i just finished redesigning my site and when i looked at it in IE7 it looked f.cked up. i love ms but they should give up on IE7. but site looks fine on IE6. anyways firefox 2 is amazing. it has everything i could ever ask for. i love spell check i am the worst speller in the world.

I use IE7 and there's no difference in the way my sites are displayed in IE6 and IE7. What differences have you noticed?

I sure hope your code is actually compliant before you start cursing IE...

I sure hope your code is actually compliant before you start cursing IE...

Compliant to W3 standards or MS standards ? If it looks fine in Firefox and IE6 something tells me Microsoft is at fault for not following existing standards, it's either a bug or an other attempt to push their own "standards".

got screenshots/URLs for us to look at?

IE7 isnt very good,im not surprised certain sites dont look good.......


Good luick my friend!!!

When will Firefox become the standard, it works all the time now. IE7 can't even load ign.com properly! :P

I was getting really annoyed at the spell-checker in Firefox, would not work in UK version. Finally realised that i had to install a dictionary for English and it works a charm :)

When will Firefox become the standard, it works all the time now. IE7 can't even load ign.com properly! :P

What do you mean, ign.com works fine for me...

Firefox isn't exactly perfect and prone to crashing under certain circumstances aswell. Less said about memory issues with tabs open but not under use for sometime the better.

With proper protection both Firefox and IE7 are good browsers, as in Opera. They each have their good points and bad points and bits they can improve on.

ign.com works great for me, in IE7.

Well in my IE7, when I goto a review on ign.com, when you scroll down to look at the images, you can't click the "View Images" link, because it's all messed up.

Hmm. Checking back, it doesn't seem to be a problem. It may have been an issue with the previous version.

Sorry! :confused:

How can you guys even trust a program that doesn't provide its source to the public. For all I know Internet Explorer could be gathering info from your pc and because of it's relations with Windows it will be known as legimat activities...
I'm not saying that it is true, what I'm saying is that Firefox is better because I can check how it uses my PC to perform tasks by looking at its source.

all gibberish, if you can code properly your sites will look as supposed in IE7. Use semantic, valid html and css and be sure to learn about it's rendering gaps. Might take some time, but you'll get used to it.

I checked bunch of my sites and so far I do not like what I see in IE7. Yes there is an improvement as they fixed "some" of the old bugs, but there are loads of stuff yet to be fixed. I am afraid that they fixed some CSS rules rendering bugs that had no impact but we could "abuse" them to work around other bugs.

The things I noticed so far:

CSS that has to do with floats is screwed up again. It would seem there is no good way to clear float any more: "height:1%" trick does not always work as it did before and "element:after" is not yet supported.

filter:alpha(opacity=50) does not seem to work as before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not, but I did not have a chance to give this a second look.. and why not just make some kind of internal map for opacity:0.5 to that filter thing ??

ie7 is not even close to passing Acid2 test. I know that that test has no real life usage but it shows that developers CAN do it and it shows that MS developers simply CANNOT do it.

I do not know what the problem is, are their developers not competent enough or is their development closed source process broken or is their corporate culture ("We are MS and let everyone adjusts to the way we do things") screwed up and out of focus, but with unlimited resources they were simply not capable of releasing browser that is on par with other available alternatives.

I sure hope your code is actually compliant before you start cursing IE...

Microsoft doesn't even follow W3C standards themselves. I too have had many problems with IE not rendering my sites properly. They always check XHTML and CSS valid, yet IE always has problems displaying it. Opera and FF are fine though.

I been using IE and FF2, have not find any diffent. some time FF2 does not work, then have use IE.

I use IE7 and there's no difference in the way my sites are displayed in IE6 and IE7. What differences have you noticed?

There are substantial differences in the way IE7 displays pages. I was using the beta and went back to 6 because of it.

if you have a plesk server just load it up and you'll see first handd :)

I will try to get screen shots in differnet browsers. My site relys heavly on CSS.

ie7 is not even close to passing Acid2 test. I know that that test has no real life usage but it shows that developers CAN do it and it shows that MS developers simply CANNOT do it.

I do not know what the problem is, are their developers not competent enough or is their development closed source process broken or is their corporate culture ("We are MS and let everyone adjusts to the way we do things") screwed up and out of focus, but with unlimited resources they were simply not capable of releasing browser that is on par with other available alternatives.

