This is another complaint type post that unfortunately is going to be made on this board, relating to Paradise Designs due to no real resolution being undertaken by Tim.

On the 12th of June, Tim posted an ad for Cpanel Licenses on this board at http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=54548 for cheap cpanel licences. I had been enquiring the day before he placed that ad and was sent links to payment pages for the cpanel purchase.

I filled out this form and submitted it and the page did not proceed to an accepted or declined page, rather just 404'd I thought. Since the email i received was filled with " ------------- " at the top of the email and contained no further information, I emailed Tim and asked if the order had gone through and requested a receipt. About 24 hours went by and no reply, so I decided to send an email requesting a refund and if I did not recieve a reply then would issue a chargeback. Very shortly afterwards which would be roughtly not even 30 minutes, an e-mail arrives from Tim stating that he was away, yet this was the next day now after the offer was run. I somehow doubt that you go away when running a promotion.

I was asked if i wanted to still proceed with the order and i stated no, i wanted a refund which was stated that would be given happily but would be done within 48 hours most likely. Another 2 days went by and heard no answer from Tim at all whatsoever, so decided to send more e-mails asking what was happening with the refund. I was treated like I was not known to him this time, and that he had no idea of my order or transaction yet my bank statement shows the charge from Paradise-Designs. When i phoned my bank and checked on a discrepancy with my c/card balance, i found out that a pre-charge authority was put through for another charge on my card which i instructed the bank that was unauthorised. The bank has declined that attempted transaction on the premise that it was at pre-approval stage.

The next part was very interesting in that Tim asked me for an order ID and i used Nishtec IT Developments for the order, and he still couldnt find the transaction, so he claimed. Next, I am asked to e-mail my c/card numbers to him by email which i refused to do in a single email. I was told that he would have to contact the merchant bank and manually contact them to organise the refund and I gave him the change to prove himself as honest. Days had gone by and no word from Tim at all and some days ago, I sent another e-mail saying if i do not get this resolved asap, then i will issue a chargeback and that i have spoken to my bank regarding this issue and they have told me to go to the local branch and proceed with a chargeback.
Tim replied that he would handle it and said please dont do a chargeback, then asked for the name on my card.

I haver sent the name on my c/card to him now and its been 24 hours with no reply, and have sent yet another e-mail to him which was sent over 3 hours ago and no response. I know he is around seeing he has been posting on this board, and have had enough of being nice, giving people the benefit of the doubt, giving chances, and refraining from using this place to complain straight away before trying to resolve a problem as i have tried to do.

This is all over $55.00 but that is not the point, it's the common decency to do the right thing and people like Tim and Paradise-Designs should be banned from trading on places like this, given their current form. I do have all the evidence to valiade these claims as well.

Mohammed Kelso
Nishtec IT Developments

Hello,
$55 should be refunded to your within 4-5 days. I apoglize for not responding your email sooner. As refunds take awhile to appear back.

Um tim... I do hope that you know you SEVERLY violated your cpanel distributorship agreement by offering $55 a month cpanel licenses. You can't advertise a license for any less than 95 according to the contract, I’m going to have to speak with nick and have your account investigated as all distributors are bound and follow the agreement, not to mention the agreement states that you cannot sell external licenses for less than $65. Everybody plays on a fairly level playing field for cpanel licenses and that’s because of the agreement and I assume violations of that agreement would be treated harshly.

Ouch.

Originally posted by DanielP
Um tim... I do hope that you know you SEVERLY violated your cpanel distributorship agreement by offering $55 a month cpanel licenses. You can't advertise a license for any less than 95 according to the contract, I’m going to have to speak with nick and have your account investigated as all distributors are bound and follow the agreement, not to mention the agreement states that you cannot sell external licenses for less than $65. Everybody plays on a fairly level playing field for cpanel licenses and that’s because of the agreement and I assume violations of that agreement would be treated harshly.

Yes, I sent an e-mail to Nick & Dave on the 13th of this month because of that. Apparently he isn't a partner noc or a distributor.

