Hey Guys,

Have researched the following extensively, and still can't decide. Once I pick one billing package I'll be kind of stuck with it... I'm thinking WHMCS has slightly more functionality... What do we all think?

Modernbill 4.0x surpasses WHMCS functionality - so does ClientExec. Alot of people are going with WHMCS for it's simple interface and ease of setting up but most likely will find over time that as their company grows, they will need a much more robust billing system able to handle the demands and growth of your company.

If you want something that will grow with your company, use software that is been put through the test with real world companies. Modernbill (I also like Ubersmith) is a great product that is rich in features. I would steer away from the v5.1 for awhile until they can get it up to par with v4.x.

I know this will be slammed - but when I see WHMCS being used, the first thing I think of is a newbie startup company that sacrifices function for simplicity.

Okay ... I am now in the dunking booth - grab your baseballs - and begin throwing them.

Hey love what you are saying, I think constructive critisicm is good! Many people will just say on here 'WHCMS is the best" as the reply. That's not helpful...

Was wondering though if you could be a little more specific... What could MB do that WHCMS can't? People say that it is good that WHCMS is so young and already so good, meaning that by the time it made it to V5 would be unbelievable, what do you think?

Possibly - but then - it's not there yet and you need something now. Play around with the demos of both. I suppose if you are looking for simplicity when hosting then WHCMS might be a product worth looking into. You should also be able to pull up some feature charts of both and do a side by side comparison.

What many like about WHCMS is the helpdesk option which is nice in some regards. I guess it also might come down to what is in your budget. If you go with MB, you will need to also get a helpdesk like Kayako.

I don't want to steer you away from WHCMS - I just think MB is a bit more powerful.

Have you not tried a trial version of each yet? That usually gives a good indication of which you like to use.

While I agree Modernbill may be more powerful, the thing that let it down for me earlier was the bugs in 5.0 and some features still not being present. They may have implemented them now but it is far too late.

Hey Guys,

Well in the comparison on WHMCS, it looks like a winner. Is it a valid comparison though? Legally they wouldn't be allowed to lie correct? http://www.whmcs.com/comparison.php

Hey Guys,

Well in the comparison on WHMCS, it looks like a winner. Is it a valid comparison though? Legally they wouldn't be allowed to lie correct? http://www.whmcs.com/comparison.php
Ah, you made my shopping a lot easier :stickout:

But I'll have to wait until WHMCS release their next version which incorporate tax system in the billing, as we're in Australia and must do GST stuff.

I would use WHMCS - I love it, and I do not like MB too much.

Hey Guys,

Well in the comparison on WHMCS, it looks like a winner. Is it a valid comparison though? Legally they wouldn't be allowed to lie correct? http://www.whmcs.com/comparison.php
Well, they do lie.

The following things ARE in ClientExec that they say aren't:

- Full Email Piping Support
- Announcements
- Server Status
- Create Reseller Accounts
- Product Sales
- Recurring Income Summary
- Support Tickets Summary

Well, they do lie.
Come to think of it same with ModernBill having these features that WHMCS says they don't.

- 2CheckOut
- Mail In Payment
- Announcements
- Every Page Editable by Templates
- Multiple Order Form Templates
- Almost All The Reports

yeah, there comparison chart is extremely "BIASED".

I noticed many things ModernBill has that they list it doesn't.

Some of it, rather than be factual, they list only what "THEY SUPPORT" so they don't have to list the others.

Take Fraud Protection.

They support MaxMind, well ModernBill doesn't support MaxMind but it does support Fraud Guardian......

You all have to admit that you have no idea when that list was made. I can tell you for a fact that MB did not support those things at the time the list was made. Thats because v5 was crap at the time (still is IMHO) and barely had any features when it was first released. Matt should probably update his chart or at least list the date of when it was made.

You all have to admit that you have no idea when that list was made. I can tell you for a fact that MB did not support those things at the time the list was made. Thats because v5 was crap at the time (still is IMHO) and barely had any features when it was first released. Matt should probably update his chart or at least list the date of when it was made.

Sorry, but you must not have any clue or knowledge about MB, because MB V5 was not the first version of ModernBill nor is it the only available "retail" version of ModernBill.

MB V4 is still available which contains all the features that they say are missing.

MB V5 will have, and already has 99% of, the features of MB V4.

If they are going to do a comparison then they need to do it properly off what "IS" available.

And I'm sorry to say this but I've compared both MB 5 and WHMCS.

If you are a small company that wants very basic AR functions WHMCS or WHMAP will suit you fine.

But if you intend to grow and need more indepth "real accounting" then MB V5 is the best choice.

Even MB V4 has more options and configuration functions than WHMCS.

And for that matter I'm not going to entrust a detrimental part of my business to company who isn't even willing to put up an "About Us" page that lists basic company information including a "Physical Address" and phone number.

The one thing I don't like about ClientExec is it's slowness in loading. I do have to agree with jerett, WHMCS is very easy to use and very basic for the "new hoster". Most resellers, or first time web hosting companies try to stay away from billing systems such as modernbill because they don't want to take the time to read a manual for each item, rather than clicking a few buttons and it's done via whmcs.

I've used whmcs, clientexec, and modernbill. I am currently sticking with modernbill because of it's flexibility and order form uniqueness. You can customize modernbill to the point you don't even know it's modernbill, rather your own system.

Both whmcs and modernbill are great systems, it's just your preference.

The one thing I don't like about ClientExec is it's slowness in loading. I do have to agree with jerett, WHMCS is very easy to use and very basic for the "new hoster". Most resellers, or first time web hosting companies try to stay away from billing systems such as modernbill because they don't want to take the time to read a manual for each item, rather than clicking a few buttons and it's done via whmcs.

I've used whmcs, clientexec, and modernbill. I am currently sticking with modernbill because of it's flexibility and order form uniqueness. You can customize modernbill to the point you don't even know it's modernbill, rather your own system.

Both whmcs and modernbill are great systems, it's just your preference.Can WHMCS be customised so that it is integrated flawlessly into your own website and the user can't tell? Or does MB do this better?

Not as easy or as well done. You will always be able to tell it's whmcs unless someone did some heavy modifications to the code itself (which is impossible as last time I used it most of the code was encrypted). Modernbill has different order groups use different templates (option setting but I like it), you can also easily change the table colors via the control panel.

Overall features on modernbill out number whmcs, but like I said if you want something easy to use that can get you up in running in less than 20min then whmcs is for you. :)

Hmmm well I basically wanted to set up something similar to the way you order hosting packages from Media Temple, I can't do this with WHMCS... Can I do it with MB? https://ac.mediatemple.net/order/domain.mt

Yes this is possible, it will take some knowledge of their template system and playing around with the tables but yes I'm sure it can be done. For the best answer to your question I would advise you take a look at their forums, their support on there is outstanding.

Thanks :)

Try AWBS
It is nott complex as Modernbill

Hi,

After reading this I thought I better stick up for WHMCS!

The following things ARE in ClientExec that they say aren't:

- Full Email Piping Support
- Announcements
- Server Status
- Create Reseller Accounts
- Product Sales
- Recurring Income Summary
- Support Tickets Summary

Full Email Piping Support - No, CE do not have this according to the features list - if an email comes from an email address that is not registered to a customer in your system then no ticket is created - that isn't full support - that's client only support

Server Status - Looks like this may have added something relating to this recently - can't find any details about it on their site though

Announcements - viewable to logged in clients, but not viewable to potential customers as in WHMCS

Create Reseller Accounts - couldn't find anything on the CE site about this one - I was under the impression from past users of CE that it did not fully configure permissions for a reseller account in cpanel

Reports - obviously there will be some similar kinds of things and they will change frequently but I doubt they provide the exact same information

I would also like to point out that should anyone contact us regarding an inconsistency in the chart then it will be duely corrected but the chart is based on information attained from the websites of these other products for their latest releases.

yeah, there comparison chart is extremely "BIASED".

I noticed many things ModernBill has that they list it doesn't.

They support MaxMind, well ModernBill doesn't support MaxMind but it does support Fraud Guardian......

As the list is a comparison of the features in WHMCS to other systems, I don't see why you would expect the features of other systems to appear in the list if they aren't supported by WHMCS!

