Ok let me explain, me and my friend share the expenses of our rackshack server, I never felt the need to get the rackshack id or password from him so today my server has gone down, completely down, I go over to irc.ev1.net and try to explain my stance but they wont listen, I told them to take any steps necessary to prove my authenticity, told them to plug the server off the network and enter the admin/root passwords I give them and see for themselves that I am the right person, but no, they wont budge.

Now its been more than 12 hours since my sites went down.. I tried to contact almost every person available in the channel and no one would listen to me, in fact they threatened to ban me from the server and most of them ignored me.

They know the server is down, they verified it, but wont restart it for security reasons, what in the world is wrong with getting a server back up? Even when I am willing to provide root/admin/psa passwords to prove my authenticity?

Following is a snippet of chat with RS-Donell..

<RS-Donell> customer service could verify your identity to our satisfaction.
<RS-Donell> but they'r enot here until tomorrow at 9am.
<Plot> that is not good, cant you call the no in your registered database to verify that he is out to canada?
<Plot> I really dont see how rebooting a server is a breach of security :(
<Plot> it is incurring us losses though. http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Scripts_and_Programs/Customer_Support see those two ads by kayako? thats my site thats on the server, and its down
<RS-Donell> no.
<Plot> cant you just plug the server off the network and try the root passwords and other passwords I give you that PROVES that I am an authorized person?
<RS-Donell> no. only the owner can authorize this. I must warn you. I will ask you to leave chat if you continue to ask. We have explained what needs to happen.
<Plot> Donnel, I know you are right at your stance, but you have to understand we are loosing business over here, and if you could just verify everything then everything would be fine, you are at a position where I understand you are not allowed to do it, but what if you finally see that we are loosing business over here and that I am the authorized person..?
<Plot> I hope you can understand what I am going through right now and bear with the frustration I am going through.
<Plot> the server hosts over 20 sites, activetopic.com, kayako.com, dooot.com, mindseed.com, jokeshub.com, myaimicon.com I cant understand why you think anyone would want a server to be down.
<Plot> Donell, are you there?
<RS-Donell> I've explained the rules already. Only the owner can request a reboot. Unless your name was on the account OR you know the rs-#### and password could you get the server rebooted.
<RS-Donell> Those are the only circumstances.
<Plot> RS-Donell: can you put me through a senior?
<RS-Donell> I'm a the supervisor.
<RS-Donell> the sup, i mean.
<RS-Donell> Plot, the rules were developed for a reason, and I'm not going to have ome of my tech get written up for assisting you. That's why I'm talking to you myself.
<Plot> alright, I can understand your rules, take yourself at my situation, what would you do?
<Plot> when you have clients under you, spent grands on ads, what would you do? would you wait for another two days for your partner to show up? thats why i am asking, think over anything, anything that can help you know that I am authorized for this, and I will do it.
<RS-Donell> it's your decision. The only thing you're missing is information that your partner has. If you can get that info, then you can solve your problem.
<Plot> If I could get to him, I could get him to submit a ticket. I am asking what would you do? I am getting frustated over here, not because of you, but because you are unwilling to take any steps to prove my authenticity
<RS-Donell> i have no personal opinion one way or the other.
<Plot> yeah
<Plot> so you are saying you cannot get the server up?
<Plot> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=437692&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending <- Look at my posts at WHT, I am not a hacker or anything, look at my signatures, there has to be something to prove it?
<Plot> I am "Varun Shoor" on WHT.
<Plot> Donell??
<RS-Donell> yes?
<Plot> help me over here, I am sure you can understand how frustated I am. what else can be done to prove my authenticity and get my server back up?
<RS-Donell> nothing can be done.
<Plot> so I have to wait and loose revenues? does HeadSurfr come into this channel?
<Plot> are you the most superior person in the channel?
<RS-Donell> i'm the top person here.
<Plot> heh, this is so very frustating
<Plot> can you call the no he registered with and then see for yourself that he has gone to Canada?
<Plot> xxxx xxxx (his address and phone were specified here)
<Plot> can you?
<RS-Donell> no
<Plot> Donell, why are you ignoring me? Why dont you see it, the server is COMPLETELY down, all sites are down, I am requesting you to take any measures necessary to prove my identity, take the server off the network, enter the passwords I give you, when you see that everythings correct, plug it back in.
<Plot> I never expected this level of support from you people, how else can I prove it to you that I am the authorized person, I dont see it, all payments to you have been prompt, everything in order, and from past 3 hours I have been in this room yelling, trying to explain and no ones listening, you just keep ignoring me.
<RS-Donell> sir, for the last time. only the owner can get the service you are requesting. (threatning to ban me, gave several warnings earlier)
<RS-Donell> The rules exist for a reason, and I'm not going to get disciplined for breaking a rule that iron-clad.
<Plot> I understand that, but you have to understand my stance too, a server is down, we are suffering losses, I am asking you to prove my authenticity, enter the passwords I give you (why dont you do this?) and if everythings correct, bring it up.
<RS-Donell> That falls under customer server domains. Only they are allowed to give the ifno you seek.
<RS-Donell> And, once again, that's done for a reason, and is an iron-clad rule.
<Plot> what a rule, why do you think I am here sitting from past 3 hours to get you to listen to me? I have had enough, I am going to post a thread on webhostingtalk.com and your own forums now, what a great service, keep it up.