Ofcourse they can do it. They don't have "unlimited resources", as already stated FireFox is hardly perfect and completely secure. It's not even overly "loved" in the GNU community anymore due to the problems with Mozilla enforcing their logo/theme copyright etc. Not that I like the GNU community much, or have much respect some of them.

How can you guys even trust a program that doesn't provide its source to the public. For all I know Internet Explorer could be gathering info from your pc and because of it's relations with Windows it will be known as legimat activities...
I'm not saying that it is true, what I'm saying is that Firefox is better because I can check how it uses my PC to perform tasks by looking at its source.

It's not true, if it was, it would be legitimate. Microsoft wouldn't wreck their rep, just to get information on your, boring computer.

Now shoosh, please. :stickout:

I just went to Windows Update and updated IE7. I think i had the beta one or something. But i looks fine now. IE7 is not even close to FF2.

IE7 is not even close to FF2.


In what way?

IE is the defacto standard and will always be. Personally i use firefox but have never had any more issues with IE than i've had with Firefox.

//offtopic Does anyone else have a wicked memory leak in Firefox (1.5.0.7)? Anytime i start it up it uses over 1/3 of my ram.

I have been testing both FireFox 3 and Thunderbird 3 alpha nightly builds and I like both so far, although Firefox only seems a bit more snappy, where as thunderbird is a bit nicer graphically and a few extra features. Thunderbird only crashed once, on exit.

anyways firefox 2 is amazing. it has everything i could ever ask for. i love spell check i am the worst speller in the world.
I must be honest in saying I can't see what the fuss over Firefox 2 is all about. So far it seems to have fixed a few problems which were in 1.5.07, yet there isn't much more to it than that. Everything everyone is going wild over has been available in Opera for ages already.


When will Firefox become the standard, it works all the time now.
It is unlikely that Firefox will ever become the standard web browser as it is highly unlikely that Microsoft will include any web browser apart from Internet Explorer with Windows. Additionally, I must say I've never seen a website which worked with Opera and Firefox yet not in Internet Explorer.

I have been testing both FireFox 3
Hmm weird, firefox 2 just was released. Do you have inside knowledge? :P

As this was how websites present in different browsers, moved to Web Design and Content.

I think IE will stay around as the number 1 browser because there are more people online that are not net savvy and many of which don't know why FF is better or even how to download it. Ignorance keeps IE alive.

To me IE is much like AOL as a internet provider. It's the "Dummie" browser for the net.

IE7 is nine years behind web standards. IE7 does not support XHTML, CSS1 properly, SVG, DOM from 1998. Microsoft stated yesterday that IE8 won't support XHTML in two years either.

ALL other browsers are reasonably up to date and IE7, while better than IE6, is still a web developers nightmare.

Take back the web. Use ANYTHING but IE.

Hmm weird, firefox 2 just was released. Do you have inside knowledge? :P

As this was how websites present in different browsers, moved to Web Design and Content.

It's not very different from firefox 2 yet as it's still in developement.

Hmm weird, firefox 2 just was released. Do you have inside knowledge? :P

As this was how websites present in different browsers, moved to Web Design and Content.
FF3 can be obtained but is beta and must be compiled from source, I believe.

FF3 can be obtained but is beta and must be compiled from source, I believe.

Wrong, it's available via nightly binaries aswell.

This might help:
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3

The only differences I see with IE7 is with my old tables designed sites, some of which don't display properly.

All my CSS sites look the same as they did in IE6, which all look the same in Firefox and Opera.

Great job MS, with getting IE more towards standards compliancy.

Learn to live with it, guys, IE is gonna be around for a long time as 80% of the worlds population's default browser! You don't have to use it, but you're gonna have to design for it.

You're going to have to allow for it. While IE7 is definitely better than IE6, it is still the worst browser of its kind on the planet.

You're going to have to allow for it. While IE7 is definitely better than IE6, it is still the worst browser of its kind on the planet.


I am not sure if you have downloaded the current version but as long as the sites are coded to standard there are not any problems.

And I think the last time I read IE7 was more secure that Firefox and less memory intensive. :eek:

I think the last time I read IE7 was more secure that Firefox and less memory intensive.You read wrong. IE7 already has new vulnerability issues along with a new long list of bugs in addition to carry overs from IE6. Currently, Secunia warns of 150 vulnerabilities compared to 35 for Firefox.

