Yes it's True :mad:

I paid Paradise-Designs.net On Jun 3, 2002 for this design :

http://www.paradise-designs.net/client/ihosted/

To be converted to my site name and format as seen in this final screenshot that I took : http://209.151.72.7/final.gif

the final screenshot I seen before I paid , and I was told 24-48 hrs to convert it to my site format etc . Well 4 days after payment and I had nothing to show so I ICQ'ed ParadiseDesigns on ICQ and asked what was up and still no word on it being finished on day 4 , so I asked for a refund. 2 days of heated disscussion proceeded and finally what I thought was a resolution to be paid today Tuesday June 11th as promised and still no refund.

The parties involed in this Dispute are Tim of Paradise Design a.k.a TIMPD on WHT and Tom of http://www.webdefinity.com who is supposedly the orgnial designer in which Tim of PD paid to finish this design.

Well after 2 days of heated debate and Tim basically claiming no responsabilty to the situation as the person I worked and made all the details with and even paid for this design. Tom of http://www.webdefinity.com I thought was a stand up person and said he would refund the money on Tuesday June 11th and the situation would be done and over with ..so I thought :eek:

It's to the point almost 9 days and they have my Money I have no design :mad: Isn't this fraud Folks ? I clearly stated in the payment on what the terms were on delivery of my money and what the money was for and now I am gonna have to waste my time it seems to pursue Legal means of getting my money back :mad:

If you ahve no clue about the total situation , here this should get you up to speed :

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53833

http://www.yaxay.com/yack/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3448

What should I do , go with my Lawyer or Wait on pay pal to piss around and pray for my money back ? thanks for listening to me I am really upset right now. Should I report paradise designs too www.bbb.org or www.fbi.gov ?
I know some people maybe like who cares , but when you steal from me , it steals food from my kids mouth too :mad: :mad:

thanks for listening

paypal if you do you are dreaming.

I paid a guy from here for a design only to be find out a few days later it was a rip he stole from another site and resold to me as his own. I even have the orginal designer backing me up. Paypal's answer if you can beleive it, was they do not get in the middle of disputes about the quailty of the merchandise.
I wrote them back and explained the quality was great I loved the design and quailty of the work it was just too bad it was STOLEN.

No response from them.

As far as Tim goes I think he showed what kind of person he was in the last thread.

Monte

well in truth, I believe there is another thread about this. But if you did your homework ( which is not easy ) you would have fond out that the designs take a few weeks unless he tells you otherwise.

that is what I found out seaching the forums about him.

Mike

I totally agree Monte on both points and I really don't wanna mess with them as they drag there feet . so basically I am screwed unless I wanna spend big $$ for a lawyer

ADEhost
the final pic is the picture before I paid and if you read some of the other threads I directly quoted tim on His 24-48 hr promise. this deal had been in the works for 3-4 days before I paid and that final shot is 2 days before I paid in full. and another 4 days of no contact and poor promises.

20571546 6/3/2002 3:34 PM okay give me a min 300.00 on the way

20571546 6/3/2002 3:37 PM you have cash

Paradise 6/3/2002 3:38 PM I'm looking

20571546 6/3/2002 3:39 PM LoL

Paradise 6/3/2002 3:39 PM heh

Paradise 6/3/2002 4:05 PM as soon as he comes on I will have him take
care of you



20571546 6/3/2002 4:05 PM K ..that would be great

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM hey

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM he is working on it

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM and said you would have it within the next 24 hours if that

how did you pay them via paypal, from your credit card or your bank account?

If it is by your credit card as much as I hate to say it, issue a chargeback. Personally I read every post in that other thread and think that it is crazy what was done to you. I feel bad for you, but I think that you do not have any other recourse but to issue a chargeback. If you paid the money out of your bank account, then I would advise you to call the bank asap, and see if they can put any sort of stop payment on the transaction. I wish you luck, but let us know how it goes.

-Steven

I wish it was one of those 2 options , it was instant transfer from my pay pal funds unfortunately:bawling:

In that other thread didn't tim say that you would be refunded today, on Tuesday? I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to search through 200 posts to find out if that is right or not. I would try to contact tim again, and see what he says. I have worked with Tim in the past and he appears to be a stand up guy, have him refund the money and the designer refund tim. See if that will work.