Not as easy or as well done. You will always be able to tell it's whmcs unless someone did some heavy modifications to the code itself (which is impossible as last time I used it most of the code was encrypted). Modernbill has different order groups use different templates (option setting but I like it), you can also easily change the table colors via the control panel.

Ok, so ModernBill is easier to customise than WHMCS. So why do so many people choose not to customise from the default - for example your site at http://billing.selectbyte.com/ which looks the same as https://www.deftechgroup.com/billing/ which looks the same as https://illusionfxnet.com/billing/index.php etc... While it is true you can customise it, it is a much more difficult and complex task and for that reason many people don't bother.

You would much more easily integrate WHMCS into your website and it is designed for this unlike CE and MB which have "portal" type systems which require a complete re-work to make look like your site. All you have to do is take a look at the showcase section of our forums where people have integrated WHMCS into their site and you can see the ease with which it can match a site. I would say, and I think a lot would agree, that it's much easier to identify a CE or MB install.

WHMCS is very easy to use and very basic for the "new hoster". Most resellers, or first time web hosting companies try to stay away from billing systems such as modernbill because they don't want to take the time to read a manual for each item, rather than clicking a few buttons and it's done via whmcs.

So because the system is easier to use means it has less features? I don't follow that logic. WHMCS has many billing features - one time/recurring cycles, prorata billing, one time/recurring coupons, stock management, automatic setup on first payment, over 20 payment gateways, one of the most flexible invoicing systems, individual price overides per customer, etc... But just because its easier to use and you don't need to pay someone to install and configure it and take a week out to set everything up it's not as good? And here's me thinking making it easy to use was a good thing!

This is not intended to say WHMCS is better than any of the other systems mentioned but just to reply to some of the issues raised in this thread.

Matt

Hey Matt... Thanks for the post, Was hoping you'd clear some things up. Alot of negative opinions here but no actual evidence...

When will WHMCS not require register globals to be enabled?
Edit: I am not sure if it still requires this, it did last time I checked but it doesn't seem to list it as a requirement in the manual. I'll have to check this out further if it doesn't. :D

Hi,

It does still require Register Globals. You should just be able to enable register globals on the WHMCS directory using a php.ini or .htaccess file and then this will not mean you need to change anything server wide. The register globals security issue is an issue in poorly coded scripts but removing register globals only makes it slightly more difficult for a hacker - if they want to attempt to hack a system it's still easy for them to post information to the script. It's all down to what sanitization checks are done on the submitted data as to whether there is a security issue.

Matt

I wouldn't use none of these as they a bit to classical. WHMCS isn't that easy to use, well it is easy but doesnt look to good. I would prefer clientexec and ihostdev as they look really nice and professional and are really good.

No ETA on when it wont require register globals?

As the list is a comparison of the features in WHMCS to other systems, I don't see why you would expect the features of other systems to appear in the list if they aren't supported by WHMCS!


I'm sorry, but if your site basically claims you have "Fraud Protection" and they don't. That is biased and unethical. Your site also claims you have features ModernBill doesn't, that is flat lieing.




Ok, so ModernBill is easier to customise than WHMCS. So why do so many people choose not to customise from the default - for example your site at http://billing.selectbyte.com/ which looks the same as https://www.deftechgroup.com/billing/ which looks the same as https://illusionfxnet.com/billing/index.php etc... While it is true you can customise it, it is a much more difficult and complex task and for that reason many people don't bother.


It's a 5 to 10 minute job at most to customize the front end "IF" people choose. They choose not to, that has nothing to do with the complexity of customizing it.

It is not hard to customize that front page at all, but I guess you haven't taken the time to truly compare your software to your competitors.


You never did handle the issue that if you list no contact information on your site other than the site itself, not even a physical address.

If I have 1,500 clients and have a problem at least with ModernBill I can choose to pay to get someone on the phone.

Or, if I have a problem with that, I can fly to Kentucky and speak to them directly.

Aside from all that, I don't know which is better, but when a company lists "NOTHING" about there company and then lists a deceptive, biased comparison chart and even lies on it, I'm not going to deal with them.

I'm sorry, but if your site basically claims you have "Fraud Protection" and they don't. That is biased and unethical. Your site also claims you have features ModernBill doesn't, that is flat lieing.

Our site does not claim WHMCS has Fraud Protection and ModernBill does not. All it says on the comparison chart is that we support MaxMind and ModernBill do not. This is purely based on the facts.

It's a 5 to 10 minute job at most to customize the front end "IF" people choose. They choose not to, that has nothing to do with the complexity of customizing it.

It is not hard to customize that front page at all, but I guess you haven't taken the time to truly compare your software to your competitors.

True, I have never personally tried to customise it. I never said you can't do it anyway - just that it appears most don't indicating it is not as easy as you make out.

You never did handle the issue that if you list no contact information on your site other than the site itself, not even a physical address.

As many people will be aware, WHMCS is not the size of ModernBill... yet. We therefore do not have a business office and as the lead developer, I don't particularly want anyone turning up at my house with issues relating to WHMCS. We do have a company information page (excluding an address) - the link is on the sitemap page. We provide communication by ticket, email, and phone by request for any issues anyone may have.

Matt

Our site does not claim WHMCS has Fraud Protection and ModernBill does not. All it says on the comparison chart is that we support MaxMind and ModernBill do not. This is purely based on the facts.



PERCEPTION - the way Your list is laid out it "PERCIEVES" this claim, especially if it were a new user that didn't know there was more than one type of Fraud System (and yes this could happen).


True, I have never personally tried to customise it. I never said you can't do it anyway - just that it appears most don't indicating it is not as easy as you make out.


You know the meaning of assume, right? Most people don't do it because they don't see the need, literally. Ask those hosts why it isn't customized and most of them would probably tell you they have never tried.


As many people will be aware, WHMCS is not the size of ModernBill... yet. We therefore do not have a business office and as the lead developer, I don't particularly want anyone turning up at my house with issues relating to WHMCS. We do have a company information page (excluding an address) - the link is on the sitemap page. We provide communication by ticket, email, and phone by request for any issues anyone may have.

Matt

As a person who had never been to the site I found no information about the company, I haven't looked since you provided the link, but company information should be very easily found when looking at software that manages money.

They support MaxMind, well ModernBill doesn't support MaxMind but it does support Fraud Guardian......
That's another point. Technically, FraudGuardian *is* MaxMind. ModernBill simply buys a whole bunch of queries in bulk from MaxMind, charges an outrageous price, and labels it as their own product. Private label reselling :)

Full Email Piping Support - No, CE do not have this according to the features list - if an email comes from an email address that is not registered to a customer in your system then no ticket is created - that isn't full support - that's client only support
Which is exactly what some of us are looking for. I don't want non-clients emailing my support department.

Server Status - Looks like this may have added something relating to this recently - can't find any details about it on their site though
They added an entire module for this and even a cron service that will email you if your load goes above a certain amount etc.

Announcements - viewable to logged in clients, but not viewable to potential customers as in WHMCS
I beg to differ. https://secure.dedisolutions.com/publicAnnouncements.php

Create Reseller Accounts - couldn't find anything on the CE site about this one - I was under the impression from past users of CE that it did not fully configure permissions for a reseller account in cpanel
I believe support for reseller accounts was added in 2.6 which set all the proper permissions. The only flaw was that it did not set the disk space/bandwidth allowances, which was fixed in 2.7.

Reports - obviously there will be some similar kinds of things and they will change frequently but I doubt they provide the exact same information
So you're better because you throw in a couple extra bits of information?

As the list is a comparison of the features in WHMCS to other systems, I don't see why you would expect the features of other systems to appear in the list if they aren't supported by WHMCS!
So customers can make an informed decision about what WHMCS does and does not have ;)

Originally Posted by tomyknoker

Hey Guys,
Well in the comparison on WHMCS, it looks like a winner. Is it a valid comparison though? Legally they wouldn't be allowed to lie correct? http://www.whmcs.com/comparison.php That comparison is a blatant lie. ModernBill does have Announcements, bank transfer, offline cc processing, recurring income reports, signups reports. They are lying left in right in the comparison, as for the means of payment some of those aren't yet available in mb v5 but they are available to use in v4.