Responses:

"He is reselling though someone else. - Nick"

"Timothy,
We are looking into this matter. Thank you for your concern. This will be dealt with with the utmost seriousness. - Dave"

Personally I didn't think it was something that could be done whether or not he was reselling. According to my contract, I believe that would violate the reselling distributor/partner noc's agreement and would be grounds for cancellation.

I'd like to know who let Tim resell. :rolleyes:

Excuse Me, That offer was send out to an email from NICK. So, You don't know what you think Mr.

Well, either way someone has allowed the violation of their agreement which means someone is responsible, and whomever he resells for should have their distributorship abilities revoked. For him to sell them for less than $65 a pop means he buys them for less than that, and for external licenses that is a clear violation. I do hope darkorb does the right thing and ends this as quickly as possible. Its not fair to the rest of the distributors who go by the rules to see this happen and then not have anything done.

Tim, that was an offer sent out for the % off what the distributors sold, that in no way allowed you to advertise 50% off below the minimum value in the contract. I'm very much well aware of what that email said as all distributors got a copy. That email in no way gave an "ok" to breaking the contract for 1 day for a special deal for you to sell below the contract minimum NOR did it give you the ok to advertise below the contract minimum.

EXCUSE ME ONCE AGAIN Nick, send an email out to all disturbors to allow them to have a special on all Internal and External License. I do know what I'm talking about as this is a confirmation from NICK and who we go though. This offer was ONLY VALID FOR 24 HOURS.

Originally posted by DanielP
Well, either way someone has allowed the violation of their agreement which means someone is responsible, and whomever he resells for should have their distributorship abilities revoked. For him to sell them for less than $65 a pop means he buys them for less than that, and for external licenses that is a clear violation. I do hope darkorb does the right thing and ends this as quickly as possible. Its not fair to the rest of the distributors who go by the rules to see this happen and then not have anything done.

Exactly. Yes, there was a special promotion for distributors/partners, but the contract is still there and didn't stipulate it was void during promotions.

If this was an issue, then how come nobody picked up on this or made a comment about this at all when the offer was made on this forum that TimPD made?

The main reason was that I didn't notice it (contrary to popular belief i have a life and don't read the advertising forums most of the time).

But yes, this is a very big deal as far as cpanel distributors are concerned.

Maybe because those already selling CPanel didn't really have an interest in buying it? :)

I worry about those who did buy it, if this is in violation of some contract then those folks may be in jeopardy of losing their license.

All cPanel Disturbors are aware of the deal and know that it is completely legal for the time as stated.

BTW, here is a copy of the email.


All licenses added on June 12 2002 between 00:01EST and 23:59EST will be billed at 50% off for the entire life of the license. This is valid for externals and internals!!!


Terms & Conditions
Valid for new cPanel installs only (no trasfers, no exceptions). Previous
installs are not
included. (Licenses must be added between the times above)
billing@cpanel.net must be e-mailed a list of ips that were
installed&added to the license system on the 12th before Midnight of June
14th to recieve this
discount.
This offer is void in states that prohibit it.
In the event of a dispute over this offer, DarkORB's judgement will be
final.

-Nick

Now, please show me where in that email it says that you can ADVERTISE PUBLICALLY the licenses for less than the numbers listed within your contract. If you really want i'll pop a copy of the contract up as well. Plain and simple you violated the contract and made a really really big mistake. Nick's already banned two companies from getting licenses for several reasons (non payment, contract violations etc). So please, don't try and act innocent, you violated the agreement, period.

Nick knows about the offering and knows I posted it and it was completely valid or he would have said something. Plus, the company we go though would have asked me to take the post down when I send them the URL so please understand you're wrong :).

Also tim, please save the bs about you talking to nick on AIM and him saying its ok. I can almost guarantee you that is a 100% lie. Even if he said you could, its not valid unless its in writing and signed by both parties involved. Contracts a legal binding documents meant to protect both parties. Verbal amendments to contracts usually don't count for anything. Not only that but I doubt he'd give special treatment to you considering there are many more distributors with a lot more licenses than you.