What should I do? I cant wait for another 2 days for my partner to return and have the sites down, changing dns would do no good as it would take around 2-3 days for the changes to reflect and then I will have to change it back again.

I am really VERY frustated right now. :mad: :mad: :mad: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

I actually agree with Rackshack on this one. If your details are not on record for the server then they shouldn't do anything you request to the server. Simply knowing root pass doesn't mean anything.

Looks like you are going to have to sit tight and wait for your partner to come back.

It sucks but that's life.

I agree. I stand with RS on this one, too. I'm sure your partner could have your name put in the account notes somewhere. The fact is, policy is policy.

S

You are not right over here

I have tried to prove them everything that I am the part owner of the box, so I am eligible for customer service, which they arent providing.

You arent loosing business over here, I am, how does a COMPLETELY down server benefit a person? And what does it have to do with security? Really frustated right now so excuse my tone/language.

btw I am not asking whom you stand with

I am asking what should I do now? 2 days of downtime is no good

I Agree What If You Really Were A Info Stealer ;)

We're all entitled to our own opinions!

The fact of the matter is, if you go into business with someone, you need to plan for situations like this. Badgering RS support, however, won't get you what you want.

Good luck!

S

yeah right :eek: :bawling:

Call your partner in Canada and have him call RackShack support...

-t

you think I didnt do that? Called all the way from India and got his voice mailbox on his cell and I didnt even know he went over to Canada untill I called his home phone, he lives in Oregon and is out to Canada and wont be back for another 2 days.

I agree with thewitt, can't you contact your partner? Also have quite mixed feelings about this problem. Ofcourse Rackshack shouldn't 'react' if it is not the owner of the server who is contacting them... but on the other hand, what _harm_ can be done to switch off a server and plugging it back in. It's the least what they can do.

Hmm, oh you already tried to contact him.. hmm he must be able to reply within 2 days? This is some situation. :uhh:

There's another aspect to this which is that the fact that the server is down and they won't reboot it to even maintain uptime.

Many of you might have periods where you can't get to check your server for a day or two, and maybe even more. What this demonstrates is that RS will quite happily allow a server that is dead to remain so. Far better would surely be for the hosting supplier to reboot the server the moment that downtime is detected. To me, this flaw in the RS service is as much of a problem as the inflexibility and lack of common sense shown by the staff. There's a problem, and RS staff should go out of their way to fix it, and the bottom line is that they don't give a damn.

Their policy is a good starting point, but the fact that the server is down and that the authenticity of the request could be verified if RS would put themselves out, should surely result in a better outcome than what's on the cards here so far.

I'm real glad that I *don't* use RS!

yeah, talked over to a person called Brian, they still wont reboot it. :bawling:

Originally posted by Superior-IS
but on the other hand, what _harm_ can be done to switch off a server and plugging it back in.

