I just got an email from Thawte telling me that for the first time they are increasing the price of their certs. No problem says I. Then I looked at how much they are increasing - WOW 60%.

The new pricing is as follows:

Product New Renew
SSL1 Year $199 $159
SSL 2 Year $349 $299
SGC 1 Year $449 $399
SGC 2 Year $849 $749

Given the amount of competition on the market, I feel that this is just taking the berties :eek:

awww dammit i was thinking of buying one of their certs 2 :bawling:

Verisign strikes again!

Just got off support chat with Thawte, and yes this is true. Renewal fees are increasing to the above stated amounts on August 5th. :rolleyes:

There's always GeoTrust :)

"There's always GeoTrust '
Yep!
I cant belive 60%, i can see a small increase but ****

Better renew or buy before August. I just renewed some myself.

WOW.... whats the deal with verisign lately?
sending emails to other registrars customers and now jacking the price of certs by 60%...

someone over there is getting a little greedy.

Originally posted by whw
WOW.... whats the deal with verisign lately?
[...]
someone over there is getting a little greedy.
Lately?

Originally posted by JayC

Lately?

ok i just havent been paying attention then ;)

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Better renew or buy before August. I just renewed some myself.

You just fell prey to their schemes. Why not vote with your feet. I certainly will not be paying those stupid prices.

It is just out of order. They cannot charge a decent price for domains and they are now jacking the price of their certs up by 60%

I dont know if its just me, but HELLO!!! Why pay up when there is so much competition out their selling certs at a fraction of their pricing.

I am gobsmacked.

noone who knows about the competition would buy from them to begin with, so why not raise prices? they make more $$ per sale off the unsuspecting ones.

-brendan

Originally posted by HRBrendan
noone who knows about the competition would buy from them to begin with, so why not raise prices? they make more $$ per sale off the unsuspecting ones.

Sadly, you hit the nail on the head.

I'm happy with my $49 GeoTrust cert from RackShack. I thought Thwate was expensive to begin with, but this price hike is just ridiculous.

Ouch, i'm glad we brought ours just over a month ago:)

VeriSign better pull up their socks...they may end up without any clients in a few years. I guess as long as they keep making money off of every domain registration put through another registrar, they will have no need to do anything....

As well, if you have ever tried to change anything to do with your account with them (admin email addy) you will find that they are less than helpfull.....

Oh well....just my opinion.. :)

Well, we just renewed our Thawte the other day, good timing for a change!

:-)

Edited - sorry copied and pasted the wrong text.

Eh.. Mark whats your input :confused:

What i meant to say was what are the other alternatives. I see that GeoTrust bought the SSL Cert business from Equifax.

Has anyone used.... http://www.instantssl.com for example?

Just trying to get a clearer picture of who are the root authorities and who are the resellers.

Any opinions on entrust.net ?

Well,

I will be putting all my business with instantssl. I have tried them and are happy. But I cant comment on the others as I have not used them.

All certs work the same way - If your browser is compatible with the root certificate then no problems.

Most of thawte competitors certs are signed with a root cert recognised by over 95% of the worlds web browsers and as more people upgrade this will increase naturally.

I see no reason for anyone to buy certs at $160, its pathetic. :eek:

Mark,

I see from your Data centre tour you are in meridian gate (like us) how are you finding it ;)

mlovick, thought i'd seen your company name somewhere else - a couple of racks down from one of our racks i think. Yep - can't fault them apart from one problem with the UPS a couple of months ago - no problems at all. VERY Good price, great facilities, good choice of transit bandwidth providers and they even used to have a great view of Canary Wharf until they blanked the windows :) We'll have to nip over to the spinnaker for a quick beer if we bump into you down there.
Can't believe the price of instantssl certs!! $49 / year!! I guess we won't be using the devil of the net anymore!! Always wondered when they'd up the price after the takeover.

Thawte's price increase was hardly surprising. It was really more a matter of when and by how much once VeriSign took control of the company.

We'll have to nip over to the spinnaker for a quick beer if we bump into you down there.