The only thing I don't like whmcs is that you need to pay extra $74.95 to remove the "powered by" line.

all i can say is don't listen to people, make up your own mind on what you want and WHAT YOU think is good for company because to be honest, no one on this site cares if you succeed in fact they hope you don't.

It all comes down to preferance and thats it!

I went from WHMAP to modernbill to client exec and now WHMCS and of coarse i like WHMCS the best.

No one on this site can flame me for that because i didnt say it was better, just better for me and my customers.

I had MB fully customized with kayako integration and all, the whole nine yards.

Sorry but guess what? it sucked...... And when you need help modernbill support is almost as bad as kayako support.

Client Exec would be my second recommendation to you.

and matt dont listen to these people especially larry who is annoying to no end.

your regular mr. know-it-all

I completely customized WHMCS in amatter of minutes and have it fully integrated into my site.

it was easier then MB, it would take some HEAVY modification to make the entire client login side of MB to fit into your site, WHMCS, nope easy they kept its very minimal yet very informative and easy to navigate for the customer. Yeah the front page is easy larry, wow good for you and them, you can make a customized login page. But once logged in it says modernbill all over the place and matt is right, everyone's installation of modernbill looks the same.

I recommend you go for WHMCS and if you are new in the business choose one of the monthly prices. And for $16.95 per month you can get a non-branded copy for your business. So when you start making pretty good profit, get rid of the monthly plan and buy an owned copy.

and matt dont listen to these people especially larry who is annoying to no end.

your regular mr. know-it-all

I completely customized WHMCS in amatter of minutes and have it fully integrated into my site.

it was easier then MB, it would take some HEAVY modification to make the entire client login side of MB to fit into your site, WHMCS, nope easy they kept its very minimal yet very informative and easy to navigate for the customer. Yeah the front page is easy larry, wow good for you and them, you can make a customized login page. But once logged in it says modernbill all over the place and matt is right, everyone's installation of modernbill looks the same.

Hades, you should learn not to personally attack others.

WHMCS has it's downfalls like every other product.

My biggest turn off from them was the comparison chart which in areas is false and in others is misleading.

Aside from that, we went with ModernBill for business choice reasons. We can reach ModernBill on a phone in a time of Emergency, WHMCS, ClientExec, and many others don't offer that.

We use Kayako SupportSuite which has consistently, and is almost completely now, been integrated with ModernBill.

And there are other reasons, but I won't get into those as I have no reason to.

I was playing devils advocate because they were trying to continue the falsity claims of there software compared to others.

They wouldn't simply say, Okay maybe we made a mistake and need to re-evaluate. It was "No, everything on there is the truth" even though some of it is blatant lies.

I really need to say something here regarding what Hades said about ModernBill's visibility of "ModernBill" everywhere.

MB 4 was hard to customize, I don't disagree there. But MB 5 took me less than 5 minutes to remove all ModernBill appearances on the "Client" end.

I had to create two logos and edit two template files, which were very easy to find and to find the spot it says "Logo" on it.

After reviewing the files I could take about 30 minutes and integrate our Header and Footer into the client front end without a problem.

It's turning into a battle. All against WHMCS. Well I'm playing with the demo, and it looks like WHMAP but better IMO. Going to try it out, then if all is well, get a refugee coupon :)

I am currently running the trials for whmap and whmcs. Due to my lack of knowledge, I needed minor support from whmcs. Even though I was only a trial version customer, the tickets were responded to in a very quick, polite and informative manner.

I can't give an intelligent comparison yet, because I am only trying the packages.

I will make sure I download MB to try it as well.

My problem is that I have 'no time' at all ... and so, the criticisms that whmcs is too simple and only good if you want a solution 'you can set up in 20 minutes' (i think someone said that) .... those criticisms are actually good sales points in my situation.

In any event, I thought my experience of the quick and helpful responses from whmcs support deserved mention (especially since i am only a trial version freeloader at this point).

Hades, you should learn not to personally attack others.

WHMCS has it's downfalls like every other product.

My biggest turn off from them was the comparison chart which in areas is false and in others is misleading.

Aside from that, we went with ModernBill for business choice reasons. We can reach ModernBill on a phone in a time of Emergency, WHMCS, ClientExec, and many others don't offer that.

We use Kayako SupportSuite which has consistently, and is almost completely now, been integrated with ModernBill.

And there are other reasons, but I won't get into those as I have no reason to.

I was playing devils advocate because they were trying to continue the falsity claims of there software compared to others.

They wouldn't simply say, Okay maybe we made a mistake and need to re-evaluate. It was "No, everything on there is the truth" even though some of it is blatant lies.

sorry i felt you were personally attacking matt and his software he worked hard on.

But i can see we are both better then that so no hard feelings?

And i give the benefit of the doubt because i didnt even try MB 5, i had too many problems with V4 and like i said support was horrible. I did a lot of customization that you admitted was not easy so upgrading to v5 was a task i was not inthe mood for.

So i scrapped MB all together.

But i will say one last time, its a matter of preference or what YOU need, not whats the standard or the best or what gets the more votes.

i say try them all and settle for the one you like the best, for me it was WHMCS, i went through WHMAP, modernbill and client exec to find that out.

sorry i felt you were personally attacking matt and his software he worked hard on.

My attack wasn't on him or the software. They need to truly evaluate there competition and put up a real comparison chart or not put one up at all IMHO.

If I hadn't seen a comparison chart that lists thinks like that one I wouldn't have posted some of the things I did.

Thinks like them saying ModernBill doesn't:

2CheckOut
Bank Transfer
Offline Credit Card
Announcements
Disk Space/Bandwidth Usage Import
Product Sales
Server Revenue Breakdown
Daily Activity
Documentation for Custom Modules (No longer paid, hasn't been since V5 was released)
Encrypted Server Passwords


These are just the ones I am sure of, I wasn't sure on the other reports and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning so didn't feel like checking.

Much of what I just listed has been available since V4 also.

My "ONLY" problem with WHMCS is this. It isn't a product I use or intend to use, so I can't comment on it's usability.

I can comment when people are comparing it to ModernBill V4 or V5 and making claims against what ModernBill can or can't do.

Aside from preference it also comes down to the direction your business is headed. ModernBill offers paid training in there software, telephone support if necessary, development services for custom additions into the software, and more.

WHMCS doesn't offer any of this as of yet, which makes a difference if you are looking at the long-term.

I intend on sending our accountant down for training at ModernBill sometime next year, I couldn't do this with WHMCS.

-- part snipped --

Aside from preference it also comes down to the direction your business is headed. ModernBill offers paid training in there software, telephone support if necessary, development services for custom additions into the software, and more.

WHMCS doesn't offer any of this as of yet, which makes a difference if you are looking at the long-term.

I intend on sending our accountant down for training at ModernBill sometime next year, I couldn't do this with WHMCS.


Words of wisdom ... this is a significant difference.

Modernbill gets my vote. Bit of a learning curve to anyone who has not used it before....but then again, what isn't?

I wouldn't consider WHMCS for a few reasons.

Functionality wise it looks fine although you never really know until you try.
A few of the main reasons are because I find it ugly and can't picture myself looking at it for long periods of time. I could probably skin the whole thing if I wanted to but why.
Another is the copyright removal thing. This really bothers me regardless of price.
I can't say I like the support center section at all and don't like being forced to use their solutions for everything. Again I could probably totally skin and customise it but that's more work than should be required.

MBv4 will do everything I need fairly easily now. I don't think I'll be upgrading to v5 though so switching is going to happen sometime soon.
It looks like I'll end up going with CE when I do switch.

MBv4 will do everything I need fairly easily now. I don't think I'll be upgrading to v5 though so switching is going to happen sometime soon.
It looks like I'll end up going with CE when I do switch.

Mind if I ask why you won't be going to ModernBill 5?

No, I'm not going to push MB 5 on you, but we are using it and I definitely prefer it as it has a lot more options available, is a lot easier to customize, and we are looking into doing custom development of some specific modules for our usage, which we couldn't have done easily in MB V4.

Modernbill 4.0x surpasses WHMCS

Incorrect
Try running MB4 on php5.1 or 5.2 servers. OOOPS, I'm sorry, it's incompatable, and the staff refuse to update it.