-Steven

I have already tried that too :eek:

what is amazing is he had money to pay for a project he had someone do for him at yaxay but yet he told me he didnt have the money to refund me my money.

Originally posted by phantasywork
I have already tried that too :eek:

what is amazing is he had money to pay for a project he had someone do for him at yaxay but yet he told me he didnt have the money to refund me my money. Hmmmmh :confused:

Originally posted by insiderhosting
In that other thread didn't tim say that you would be refunded today, on Tuesday? I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to search through 200 posts to find out if that is right or not. I would try to contact tim again, and see what he says. I have worked with Tim in the past and he appears to be a stand up guy, have him refund the money and the designer refund tim. See if that will work.

-Steven I read most of that thread, and I think that it was said that the refund would be made by today.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=0&loc=345

look through those questions, Paypal has protection policies for both buyers and sellers. I had this kind of thing happen to my paypay account about last year where several payments for a service I provided were in the process of a chargeback (it was paid by credit card tho) and paypal froze my account until this was done. They took away the payments for my service as well as the fees for the transaction on my side. Paypal only gave me a chance to show a proof of delivery of my product all the while the payments were for a service that I provided to a former client. They never listened to anything I had to say, and they said that a charge back was a chargeback and I had to contact the buyer to resolve the dispute. Of course, I contacted the buyer - my paypal account reflected a negative balance for about a month before the buyer finally paid for the service I provided for him.

I thought at that time, PayPal wasn't very good with seller protection policy - I am not sure that if this is the case now - but you can make a formal complaint to paypal and that should get things going for you as a buyer.

well I filed a buyer complaint with pay pal , I really doubt it will do any good but we shall see :eek:

I really think TIm thinks this is a game and he was willing to weasle his way out by getting tom to tell me he would refund me and now that Tom has fell through on his promise ..Now what will Tim do as I paid him for the design :angry:

I mean really if you fall in the store because the floor is wet you don't sue the Janitor , you Sue the company right :rolleyes:

Originally posted by phantasywork
well I filed a buyer complaint with pay pal , I really doubt it will do any good but we shall see :eek:

not sure what paypal has done to balance the protection policies for both sellers and buyers - but when I had the problem with a buyer and paypal, paypal just sided with the buyer even though I sent numerous parties at Paypal emails regarding the situation. The only problem I can see with the complaint right now is if you paid and classified the payment for 'money being sent for service' - for my past situation, paypal required me to send them proof of delivery of a product through a tracking number of some sort - for service, I don't know how paypal will ask for evidence of services rendered etc.

In either case, since you never received a design - you should get your money back within a week since paypal gives the seller couple of days to provide them with evidence of the sold item.

g'luck

Ive filed a paypal fraud complaint once before when I paid for a few machines and never received them. The buyer apparantly used all fraudulent details on paypal to register and emptied their account and broke off all ties. Needles to say they did try to contact the guy and get the money back but it was no use. They made several attempts though and I was happy that I had someone at least fighting for me. If the guy was still online at paypal or even had money, a card, or a bank account connected to his paypal account I would have received my funds back or at least a portion of them.

I feel your pain Jag , that's why I am not waiting anymore , or for any more promises of a refund .

sad, sad, sad:(

Originally posted by phantasywork
I feel your pain Jag , that's why I am not waiting anymore , or for any more promises of a refund .
Why would anyone risk their reputation for a lousy $300.00 ?? I'm sure there's a good explanation for it. But then again, I'm an optimist. :)

I have a general question, in all cases you have posibillity to contact your lawyer or to issue a chargeback, is it not possible simply to go to the police station?? Or is it different in the US?

Personally I think its sick that people are alowed to get away with this. However, for a very small cost you could take him to small claims court. Doesn't cost a whole lot and you do have to represent yourself, but it does at least bring it before a judge. I'm not sure of the entire process but keep records of the payments made and keep records of any conversations and promises on both the refunds and what was paid, present it to the judge, state your case and be done with it.

Angel, you could goto the police about it since its fraud, so I'd say call his local PD and if nothing else file a report about it as well as go through the process of small claims court.

