Hi, cool place... so down to biz... I have a problem I need some help with so I'll start with a bit of background...
I am a small computer reseller/consultant. I build white boxes, do repairs and troubleshooting, etc. At the urging of some clients I started to provide basic web services about 2 years ago. I got a reseller account through Dotster to handle domain names, and was just setting up accounts for clients through various hosts. I'm an honest guy, this is not a 'normal' part of my business, more of a 'courtesy' to my clients, (for professional web services I have companies I refer my clients to,) but I'm also not into getting ripped off.
So on to the problem at hand...
One client got me to do a whole bunch of work for her, then didn't pay. She locked me out of the hosting account (changed the pass), but I figure, no real problem, as that's the only problem I've had out of dozens. Then she proceeds to steal my graphics, etc. and moves the site to a different host in a subdir of another account. All the domain contact info is mine, I control the domain. I cut off the DNS servers a while back, letting Dotster direct it to their default blank page (assuming she might want to do something about the bill). The domain in question expired last month, and I was going to let it go, basically writing this off.
My Dotster account is set up so basically only I can administer the domains, but just in case anyone else got in I set the retail pricing deliberately high. (I just renew/register at wholesale through my reseller account and bill my clients an extra $3 via my own billing system.)
Today I get an email from this client informing me that she had 'managed to renew the domain', and sure enough when I checked she had renewed it for 5 years. She also informs me that "I have established an account with Dotster so I have been advised that all you have to do is transfer them to me."
Somehow, even though the domains list me as the only contact info, she renewed them at WHOLESALE pricing, with no notification going to me at all that they had even been renewed. This strikes me as bizarre as every time I renew a domain each 'contact' (all me) gets a copy of the transaction emailed to them.
So the questions are:
1. How did she get even to a renewal page?
2. Do I have any obligation to release the domain (considering she's not paid her bill for even the original registration)?
3. Any suggestions on how to deal with this person?
Thanks
B

1. How did she get even to a renewal page?
2. Do I have any obligation to release the domain (considering she's not paid her bill for even the original registration)?
3. Any suggestions on how to deal with this person?
Thanks
B

1. When a domain expires with dotster it shows a nice page with a nice big "RENEW THIS DOMAIN" link. They're not ideal for reselling domains, because of this, obviously.

2. If the contact info on the domain's whois record is to you, and they never paid the origional registration fee you charged them, you should be pretty solid on this.

3. Send them a nice thank-you card for renewing your domain name? :)

1. Ask Dotster.

2. No.

3. Be polite but firm in reminding her of her dues, and be ready to see a lawyer.

I've worked with a domain registrar and have gotten this sort of thing quite often.
AFAIR none of those who made legal threats to them ever followed up, even when
the legal team was ready.

Here's what I'd tell her:

"Since you never paid for the original domain registration AND all of the contact information on the domain is listed as mine - this is my domain. While I appreciate you renewing my domain for 5 years, I am willing to cut a deal with you. If you pay me for 75% of your outstanding bill, I will consider selling the domain to you for the original price I paid for it. Rejection of this offer does not mean that you do not still have an obligation to pay your outstanding bill and it is scheduled to go into collections soon. Let me know how you want to handle this. Thanks!"

I would give her the discount on the outstanding bill, just to jostle a payment out of her. Obviously, you don't have to do that...just giving you advice on how I would handle it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

--Tina

Here's what I'd tell her:

"Since you never paid for the original domain registration AND all of the contact information on the domain is listed as mine - this is my domain. While I appreciate you renewing my domain for 5 years, I am willing to cut a deal with you. If you pay me for 75% of your outstanding bill, I will consider selling the domain to you for the original price I paid for it. Rejection of this offer does not mean that you do not still have an obligation to pay your outstanding bill and it is scheduled to go into collections soon. Let me know how you want to handle this. Thanks!"

I would give her the discount on the outstanding bill, just to jostle a payment out of her. Obviously, you don't have to do that...just giving you advice on how I would handle it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

--Tina

I liked what Tina said, and before proceeding further meet a lawyer to be safe on your side.

Jacob, Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on a Registrar I can use that's a) good, and b) I won't have this sort of problem in the future? This seems like a way for Dotster to usurp clientele, doesn't it?

Dave, Tina, and Biju,
Thanks as well. I've owned domains since 1994 and have run into all sorts of legal issues with message board posts and stuff, but nothing quite like this. I need to be on real solid ground with this case as the woman's husband is a cop (not in my jurisdiction thankfully). It's a not-for-profit registered organization that she runs, so I don't want to be heavy-handed, just fair. That being said, if you don't mind, Tina, I'll copy pretty much verbatim what you said you'd say.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep you posted.

Brian

Go right ahead and use my words. Just remember, use them at your own risk. If someone sues you or kicks your butt over them...I'm not responsible! :D

--Tina

Jacob, Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on a Registrar I can use that's a) good, and b) I won't have this sort of problem in the future? This seems like a way for Dotster to usurp clientele, doesn't it?