No problem - look forward to that ;)

I used to be in Harbour exchange (next to UK2) but I like meridian gate a lot - better parking too.

instantssl's isp package is pretty good. Definately a chance to earn extra pennies from it and the certs are 95%+ compatible so thats where im putting my business.

Originally posted by Hostworkz.com
Thawte's price increase was hardly surprising. It was really more a matter of when and by how much once VeriSign took control of the company.

Yes, I agree. But shame on them! 60% is stupid. Did some executive get up one morning and think of a number and double it then decided that that number would be useful for somthing, oh yeh... "I need to fund my fat cat lifestyle lets screw over our loyal customers".

Originally posted by mlovick


I used to be in Harbour exchange (next to UK2) but I like meridian gate a lot - better parking too.

instantssl's isp package is pretty good. Definately a chance to earn extra pennies from it and the certs are 95%+ compatible so thats where im putting my business.

meridian gate - Can't believe how quickly they are filling it up tho - practically a new row of racks every time we go there.

Will most certainly sign up with instantssl; always looking for alternatives to Verisign ;-) It's a shame OpenSRS resell certs and don't actually do their own.

meridian gate - Can't believe how quickly they are filling it up tho - practically a new row of racks every time we go there

True.. What happened to the dot com bust :D Look at all those 1000 quid setup fees ... nice!

I agree with you mlovick. A 60% price increase is pathetic!

As you all I know I predict the collapse of everything lol -- and this is the collapse of Verisign. They make continue to make their dogs and cats with domain registration, but you'll soon see them sell out regarding certifcates.

I have had a reply and though I would share it with you all:

I'm sure that it will take a lot to get your business back, however I
would
like to give you an honest overlook to why we had to increase our
prices.
OK I am listening.
It has become financially impossible to provide fully authenticated
certificates with 24X5 dedicated support at the same prices as 5 years
ago.
I cannot remember ever needing support from them. So I have to pay for the ones who cant install their certs do I?
The actual SSL technology as you know is free for everyone to use, it is
the
authentication, the after sale support and the CA root that we charge
for.
Yes, but this is what the other "quick cert" companies do at less than a third of your cost!
That's why you'll find that all Quick SSL vendors are much cheaper
because
they don't do the high level of authentication like we've always have
done.
They don't get the KPMG web audits (and they don't come cheap) because
they're
use someone else's more established CA's roots. This is the only reason
why
they are cheaper. Never mind the browser compatibility.
This is a lame answer. Whether they use anothers CA root or not - they do the job and they dont cost $160! Plus the browser compatibility is over 95%, that is more than when thawte started I would guess.
The price increase was necessary in order for us to continue delivering
a high
quality Digital Trust Service to the entry level marketParaphrase: "We need to buy more doughnuts in the office"
We're not here
to
make a quick buck,No - just a big buck.
we're here to stay and lead the Digital Trust Service
industry in to better standards.
JamRover doesnt seem to think so.
I've also attached a breakdown of the ISP's re seller discounts for your
review.No thanks
Should you change your mind and decide to stay with us, I'll be here to
meet
your needs to the best of my ability.You will be waiting a long time. Try reducing your prices and maybe you will earn back the respect.

Nuff said me thinks.

Originally posted by mlovick
You just fell prey to their schemes. Why not vote with your feet. I certainly will not be paying those stupid prices.


That's certainly up to you. I don't pay full price for the certs anyhow, in fact I'm paying less than a Geotrust cert (Thawte: $100, GeoTrust: $119).

And I am voting with my feet. I'm voting for Thawte. Thawte has provided me outstanding service and support, and resolved a very serious problem I had several years ago.

Originally posted by mlovick
I dont know if its just me, but HELLO!!! Why pay up when there is so much competition out their selling certs at a fraction of their pricing.

Cheaper does not equal better. Frankly, the security of my business and being comfortable working with a company that I know and trust and has proven itself worthy of my patronage is worth $1 a week.