The 'memory intensive' part is a misnomer. FF will use as much memory as needed and available for caching pages. If other apps need the memory, FF doesn't use it and can run in a very small memory footprint.

In addition, IE7 is nine years behind web standards, can't do native XHTML, can't do DOM standards set in 1998, can't do CSS1 properly, can't do SVG, while ALL other browsers are reasonably up to date.

Hello, this is my first post, so please don't kill me if I sound idiotic. o.o

It might be with the way Firefox and IE handle CSS, if the Acid2 test means anything. I never liked IE, MS is always trying to push its own ways further with it, to try and kill everyone. Why else do you beleive that they bundled Explorer and IE together into one? To kill off everyone else, especially Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox and Opera. 100% of all windows users have used IE atleast once, and all of them have it installed permanently. That's hard as nails to beat.

If it works fine under FF and Opera/Safari [They seem to work the same] then your coding should be right. IE7 is still under beta, aswell, so that might be why it's so stupid when it comes to loading your pages.

I've read about browser security, and foir Windows-compatible browsers, FF and Opera are the most secure, by far [no one is really sure which is safer, and honestly, who cares?] and IE has a non-suprinsingly large amount of security holes.

Of course, 100% of the MS market has IE5/6/7, and 95% [at the worst] of computer users are windows users, and since IE has access to explorer and so a huge amount of files on your system, it makes more sense that focus is put to attack them, making more and more holes visible. The same would happen to Opera, Safari, and FF if they were so popular, but it wouldn't happen at the same rate and quantity.

Also, IE has been doing huge steps lately, and is either as fast, or faster than FF [according to howtocreate.co.uk] except in scripting, where it totally fails. And opera was said to be faster than both, but don't take that if you don't want it. I don't want to be the one who started a flame war.

Because IE has been attacked so many times, and thus is more vulnerable, and because it doesn't support W3C standarts, it is hated, and slowly being besieged by the joint firefox-opera-mac-linux-OSSingeneral communities. [Yes, I put linux, OSS, and FF sperately, so shoot me. Alot of FF users are on windows, and there's still OSS supporters using windows due to financial/workstandart reasons]

My, erm, conclusion of sorts: IE is slowly closing the gap, but is still crap. Stick with opera or ff, or another browser like konquerer. If it works in FF or Opera, your page is good, and IE is just being an arrogant *** of a browser.

Before I finish, someone mentioned IE possibly homing-in on MS to report what you're doing. They're already doing that when you install the .NET thing, and MSN messenger was supposed to be able to get your information and MS could use it for whatever it wanted, if it wasn't for lawyers using MSN messenger.

Cheers,
Joe.

PS: Poor Spyglass.

IE7 is still under beta, aswell, so that might be why it's so stupid when it comes to loading your pages.No, IE7 is in release right now and has been out of beta for months.

You read wrong. IE7 already has new vulnerability issues along with a new long list of bugs in addition to carry overs from IE6. Currently, Secunia warns of 150 vulnerabilities compared to 35 for Firefox.

The 'memory intensive' part is a misnomer. FF will use as much memory as needed and available for caching pages. If other apps need the memory, FF doesn't use it and can run in a very small memory footprint.

In addition, IE7 is nine years behind web standards, can't do native XHTML, can't do DOM standards set in 1998, can't do CSS1 properly, can't do SVG, while ALL other browsers are reasonably up to date.

It turns out that Firefox leads the pack with 47 vulnerabilities, compared to 38 for Internet Explorer

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/25/177226&from=rss

More:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060925-7818.html

Although this is one release back on each. I don't think it's IE7 and FF2

@drhowarddrfine: I'm sorry. I haven't been to the MS website for about a year [After an unsuccessfull attempt to download IE7 Beta3] and didn't hear from anyone about it being finnally out of beta.

FF has its problems. Hopefully the solutions shouldn't be too far off.

I am not sure if you have downloaded the current version but as long as the sites are coded to standard there are not any problems.

Bull, which standard? -filter:alpha(opacity:40) type of standard?

There is no clean way to clear floats (the basics of CSS) in IE. In old version height:1% worked and in IE7 zoom:1 and display:block-inline work in some situations but not all. By the standards element:after should work, but not in IE. So by-by clean css and hello multiple style sheets and conditional statements (which have to be in html and not CSS files) for different versions of IE and one for everyone else.

