it seemed only right to have him do my website too.

The logo did take a while to complete. It was something like two months. I didn't complain though, because I knew I was getting a very good deal. The least I would have paid anywhere else for a custom designed logo would have been $500.00 and that wouldn't have included anything else. But, the website was different. I had a definite timeline, and I just don't feel he handled things very well.

One thing that has stuck with me. Last time I met with him I was telling him about another possible stream of income for his business. He laughed and shook his head and said, "I don't need anymore money." Like he actually had more than he wanted. Maybe he's got all the business he wants, and certainly larger clients than me, and I'm just not that important to him. That's ok. I'll just find another designer/developer to do business with who will take my projects seriously.

My business is new. He knows that. I have no income from an outside job, nor from my business yet. He knows that too. So, for him to have charged me the extra money and not tell me until I was ready to send payment just doesn't seem right. He'll get his extra $300.00 from me, but that's all. I don't plan to do business with him again in the future.

Also you could try to use Macromedia Fireworks for the automatic slicing. Trial version will be enough to make this job. I guess this application works with PSD and other formats.

Serge

Thanks, Serge, but I'm don't even know what slicing is. The only knowledge I have is just a little bit of basic html that I learned to make an ebay listing look nice. Now, ebay no longer requires that since they have the wysiwyg editor, which means I will probably lose what little I learned. So, if it requires any technical knowlege, I'd need help, and maybe alot of help if it was intensive. That's why I hired a designer and programmer to do my site.

Did you guys have a contract? If the price was stated in the contract then all charges on top of the price agreed on in the contract is the responsibility of the designer.

snguyen: No, there was no contract this time nor the last time when he did my logo. When he offered to have his intern do the logo, we met face to face, all three of us. He asked about my business and then wanted to know what I was going to put the logo on. I told him I would need it for cards and letterhead. He turned to the intern and said, "Ok. We need some kick-*** cards and letterhead." I kept wondering when he was going to ask me for a down payment, but he never asked me for a cent. Not at that meeting, and not even after the work was completed and the files were given to me.

I wondered during the time the designer and intern were working on the logo and letterhead if there would be an extra charge for the cards and letthead, but the designer never mentioned it. After the work was done and I had the files I told him I'd be sending his payment of $300.00, and he gave me the address to send it to. So, he gave me a very good deal and didn't raise the price that time. There was no contract.

This time, again, there was no contract. Just our emails, and our verbal conversations over the phone and in a meeting regarding the website. Like I said, he originally told me $500.00. After that, he didn't mention price again, until after the work was done and I told him I would send him payment. That's when he hit me with the extra amount. It isn't that he charged me extra. I don't mind paying him the extra because he did have to do extra work on the template. It's just the way he handled it. He should have told me sooner, rather than when the file was delivered and I was ready to send payment. That's really what bothers me. Well, that and the fact that I don't think my business is all that important to him.

Ive been experiencing same situation, waiting after coder and then after designer - however my situation is bit different . Since i got low budget and people are doing it on the side of their real life job it was bound to stretch, which I have accepted and anticipated. Exept now that I am on the verge of launching and ive been told it should be ready in next day ... there doesnt seem to be no end - as its third time we have postponed the date and its gettting really frustruating for me....

all i can do is hope for the best....

JTGizmo: I feel for ya. I really do. Is this a coder and designer that you've met face to face, or someone you hired online? Sometimes that makes a difference.

My designer is only an hour from me. I liked that. We met face to face twice. I had a good feeling about him and I liked him instantly. He seemed to be just oozing creativity. But, no matter how you feel about a person and no matter how good of a job you think they will do, you can't predict whether they will get the job done on time or even if they will take you or your business seriously.

I keep wondering why my designer took me on as a client since he had so many higher paying clients with bigger projects for him to complete. The only thing I can figure is that he did it to be nice. The first time I spoke to him, I told him his prices were out of my ballpark because my company is new. He said, "Oh, I know what that's like." I've gone over it a million times in my head and I think he just wanted to help me. And he really did. I've got a top notch logo, letterhead, business cards, envelope, and now, once the programmer is done, I'll have a really great looking website that was custom made. My designer did it all for only $1,100. Normally, he would have charged $3,500 for all of that. So I can only figure he did it to help out a fellow human being, which is why I'm not really angry with him about the extra charge. I just think he should have told me sooner.

Still, in spite of the fantastic work he did and the great deal he gave me, I need to have someone who will take my projects seriously in the future and get them done in a timely manner, especially if I've got a deadline to meet. I'm just not confident my designer can do that for me. I know things come up....people get sick or something changes with the project that requires more time, and those things can't be helped. But, what about the rest of the time?

At least your people are staying in contact with you. If you haven't paid anything, that's good too. Keep me posted. I'm interested in how this progresses for you. I hope you get your site soon!

My site is now in the hands of my programmer. He came highly recommended to me by a friend, but he's in another country, so now I'm hoping he'll work faster than the designer did, or at least have better contact with me.

I have met the designer, face to face and the work he does is good, it just takes time and as you i didnt have much to afford, but the work done is greate, just slow. And they are doing a lot for much less than usual. and they both work in a diff country than im located in

However as with you spite the fantastic word I need deadlines to be met even stretched ones....

and in future I hope i can afford more money and with that i can pressure more as well I suppose....