Here's some useful information about small claims court.

http://www.peopleslawyer.net/smallclaims/

dealing with a minor 15 or 16 no one is sure which age Tim is, there is nothing you can do about it. You can't enforce a contract with a kid even if he lied and said he was 33.

Monte, he dealt with a "company" and Tim was the representative of that company. Not only that but I'm sure it can be proven that Tim misled people about his age. From what I understand someone else signs for Tim as far as the company goes, which means there is a liable party involved, and then again, with the court system now a days you could probably sue his parents for being negligent of their child’s fraudulent activities. Stranger things have happened. So please, none of that "he's a kid he can't be touched" crap. He committed a crime, its called fraud, period. It’s really simple.

Ok well that was a neat search. Paradise Design's isn't a registered company, either Inc or LLC in the state of California.. Which means if they are Inc'd or LLC'd anywhere else they are operating illegally within CA (if I remember the CA laws correctly foreign corporations with a nexus within CA must register with the state). Of course he could just have a local county license. I'll check but I doubt they have that information online but we'll see.

On another note there is a "PARADISE DESIGNS, INC." In CA so me thinks someone is infringing on someone’s mark. :)

http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C1821086

Anyhow back to the digging....

From what I can tell in his area "San Bernardino, CA". Assuming he's in an unincorporated area all he has to file is a yearly Business Property Statement and a DBA. There are a few other things but those pertain to having actual office buildings. So I'll call the county courthouse just to end my curiosity to see if he's even registered as a legal biz or not. Hope this info helps you in your quest to get your $ back.

go back to the last thread on this topic, I am to busy to pull it all up again and read the post on contractual law I did with references to where I got the info and you will clearly see you cannot hold his parents responsable and even if a minor lies about their age they cannot be held to the contract.

Tim has lead people to beleive he is 33 but he is only 15 or 16 he owns the company so therefore any dealings with him means if he defaults you are stuck. Sure you can try and take him to court but since he is a minor you are stuck. Just as if a minor breaks the law there is very little the criminal courts can do to them the same holds true with civil courts.

Buyer beware when dealing with the under 18's.

Monte, in the last thread I remember several occasions that someone mentioned he did indeed have someone over the age of 18 signing all of his papers... if he didn't then who signed for his bank account and merchant papers.. I'm in the process of digging as much information up as possible to identify that person to hopefully help the original thread starter. While someone under 18 cannot be held to a contract by themselves, this is a matter of the company "Paradise Designs" not providing services rendered. So as long as the company is legal (registered) by someone else, then there is someone to go after. If the company is not registered, and is not legal, and he has defrauded about his age, then all that can be done is inform anyone he does business with (merchant, servers he leases etc). But "somebody’s" got to sign for that unless the companies he deals with are idiots themselves...

But also if he does not have a business license then he is conducting a fair amount of business without a license in CA and most states frown on that and will send the tax collectors after him. So either way something can and will be done. Just depends on how direct or indirect it is.

Contact the Attorney General's office in your state and file a complaint. You don't need to hire your own lawyer, your state has already hired them for you.

Consumer protection is their job.

some good idea's here I will keep you all updated .

I am trying to keep the faith but it's getting harder each passing momment :o

Hello,
I left out Tuesday and I'm sorry for not replying to this post before. I will be talking to the designer to see if he has refunded. If not I will glady have to refund him without a complain.

How old are you im sure we are all interested to know?

I'm sure what happend is very complicated, but who am i to know?? :stickout. My thinking is that Tom set out for Tim to sale this design, tim took in the money via paypal and sent it to Tom. Now as we all know you cant get an refund instantly, if he already clicks accept money etc etc. So now Tom probably feels that he shouldn't have to pay back in full, because he never got ful AKA paypal taxes, yes we all know those. So now tom refuses to pay tim back, which tim refuses to pay phantasy back becayse tom wont pay time back. Who should the blame be in this situation ??¿¿:rolleyes: I'll let you guys conclude this as what you feel, and with your opinion, but this is just an educated guess that i took.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=53833

long thread that explains the whole story *sigh*

Hehe, yes i've already been in and out of it. That thread is pretty much posted on the back of my hand. ;) That is both fact and fiction but in a nutshell, the above post is what i realy think happend, but then again that is me.:smokin:

DONT EAT THE PUDDING

Originally posted by TimPD
Hello,
I left out Tuesday[no comma] and I'm sorry for not replying to this post before. I will be talking to the designer tos ee if he has refunded[no period] if not I will glady [have to is not needed] refund him without a complain.


