Just wondering how other hosts deal with this. Yesterday we had someone come into our live chat system and call us a kiddie host. He wanted my national insurance number and after I refused rightly he accused us of being a kiddie host. I got his email and (I only found out after) it appears he works for another shady host.

Just wondering how you all deal with abuse. This guy said he wanted to host important files and still needed us after he called us a kiddie host. I turned him away from the chat for insulting the company and told him we will not serve him anymore.

I have had problems with swearing clients on live chat and people just coming in and insulting us plainly through live chat. It's now becoming a big time waster. Shady hosts coming on for whatever reasons and I think me and the team need to discuss on whether to remove this option.

Are there any last options I can do to prevent abuse of the live chat feature?

Thanks,
Matt ;)

Nothing you can do, really, except close the chat window. :) We have these problems, too, and they're definitely very irksome!

Maybe report them? can you see their i.p address? if they continue then surely it's some sort of mis-use? Just a thought.

Nothing you can do, really, except close the chat window. :) We have these problems, too, and they're definitely very irksome!

Indeed it is a pain and a waste of time :(

Maybe report them? can you see their i.p address? if they continue then surely it's some sort of mis-use? Just a thought.

Yes, I got the IP address from the person yesterday and they have been banned. But this problem just reoccurs. Different user, shady host, or someone intent on causing trouble.

Not sure about reporting them. Maybe more effort then it's worth?

Just try to be as polite to them as possible never know who they really are. Ban them after the chat if it was clear they were there to cause trouble and move on. If you have a lot of problems with abuse on the live chat then maybe it's a sign that you're growing.

if they swear at you you could just say something along the lines of "im sory sir/madami dont have to take this sort of abuse" and end the conversation

Okay people.

A friend of mine wanted to get a very good host to host important documents. That day I recommend Matt. I met him that day and his site/uptime seemed good. Firslty Matt there is no reason to lie.
He asked for your Company Number. As he had been with another host who got shut down for not being legal or something like that ...together with that he lost a photo album of an exicting trip he had to south america and also a few other things. He wanted to make sure you were legal. Not only could you not give him the server spec's' but you couldn't give him your company number. Companies give that at the bottom sometimes. After refusing he assumed that you weren't registered and called you a 'kiddie' host. Matt, please don't lie.

P.S he wanted off-network that's why he didn't host on his site.

I gave him the server specification but firstly I said that this is only for our clients. When a potential client asks we usually don't refuse so I sent him the server specification anyway.

Seen as you decided to come out and talk here is the transcript. He shouldn't go around assuming. You have made both your hosts look shady in all our eyes here at PN.

The transcript is below for all to see. Note I didn't bring up anyone's name or host so by bringing up your name and telling your warped view I will defend the company and myself.

PN-Matt: Hello
Craig: Good Evening :)
PN-Matt: How may I help you?
Craig: I'm just wondering if you know any hosts
Craig: that would like to resale IRCd's
Craig: shells
PN-Matt: Resell IRC shells? I am afraid we only do webhosting here
Craig: BAH!
PN-Matt: That is what this live chat is for. Sorry I cannot help you there
Craig: Why such a little hosting package
PN-Matt: we can do custom packages if you like
Craig: ahh
Craig: can you give me a price on a custom package??
PN-Matt: Yes, What are your requirements please?
Craig: 300mb Space, 4GB Bandwidth , unlimited subdomains
Craig: unlimited mail accounts
Craig: 10 mysql database
PN-Matt: That can be done for �2.60/$5.11 a month
Craig: Hmm
Craig: Sikohosting seem's cheaper
Craig: Activeboxdns.com are doing it for �1.50
PN-Matt: Well, We provide superior quality over other hosts with a great friendly community and 24/7 email support
Craig: what's your server specs?
Craig: and uptime
PN-Matt: our uptime can be seen here
PN-Matt: http://www.webhostingstuff.com/uptime/PastillesNetworks.html
PN-Matt: server specs are not released to non customers at this stage
Craig: well for all i know
Craig: you could be a reseller#
PN-Matt: if you want the stats i can get these for you specially
Craig: I need this to host important files..
PN-Matt: Server Specifications: CPU: Dual Core P4 3.0GHz RAM: 2GB OS: CentOS
Craig: Hard Drive
Craig: ?
PN-Matt: Is it mission critical? We do failover too although those servers are based in the US
PN-Matt: One minute
PN-Matt: I am logging into our main server to get this information for you
PN-Matt: Current Disk Usage Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda3 2.0G 641M 1.2G 35% / /dev/sda1 99M 17M 77M 18% /boot /dev/sda8 182G 48G 126G 28% /home /dev/sda7 981M 98M 833M 11% /tmp /dev/sda5 25G 5.4G 18G 24% /usr /dev/sda2 20G 6.9G 12G 38% /var /dev/sdb1 276G 43G 219G 17% /backup
Craig: You uk based?
PN-Matt: Yes, Our main office is located in North London
Craig: so you'll have a Tax number? :)
PN-Matt: Yes
Craig: please can i've have your registered company number?
Craig: to prove your legit
Craig: :)
PN-Matt: Are you from another host?
Craig: nopes!
Craig: I've had problems with hosts
Craig: being closed down
Craig: due to them trading illegally
PN-Matt: This host won't have that problem. We are celebrating our first birthday shortly.
Craig: So you'll give me your tax number?
Craig: so i can confirm you legit
PN-Matt: No, We only release that to authorities
PN-Matt: If you don't like it this way then it's your choice whether to purchase from us or not.
Craig: Right
Craig: I'll contact trading Standards
Craig: see what they say to this :)
PN-Matt: Do what you like sir
Craig: you can not refuse to hand it out
PN-Matt: Thanks for contacting us
Craig: it should be published at bottom of your site!
PN-Matt: No it does not have to
Craig: but if visitors ask for it
Craig: you can't refuse
PN-Matt: It's not your concern I am afraid. If you have a problem please go ahead and report it.
Craig: kiddy hosts
PN-Matt: You would know?
PN-Matt: On what do you base this on?
Craig: yup
Craig: 1 man company
PN-Matt: Please do not insult our host
PN-Matt: No
PN-Matt: check our forums
PN-Matt: Okay, This chat will end here.
PN-Matt: If you want to continue anything through feel free to send a ticket.