Maybe those looking for a cheapo cert don't think their business is worth $1 a week -- I can't answer that question for them.

Hey mlovick:

I was checking out your reseller 100 plan. I can get more space and transfer than that for about 1/10th of what you're charging. Is your price so outrageous because need "to buy more doughnuts in the office"?

I hope you see my point.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Hey mlovick:

I was checking out your reseller 100 plan. I can get more space and transfer than that for about 1/10th of what you're charging. Is your price so outrageous because need "to buy more doughnuts in the office"?

I hope you see my point.

I do not and have never increased my pricing by 60% - that is the issue hostpath.com, the fact is that I was happy paying the $100 dollars and would have quite happily renewed even with a 10% increase (way above inflation) - BUT 60%. Come on - do I not have a genuine complaint here?

How many customers would I or you lose by jacking up the cost 60% - the answer : A LOT.

If you cannot agree with that then you are not in the real world.

Originally posted by mlovick
I do not and have never increased my pricing by 60% - that is the issue hostpath.com, the fact is that I was happy paying the $100 dollars and would have quite happily renewed even with a 10% increase (way above inflation) - BUT 60%. Come on - do I not have a genuine complaint here?

I suppose you do, if you don't think the increase is worth it. Personally, I don't have any problem with the increase because I'm extremely happy with the service. At $100 per, I felt I was getting off cheap -- but of course I've been in the Web business since 1990 and I've paid $600 a year for a cert.

Personally, I'm pleased that Thawte contacted me and gave me the chance to renew BEFORE the increase. They could have simply waited and collected the higher fee.

Originally posted by mlovick
How many customers would I or you lose by jacking up the cost 60% - the answer : A LOT.

Probably so. But if that's what I felt I needed to charge to operate my business successfully and attain the proper profit, then that's what I'd have to do.

Originally posted by mlovick
If you cannot agree with that then you are not in the real world.

So you mean that unless my opinion agrees with yours it is invalid?

Lets just agree to disagree ;)

Originally posted by mlovick


<Snip>

How many customers would I or you lose by jacking up the cost 60% - the answer : A LOT.

If you cannot agree with that then you are not in the real world.

The have a reason for this. They have been losing market share for a while. Geotrust and the others have been selling for cheaper. People who buy cheap, will almost always go as low as possible. Thawte has brand name and a following. Those who will buy/renew with Thawte, will usually stay with them. It they lose people, do they care? Not when they increase things by 60%. They know they will probably lose them anyway to the other guys sooner or later. The technique they just pulled has been done for years. You can really see it in the drug market. Ever wonder why there is such a huge disparity between brand name and generic. Just the other day I went and bought some cold medicine. NyQuil was $2.00 more then the generic. Almost 100% more in price. Guess what I bought? NyQuil. When generic drugs hit the market, the brand name guys almost alway raise the price. They know the increase will cover the lose to the cheapo's, and they know those who buy brand name, will continue to.

Just my 2 cents.


In anycase, as a long-time Thawte partner, we were bummed. We like Thawte, but over the last few months, it has taken weeks to get certs. Plus service has went down hill. This price raise, coupled with the fact Verisign are scum bags, makes us move to GeoTrust.

Well I am not out against Verisign - they can charge what they like. I was just very shocked like you were. It was said that "Cheaper does not equal better" but it can also be said that More expensive does not equal better.

hostpath.com, I did not mean any disrespect with the "real world" comment - so please dont take offence ;)

After all of that, I'm looking at becoming a reseller of InstantSSL certs. There's a couple of sites that I'll stick with Thawte on because I will sleep better doing so -- but there are others I have that don't require that so I think I'll try InstantSSL certs on a few of those less critical sites and see how it goes. If well, reselling might be a serious option.

Hey, here's a place for FREE certs valid for six months:

http://certs.ipsca.com/

Many of you will probably remember the days when Thawte were the new guys on the block and it took a lot of persuading to get clients to get a cert from them rather than the "industry standard" Verisign. Took a bit of doing but after a while they were recognised enough for people to be comfortable with them. (And recognised by a large enough percentage of browsers).