(note to those who aren't aware of this he's going back and forth with timothy on AIM saying that "nick" told him he could etc... just stopping this part before it can start).

Another complaint towards Paradise-Designs, I think you guys need your own forum on WHT.

Please tim, tell me how I’m wrong. I really want you to point out how blatant violations of a contract make me wrong. As far as the company you go through, they've had their licenses turned off more than one time for late payments and other things. There's no use arguing with you since you seem to not have the ability to comprehend any of this but needless to say I will speak with nick about it as this is a clear violation.

As far as the other posted who's worried about what would happen with the licenses. I can tell you that your worries are justified.

I will say no more. Nick can handle it.

Originally posted by iamdave
Another complaint towards Paradise-Designs, I think you guys need your own forum on WHT.



:laugh:

Well, I'm quite thankful for these revelations. I didn't buy a CPanel license from Tim because of the allegations in previous messages, I instead went another route and have enjoyed great service and support as a result.

Whoever says these kinds of posts are just "host bashing" is missing the real message I think. It helps to weed out the bad, whatever remains is usually a good choice.

All i aimed to achieve was the refund of my money and that business is business and professionalism not only is warranted in B2C but B2B dealings at all times. This Cpanel issue of license dealings isnt my realm and should be resolved by DarkOrb in their own arena.

Tim has promised to refund my c/card in the morning and hope this issue can be therefore seen as rectified, pending the refund.

A semi related post:

I think Tim just misunderstands a lot of what people are trying to point out to him. Being only 17 I can see why he would (if he is in fact just 17). Nothing wrong with being 17 but you have a lot to learn :)

And since he's trying to sell servers that don't exist then I would say this is true.

PS. the server that doesn't exist I'm referring to is a PIII 1600mhz cpu he's offering :
https://secure.nocservers.net/colo4u/

ummm.... there is no such thing as a PIII 1.6. if there is, it's a custom cpu not sold to the public :)

Originally posted by rastoma
ummm.... there is no such thing as a PIII 1.6. if there is, it's a custom cpu not sold to the public :)


Or its OC'd :D

Originally posted by The Prohacker



Or its OC'd :D

Heh!

My guess would be it's just a typo and he's referring to a P4. Or maybe a Dual 800MHz P3? Who knows.

its instances such as these that leave a bitter taste in the mouth about transacting online. there are two kinds of companies out there.

1. companies who are upfront and efficient.
2. companies who are unscrupulous or inefficient.

Two years ago I had registerd more than 400 domain names (at $35 ea... that was the common price then) via register.com. though i was getting domain names a bit cheaper from other registrars too, i specifically chose register.com thinking that a big company would be more honest and efficient.

i was mistaken. register.com did something that was to say, simply shocking and totally unscrupulous. without so much as an email, they proceeded to renew each of these domain names. you can calculate the amount i had to pay.

though i was able to retrieve my money, but only after a lot of hassle and frustration... and several long distance phone calls where i would be made to listen to music for periods as long as 20 minutes... only to be answered by a customer support executive who muddled up the matter even more... either on purpose or due to lack of efficiency.

i decided back then never to assume that a company is honest and efficient just because it is supposedly a 'big' name.

I think in order to solve the 'who is right' in the thread, we need Nick to comment about the issue. Others commenting don't really help as it doesn't help me decide if there's a problem.

If there is a problem, then it needs to be dealt with and corrected (for example if Tim misread the offer, etc., or is others misread the offer).

Can someone ask Nick to post one short post on the thread? Solve everything.

As soon as i get ahold of him I plan to have him do that chicken.

Contact him via AIM.;)

.

Originally posted by Chicken
I think in order to solve the 'who is right' in the thread, we need Nick to comment about the issue. Others commenting don't really help as it doesn't help me decide if there's a problem.

If there is a problem, then it needs to be dealt with and corrected (for example if Tim misread the offer, etc., or is others misread the offer).

Can someone ask Nick to post one short post on the thread? Solve everything.