His email was something at this site http://activeboxdns.com/

If he wanted it off network why didn't he host it with you? :confused:

I didn't want to because incase we went down or something I didn't want to ruin friendship...
Just so you know when you buy something at a store it shows tax number
Tax number is not national insurance.

I didn't want to because incase we went down or something I didn't want to ruin friendship...

You seem uncertain...

Just so you know when you buy something at a store it shows tax number

Not all shops. It's not a requirement.

Tax number is not national insurance.

I am in the UK and there are many things that can be classed/called "tax number" such as a VAT TAX number, Corporate tax number... etc. The most common used/asked tax number here is the National Insurance number.

Matt

I didn't want to because incase we went down or something I didn't want to ruin friendship...Your posts make me laugh, especially this one: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=570936

Just so you know when you buy something at a store it shows tax numberIn most cases a tax number is a person's SSN. They're not going to openly give this out. PN has no reason to show him any of that information. If you don't think he's legit, don't buy from him and don't recommend him.

repoman: Quit while you're behind. The OP was courteous enough to not post the company name, although you came in the conversation like you're something special. How about you worry about your 'company' and only your 'company'?

The problem with reporting is that there's no one to report them to. What they're doing is not illegal, and is likely not even against the ISP's TOS. They're probaly just obnoxious SOBs running smaller hosts, and trying to compete with you.

I just ignore them.

Don't argue or debate. Its just silly and EXACTLY what they want. Leave the chat window open, once it starts going south, and don't type another word. They will get bored and leave you alone.

--Tina

Its true. If you stop conversing they leave. They are looking for a reaction from you.

None of it is worth your time.

If they continue going on spamming you or abusing your chat services that are meant for paying clients, you can easily contact the owner of the ip. Just do a whois on ip and email the isp who owns the ip, give them the ip and when it awas used to abuse your services. Just explain the whole story to them in short and tell them that it's costing you money etc. If they're generous enough they will send their client (abuser) an email telling them to stop the abusive beahaviour.

If they continue going on spamming you or abusing your chat services that are meant for paying clients, you can easily contact the owner of the ip. Just do a whois on ip and email the isp who owns the ip, give them the ip and when it awas used to abuse your services. Just explain the whole story to them in short and tell them that it's costing you money etc. If they're generous enough they will send their client (abuser) an email telling them to stop the abusive beahaviour.

Yes, that's what I meant but this is more clearly put, as for the abuser, It seems YOU are either a egotistical vegatable or a person who is jealous of other people's company's. So you must think by abusing them and causing hate you will damage their reputation as a whole.

Matt if he persists and carrys on JUST report him, he may think by being dynamic or going through a proxy that he cannot be traced "WRONG". report once doing a whois search to the ISP and the last trace will track him down. Resulting in a warning then if he carrys on. Termination of contract!!!

Hope this is sorted matt and could you pm me your hosting plans as I might as well take a look to see if I can get a better deal off you before I commit in jan-feb.

Yeh, Well we have had similar abusers too. I think from now on I for one will approach these abusers differently. Reporting isn't really a option because they only hang around the once :)

It's coming up for Christmas and I got a lot of work to do. So I will get back to that. Thanks for your suggestions it really doesn't seem like we have a option when faced with this apart from closing the chat.

PM sent pulpfiction ;)

Matt

I must say that you handled the client very well considering all that was said and done! Congratulations on showing the rest how it should be done, more particulary pointing at "the other thread".