Now, let's take a look at another key area of billing, support:
Modernbill doesn't handle ANY sort of support whatsoever, at least any sort of reasonable support.
WHMCS supports quite a robust helpdesk which has (almost) everything you need inside of it. At least they are TRYING to help clients out

How about end user support?
Modernbill refuses to update systems, period.
Matt @ WHMCS will happily fix any problems in the code, whether it's because of incompatable php versions, script errors, or anything else. You won't GET that kind of support from MB.

WHMCS uses proper theming (smarty), making it quite simple to integrate your current website look and feel. MB? Not yet, not even with MB5. It's still not totally complicated, but it's MUCH easier to use smarty to do this.

The staff @ WHMCS will happily help you out with developing custom pages, integrating stuff into it is a breeze. MB? Not so much.

The staff @ WHMCS will work to help their customers, adding reasonable features and changes into the system. Modernbill? Not at all.

Modernbill has focused on growing their own business, at the cost of their customer's privacy, concerns, and suggestions. WHMCS, on the other hand has put their customers first quite well.


WHMCS doesn't offer any of this as of yet, which makes a difference if you are looking at the long-term.

Incorrect:
When putting together a secure client area, I put a question to Matt @ WHMCS involving development and integrating materials into WHMCS, and how to do it. This was answered within 24 hours, as have all of my questions been.

Perhaps WHMCS doesn't offer "paid training" because it's not needed. WHMCS isn't complicated to setup, modernbill is. WHMCS isn't complicated to integrate things into, modernbill IS.

At the end of the day, it comes to
-- Ease of use
-- Ease of integration
-- Support of product
-- Updates of product
-- Functionality

WHMCS does all of this easily enough. I had a set of tools designed and wrapped around WHMCS in a week (delayed due to my own programming time), and the support provided by them for this has been great.

Clearly, WHMCS will win this argument hands down when considered from ALL aspects. Sure, WHMCS doesn't support 100s of server modules (currently only two), but give them time and they'll support more.

In 4 years, I have never found a billing client as easy to work with, and I've tried a great number of them, from MB(4 and 5) to AWBS to clientexec, to many many others.

My attack wasn't on him or the software. They need to truly evaluate there competition and put up a real comparison chart or not put one up at all IMHO.

If I hadn't seen a comparison chart that lists thinks like that one I wouldn't have posted some of the things I did.

Thinks like them saying ModernBill doesn't:

2CheckOut
Bank Transfer
Offline Credit Card
Announcements
Disk Space/Bandwidth Usage Import
Product Sales
Server Revenue Breakdown
Daily Activity
Documentation for Custom Modules (No longer paid, hasn't been since V5 was released)
Encrypted Server Passwords


These are just the ones I am sure of, I wasn't sure on the other reports and haven't had enough coffee yet this morning so didn't feel like checking.

Much of what I just listed has been available since V4 also.

My "ONLY" problem with WHMCS is this. It isn't a product I use or intend to use, so I can't comment on it's usability.

I can comment when people are comparing it to ModernBill V4 or V5 and making claims against what ModernBill can or can't do.

Aside from preference it also comes down to the direction your business is headed. ModernBill offers paid training in there software, telephone support if necessary, development services for custom additions into the software, and more.

WHMCS doesn't offer any of this as of yet, which makes a difference if you are looking at the long-term.

I intend on sending our accountant down for training at ModernBill sometime next year, I couldn't do this with WHMCS.

Thats the funny part. MB does have a lot of bugs, high learning curve, many many more clicks to accomplish tasks, and personal support is only available if you pay for it.

I know MB as i used it for almost 3 years. We have no need to spend the extra money to send our accountant to training as WHMCS is very easy to learn right out of the box.

but hades is right, its all about what tool works best for you. Personally, WHMCS worked out a lot better for me than MBv4, MBv5, ClientExec, WhoisCart, and AWBS. Another nice thing about WHMCS is that i dont have to pay more for the product as we grow. With MB, you do. You also have to pay extra for certain modules in which you would get for free from WHMCS.

While i do think MB has some great features and potential and some really great people working for them. Their horrible UI, hit or miss support, and licensing based on number of clients, keeps me from using it.

You cant fairly compare v4 AND v5 features to WHMCS. v4 is legacy and no longer developed. v5 does not do everything that v4 does. When i left MB, they barely had a script for upgrading from v4 to v5 and it worked horribly. My migration from MB to WHMCS worked great and i was even able to import accounts from WHM that i didnt have in my billing system yet. MB alienated and lost a lot of customers when it released v5 and you cant say that didnt happen.

WHMCS does offer free and paid training. live chat support, and custom development.

Now, let's take a look at another key area of billing, support:
Modernbill doesn't handle ANY sort of support whatsoever, at least any sort of reasonable support.
WHMCS supports quite a robust helpdesk which has (almost) everything you need inside of it. At least they are TRYING to help clients out


What are you talking about here? The internal support desk which many believe should be seperate? Or the support that I contacted via the ticket system late last night and have had two responses from today regarding my problem?


Honestly I really wonder how there could be two so different views?

I don't pay for support unless it's an emergency, but I also don't contact support on a whim either.

MB 5 is very easily editable as far as looks go.

MB alienated and lost a lot of customers when it released v5 and you cant say that didnt happen.


I'm not sure I would use the word "Alot". There are many, many MB users who have stuck by they have just become less vocal due to waiting on things in MB V5.

You have to realize that Version 5 is a complete API setup and is unlike anything any other billing system has done to date.

People who understand this and understand the advantages and usage are still standing by MB.

Many who don't are standing by them because of unwillingness to change software and watching to see what MB 5 will be completely like.

And others are standing by them for reasons like our company, telephone support if needed, employee training, and more.

Aside from that, I haven't looked really deep into WHMCS, 99% of my criticism in this top is either people saying MB won't do stuff it will or based on the comparison list that was posted and blatantly lies.

What I do know is that I am working on building modules for MB V5 that will simplify my life further than any product currently on the market.

And after looking at some of the other offerings on the market, including talking to a developer who has worked with WHMCS, what I want to achieve couldn't easily be done with any other product.

What are you talking about here? The internal support desk which many believe should be seperate? Or the support that I contacted via the ticket system late last night and have had two responses from today regarding my problem?


Honestly I really wonder how there could be two so different views?

I don't pay for support unless it's an emergency, but I also don't contact support on a whim either.

MB 5 is very easily editable as far as looks go.
Larry, that doesn't make sense.

WHMCS is a complete solution, everything is bundled into one for the convenience of the user, if you don't want to use a certain part, you customise the template to remove the feature.

That's one of the main things I love about WHMCS, you can customise it to remove all the unwanted features and add any other things you want and it only takes minutes.

And if you don't know how to do something, WHMCS support are there to help!

Larry, that doesn't make sense.

WHMCS is a complete solution, everything is bundled into one for the convenience of the user, if you don't want to use a certain part, you customise the template to remove the feature.

That's one of the main things I love about WHMCS, you can customise it to remove all the unwanted features and add any other things you want and it only takes minutes.

And if you don't know how to do something, WHMCS support are there to help!

Actually it did if you read what Linux-Tech said because his comment was unsure whether it was that they "Didn't include support in the software" which they actually do, or whether they don't support there software, which they do.

So both his comments were false.

Unless you were referencing the "Pay for support" and "Contact support".

I don't pay for support unless I have to have someone "On the phone". If I need to fix something right now then I'm not going to do it via "Ticket Tag" I will pay and call them.

Other than that I don't contact support much at all anyways. I have enough accounting experience that MB makes more sense now than it did before.

As for WHMCS customization, some of things we are doing with ModernBill "ARE NOT IN ANY SOFTWARE".

They are not features, they are not functions in any of the software at this time.

To enable or disable anything in ModernBill is a simple "on/off" radio switch for the most part.

And if I get lost in MB I either look to the forums, the manuals, or contact support.

The internal support desk which many believe should be seperate?

Why should a client have to pay for two separate applications, when one should be able to do the same thing? A proper support system handles support issues via email, as well as providing separate departments for individuals to submit tickets to. Modernbill does neither.


As for WHMCS customization, some of things we are doing with ModernBill "ARE NOT IN ANY SOFTWARE".