Originally posted by Choppy
How old are you im sure we are all interested to know?

I would like to know the same.

Originally posted by hostNOX
I would like to know the same.
Ahhhh, there's a few very successful hosts around these parts who are lousy spellers. :eek3: :D

:stickout

Originally posted by hostNOX
I'm sure what happend is very complicated, but who am i to know?? :stickout. My thinking is that Tom set out for Tim to sale this design, tim took in the money via paypal and sent it to Tom. Now as we all know you cant get an refund instantly, if he already clicks accept money etc etc. So now Tom probably feels that he shouldn't have to pay back in full, because he never got ful AKA paypal taxes, yes we all know those. So now tom refuses to pay tim back, which tim refuses to pay phantasy back becayse tom wont pay time back. Who should the blame be in this situation ??¿¿:rolleyes: I'll let you guys conclude this as what you feel, and with your opinion, but this is just an educated guess that i took.

Yeah that's about right and of course I wount get my full amount back cause of pay pal fee's etc . Honestly though , I paid June 3rd and you can't tell me it takes that long for pay pal and to transfer funds .

Facts are , I was promised a refund by this past tuesday June 11th and that hasn't happened. All I have heard is a million excuses why I haven't gotten my refund and I am honestly tired hearing excuses why I can't get my money back.

Do you goto a store and buy something and then return it for a refund to have the store tell you , I am sorry we don't have you money and you will have to wait til such date to get your money back ? NO

The person who I made the deal with and even paid is TIM of Paradise Designs , person I made all arrangements with yet again is TIM of Paradise Designs.

Tim is under the impression that he has no responsabilty to pay me back because at the time TOM of Webdefintey was gonna refund me and I assume deal with Tim. Now that Tom has failed to give me a refund after he promised Tuesday June 11th to me all Tim can say is I will contact him.

When the proper thing to do would be is Tim to refund me and work out his end with Tom.

I have sent a complaint to pay pal but that was 2 days ago and the status on that is waiting for sellers response.

Do I have to send the police knocking at someone's door before they take me seriously and to stop these childish games ?

All, i can say is i feel for ya man. I to understand your position/troubles. :(

Tim's reluctance to do anything in this case generally paints him into a corner and says "Hey, you can not trust me! I am not an ethical business person." He acted as a broker and in that capacity has a responsibility to you to resolve these issues. He cannot just take the money and step asside.

Personally, I would say forget Tom for now, Tim owes you the money. If Tim has to get reimbursed then he needs to deal with Tom himself.

Maybe Tim is generally a good person to deal with, but I'm certainly skeptical. It's a shame too, some of his CPanel deals seem pretty good and I was considering CPanel for resellers since HSphere is still lacking a bit in that area. I think now I'll just wait it out.

how come nobody said anything about "thief's", which should be "thieves" :eek: :D

All I have to say about this is that Tim is a moron. Even if this wasnt his fault he should have paid you back, just so he could avoid the bad publicity.

Hello,
Let me step in here for someone lies like a rat.

First of all, There is really no refund in design. You're not going to pay someone for a design and then get the design all ready and say "Hey I want a refund" things just don't work that
way. That would be like going in a store and buying software and opening it and then taking it back and say "Hey, I wasn't pleased it didn't do what I wanted it to do in the amount of time
take it back" while you at home took the CD and made a copy things doesn't work that way and the same could have been done with the design. I have send him a refund and he has
canceled it as I do have the PayPal History to prove that. If he wouldn't have canceled he would have had the refund by now.