The problem with reporting is that there's no one to report them to. What they're doing is not illegal, and is likely not even against the ISP's TOS. They're probaly just obnoxious SOBs running smaller hosts, and trying to compete with you.

If you get a lot of these problem chat sessions Matt, it sounds like they're tring to run your support down to degrade the quality of your support. Don't let them. I think Dan is right it will just some one trying to compete and push you out.


Just so you know when you buy something at a store it shows tax number

Repoman, do you live in the UK? I'm not sure what this "tax number" you're talking about even is.. If you mean a VAT Registration Number, then these can often be found on receipts. They're only required on VAT receipts.

Even PLCs often don't send out VAT receipts unless you request one, and there is often an admin fee. Why would your friend have a receipt any way.. it doesn't sound like he even bought anything.

If some one called here and asked for my VAT registration it would take me a good while to find some one that knew it.. it doesn't come up often.

So web hosting has become fashionable now. One for the mates.

I eagerly await the P Diddy video with his shaking his rackmounts.

i still dont know why he called you a kiddy host for not showing your tax number did he not think of the FDM? would have been so much easier. Also most UK hosting companies are registered in companies house as a limited company as it would otherwise be stupid to be a webhost and act as a sold trader or partnership as if anything went wrong and the hosting company when into debt the people running the company would be liable. So there really was no need to call them a kiddy host.
by the way does http://activeboxdns.com/ have a tax number? or is registered at companies house.....

I didn't want to because incase we went down or something I didn't want to ruin friendship...
Just so you know when you buy something at a store it shows tax number
Tax number is not national insurance.Hi Matt... Just wanted to say I thought you did the right thing, they were just two people (hosts even) just bored and trying to cause trouble... In the transcript he seems like an absolute idiot with the way he talks...

Don't argue or debate. Its just silly and EXACTLY what they want. Leave the chat window open, once it starts going south, and don't type another word. They will get bored and leave you alone.

--Tina

I totally agree with this. We use MSN Messenger for live support and we simply first delete them from our contacts. If they add us again and act like that again, we simply block them and don't even read their last messages if they turn out to be the likes of that Craig character.

Sorry to hear stories about stuff like this from customers.

RavenServers

Matt,

You did a very professional job of handling this negative chat.

I give them a warning, if they continue to abuse etc, then I ban their IP until I get time to investigate further into the transcript.
I work in a supermarket and people are abusive all the time about the smallest measurements etc.

If this guy really cares about price, go somewhere else. All I say is you get what you pay for. I learnt to deal with customers from Aussie Bob, I don't know how but his advice in some threads really got to me!

But I agree with Dacsoft, you did handle this well!

yes it happens to us to.

i have no answers for you as im looking for a solution too, but im quite sure there is not one.

All you can is ignore > ban > move on.

If you mean a VAT Registration Number, then these can often be found on receipts. They're only required on VAT receipts.

Even PLCs often don't send out VAT receipts unless you request one, and there is often an admin fee

Some clarification as a lot of information bandied about is not correct (in regards to the UK) ...

If you're VAT registered, then you are *obliged* to provide a VAT receipt for all purchases if requested, and no you cannot make a charge for it.

If you're claiming to be VAT registered, then you are *obliged* to provide the number on request so that people can verify it.

If you call yourself a "company" then you are *required* to be registered with Companies House, to submit annual returns, pay the fees, and file accounts. You would also then become subject to the Company Act, which specifically says that on all official documentation you clearly display your company number, and where you are registered.

Even if you are simply a "business" or a "firm" if you take online orders in the UK you are subject to the Distance Selling Regulations, which has led to prosecutions for people not showing correct contact details on the website.

If you have a merchant account, you're also under a whole set of rules regarding providing adequate contact methods for customers, a returns policy and so on.

I think PN handled themsleves well enough in the live-chat (I'm generally not allowed to use ours, I'm accused of being too short on occasions) but would seriously advise you add all the relevant details to your "about us" page and simply refer interested parties to that.

Just wondering how other hosts deal with this. Yesterday we had someone come into our live chat system and call us a kiddie host. He wanted my national insurance number and after I refused rightly he accused us of being a kiddie host. I got his email and (I only found out after) it appears he works for another shady host.

Just wondering how you all deal with abuse. This guy said he wanted to host important files and still needed us after he called us a kiddie host. I turned him away from the chat for insulting the company and told him we will not serve him anymore.

I have had problems with swearing clients on live chat and people just coming in and insulting us plainly through live chat. It's now becoming a big time waster. Shady hosts coming on for whatever reasons and I think me and the team need to discuss on whether to remove this option.

Are there any last options I can do to prevent abuse of the live chat feature?

Thanks,
Matt ;)

He probably found you from WHT? :D

Best policy is to ignore such people. It's really not worth the effort to carry out a conversation with them.