A lot.

What harm? care to explain?

I agree with a:\

I don't think its bad customer service. Rules are rules. I understand what you're going through, but if you shoudl of asked for the rs # and password the day you got the server... Because you guys are splitting the cost, right? So if it was me you bet i want the login, doesnt matter whos name its under. If its under the name Rob williams and your name is something else, it doesnet matter, they wouldnt konw the difference.

I say sounds like you ran into some bad luck, and next time have the rs #

Yes please explain :). I already thought of several security problems, but those didn't make sense because the whole purpose of a server is that it has to be online. At least, that's what I think.

Oh and as far as i know, you can only have one name on the rackshack account. you konw, like contact info etc.

so what good would it do if you were giving rackshack details about your identity ? maybe im missing something

if the person who bought the servers name is rob williams and your name is something else i dont think your name or your identity means much. It's not like they will give you the rs # and pw right away after you prove you are really who you are.

Varun, could you post the ip of the server? that or pm me it

Believe me, the first thing I am going to do is get the RS# and PW, but I want this issue to be resolved asap, 2 days is way too much time.

PM sent.

Originally posted by Varun Shoor
What harm? care to explain?

Since Rackshack does not manage the server, they do not know wyhat services are running on the box. Improperly rebooting a server could damage applications running on the server...databases in particular are susceptible to corruption if a server is improperly rebooted.

If the server is being used to perform heavy calculations rebooting the server may cause that data to be lost. Firewall services sometimes do not automatically start up, which may leave the server vulnerable after a reboot.

There are all sorts of problems that can develop by rebooting a server improperly. Not to mention if I was the customer, and someone rebooted my server without permission, I would be madder n hell.

What everyone has said is correct. If you are not listed as the customer, then you are not the customer. Regardless of whether or not you are a partner in the business, or whatever, you are not the customer as far as Rackshack is concerned. You should have added your name to the contact list, which I am sure Rackshack will allow you to do. Also, your partner should not have started a 2 day road trip before running a new ad campaign on hotscripts (if its an ongoing ad campaign, then I am sure the customers will check back).

Finally, if the support person tells you the answer is no, leave them alone. That's the answer, accept it, and concentrate on trying to contact your partner. Although, if you must complain, please do it on the Rackshack forums, because that is where the people who can actually help you are...we are primarily going to tell you that this is your fault, and to suck it up.

The server is not running, its down, completely down. So there is no concern of any damage you are thinking off.

Originally posted by Varun Shoor
The server is not running, its down, completely down. So there is no concern of any damage you are thinking off.

Perhaps it is down, perhaps it is behaving the way it is supposed to. Support has no way of knowing without talking to the owner.

If I were to shut down my server at RackShack, and someone were to then be able to call RackShack and get that server restarted, I would be very pissed.

My partner has the RS account number and password and is just as likely to put in a support ticket with them as I am.

I'm sorry to hear your server is down. I really am. But unless you can reach your partner, I don't see where you have any alternative but to wait for his return.

If you have access to your partner's email account, you might be able to recover the username and password from the confirmation email. Just a thought.

-t

Originally posted by phpa
There's another aspect to this which is that the fact that the server is down and they won't reboot it to even maintain uptime.

Many of you might have periods where you can't get to check your server for a day or two, and maybe even more. What this demonstrates is that RS will quite happily allow a server that is dead to remain so. Far better would surely be for the hosting supplier to reboot the server the moment that downtime is detected. To me, this flaw in the RS service is as much of a problem as the inflexibility and lack of common sense shown by the staff. There's a problem, and RS staff should go out of their way to fix it, and the bottom line is that they don't give a damn.

<snip>

I'm real glad that I *don't* use RS!
As uuallan said, there are reasons why one would *not* want a provider to do this. If the client on record requested this and they refused, that would be one thing, this is not the case here.

Regarding this specifically:

"Far better would surely be for the hosting supplier to reboot the server the moment that downtime is detected."