Brian

Brian,

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of eNom (http://www.enom.com)'s reseller system. Granted, the whole $3 charge to load up your account online kinda bites, but short of that, they have wonderful support, and an awesome API for handling things.

I remember when I first saw the Dotster thing and the only thing I could think to come up with is 'Well, aren't they being cheeky monkeys?' but they're mostly geared towards retail sales to the end user... and maybe they even have a config option in their system to not do that, but who knows. :D We're very happy with eNom, and don't see a reason to change in the near future.

Brian,

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of eNom (http://www.enom.com)'s reseller system.

they started to cut the domain off on the day of expiry AND register any expired name and charge you $160 to get it back if you do not act in time. I know this is their right but it sucks.. Not to mention the support thing at the moment is like - approaching nil from the negative side.

There is also another post earlier about register it in your own name and pass it over when the client pay. DO NOT do that if it is a .co.uk name as Nominet will charge £30+VAT for each change of the legal owner with a load of paper to do. So best not to buy any name for the client until you have got paid. The margin is not even to justify the hassel you get.

they started to cut the domain off on the day of expiry AND register any expired name and charge you $160 to get it back if you do not act in time. I know this is their right but it sucks.. Not to mention the support thing at the moment is like - approaching nil from the negative side.

Ok, couple things.

1) Cut the domain off on the day of expiry? No kidding. I would too. They make what, typically maybe $0.20 per domain? Well within their rights.

2) Learn the domain name process. If you got charged $160 for your domain name then you let it lapse past 30 days. The first 30 days (typically) you can renew it for the price of renewal. After that, your grace period expires, and the registrar can optionally hold it another 30 (typically) days for you. The second period of 30 days is called the 'redemption period.' Honestly, if the domain is so important to you that you're going to pay the $160, then why did you wait the 30 days for your domain to go to redemption in the first place?

3) Support. What are you asking for as far as support from eNom? The only things we've evr had to tak them about are 3 fold.
a) Change/update the API IPs allowed.
b) Redo glue records on a nameserver that had been set up.
c) Refund an erronus domain name purchase when testing an order form out.

All three of these got handled, and with proper handling on the client's side of things, none of these should be urgent requests...

then why did you wait the 30 days for your domain to go to redemption in the first place?

lets put this in light of being a UK host. customer here are less willing to do things for themselves and they tends to drag their feet when it comes to pay their bills as well; No matter how good your billing system is. They get reminder 60 days before the domain is due for renewal and yet i get people ringing up when it got cut off and give all sort of execuses of why they have not paid their bills and it is always YOUR FAULT if anything happen to their domain name.

If you get the news that the customer have to pay $160 to get their name back and you have to spend 1 hour on a long distance phone to get the reply. You have to put your mark up on top for a product that you make like £10 for, then who do you think got the worse abuse in the end?

If only Human beings are as clean cut as procedure and IT processes.

lets put this in light of being a UK host. customer here are less willing to do things for themselves and they tends to drag their feet when it comes to pay their bills as well; No matter how good your billing system is. They get reminder 60 days before the domain is due for renewal and yet i get people ringing up when it got cut off and give all sort of execuses of why they have not paid their bills and it is always YOUR FAULT if anything happen to their domain name.

If you get the news that the customer have to pay $160 to get their name back and you have to spend 1 hour on a long distance phone to get the reply. You have to put your mark up on top for a product that you make like £10 for, then who do you think got the worse abuse in the end?

If only Human beings are as clean cut as procedure and IT processes.

Back in my work with a domain registrar, that's also one of the common complaints
I've gotten. Join the club. :D

Here are a few "facts of life" when it comes to .com domain names:

1. Many domain name holders don't know and don't care how these go. All they do
care about are getting results based on what they're willing to pay for.

2. Many of them tend to have unrealistic expectations based on incomplete or also
inaccurate information (e.g. they own the domain name even after it expires). I've
observed this in every call or email I'd get about it.

3. It's arguably "human nature" that people will complain about something and not
honestly admit they could've done a thing or to possibly prevent that.

In any case, hold your customers accountable for their actions.

Put it in your legal fine prints, state them as part of your FAQ, do whatever it takes
to let your customers know the drawbacks of not renewing their domain names in
a timely manner. State in your renewal notices how much it'll cost to redeem them.

I've been screamed at, cajoled, even threatened with legal suits and bodily harm.
At every time I chose to remain calm, polite, and firm in our position.

So far so good, none of them followed up on their threats. But we were ready for
each and every one of them.

Give them options and their potential results, then let them decide. Hope for the
best, expect the worst, and prepare accordingly.

Maybe its because the advertising for domain names is slightly misleading

you never "own" a domain name. you "rent" it.

You just have exclusive rights to extend your rental contract while you are paying the rent.

They get reminder 60 days before the domain is due for renewal
In the reminder message you should state that if they fail to pay by the renewal date it will cost them $150 to get there domain back.

3. Any suggestions on how to deal with this person?
Thanks
B

There's alway this:

nano -w .htaccess
Redirect temp index.html http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=576032