PhantasyWorks wasn't happy cause Tom didn't get the design completed in the design promised as we stated to him that it can take up to a week for a completed design to be put in
HTML. After the HTML and design was completed 100% we offered him the design and he refused to take it. Tom and PhantasyWorks made an agreement for him to be refunded
Tuesday to keep everything settled for the both of us. Legally by all means we don't have to provide him a refund he received the services as promised and he refused to take it.
However, If the only choice that is available is we will refund him ourselves from our pocket and deal with Tom. I apoglize for all this happening as we're on top of it and have been on
top of it from day one.

If you have any questions feel free to email me and I will gladly explain the situation more then I already have.

Originally posted by TimPD

PhantasyWorks wasn't happy cause Tom didn't get the design completed in the design promised as we stated to him that it can take up to a week for a completed design to be put in HTML. After the HTML and design was completed 100% we offered him the design and he refused to take it. Tom and PhantasyWorks made an agreement for him to be refunded Tuesday to keep everything settled for the both of us. Legally by all means we don't have to provide him a refund he received the services as promised and he refused to take it. However, If the only choice that is available is we will refund him ourself from our pocket and deal with Tom. I apoglize for all this happening as we're on top of it and have been on top of it from day one.

If you have any questions feel free to email me and I will glady explain the situation more then I already have.

Tim you can try to discredit me all you want , those who have followed all thes threads about you and your practices will realize your a big fat lair !!!!!! Your right the design was not done as promised and in the time frame promised.

It's great that you can say your sorry in public , why don't you tell the public the real truth ??????

Paradise Designs: Excuse Me. I'm not sorry.

:stickout
A face says it all.

Moderators - I believe this thread should be closed as it is going to far. The truth is here.. Nothing is being hidden.

Indeed it Does :mad:

why tim ? cause the truth is being told ? you aparently have something to hide or you wouldnt ask for it to be closed :o

:cartman: :uhh:

This is not The People's Court and no judge is going to pop up on the screen to render a verdict. There are obviously too very different stories and two sides of the issue. However, the issue has so escalated through the use of this forum that it has deteriorated into name calling, character assassinations and more and has reached the point that neither side is going to give in a bit as it is now a matter of ego.

Do we come here expecting resolutions to disputes? Who is suppose to hand down the verdict? Chicken? It is one thing to warn, but quite another to let something get so out of hand.

As a matter of comparison I paid for a couple of logos a couple of months ago that I never received. The person said they got burned out and had no more ideas. They just now refunded the money. However, I never chose to publicly attack them because I recognize that as a no-win situation. We just privately worked things out...eventually.

Even if you have serious charges to make there is a way to do that without destroying your own dignity as well as the other persons. And, for a host to come back with equally vicious attacks only compounds the situation. Frankly, all this has accomplished is made me hesitant to deal with either party and I venture to say many others would hesitate as well. As to learning who did what to whom and who is telling the truth...it isn't gonna happen here....maybe on Judge Judy.....it might....or maybe try Jerry Springer....

Originally posted by Incognito
This is not The People's Court and no judge is going to pop up on the screen to render a verdict. There are obviously too very different stories and two sides of the issue. However, the issue has so escalated through the use of this forum that it has deteriorated into name calling, character assassinations and more and has reached the point that neither side is going to give in a bit as it is now a matter of ego.

Do we come here expecting resolutions to disputes? Who is suppose to hand down the verdict? Chicken? It is one thing to warn, but quite another to let something get so out of hand.

As a matter of comparison I paid for a couple of logos a couple of months ago that I never received. The person said they got burned out and had no more ideas. They just now refunded the money. However, I never chose to publicly attack them because I recognize that as a no-win situation. We just privately worked things out...eventually.

Even if you have serious charges to make there is a way to do that without destroying your own dignity as well as the other persons. And, for a host to come back with equally vicious attacks only compounds the situation. Frankly, all this has accomplished is made me hesitant to deal with either party and I venture to say many others would hesitate as well. As to learning who did what to whom and who is telling the truth...it isn't gonna happen here....maybe on Judge Judy.....it might....or maybe try Jerry Springer....

Ok Judge Joe Brown :stickout

I understand Incognito , this was being worked out in private til both parties stop responding to the issue . I didnt want it to go this far ethier and honestly it could have been worked out with a simple and timely refund .