This type of service is something you would get if you signed up for managed hosting with monitoring services, something that will cost you a pretty penny at places like Rackspace. When you get an unmanaged server, you get an unmanaged server. People seem to confuse managed and unmanaged servers here all the time. Even a managed server might not include monitoring services (this is the case with Rackspace, far as I know, that's extra).

Servers don't just crash for the heck of it. There's a reason and rebooting the server could very well be the wrost thing you could do. sorry, but I agree with the majority of the people who posted. Varun Shoor needs to get the proper info or have the registered client contact RS and request the reboot. The fact that he's not available is unfortunately irrelevant.

Let's move forward...

What should you do is the question. Well, what are your options?

What should you do is the question. Well, what are your options?


None, just sit back, wait for two days and see my business and clients go haywire and I dont want to do that :(

it's a bad situation, but, unfortunately, there's not much that CAN be done.

without beating a dead horse, your name isn't on the contract. the company can do nothing without hearing from the owner of the box. they have no way of knowing who you are and it doesn't matter if you say you're a partner. you still aren't a contact for the server.

it's a learning situation on your part, and i don't see how it reflects negatively on the part of rackshack's support.

sorry again to hear your server is down.

OK. Your question about what options you have is valid but unfortunately no-one here can help you (except the "read his mail" suggestion).

Sorry you are losing business.

But what I really don't like is the thread's subject

Rackshack - The worst customer service I have seen This is wrong and inaccurate. If anything you demonstrated their customer service is, in fact, very good.

Good luck on getting it resolved before 2 days.

Ok i hate to encourage people to lie, but call up Rackshack, get a different tech, and claim there has been a power failure or something of that nature. That might actually get them to look at it, it might just nip you in the buttox, but it's worth a try (if they think the power supply is dead, they might plug in, notice its down, resart it, and then say "nope, it was just locked"), or they might just tell you tough luck.

Only idea i've got for ya :(

Varuun,
I really feel for you.

However is I was a Rackshack support guy, I would really think twice before bringing your server back to life.
What if the server was intentionally turned off to escape an attack or a possible hack attempt?

I have had my fair deal of bad support from RS people (and, occasionally, of excellent support!) when we had a backup server there, but I must say that not knowing your RS #/password is very unprofessionnal and something like this was bound to happen :eek:

-Chris.

Yeah well, I have decided to just wait and see, been trying to contact my partner, lets see what happens. Thanks for your encouragement, I really do appreciate it.

heh Myles, I think every RS person now knows me so I doubt they would do it and besides they would ask for RS # which I dont have.

So now I just wait and watch for my partner to respond and get the server back up. Just hope nothings fried up because its been a week since I took a backup :P

get someone else to call :)

Originally posted by Varun Shoor
Yeah well, I have decided to just wait and see, been trying to contact my partner, lets see what happens. Thanks for your encouragement, I really do appreciate it.

heh Myles, I think every RS person now knows me so I doubt they would do it and besides they would ask for RS # which I dont have.

So now I just wait and watch for my partner to respond and get the server back up. Just hope nothings fried up because its been a week since I took a backup :P

Guess it's time to find a more reliable provider? *cough* :D

porcupine-

Encouraging anyone to lie or use deception to thwart anyones security measures is just down right wrong! No other way to explain your comment above.

We only talk/support the account owner. ONLY the account owner. We've been burned before trying to do what we "thought" was the right thing, overlook a security measure/identity verification measure, and we've gotten much grief from the account owner.

Hence, a very well thought out and conceived policy.

The poster here does NOT EVEN have the RS# and the password so that he can request a reboot through our automated system.

With that simple information, teh reboot would have occured within a matter of minutes.

Robert

Originally posted by headsurfer
porcupine-

Encouraging anyone to lie or use deception to thwart anyones security measures is just down right wrong! No other way to explain your comment above.

We only talk/support the account owner. ONLY the account owner. We've been burned before trying to do what we "thought" was the right thing, overlook a security measure/identity verification measure, and we've gotten much grief from the account owner.

Hence, a very well thought out and conceived policy.

The poster here does NOT EVEN have the RS# and the password so that he can request a reboot through our automated system.