And I think the last time I read IE7 was more secure that Firefox and less memory intensive. :eek:

Firefox uses memory linux way (efficient way) and some people have hard time understanding that. If you let it firefox will use as much memory as it can for page cache. It will store all images from all sites you visit in your session to provide faster browsing. There are options to decrease amount of memory used but there is no really reason to do so. Firefox will use only what is available and not needed. Personally if I have 500MB of spare RAM and firefox can improve my browsing experience by using all if it, then let it be.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/25/177226&from=rss

More:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060925-7818.html

Although this is one release back on each. I don't think it's IE7 and FF2
You had to go back over a year to dig something up? Those reports were found to be misleading and false. I remember that goof on their part. '

Instead:
Secunia lists 106 vulnerabilities for IE6 (http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=statistics_2006)
Two already for IE7 (http://secunia.com/product/12366/)

Only 36 listed for Firefox 1.x (http://secunia.com/product/4227/)
None for Firefox 2.x (http://secunia.com/product/12434/?task=statistics_2006)

I always code for IE first then check other browsers.

IE 7 has improved 100% in my opinion

If you are just developing in one browser then start to design where your target
audience is.

If they are all using firefox then just design for firefox.

I design for IE only since 80% or more people are using that browser.
For compatibility, I don’t think you can get both browser look the same. I stopped with the headache and just designed for one and made sure the other browsers are ok.

I always code for IE first then check other browsers. Then you are designing to a bug and writing buggy code. That's why this happens:
I don’t think you can get both browser look the same. I stopped with the headacheIf you design using ANY other browser than IE, you stand a good chance your code would work with EVERY browser, including old, buggy non-compliant IE.

While IE7 is better than IE6, it is still nine years behind web standards. See my link below for starters.

I beg to differ,

I think I'm on the edge.

Its not about how your website looks in other browsers, it's about your market share.

If 80-90% of people are using IE I have a greater chance of getting a customer, if I code in example firefox then I have a market share of about 8%.

I may be designing in buggy code, but the people that browse in IE care?

It’s very silly to say IE has buggy code, because I can say firefox has buggy code because it does not look right in IE.

I don’t want to get into a debate IE VS Other. Each browser has its pluses and all these browsers are coded in different standards.

Research your target audience and design towards your market.

You will never have a website look identical in all browsers. Correct me if I’m mistaken.

Cheers!

GS

Research your target audience and design towards your market.

Well part of your audience will be people with disabilities. It would be rude (to say the least) not to try to make the website according to standards (not MS standards) that will make for better browsing experience for them.


You will never have a website look identical in all browsers. Correct me if I’m mistaken.
I have number of sites that look and work just fine in opera / firefox / ie / Safary / konquereor. I code for FF - which makes it work in all other browsers and then hack it to work in IE. They might not look identical but they sure do not look broken.

That is of course including average users who don't use the internet often and haven't heard of other browsers. But most sites don't attract those average users. For example hosting sites are far more likely to attract firefox & opera users so the percentage is much higher and you have to take them into consideration.

My coding is usually good, I don't have to often optimise for a browser :stickout:

Just to add to the debate, I check my coding in firefox.

I totally agree of what you are saying, It is about your audience.
I check my websites with firefox, opera, netscape and about 2 others.

I'm not going to be bothered if let say a pixel is off in netscape and it all looks ok with other browsers.

I'm like any other designer, that wants his/her work to look perfect.
I always coded for firefox before, but my clientel told me otherwise.

The main two i focus on is firefox and IE, but IE is #1 for me.

Regards,

GS

GregoryS, you miss the point. I am saying you must code for modern browsers first to make sure your code is right and then adjust for IEs quirks and bugs. I am not saying don't make your site work in IE.

I AM saying that if you code using IE first, your code may not work anywhere else.
I AM saying that if you code using any other modern browser, your code might work everywhere, including IE.

So the point is, since IE is nine years behind web standards, you can't rely on it to display properly, but it's easier to write code properly and adjust for IE than to write code to buggy IE and have to adjust to five other browsers.

By buggy code I mean IEs inability to render html, css, the DOM, javascript, etc. properly. ANY other browser is better at this than IE7.