Is it just me or havn't we seen a number of complaints about non-supply and refunds etc with this guy? :eek:

Thats whatcha get for doing bussiness with a kid. :eek:

The next part was very interesting in that Tim asked me for an order ID and i used Nishtec IT Developments for the order, and he still couldnt find the transaction, so he claimed. Next, I am asked to e-mail my c/card numbers to him by email which i refused to do in a single email. I was told that he would have to contact the merchant bank and manually contact them to organise the refund and I gave him the change to prove himself as honest.

Ehh.. almost the same experience for me. I let tim take care of our Cpanel license, and one box got totally screwed up. I let him install it on another box, it was installed improperly. After a few times trying to get things fixed, he had staff from CPanel come in to fix it(Which everything didn't get fixed). He coudln't answer my questions and was very unproffessional about things.. So I switched my license. Requested a refund, and never got one to this date... I told him I wouldn't post anything on these boards. But he also said he'd give me a refund.

looks like from the amount of bad posts that tim and his business paradise designs is getting a bad rep in here!! :eek:

Time for a red card?

Surely there must be a way that providers can sell for less than the contract stipulates. For instance Nocster sells them for $19.95.. there must be some way arround it? or is that just because Nick is on the burst payroll? If that is the case.. seems like its a little unfair and uncompetative of DarkORB to do something like that.

Actually, that type of licensing be normally considered illegal anyway due to price fixing and trade laws in certain countries and seen as anti-competitive practices.

courts have held time and time again that a supplier can set a max and min price for their product. For instance Maytag washers and dryers, set the min price for all retailers that is why you never see huge discounts on them. There was a court challenge in Texas about 2 years ago by a large discount chain that lost the right to carry Maytag because they cut the prices below the min. Maytag won.

Hence why i asked the question as in Australia, the Trades Practices Act denoted that this would be anti-competitive behaviour if there was a set price that a retailer can sell at. The sections this would breach would be;

s48 - Resale Price Maintenance

This disallows any company or business from setting a minimum price that the reseller must not sell below. The only exception is franchises which comply with different laws due to their legal status.

Originally posted by MKelso
Actually, that type of licensing be normally considered illegal anyway due to price fixing and trade laws in certain countries and seen as anti-competitive practices.

No, it would only be considered illegal if CPanel conspires with OTHER control panel makers to all set the same minimum price for all of their products.

The $65 minimum only applies to licenses sold to a person outside of the distributors own datacenter.

So since the server you are buying is inside of nocster's datacenter they can sell it to you at any price they want to, or give it away for free for that matter, they still however pay a minimum charge of $25 per license. Which is the lowest anyone is allowed to get it at.

The $65 per license minimum comes into play when your selling the license to someone outside your own datacenter.

That would then be Price Fixing under S4aA, 45C, which is a contract , agreement or understanding between one or more competitors which has the effect of fixing prices for goods or services. Resale Price Maintenance relates to situations where the supplier tries to impose price fixing on its distributors/agents/resellers, who distribute their products or services.
Once again, this is Australian Laws and would not see laws being too far apart on this issue, realistically considering its monopolistic consequences if not in place.

Would think that resellers of hosting would be then able to be put on resale limits then also if that is the case, and laws there are not so protective of the consumer.

Cpanel and it's distributors doesn't fall into the category of "one or more competitors", since they are reselling Cpanels product. I think price fixing would be if CPanel, Plesk, and Ensim all got together and said "this is the minimum price we'll allow anyone to sell our products at."

Oh my God! I usually never jump into such threads but after reading all the threads about Tim and PD I am begining to get a flashback about threads of Technohosts (aka Chris Gentile). This is exactly how Chris Gentile used to behave. Tim are you sure you aren't related to him? :D

realistically considering its monopolistic consequences if not in place.

Like allot of laws this one has it's intended purpose which is to foster competition, but it also has it's bad side, which is that the big guys who can afford to then are able to sell something at cost and the little guy can't compete so they goes out of business leaving a monopoly anyway.

I think the US law allows for a better balance in that if a supplier or manufacturer sets a min price it has to be the same for all no matter the size.