With that simple information, teh reboot would have occured within a matter of minutes.
Robert

Robert,

I'm not trying to "thwart your security", im trying to help him be sucessfull without putting a tech at risk. Hence why i said claim the server is down, because then they might be prompted to actually look at it, and what harm can be done in bringing up a downed box (if its that insecure, it should be patched, not shutdown, shutting down a server does little to nothing).

I can understand why a tech wouldn't reboot a server, but if they thought it was down, went to it, checked, verified it was unresponsive/down, i cant see anyone not bringing it back up, but then again, thats just my two cents.

But you're absolutly right, he should have that information, but its not about shoulds/should not's, its about has, and has not :). Sorry if you took that as me attempting to help others undermine your security, just trying to give someone an idea that might benefit both parties (having some guy scooping up all your techs time cant be good for either parties).

Originally posted by porcupine


Robert,

I'm not trying to "thwart your security", im trying to help him be sucessfull without putting a tech at risk. Hence why i said claim the server is down, because then they might be prompted to actually look at it, and what harm can be done in bringing up a downed box (if its that insecure, it should be patched, not shutdown, shutting down a server does little to nothing).

He never said you were trying to thwart their security. He said that encouraging some (like Varun) to do it is simply wrong. And you indirectly (some may consider it direct) did do exactly that.

Also restarting a server even if it is completely locked and there is no other alternative is not the correct thing to do. Why? The answer is very simple and some good posts have already been made about it so i won't bother. :)

EDIT: Varun, I think the best thing to do is just not worry about how bad this is. I have had downtime problems in the past on different servers and I realized it wasn't the end of the world every time. I think it really helps to just relax and enjoy the day. You can eithe take the time off or plan on what you want to do when you get the server back up.

Hey your site seems back up ;)

yeah its all back up, I am wondering how it came, maybe he saw my emails. I will keep you updated, 56 emails.. oh boy

Yeah, I've also experienced bad things with Rackshack support...

For example, once, my server plainly was off the air... I did a traceroute on my IP, and found out a switch of Rackshack didn't work properly. I went into chat, they said I had to reboot my server... I did that, and the server wasn't online after 30 minutes... then, I went back to the chatroom, and they told me they couldn't help me and I should call customer service...

I called customer service, they said nothing was wrong with their network, and I asked them to check if my server was up, and their reply was that he didn't have internet access to verify the status of my server!

Sheeshz, a customer support hotline, and they don't even have internet...

Oh well, my server went up after all out of the blue after 3 hours, so I guess they eventually found out what was wrong, but I don't like to support...

I guess it's certainly "You get what you pay for" in here ;)

Originally posted by Varun Shoor
yeah its all back up, I am wondering how it came, maybe he saw my emails. I will keep you updated, 56 emails.. oh boy

Maybe, just maybe, headsurfer came to the rescue......... :beer:

Who/what is headsurfer anyway? Is that just another name for the President/CEO ?

Well from what I have seen, their policy is very inflexible.

The first thing I am going to do now is get the RS #/pw from my partner, they shouldnt have been that inflexible on a server that was COMPLETELY down, me having the root/admin/psa passwords should have been enough to prove that I was legitimate person.

But oh well, my sites back up.. I have four angry customers and I am figuring out ways to calm 'em down. Again Thanks for your help, it was one hella weekend.

Yeah, well, it's VERY important to keep your RS-# and your ev1.net admin password VERY close since they seem to attach much value to that...

Originally posted by blazenet
Who/what is headsurfer anyway? Is that just another name for the President/CEO ?

Originally posted by Dotcomsnz


Maybe, just maybe, headsurfer came to the rescue......... :beer:

Ah he didnt seem much interested in doing a reboot from his post, but if it was him.. then I would like to Thank him for understanding my situation.

:beer: :cool: :beer:

Glad your problem is solved... have a good one :D

... at least in this case, RackSahck is not to blame. On the contrary it is goo dto see that they do not give into something like this which could have been an attempt of hostile nature.

I agree fully when you say that RS-Support sucks but NOT because of THIS and it is not nice to post such a title therefore.