Incognito, I respect your posts and have learned quite a bit from them over the past few months. The fact that you were able to resolve your issues with the person desigining your logos is what is different than this situation. You were dealing with someone honest enough to give you the whole story and not the run-around. What I've seen in these posts, including the ICQ transcripts is that Tim was basically laughing at Phantasy Works when something wasn't delivered. In order for him to get anything worked out, he had to bring it public since nothing was being done for him until then. Squeeky wheel syndrom, you must know how that goes.

I rely on these forums quite a bit for information, and this can be considered information that is good to digest. I have dealt with several people from these forums that were great to deal with, others made commitments and then never bothered to get in touch with me again even though I've tried to contact them. No big deal since no money was given up front anyway.

I was seriously considering leasing two CPanel licenses, and had even considered one of Tim's dedicated server offerings... but guess what? I can't be confident any longer because of this. It's a shame too because I don't know of anyone else leasing dedicated servers at those prices on AffordableColo's network.

The bottom line, I agree with you in that things shouldn't be brought here for resolution. Unfortunately when you have nowhere else to turn sometimes being that squeaky wheel is the only way to get results.

Hello, Tim is right. He does "NOT" have to refund that money. You recieved the services but rejected them when it was done. That would be like going to get your car painted and after it is done, say nah...I changed my mind,give me back my money. What are you on??? :eek:

The time the person has spent on this design could have been someone elses design making good money. Instead he was completing a design for you. I think if Tim does refund anything it should just be half the amount paid, but then again he doesn't have to refund a penny.

I know I am going to get flamed for this...oh well, it is the truth. :rolleyes:

well apparently fractiousws, you have your right to your opinion and I respect that :)

your painting a car theroy is like apples to oranges ..if I had my car painted and didn't like it , the company would obviously have to redo it til I was satisfied as you can't just take the paint off the car ;) I am sure they would also have a no refund policy in place for such events. The website wasn't done as agreed upon , I have never ever had it in my possesion yet they still have my money ? what's wrong with that picture ?

besides the fact it was being attempted to be sold to other people after I had paid for it ..Yes the same Design

Originally posted by phantasywork
well apparently fractiousws, you have your right to your opinion and I respect that :)

your painting a car theroy is like apples to oranges ..if I had my car painted and didn't like it , the company would obviously have to redo it til I was satisfied as you can't just take the paint off the car ;) I am sure they would also have a no refund policy in place for such events. The website wasn't done as agreed upon , I have never ever had it in my possesion yet they still have my money ? what's wrong with that picture ?

besides the fact it was being attempted to be sold to other people after I had paid for it ..Yes the same Design


Do you have proof of this trying to sell the design? Everyone is so quick to draw to conclusions here, surprisingly most are other hosts here :rolleyes: who are posting negativly.

If someone put in time and effort to paint your car, and it was done professionally and correctly - why should you expect a refund? gee I don't want my car painted actually. That's as bad as the guy who goes to Mcdonalds and scoffs his Big Mac then says oh it was cold I want my money back.

I will always stick up for Tim because I know he is knowledgable and irrespective of his age (whatever it is doesn't bother me) he is a good guy.

I would also watch out that perhaps some of this might be borderlining defamation of his business since Phantasy Works seems to be intent on taking business away from Tim.


Chicken please close this again, and perhaps warn Phantasy Works to stop repeating posts that were closed for a reason?

Because 2 people made contact with me that's how I know;)

All they had to do was refund my money , no post woulda been made and guess what they coulda sold it for double what I paid for it from what I found out from these other people.

and the post your refering to that was closed was started by CPrompt not me;)

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53833

and paypal seems to be doing something tim informed me his account is negative $$$$$ I think they are just holding it til this is worked out cause I havent recieved anything back yet.

phantasywork, from my personal experience, I know very well that Tim isn't going to give you your money back, and I doubt he is even trying. He owes a lot of people domains which he has taken hostage, and also makes some people work for him for free. He also has a history of harassment, might I add and has ben banned from a lot of boards. If I were you, I would take him to court- he has an uncle signning his contracts.

And yes, Tim tries very hard to get negative threads about him closed, including threatening people on AIM.

yeah that's funny I was told the same thing by another person that his uncle signs his contracts for him.