Are these threads about Tim a surprise ?:rolleyes:

I mean after the design deal went sour , I broke all ties with him and asked him nicely for SSH access so I could move some stuff and tranfer it to my new server. He told me he didn't know or think so cause I had ruined his bussiness and I might do something to the server to harm his bussiness :eek:

I know he is young cause several people have said so and I also heard from some other reputable people his uncle signs all his contracts, and he still continues to play the age game :stickout

I am not really here to bash or debate this issue really but now were starting to see more and more Threads about Tim and his bussiness ethics .

Am I surprised these post are popping up like fresh spring flowers ? NO

Well, just got off the phone with Nick.

I guess I need to apologize for being incorrect on this one.

However, also a note from DarkORB. Nick wanted me to make clear that he apologizes for any confusion the email may have made with regards to the discounts and any further emails he sends out will more clearly define what can and cannot be done during the sale.

Also, Mkelso, as far as your license goes. The reason you did not get it was from what I heard tim processed the license with powersurge too late in the day. So by the time they added the license the sale was over and tim was too little of a man to honor the license he had with you because he was not ontop of things.

Anyhow, I apologize for being incorrect but i'm sure you can see where my confusion came from on this issue.

That isn't why. You're incorrect. I wasn't at home at the end of the e-mail she send to add the license and I still had time left to process the license but she didn't want it cause I didn't reply to her email soon enough.

This matter is solved and should be closed now. I believe.

Your site is purty.

Well, it was a few issues apart from not hearing anything regarding an issue that i felt was important that made me cancel and Tim has now stated by email that he has put a refund through back on my credit card which i will wait to come through.

This thread is finished I think finally...

Thank You :D I'm Glad you think our site is purty :). It is in the process of under going a redesign actually.

Originally posted by DanielP
Well, just got off the phone with Nick. . . . . . .It would have been nice if Nick could have addressed this thread. Did he mention whether he has intentions to?

No, I don't think he intends to adress the thread. There's nothing left to say really. I already mentioned what he wished to be said thats about it..

So basically we find out he was able to offer CPanel at those prices, and you were wrong in accusing him of breaking the contract and lieing repeatedly.
If I didn't read the whole thread, I would think Tim had done something wrong.

You seem too eager to take Tim down. I really do think your posts should be edited/deleted and this thread should be too. Maybe even to just hide the way you acted the whole time.

It's sad to see posts like this on WHT everyday.

Originally posted by Get-Hosted.com
So basically we find out he was able to offer CPanel at those prices, and you were wrong in accusing him of breaking the contract and lieing repeatedly.
If I didn't read the whole thread, I would think Tim had done something wrong.

You seem too eager to take Tim down. I really do think your posts should be edited/deleted and this thread should be too. Maybe even to just hide the way you acted the whole time.

It's sad to see posts like this on WHT everyday. He made a mistake that he apologized for, get over it. Tim has been in so much crap lately, and everyone wants a peice of him, I guess Daniel did too, but it's over now, so leave it behind you.

People are all to eager to jump off the bandwagon and put other peoples business down these days. :rolleyes:

/me hopes Tim will release the new site soon cos that is purty! :D

Sorry, but I gave enough time for any resolution to be undertaken and it was not something that I wanted to do by posting about the problems I had with Paradise-Designs. It was unfortunate that it came to this method in order to attain any sort of resolution which differs greatly from just trying to run anybody down.

Some do leap before looking then have situations where foot in mouth does occur, yet some do it intentionally. This issue was neither but do see this as a sad state of affairs that my post was hijacked by an issue that should have been dealt with by CPanel Distributors and DarkOrb off this board.

Tim has stated that he would place the refund through which should have been done now and therefore this matter should be closed on Tim fulfiling his promise.

Mods, please close this thread please...

Thanks

Its ashame how many snarling dogs you have on WHT these days. Everyone bitching about someone else or some other business.

Kudos to Tim

I always wondered what Kudos means - everyone around here seems to say it :eek:

pweeze don't flame me anyone :stickout

Originally posted by MKelso
Mods, please close this thread please...

Thanks