Neither is firewall customization, server monitoring (as I have it done), logfile viewing, client server information, details, or anything of the like. ALL of this has been developed under WHMCS, quite easily.

Now, let's look at integrating things here.
For any reasonably experienced programmer, putting something into WHMCS is easily done. Modernbill will require learning their own API language, and the like.

WHMCS utilizes smarty templates and gives a full documentation as to how they're utilized in the system. By doing so, anyone can implement anything from a simple phpinfo page to something as complicated as firewall management, log viewing, server status viewing and the like depending on permissions, etc. All of this can be done with the basic knowledge of php.

Modernbill, on the other hand has repeatedly refused to implement something as simple as smarty in their system. In fact, they're now requiring that those wanting to implement anything into their system learn a CUSTOM API language, rather than utilizing the knowledge that is already there, and the languages that are already established.

When it comes time to integrate website look and feel into something (which should always be done with a support system), it's hardly (if ever) easy. With modernbill, it's a huge pain because of all of the external table calls, and junk that they throw into things. With WHMCS, on the other hand, it was as simple as cut and paste. Moving the headers and footers into the appropriate file is all it takes, no real worry about tables, alignment and the like.

From a development standpoint, modernbill just sucks to work with, no matter HOW you use it. I took hours and attempted to work what I have now into modernbill, and in the end, it just wasn't feasible or possible. With WHMCS, it took maybe a week (like I said before, mostly due to programming time) and worked out just how I wanted it to.

If what you're after is a billing client that can be built around, customized and developed how YOU want it to be, then BOTH are good. However, again, when it comes down to it, you need to look at the reality of things:

A>
Modernbill refuses to update mb4.x any further. So, if the version you're running now causes problems, or won't work because of critical php updates (ie: 5.1 and 5.2), you're screwed.

WHMCS, on the other hand will HAPPILY do what they need to in order to get things working.

B>
Modernbill requires learning of a specific (modernbill) API language to work with 5.0.

WHMCS, on the other hand will work with commonly available programming languages which have been established for YEARS, and provides healthy documentation and support as to how to do things.

C>
Modernbill has long ago forgotten about simplicity, and the value of respecting it's customers. Countless times individuals have asked for various modules to be implemented, only to be told "It is being worked on", and years down the road, it's still "being worked on".

WHMCS, on the other hand listens to and respects the valued imput of it's customers, and is a BREEZE to get setup. Unlike Modernbill which takes hours to setup simple things, WHMCS puts it all where you need it, and makes it incredibly simple to setup.

When it comes down to it, it's really not rocket science.

Modernbill provides limited support, if any at all. They refuse to respect the security and desires of their customers by not updating products . Setting up this gigantic beast takes a great deal of time to do.

WHMCS on the other hand provides 24 hour turnaround on support tickets. Not once have I had issues with a ticket being opened more than 24 hours. As well, the developer (or one of) has direct access to the code and is *gasp* willing to make whatever changes are necessary to get it working for you.

An example:
Within an hour of my obtaining the trial (I hadn't even setup the subscription yet), I noticed that things weren't piping right. After checking everything on my end, I opened a ticket. Turned out that there was a problem with my environment, and the setup I was using and it conflicted with WHMCS.
Most would have said "it's your server, we can't help", but Matt took the time to fix the problem, and upload the script back in working format. This was all done within 24 hours. You couldn't GET a response like that (for free, without even being a customer) from modernbill.


It's all about what you need and what you want to use it for. There is, however, nothing that WHMCS can't accomplish. Sure, it might take some time to work out the details, but that's nothing. Unlike modernbill, WHMCS has FULL access to mysql functions, user functions and the like, and unlike modernbilll, it's simple to wrap things into it.

A person can choose to pay for two seperate applications because there are people like me who personally would prefer that each company concentrate on what they do best.

I.E. Modernbill for billing and Kayako for support.

And yes, there is stuff that WHMCS can not accomplish without "MASSIVE" work.

You have no idea the project or the scope of the project I have initiated.

You have no idea the tasks involved or how hard the project is and how many people have avoided the project for all systems.

There is much more to the project that I am working on that you can know.


Oh, and regarding updating. WHMCS is doing this with there current version, has anyone asked them to do it for a previous version? Which is what you are telling ModernBill to do.

I'm not going to sit here and debate every little nuisance.

This started over falsifying information on a list comparing different products.

That falsification is enough of an ethics reason for me to completely avoid the company.

No ... don't stop ... i am about to make a decision between the two of them .....

These experiences are good to know about ...

You both make good points ... any feedback on the integration for domain registration ... the MB looks like it has easy integration with enom domain reseller account (don't have one yet)

This started over falsifying information on a list comparing different products.

That falsification is enough of an ethics reason for me to completely avoid the company.

Larry, the list was made a while ago when what is shows was correct. It was based on MBv5 because seriously, new customers would be deciding between MBv5 or WHMCS. It was unlikely for a new user to go to MBv4 so it's features were pretty much irrelevant.

Changes happens, things get added. Instead of moaning on about it, how about letting the company know and changes can be made?

Larry, the list was made a while ago when what is shows was correct. It was based on MBv5 because seriously, new customers would be deciding between MBv5 or WHMCS. It was unlikely for a new user to go to MBv4 so it's features were pretty much irrelevant.

Changes happens, things get added. Instead of moaning on about it, how about letting the company know and changes can be made?

Actually I just commented on it originally that it was wrong, then people started claiming that all of us who were claiming it was wrong were wrong.

So the dispute started. Which is why I stopped with the last post of the dispute.

As for which version, regardless of PHP versions, both MB 4 and 5 are offered on the site and still available.

WHMCS is doing this with there current version, has anyone asked them to do it for a previous version? Which is what you are telling ModernBill to do.

Incorrect
Modernbill was informed that 4.4 was incompatable months before mb5 was stable. They simply refused to do anything, saying it was "too much work".


You have no idea the tasks involved or how hard the project is and how many people have avoided the project for all systems.

There, you're correct, and truthfully I don't care. I didn't say MB COULDN'T do it. I said that WHMCS COULD, and it'd be easier.

Integrating ANYTHING into WHMCS is quite simple. All you do is add 10 lines to your script (top and bottom) and voilla, it's done. You can NOT get any simpler than that. Of course, you have to deal with the authenticating (simple session checks there), and the actual code, but that's it. Once there, you're done. It's so simple that even a novice php programmer could do it.

Integrating ANYTHING into Modernbill on the other hand is not. It involves learning MB's appropriate API (for v5+), modifying god knows what template file, providing no end user mods (again from what i've seen), and the like. It's not even CLOSE to as easy as modifying/adding WHMCS pages.


That falsification is enough of an ethics reason for me to completely avoid the company.

Be careful whom you accuse of lying. That "falsification" may have been true at the time the page was made, and the comparison may just be true. Before you accuse someone of lying about something, make sure they ARE.


i am about to make a decision between the two of them .....

The only way to make a TRUE decision is to test them. Both offer trial periods (though IIRC WHMCS is only 7 days). Test them both, test their support, their utilities, and their ease of use. Since you're a new customer, you're sadly forced to use MB5 which is going to be incredibly complicated (they never COULD make anything straightforward), so I'd suggest starting there.

Integrating ANYTHING into WHMCS is quite simple. All you do is add 10 lines to your script (top and bottom) and voilla, it's done. You can NOT get any simpler than that. Of course, you have to deal with the authenticating (simple session checks there), and the actual code, but that's it. Once there, you're done. It's so simple that even a novice php programmer could do it.


This right here says you have no idea what I am talking, what integration it is, or anything.

You seriously have no idea what we are working on for a project so you can not comment nor make claims of what it would take to integrate it into WHMCS.

There is "much more" involved that what you are discussing and you are laying claims without any clue what I am talking about.

I'm sorry, but you should really not make claims regarding things you don't know. You may know how to integrate this one script, great, but you have no clue of what module we are building or what it will do.

Nor am I going to sit here and argue the context of this whole thing any longer as I have better things to be doing with my time.

Linux-Tech, you should really look at the MBAPI then compare what it can do to "Integrating a script".

What we are doing is not "Integrating a script".