Yeah , he's been beggin me to cancel the pay pal complaint , cause they have his account hostage and his account is in the red zone.

This is exactly why this post needs to remain open and thanks for sharing your experience Alexandra.

Yes we are another web host / Solution company we have nothing against any party on this Forum.

First thing i was tought about business was " The Customer is Always right, Always! "

Our design team sometimes work for hours on hours trying to find something original for client web sites and we built the template - Then the customer comes into the office and says na i dont like that create another!

You must Swallow your pride and start creating another or modify it to the extent that the customer needs. If you quoted a certain price you should of laid down the rules using a contract or something.

Im not sure what the parties in this thread have agreed to but it should be solved off this forum...

Originally posted by phantasywork
Yeah , he's been beggin me to cancel the pay pal complaint , cause they have his account hostage and his account is in the red zone. At least he's begging you. When I opened a thread on him, he told me on AIM that he would get my thread closed because he was close friends with the mods. I still wish I didn't delete that picture of him- that would definately prove how old he is.

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow
If someone put in time and effort to paint your car, and it was done professionally and correctly - why should you expect a refund? gee I don't want my car painted actually.
The car painted anology doesn't seem to fit here. First, when you paint a car, you either paint it the correct color and well, or you don't. If there are runs or something isn't right, you have terms of the sale to fall back on. Either a refund or a free repaint usually. If they said you'll be able to pick the car up on Tuesday and two weeks later the job wasn't done, I'd be asking for a refund personally.

As I said, the analogy doesn't work all that well...

Designing a web site is different. It is a creative work, generally with a contract that spells out the cost, how the costs are to be paid, and the terms of the job (including what happens if the client isn't satisified), and the time frame. If the time frame isn't met, a designer should (to save grace) attempt to make the client happy as a clam so this type of thing is avoided. Obvisouly he didn't. Client feels wronged and posts their experience.

This issue won't be solved here. It will hopefully be resolved, however the thread starter has stated their case, and the provider has stated their side, so there's not a whole lot of discussion that can be done about the subject.

This thread will most likely be closed, not because Tim is buddy buddy with the mods (?), but because a forum resolution won't happen. A final note that this has been worked out to the satisfaction of both parties would be nice, but if that doesn't happen, then most likely the thread will be locked and the situation will handle itself off-board.

Hello,

I can say there has been a resolution to the situation , was the resolution what I wanted "NO" I took the design even though I didnt need it because I was tired of playing the I can't refund you because of this excuse game for the past several days. This has been going on almost 2weeks and I am tired of it ! So I swallowed my pride and took the design even though I didn't need it or have too take it ;) Since I already hired someone else because of all this trouble.

I guess these days the customer doesn't come first but greed does :mad: They could have easily sold it to someone else for more than I paid for it with a few graphical and minor changes.

I have learned a costly lesson in the long run and next time I will do things a whole lot diffrent. On one note Tim did offer me a possiable refund of 100.00 but I really am not holding my breath on that right now as many promises have been broken in the past 2weeks already..so we shall see if tim is honest and genuine about making the situation right as he says he is .

Thanks for your Patience Everyone.

phantasy Sorry it didn't go in your favor. Take it as a lesson learned. Not to mention that they ruined their reps here and most likely won't get any business from here again. Guess you had to be the guinea pig of this all.

Trust me I have learned one big lesson , nextime I will have a contract prepared and all parties will sign it and agree they are over 18 yrs of age and spell out the specific agreed to terms.

Update: For what has Happened over the past almost 2weeks TIM has defintely up'ed the ante and made things right.

He refunded me 100.00 today plus I still got the design and I think that shows something even enlight of what has went on recently. Now that's customer service :stickout

Thanks TIM :)

I think the mods can close this when they see fit now , I have nothing further to say personally.

No Problem. I'm glad that we finally got all this over with..