It has been mentioned to me a couple of times that ONE of the reasons Verisign bought Thawte (apart from the obvious) was because they were so efficient - only needing a fraction of the staff to administer / run the a very similar business as Verisign at a fraction of the cost. Not sure how much truth is in that, but one could possibly argue now that they didn't get what they were looking for in that respect and that even the reverse has happened.

My favourite ICANN accredited registrar (Registrars.com) was totally ruined by Verisign, and when looking for a new Registrar recently one of the first questions i had was... Are they in danger of being taken over by Verisign. Oh for an OpenSRS in the world of SSL Certs.

Originally posted by hostpath.com
Hey, here's a place for FREE certs valid for six months:

http://certs.ipsca.com/

Would seem that they are .......
"ipsCA root Certificate (IPS SERVIDORES) was incorporated in Internet Explorer 5.01 and since then Microsoft distributes it in every release of Internet Explorer and Operating System. Today our root certificate is present in more than 90% of todays browsers."

I'll signup and see what the catch is.

Interesting mark - I had over 800 domains with registrars.com and they all got taken away from being $15 to being $35 within a few weeks.

This was a business loss of $16000 (providing all the customers renewed). I also wonder what verisign will take over next. Maybe BT!

Oooooooh - don't get me started on BT (Verisign/BT=Match Made in Heaven)!! I remember BT Trustwise cold called me a few years ago to ask if i was interested in using Trustwise instead of Verisign (back in the days when i had just moved from Verisign to Thawte) and i asked them for what possible reason would i need to pay their extrordinary prices (i think it was 1GPB = 1USD in their eyes back then), and all they could offer was that "Well you can call us during UK business hours". No way - that was the only reason they could justify me paying way over top dollar!! I had to just laugh at the guy and put the phone down.

Lets just say i was sooo pleased when the cable companies came about and gave us a choice of not having to use BT for anything.

(Verisign/BT=Match Made in Heaven)!!

LOL:D

I was pretty shocked at the price rises too, we've spent quite a bit of money in the past with Thawte. We're most likely going to go with GeoTrust as we didn't have any problems with our WildCard cert from them. I kind of expected the increase in price, especially since Verisign took over and changed the pricing on their own WildCard certs. As for BT TrustWise - they'd be the people that won't give you the CSR used etc. when a client leaves their hosting service and wants to take their SSL cert with them.

Chalk us up for Meridian Gate too :)

Soooo....

what do you guys think of the instantssl.com certificates? It looks like they are triple chained and are harder to install...

do you guys like the Geotrust Quick SSl certs or the Instant SSL certs better?

Everyone should know that the average prices of the Geotrust certs are going up, at least that's the way it seems from what other companies are selling them for.

Yoru thoughts appreciated as Rackshack decides how we proceed with respect to reselling cheap certs.

Robert

I have not tried the geotrust cert but I have tried the instant ssl and I didnt have any probs installing it.

BTW - what does TRIPLE CHAINED mean (excuse my ignorance).

Originally posted by KDAWebServices
Chalk us up for Meridian Gate too :)

Wow Karl - thats a long way to travel - linconshire to meridian gate ;)

What do you think about their interGate program?

Originally posted by headsurfer
Soooo....

what do you guys think of the instantssl.com certificates? It looks like they are triple chained and are harder to install...

do you guys like the Geotrust Quick SSl certs or the Instant SSL certs better?

Everyone should know that the average prices of the Geotrust certs are going up, at least that's the way it seems from what other companies are selling them for.

Yoru thoughts appreciated as Rackshack decides how we proceed with respect to reselling cheap certs.