This right here says you have no idea what I am talking, what integration it is, or anything.

And I never claimed to, or to care, now did I?
Simply put:
ANYTHING, I don't care what it is, can be integrated into WHMCS. Will it take work? Sure, but ANYTHING can be integrated. If you can do it in php, you can do it in WHMCS, easily.


There is "much more" involved that what you are discussing and you are laying claims without any clue what I am talking about.

The ONLY thing I'm "laying down claims" about is that WHMCS can do it EASIER and better, and ANYTHING can be done in WHMCS. Whether it's getting data from a database, grabbing php functionality, adding/removing files, you name it, as long as it's built into php, it can be done with WHMCS.

The ONLY thing I'm "laying down claims" about is that WHMCS can do it EASIER and better, and ANYTHING can be done in WHMCS. Whether it's getting data from a database, grabbing php functionality, adding/removing files, you name it, as long as it's built into php, it can be done with WHMCS.

And simply put, we will agree to disagree with this one on a complete disagreement basis.

I'm not going to read the entire linux-tech rant. So one thing that strikes me is the fact WHMCS advantage is smarty? Well modernbill v5 uses smarty as well

Oh and I'm not some modernbill fanboy either I've used others as well and I think it's the best. I inquired to a few recently about issues I had with modernbill to see if their billing systems handled those problems (If they do they probably are missing other features)

So one thing that strikes me is the fact WHMCS advantage is smarty?

You can call it a "rant" all you want, but you're wrong.

Advatage WHMCS - Customer support which actually WORKS with customers and UPDATES systems within 24 hours. If they have to recode something specifically for the customer, then they WILL and DO.

Advantage WHMCS - SIMPLICITY . It doesn't take forever to get something done, it's done easily, automatically

Advantage WHMCS - SECURITY - Their products are updated when necessary for the appropriate php versions.

Advantage WHMCS - Ease of PROGRAMMING - 10 lines and you can add ANYTHING into whmcs' php system.

Advantage WHMCS - website integration! MB5 may have "smarty" templates, but it's not setup properly. A proper setup would require ONE update for the entire area, not 3, 4, or 5. With Modernbill, you have the order area, client area, and there were a couple others IIRC that had to be updated as well. Not to mention, of course, the always present tables mess w/ modernbill.

Advantage WHMCS - LIVE SUPPORT - It's as simple as clicking on their support image from their page, when they're available.

I could go on and on, but I won't. The point is that WHMCS has modernbill beat senseless, when you look at it from a realistic approach.

Modernbill has absolutely nothing going for it, except being bloatware. It's full of extra ways to make them money, rather than them actually focusing on what they SHOULD be, the customer.

You can call it a "rant" all you want, but you're wrong.
Advantage WHMCS - SECURITY - Their products are updated when necessary for the appropriate php versions.


PHP Security? How about security in their own program, last time I checked register_globals needing to be on isn't exactly the most safe thing out there. Considering register_globals will be gone soon I don't see them being able to support every php version either.

PHP Security? How about security in their own program, last time I checked register_globals needing to be on isn't exactly the most safe thing out there. Considering register_globals will be gone soon I don't see them being able to support every php version either.

well your wrong. register_globals are insecure only if used incorrectly, matt already responded to this question.

Register_globals wont be gone until php6, which is a long way off.

If that is the case then by enabling register_globals on a server what is to prevent someone else from using an "incorrectly" implemented register_globals?

PHP Security? How about security in their own program, last time I checked register_globals needing to be on isn't exactly the most safe thing out there.

This is a yes and no question here.
Yes, register_globals can be insecure, however in this case it is not. register_globals does not need to be on server wide, as has been explained, it can be enabled directory wide.
register_globals is ONLY bad if you don't properly sanitize your globals, and don't properly check things . If you DO both of these, it's hardly bad.


Considering register_globals will be gone soon I don't see them being able to support every php version either.

Soon = php6 , and we're a LONG way away from that. Matt's got the time to fix what requires reg_globals, and the beauty is he KNOWS it needs to be done, and will do it. We're not talking months, we're talking a good, solid year of beta testing + whatever time we're looking at in alpha/cvs here. They haven't even released an RC yet, so you can bet it'll be fixed by that time.

well your wrong. register_globals are insecure only if used incorrectly, matt already responded to this question.

Register_globals wont be gone until php6, which is a long way off.

Maybe there is a reason register_globals is gone in php6? Maybe because it's a bad idea to be using them?

I mean you can create a secure application with them on but you are leaving yourself open to many possible mistakes as well as security issues that just are not needed. Exactly how hard is it to be using $_POST['name'] instead of $name and $_GET['id'] instead of $id? The fact WHMCS does not appear to be super old development wise to begin with what exactly was the logic to not use $_POST and the other vars like it? I mean the feature was there and many PHP "experts" were screaming for everyone to use them.

I mean you can create an entire PHP program in one file without any functions if you want to. Is it right? Probably not

If that is the case then by enabling register_globals on a server what is to prevent someone else from using an "incorrectly" implemented register_globals?
There are plenty of things to do this, one of the best out there is the hardened php (http://www.hardened-php.net/) project, which will sanitize a LOT of crap.

Of course, as has been stated over and over, you don't HAVE to enable it globally. You can enable it on a per-directory basis.


Maybe there is a reason register_globals is gone in php6? Maybe because it's a bad idea to be using them?

It's NOT a bad idea to be "using" them. They're going to be gone, simply put, because of poor programming that doesn't safely check their code. Unfortunately, as will always happen, the few individuals will ruin it for the rest of the world.


Of course, like I said, this is php6, which hasn't even hit rc state yet (I'm not even sure about beta), at least a year down the road.

You want to address my entire post such as maybe this part?


I mean you can create a secure application with them on but you are leaving yourself open to many possible mistakes as well as security issues that just are not needed. Exactly how hard is it to be using $_POST['name'] instead of $name and $_GET['id'] instead of $id? The fact WHMCS does not appear to be super old development wise to begin with what exactly was the logic to not use $_POST and the other vars like it? I mean the feature was there and many PHP "experts" were screaming for everyone to use them.

To addon to Tony's post, not only will it be depreciated in the future, it is DISABLED by default for a reason.. theres no argument to justify enabling it so a script (a "secure" script at that) won't break.

You want to address my entire post such as maybe this part?
Simply put: it's not worth addressing, and HAS been addressed before.
Since you have no clue why Matt is using globals, you can't state that this is why he is. Of course, common sense says to use $_POST['var'] , but sometimes globals ARE necessary


it is DISABLED by default for a reason.

I never said it wasn't.
The point is that it's NOT disabled because "globals are bad". It was disabled by default for the same reason that it's being taken out. Idiots are coding unsafe globals, and not checking things. This is POOR CODING, it doesn't mean globals are bad, it means people don't know how to code properly.

Globals, in and of themselves, from time to time are necessary. They save hours of work. If they're used PROPERLY, then there are no issues

Modernbill has absolutely nothing going for it, except being bloatware. It's full of extra ways to make them money, rather than them actually focusing on what they SHOULD be, the customer.

I 2nd to above, modernbill is the worst to have.
if you use modernbill is better to just close your business.

So when exactly are globals necessary? I mean php6 comes out what happens then on stuff where it is necessary?

I 2nd to above, modernbill is the worst to have.
if you use modernbill is better to just close your business.

agreed! i tried them all, modernbill wasn't even in the top 3

Trying to get get back on subject... does anyone know if WHMCS is a team of people or just a one man show?

I know ModernBill has a couple developers and at least one billing and sales person. I was wondering if WHMCS as a company has many people involved? I only know of Matt and the 2 times i've contacted WHMCS i've only been responded to by Matt in both a sales and support ticket.

WHMCS. Modernbill's new V5 and client system is horrible. Can't stand it. WHMCS is nice, has lots of features, free fraud protection etc, and is VERY easy to customize.

There client interface is horrible? That would be a matter of opinion since my opinion is the interface is laid out nice and simple and easy to use.

As for employees for ModernBill they have 7 developers that I know of along with 3 sales staff I know of, 2 in billing, 1 in Q&A, 2 in support.

That is just the staff I'm sure they have.

Trying to get get back on subject... does anyone know if WHMCS is a team of people or just a one man show?