Im really close to opening.....

as for paying, I only made downpayment for coder, and designer is a friend who we have verbal agreement.

I mean - this is probably natural for every starting business in the beggining, when your resources are limited.

I am however in daily talks to them over MSN checking up things. In fact i feel bit guilty for harrassing them daily - but ive been nice over 6 months now and time is really close and ive made all arrangements for launch. So eventhough i feel bit guilty I will keep hitting the iron so to speak. I mean in the end - eventhough im paying less money than they usually would charge - an agreement is there, and if one agrees to work for less then they cant complain me wanting it to be finished - especially since the launch has been postponed 3 times already....

Curious how it turned out -

Would you post the final design? :)

JTGizmo: I think you have every right to be pestering them. Six months is a LONG time to wait! That makes my four week wait look pretty paltry in compaison.

But IR will also present the javascript and html code for you automatically. It does a pretty good job.

It actually does a very poor job :( There's been posts about this in the past that go into much detail with regards to the downsides of using that generated code.



@ Up and At 'Em

I am very curious to see the design as well - your site isn't currently up and tomorrow is the 24th, so I'm interested to hear what has happened and if you are going to make the deadline.

nah the entire work is 12 months, 6 months have been working on screenforms, the coder has only worked on the site 2,5 months.... and dont even go there how frustruated i have been at the time, sometimes even on verge of giving up.....

this were the dates 15 December, 1st January, 1st February - well now HOPEFULLY next week.

there is whole drama behind it, once i get it running i will tell ya.... dont want to jinx it now....

Curious how it turned out -

Would you post the final design? :)

mine? if ur talking about me then its not designer im having problem its the coder...

JTGizmo: I really hope, for your sanity's sake, that your site is finished by next week. I also hope your coder doesn't tack any extra charges onto the price at the end like mine did.

My site is with the coder now, but he's gone on holiday. Supposedly he's got a team of people working on all his projects while he's gone, and he said he'd be checking his email almost daily. If that's true, then he's a keeper. Since this is my first experience working with him, though, I can only say that so far the experience has been good. If we stick to the original time frame, my finished site will be done by Friday. But, with him gone, I don't know if that will happen. He won't return until sometime in April. Hopefully things will go as planned.

Keep us all posted. I'll look forward to seeing your site once it's up. Mine's not up yet, but when it is I'll be sure to let you know.

you could have downloaded a free 30 day trial of photoshop, sliced the .psd and there is the option to save as html, pass the html and images onto your programmer and the sites done (something your designer should have done ... takes 2 minutes)

... unfortunatly the programmer is now on holiday

Jason,

I'm not really sure what you mean by slicing and all, but what you said makes me feel even more reassured that I'm doing the right thing by not using this designer again.

Oh well. Life goes on. It's in the programmer's hands now....or rather in the hands of his development team. I really wonder if the site will be done by Friday. I have alot of doubts given the programmer is gone now.

In the meantime, I'm looking for a good copywriter. Hopefully whoever I hire for that will have better work ethics and get the job done on time.

It's unfortunate that anybody has to have these experiences, here's a link and I hope it helps.

hxxp://saberfusion.com/slicing.php

if only for future reference or someone else experiencing the same issue.

Thanks, Jason. I'll take a look at that link.

Wow - what a saga!

Dunno what programming you refer to - php/mysql/javascript maybe - but 2 weeks is a long time, never mind months! We do these things in a week for clients in a rush!

A prvious paster was right - get a copy of Dreamweaver and DIY! Study up on the programming by searching the web for tutorials.

Stewart
ITLogic Solutions

Hello, Up & At 'Em,

I hope that your "saga" is now coming to a successful end. :agree:

Indeed, the initial idea of this post was to recommend you a team of fellow copywriters, who would, in my humble opinion, provide you with quality website content.

Since I know them for a long time now, I wouldn't miss to point out that they are all very punctual, consistent and trustworthy. More information on that sweet team of theirs - Six Figure Challenge (http://www.sixfigurewriters.com/) :)

Hope my recommendations turn out to be useful to you ;)

Flysouth: I don't know if the programmer will have the site done by Friday or not. I highly doubt it since he's gone on vacation now until sometime in April. I haven't heard from him since last Wednesday, nor have I heard anything from the development team he supposedly has working on it. I'll email him on Wednesday if Haven't heard anything from him by then.

No, I don't think this saga is over yet. I wonder if it will ever be over. Even once the site is up and running, sooner or later I'm going to need something, and I'll have to depend on someone else to get it done. Doing the work myself isn't an option. I'm wearing enough hats and don't have the time to add anymore.

Instance: Thanks for the link. The website looks like it's got some pretty rich content. I will enjoy reading it.

Even once the site is up and running, sooner or later I'm going to need something, and I'll have to depend on someone else to get it done. Doing the work myself isn't an option. I'm wearing enough hats and don't have the time to add anymore.
By no doubt. Probably the time of you to search for a much more reliable team (programmer, copywriter, etc.) has already come. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you liked the link - such an enthusiastic team of professional writers does provide very nice content. :agree:

Yes, I liked it very much. Thank you!