Robert

I thought chaining is an important part of the PKI architecture and its a good practice to do that as digitally signing using your root key that will stay around 20 years will comprimise the security of that root key (becuase there will be many signed certificates that could be used to break the root, yes granted it is today difficult to break this key but how about in 5 years time? Geotrust root cert is valid until 2019?!) . This is why Verisign started issuing through an intermediatry certificate just like instantssl. So, it is a factual statement to say that: Geotrust's root key is more comprimised than Verisign's and instantssl's because they use the actual 20 year root key to sign certificates. Also, to my knowledge there are no issues using intermediatry certificates as this is a common practice (a good one too!) in PKI. I find people who do not practice this to be a, a bit naive since they consider themselves to be promoting security and trust;).

I'll be honest and say I'd not looked at it as at the moment we're having a rack inside a private suite that belongs to someone else and they manage the conectivity etc.

(Lincolnshire -> Meridian Gate) < (Lincolnshire -> Lakeland, FL)

:)

Originally posted by mlovick
I have not tried the geotrust cert but I have tried the instant ssl and I didnt have any probs installing it.

BTW - what does TRIPLE CHAINED mean (excuse my ignorance).

well this is to say that;

Verisign Root key (about 20 year life)
Verisign Intermediatry Key (digitally Signed by Verisign Root Key) (about 5-10 year life time)
Your SSL certificate (digitally signed by the Verisign Intermediatry Key) (life time= whatever the customer has paid for it. 1,2,3yr)

In reality this has Only One intermediatry key

for instantssl its:

Globalsign root
Globalsign partner root (signed by Globalsign root)
Comodo intermediatry root key (signed by globalsign partner root)
Your SSL certificate (digitally signed by the Comodo Intermediatry Key) (life time= whatever the customer has paid for it.1,2,3 yr)

so this instantssl configuration has 2 intermediatries rather than 1 with verisign. and this makes ZERO difference to usage but is a good practice.


hope this helps.

Hosty

Originally posted by mlovick


Wow Karl - thats a long way to travel - linconshire to meridian gate ;)

What do you think about their interGate program?

interGate is way to expensive for what it is - IMHO. Basically They've just gone and joined RIPE and got their own Autonomous System. They are getting their bandwidth from EasyNet and ClaraNet (currently). I think it was £10k / year per Mbps which i think is over the odds. For example to get BGP setup the costs are....approx £1,148.06 GBP / Year with startup fee of £1,339.40 GBP (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/billing2002.html). Adding in the price of your 2 connections plus, assuming that you can get your providers to implement the BGP for you so that you don't have the cost of routers it works out a lot cheaper than the interGate product. 'Tis a shame interGate isn't a bit cheaper. Interestingly LIPEX (Free to join smaller version of LINX) (http://www.lipex.net) is in the rack opposite one of ours in Meridian Gate.

Sorry - way off topic but someone did ask the question ;-)

We used Thawte, we enjoyed Thwate. We now have a GeoTrust cert though. While $100 wasn't too bad for a cert with Thawte's name on it 60% more is just too much considering the rest of the market.

Told out thawte rep to take our address out of his book, as we won't be interested in hearing from him anymore.

Greg Moore

This is good for a laugh. Like mlovick I complained to Thawte about the price increase, and got an identical e-mail response. BUT, the tech quoted the wrong e-mail back to me in his response, and here it is:

Steve W***** wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for your kind offer... but we will be moving to Entrust though Opensrs as we are resellers now of their SSL Cert and our cost is 100 dollars. But we are glad that your price is going up, as it will be easier For us to sell our Certs to your old customers. Your service was horrible, and you bullied your customers, we didnt forget this when you were bought out by verisign.
Thanks and have a nice day.

Steve W*****
Net*** Inc.

The thinking behind this price move is an enigma to me....

:)

Originally posted by GeoTrustCEO
The thinking behind this price move is an enigma to me....

:)

Oh? Did you not just put your prices up?

Not in a little while --- Our Prices have settled under the Thawte price, but we have added more option like extended multi-year that do cost more...........


I feel pretty comfortable there under the $125 price..... and I cannot comprehend a 60% price move all at once, but I might be missing something. It is either nuts or brilliant..... time will soon tell.

Also, we did re-launch the freessl product and have included that root in the nest Netscape release.......

Neal