I've dealt with one other individual in their support "chat" (something I've yet to see MB integrate), so it's definitely not just a one person show over there. It might not be as BIG as modernbill, but given the response and resolution times of Matt, I'd say it's just as big as he needs it to be.

Well, they do lie.

The following things ARE in ClientExec that they say aren't:

- Full Email Piping Support
- Announcements
- Server Status
- Create Reseller Accounts
- Product Sales
- Recurring Income Summary
- Support Tickets Summary

Yes, in fact... if I recall correctly... in CE you can reply to support tickets by email (as an admin) and they will automatically be added to the ticketing system as a support reply -- while WHMCS requires you to login to the interface.

That being said -- that the chart may not be correct -- I still prefer WHMCS. Those who say it is a "baby" package and you will outgrow it .... are incorrect. ModernBill can't be compared to WHMCS in terms of Power -- sure, Modern Bill wins. But for most all needs.... and simplicity... WHMCS is outstanding.

Best of all -- the future is bright. The software is growing strong -- and is under heavy development.

The licensing concerns have now been addressed, and I have NO RELUCTANCY recommending this package to anyone and everyone.

Here is a good question for any "BILLING" software.

If you have 5,000+ clients in the software and an in-house book keeper or accountant and they were dealing with the software would it be able to do all the reports and Accounts Receivable (Because that is what billing is) that they want and need?

If the answer is "NO", which it is with many (I'm not going to debate which ones) then you either plan to remain a smaller firm, which there is nothing wrong with that, or you will outgrow the software.

Am currently using MB & WHMCS, MB is currently being used to host a 4000+ client base for our sister company, its great but not as good as WHMCS.

I have been using MB for around 1 1/2 years without fault (many bugs but nothing major). I plan to switch in the new year to WHMCS from MB (sister company).

I have been using WHMCS for around 8 months now & its great, when we contact Matt (WHMCS) with any problems hes right on the job, no messing. Yes, WHMCS might not be big yet but I expect it to grow very rapidly due to the outstanding work Matt does.

You always expect an update within one month of the previous one, now that's fast development for you, he will also add any module for you (if acceptable).

WHMCS isn't just for start-up hosts, it will work with any provider big or small, the feature list is amazing. So easy to edit & the licensing costs are great too.

Form the feedback from our clients they love it, the whole client end looks very good & easy to use, the client end to help desk is also very good & the invoice layout is great.

It is one whole solution, its cut our operation costs by 20% which has benefited us & our clients as that's another 20% to put into other services which make your business better.

I have so much faith in it we resell the system & we are verified resellers, this is something we don't normally do (resell software) but due to the rich feature list & outstanding support we couldn't pass such an offer.

I wouldn't of normally replied to such a thread but I am proud to say am a WHMCS user & am sure many others would say the same. People have their own opinions & I respect them, I can only bring my own opinion across to which I have said above.

Anyway, my recommendation is to try WHMCS & to Matt, keep up the good work :-).

Merry Christmas All :-)

I've dealt with one other individual in their support "chat" (something I've yet to see MB integrate), so it's definitely not just a one person show over there. It might not be as BIG as modernbill, but given the response and resolution times of Matt, I'd say it's just as big as he needs it to be.

That is dead on, while Modernbill may have a larger staff they don't even come close to the support WHMCS has. It's all about making sure there is enough people rather than how many. If you have 100 people on staff for support but it still takes days to resolve an issue (if ever) like with Modernbill then they need more dedicated people. Then again if you have 2 and an issue is resolved within a few hours then it doesn't really matter.

Here is a good question for any "BILLING" software.

If you have 5,000+ clients in the software and an in-house book keeper or accountant and they were dealing with the software would it be able to do all the reports and Accounts Receivable (Because that is what billing is) that they want and need?


So your saying your company doesnt use any other accounting software? While it would be nice if WHMCS provided more accounting features, i really dont think MB's semi accounting setup makes it so much of a better script.

Tried everything, and ended back with WHMCS. Support is just amazing, and you get a personal feel. Matt is very fast with responces.

The free fraud protection helps every one, and now with v3, it's like the best thig out. Most companies cant even compete at all now.

Matt is so quick with updates and so responsive that WHMCS is going to get very busy over the next year.

1. There are import scripts for the competitive softwares
2. The software updates/response to feedback is extremely quick
3. It is very easy to setup, configure and use WHMCS
4. Support for plesk just added (that greatly increases potential customer base)

I see some SERIOUS growth in their customer base. That usually has a negative impact on support (at least it seems that way for datacenters) If the current support keeps up with growth, the sky is the limit.

So your saying your company doesnt use any other accounting software? While it would be nice if WHMCS provided more accounting features, i really dont think MB's semi accounting setup makes it so much of a better script.
It has nothing to do with what other accounting software we use. It has to do with the fact the billing system should be able to do everything the accounting software does for Accounts Receivable.

Otherwise you are duplicating work across multiple software, which is just stupid and expensive the larger you get.

Hi, i look now for billing script, i tested> clientexec, whmauto, and in don´t like very much..

Several people/host run MB

Some tech tell me MB is very hard to install, to config, and in don´t try to used it, but today i download trial version, i can install, run, config, all OK in more less 1 hour, i found all i need... i think ;-), very easy.... click and click


after these i read about WHM... i don´t know WHM... i can see whm have several features: KB, support, download etc, all integrate, and can access with same user and pass


i know NOT integrate solutions is more complex ( and expensive for us ) to the costumer but i think each script is more robust / stable for example:

For me i prefered: LORE KB + HELPDESK ( PERLDESK / KAYAKO ) + DOWNLOAD CENTER + FORUM + BILLING SYSTEM ( ONLY BILLING )


What do yo think ???
( sorry for my bad english )

in more less 1 hour

It should hardly take 1 hour to do this. In fact, it should hardly take 15 minutes to set everything up and get it running. A GOOD script takes much less than modernbill to setup and run right.


It has nothing to do with what other accounting software we use.

Then stop trying to bring your "accounting/billing/bookkeeping" software into things. At the end of the day either of these solutions can be customized to write what you're after, so, please, stop trying to insist that yours is better, because that's hardly the case, as many have proven here. WHMCS has so much more going for it than modernbill EVER could.

Linux-Tech try making things state as "YOUR OPINION". I've been working at it, you should to considering your "OPINION" is not everyones "OPINION".

As for the accounting Book keeping aspect, you are wrong. Feel free to research how accounting (General Ledger accounting) is done and then feel free to show a way to fully customize a script that doesn't track it that way from the base to do so. Yes, it's always "POSSIBLE" but not always "REALISTIC".

That is dead on, while Modernbill may have a larger staff they don't even come close to the support WHMCS has. It's all about making sure there is enough people rather than how many. If you have 100 people on staff for support but it still takes days to resolve an issue (if ever) like with Modernbill then they need more dedicated people. Then again if you have 2 and an issue is resolved within a few hours then it doesn't really matter.
This is the reason that sold me on WHMCS. MB maybe bigger, and used more often than WHMCS, but their support comes nothing close to WHMCS. If the suppot and care for a product is not given, it will not do as good as one that is well supported. Matt is quick to add features and fix bugs. Just the other night I emailed him some API information for DA and by morning he had it setup and in beta. This support applies to everything. I have worked for a cable company that came into town and over built Time Warners network. The sole idea behind the company was to provide great support, and with this city penetration has been 75%>..

I downloaded both WHMCS and ModernBill yesterday and installed them both.

WHMCS, I uploaded this to my site very quickly. The install was very easy and it was easy to set up once you played around with it for a bit.

ModernBill, I uploaded this to my site tonight and it took a while to upload because there were a more files. The installation was a little confusing in one spot, but I got through it. This software was to confusing to set everything up. This software may be better and have a lot more options, but it is really confusing to try and get set up. I never did get it all figured out. I may play with it some more if I can find any more patients for it.

When it all comes down to it I think when I am ready to set up my own server I will go with WHMCS because it is very easy to set up and figure out. The support for WHMCS is awesome. I posted in their forums a couple questions and got my answers really quick.

Linux-Tech try making things state as "YOUR OPINION". I've been working at it, you should to considering your "OPINION" is not everyones "OPINION".