I still cant see how people see it as hostile attempt when I was convincing them that I run a site on it, showed them all my advertisements, was willing to provide all passwords and what not and I still believe their support has been VERY inflexible.

But now that the issue has been resolved, I would request the topic to be closed. No point in discussing it further.

If its costing you money why not just stop/halt the program that your ads are running on and then try your best to contact your partner for the information. I will agree that Racksuck has terrible support and even worse customer service but I am not sure what you can do except what I stated. Good luck.

Originally posted by web_res


He never said you were trying to thwart their security. He said that encouraging some (like Varun) to do it is simply wrong. And you indirectly (some may consider it direct) did do exactly that.

Also restarting a server even if it is completely locked and there is no other alternative is not the correct thing to do. Why? The answer is very simple and some good posts have already been made about it so i won't bother. :)

EDIT: Varun, I think the best thing to do is just not worry about how bad this is. I have had downtime problems in the past on different servers and I realized it wasn't the end of the world every time. I think it really helps to just relax and enjoy the day. You can eithe take the time off or plan on what you want to do when you get the server back up.

I was not encouraging them to "reboot" the server, the whole point of my post was to have them start a downed server. Theres plenty of harm in rebooting a server thats up, connected, etc. But theres no realistic harm in starting up a server thats turned off, there is no reasonable way to break a server by turning it on if its off, and rackshack techs at the console should have no issues being able to tell if the server is up or down :eek:, that, or by MRTG graphs, or by nmap, or at the switch, etc. My idea was to work out a solution that would benefit Rackshack (by not wasting so much of their manpower) and their client.

I just realized: what does the fact that you have root, etc passwords mean to them? If the server is down, they can't even verify that, can they?

S

Nop, don't think so...

Well, if you have the ORIGINAL root password, they should be able to do something with it...

For those of you who think there is no harm in bringing up a down server, let me propose the following.

I am in no way suggesting that this case applies to the current server down situation, but bear with me.

Suppose I believe my server has been compromised, however I also have a trip planned that I cannot cancel. I down my server, knowing that there is no way RS will bring it back up without a valid server support ticket using my still secure RS# and password.

I go away on vacation - knowing that I'll be able to deal with the problem when I return.

Now I'm out of town, unreachable (canoeing in Labrador - no cell coverage, no phones). The person who compromise my server convinces RS to restart it. They log in and steal all my customer's credit card info or install a back door for later, or whatever. Shoot, the person who compromised my server and then got RS to bring it up so they could install their back door could even shut it down again so that I did not know it had been brought up while I was on vacation...

Who is at fault here for the damage done while I was on vacation? RS policy states they won't bring a server up without the RS# and password. They were convinced into doing so by the person who had compomised my sever and had my admin username and password as "proof" that they were a valid admin user of the server.

Was no damage done by bringing my down server back online?

Remember, I am not saying that this case is represented by the above scenario, only that this scenario is not inconceivable, and certainly represents a scenario where bringing a down server online would be damaging.

-t

True, true, but that is the same fact as everything in life.. you never know something sure...

For example, when someone lost his password, and says his old email address doesn't work anymore. How can you verify that is the real person?

I don't think you can...

When we have to verify a customer today we simply call them on the phone number they have on file with us.

If that phone number is no longer in service because they have not kept their information current we have them FAX to us a legal proof of ID. Not perfect, but better than blindly believing that he is whom he says he is.

If his address in his account record does not match his FAXed proof of ID, we require a notarized proof of ID sent via surface mail.

Painful? Yes indeed, however we are fairly certain we are really dealing with the proper person this way. If you are simply taking someone's word in an email because they are being persistent, you will be bitten.

Identity theft is so easy today, if you don't protect yourself you are opening yourself up to financial liability.

-t

Wow, I'm surprised you actually had to post that... I'm REALLY surprised by people thinking that a downed server should be brought up by the request of just anyone.

I mean Varun provided exactly zero verifiable facts of identity. Even though his identity is worthless in this case. His partner rented the server...

I think he knows that (he ummm, probably read the thread with the opinions of all), and now the situation is resolved. Requested to close thread...