Try following your own advice before giving it.

that is what billing is

This is an opinion


As for the accounting Book keeping aspect, you are wrong.

Again, an opinion

Bookkeeping/accounting are not a part of "billing". This is often a totally and completely different setup. In most cases, even a different topic alltogether. In very few cases, they're combined.

Now, what is bookkeeping? The art of knowing where money comes in from and where it goes. In a nutshell, that's it. Sure, it may be a slight bit more complicated, but that's the general jist of it.

Accounting is the same thing, keeping track of said money, knowing where X comes in, when X goes out, how much profit you make on X, and how much tax you have to pay on at the end of the year.

The absolute beauty of WHMCS isn't the fact that it DOESN'T do this, but the fact that it CAN, very easily. When it comes time to pull up taxes in the next year, I will be able to pull a very detailed report of income/expenses out of WHMCS with minimal programming. To that end, I will also be able to pull a very simple report of who's cancelled, how much income was lost, compared to 2005, and store it any I so choose.

Will I have to program this? Sure, but it'll take maybe 20-30 minutes, tops. I've already done the legwork and investigation on getting this going, and getting it exported how I've done things for years, and it'll be a breeze.

Does MB handle this? Sure. Is it a few extra steps? Sure. The difference? WHMCS staff actually shows concern for customers and listens to their opinions. MB? Clearly not, as it's complicated as anything to setup (an hour to setup any product is WAY too long, and that's on the low end)
And yes that IS an opinion, but it's hardly MY OWN opinion, it's the opinion of myself and countless other modernbill users

CAN WHMCS handle 5k users? Most likely yes. In fact, it'll handle them more EFFICIENTLY than modernbill will, as less data is needed to be stored across countless DB's.

Now, I understand you want everyone to think MB is the king, but, the fact remains that it's kludgy, complicated, poorly supported, and too new.

Yes, I said it, MB is too new. Compared to WHMCS, MB5 is a baby. It's barely stable, and it's a whole new product. This means countless bugs, problems and more issues can pop up. MB4 would be great, IF it was supported, but it's not, and hasn't been for months now (obviously). So, it comes down to using a product that is barely 4 months stable, or using one that's been around for quite some time, and is excellently supported.

WHMCS is more open and easier to use. Im with WHMCS!

Hi All... Well I downloaded the trial of WHMCS and also ModernBill 5. Within 10 minutes I had WHMCS all up and running, installed on my server. It was beautiful!

I thought ok now I'll try ModernBill, so I installed it... 3 days later still trying to install it... It has way too many folders and my ftp just couldn't handle it! Once I had finally uploaded it to my server, folder by folder by folder, I went to run the install file. ZendOptimiser was not turned on. Ok got it turned on still files don't run.

Sometimes things just don't work out, for me ModernBill just didn't work out... It is hopeless and the support is terrible. I emailed WHMCS about a module I wanted added, instead of telling me to do it myself, they thought it to be an important module and 2 hours later added it! I love that kind of attitude...

ModernBill seems like a bit of a dinosaur, which seems impossible as it's not even that old. BUt it's true it's not using good cutting edge technology, the beauty of the WHMCS crew is that they are willing to learn, and listen to clients...

Anyway just my 2 cents...

I have tested WHMCS ver3 and everything was enough for shared/reseller hosting service, but one thing I did not like.. it was when you add addon such as dedicated IP and let customer select one package with this option, dedicated ip did not follow package's payment period.. like when you select 3 monthly on package, but dedicated IP has only monthly period...which need to fix like MB does it.. because it makes confuse customer.. when they choose paypal subscription .. it goes and back and goes paypal again.. and I think it is little bit annonying when customer pay next one because they have to pay it seperatly like one month later and 3 months later...

WHMCS, matt, are you able to fix this problem? or it is what WHMCS provides? and won't fix on ver3 anyway?

thanks

Your best posting that in the WHMCS forums mate.

Good option modernbill

My vote goes to MB5.2 or Silver Billing (silver billing is the upgrade to whmcs)

Can you point to the page regarding silver billing?

I have tested WHMCS ver3 and everything was enough for shared/reseller hosting service, but one thing I did not like.. it was when you add addon such as dedicated IP and let customer select one package with this option, dedicated ip did not follow package's payment period.. like when you select 3 monthly on package, but dedicated IP has only monthly period...which need to fix like MB does it.. because it makes confuse customer.. when they choose paypal subscription .. it goes and back and goes paypal again.. and I think it is little bit annonying when customer pay next one because they have to pay it seperatly like one month later and 3 months later...

WHMCS, matt, are you able to fix this problem? or it is what WHMCS provides? and won't fix on ver3 anyway?

thanks

What you should be using in this case is the configurable options feature as shown here http://www.whmcs.com/tour.php?p=4 - it's great for dedicated server or configurable packages or addons that should follow the packages payment cycle.

My vote goes to MB5.2 or Silver Billing (silver billing is the upgrade to whmcs)
Silver Billing is not related to WHMCS in any way.

Matt

Sorry, the billing system planned to be released will be called Silverstar and will be an upgrade to whois cart.

no no, I mean like

Product Addon on WHMCS, and add dedicated IP as addon and it has only provide monthly option and when visitor/customer choose package as 3 monthly, there will be seperated invoice for "one package + addon".. and when I tested it as paypal subscription payment, it when paypal's subscription page and another paypal subscription page for addon.. like that..

what I mean is it is good let addon option to follow package's payment term...

all I like on WHMCS, but I did not like that because so confused if I am customer...

thanks

I understand exactly what you mean! Product Addons & Configurable Options are ultimately the same thing, just configurable options allow you to bill the customer on the same term as the product while Product Addons are billed on the term specified in the setup.

Matt

I have pmed you please check..

thanks

Silver Star has been in the works for ever now. It is one of the projects much like WHMAP - it scares me to think what the support will be like or how ofter updates will be issued and how quick security holes will be patched.

No experience with the other but I can the Modernbill guys really take good care of their customers, listen to their customers and respond. Gotta love it when your app developer actually cares.

pmed you again..

IHubNet - Please stop telling the board that you pming. They will see it in their pm box - trust me.

Many people are steering away from MB for many reasons - some being the product rush out on v5 (though clients were pushing them to rush), support is slow or not helpful, prices, etc. However - if you want a product from a company the has been in the hosting billing business since almost the beginning - I would recommend going with MB (v4 for now). They will snap back.

MB is also (IMHO) much better of a product than WHMCS and has been tested in larger companies with well over 10 servers and several 1000 clients (not just domains). WHMCS is so new - I honestly don't know if they have been tested in this manner or not. I would love to hear if they have.

oh, sorry about that..

as what I heared about WHMCS, now it is like 4000+ or 6000+ clilents are tested.. but not sure what is true

As MB ver4 user, I am little worry about mb ver4 becuase if some API changes on server automation such as cpanel or plesk.. it won't work.. and not sure MB will response it that quick.. I mean as you know.. ver4 is stopped from 4.4.. even there are minor bugs/errors.. that's what I am most worried about.. and that's why I was looking for new billing system or upgrade to mb 5...

as what I heared about WHMCS, now it is like 4000+ or 6000+ clilents are tested.. but not sure what is true

Not sure where you got that information, but it's entirely possible, given the fabulous support they have. Support says it all. If the product isn't supported, it won't go far ;). IF Matt continues down this path of support he's on, he will go incredibly far


not sure MB will response it that quick

The flat out answer:
They won't respond at all. Just look at the security issues that have come between php5.0.x and php5.2 . They've refused to acknowledge those and fix mb4, even when it was the only stable product they had out there. This says they won't respond at all to CPanel/Plesk/etc issueseither. They're done with mb4, not even selling it any more.

In the end, it's all about personal taste/feel. Modernbill users say that MB is well enough supported, WHMCS users say the same thing. The register_globals issue is a non-issue (for the time being), modernbill is DEFINITELY a lot larger than WHMCS, but it's been around for a few years longer too. As well, it's more complicated to setup and use, whereas WHMCS is rather easy to address.

If you need bookkeeping for your system and can't handle php code (whmcs can do it with some tweaks), then go with MB. Otherwise, give WHMCS a shot, you'll be glad you did.