Originally posted by Chicken
This thread will most likely be closed, not because Tim is buddy buddy with the mods (?), but because a forum resolution won't happen. You might not think of him as a buddy, but he certainly seems to think youre his pal:

(11:27:22 PM): i dont see a rule ive broken
PDSupports (11:27:32 PM): don't believe me it will be removed
PDSupports (11:27:49 PM): someone else posted something like this and it was removed right away as well as the user was alerted and warning
(11:27:59 PM): alright then, ill ask a mod
(11:28:06 PM): you just want me to get that post deleted
PDSupports (11:50:14 PM): You broke "
We take the "be polite" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive will receive one warning (at our discretion), and if the member offends again the member will be banned without warning."
(11:50:37 PM): in what way was i unpolite?
(11:50:52 PM): and intentionally unpleasant? did i do that?
PDSupports (11:51:01 PM): it said if wasn't happy and I was unpleasant with the post then they will take it off
PDSupports (11:51:01 PM): so
PDSupports (11:51:11 PM): I'm unpleasant with it so therefore they will take it down :-)
(11:51:20 PM): i pmed chicken anyway
PDSupports (11:51:30 PM): I talk to chicken on aim
PDSupports (11:51:35 PM): plus on the forum
PDSupports (11:51:35 PM): so
(11:51:54 PM): so youre trying to tell me that since youre friends, he will do you favours
PDSupports (11:52:55 PM): uh yes he has before
(11:53:15 PM): um, dont you think that also violates a moderators code of conduct?
(11:53:23 PM): theyre there to make sure things go smooth
(11:53:25 PM): not help friends
PDSupports (11:53:46 PM): I ask him to remove another post with someone saying something that wasn't needed and he removed it
PDSupports (11:53:49 PM): cause I ask him to

How do we know you didn't make this so called 'log' up?

Hello,
I never said I was friend with him. I have talked to Chicken a few times on AIM and in Host Hide Out and he is a very friendly guy :).

*NOTE* This thread is going way off topic the time is now to close it mods :).

Originally posted by TimPD
. . . . . . . . .

*NOTE* This thread is going way off topic the time is now to close it mods :). Seems to be a common thing you mention now days.
Maybe you should put it in your signature. ;)

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Seems to be a common thing you mention now days.
Maybe you should put it in your signature. ;) That would be a good idea!

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow
How do we know you didn't make this so called 'log' up? I wouldnt post it here if its not true in the first place. Besides, it's your choice if you want to believe me, right? If your post was meant to ask me to prove it, all I can do is send you the original html file which pretty much can be written by anyone who knows how to write html.

GUYS ! i'm not sure if this was mentioned before , but LOOK AT THE TWO SITES!
THERE ARE SUSBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCES!

look very careful at each site, you'll see on the right where it has the text behind the server, they are both very well crafted.
Also, with a fine eye, you can see that purple-blue background text that says Phantasy works for the phantasy site, and iHOSTED for the ihosted site.
I dont think any artists can duplicate to that kind of capacity.

So i'm starting to doubt it was a stolen design, but maybe a RE-USED design.

Hello,
This design wasn't STOLEN. The orignal designer Tom works for us. The design was made for a Web Definity client which didn't want the design and backed out. Tom, then asked us to sell the design for him. You're totally wrong so don't assume something when you know nothing.

this has been a very interesting thread, Very eye opening. :erm:

Mike

Originally posted by divinetruth
GUYS ! i'm not sure if this was mentioned before , but LOOK AT THE TWO SITES!
THERE ARE SUSBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCES!

look very careful at each site, you'll see on the right where it has the text behind the server, they are both very well crafted.
Also, with a fine eye, you can see that purple-blue background text that says Phantasy works for the phantasy site, and iHOSTED for the ihosted site.
I dont think any artists can duplicate to that kind of capacity.

So i'm starting to doubt it was a stolen design, but maybe a RE-USED design.

I would love to know what substantial diffrences you see

it is indeed the same design as Ihosted just edit to my layout, but I think that was just a example of the site to be edited or is this same design floating around some where ??

http://www.paradise-designs.net/client/ihosted/

http://209.151.72.7/edited.gif

So is there another copy of this site design I don't know about ? It would be a terriable thing honestly cause I have the PSD's

ah damn, this thread is too long.

Originally posted by Alexandra
(11:27:22 PM): i dont see a rule ive broken
PDSupports (11:27:32 PM): don't believe me it will be removed
PDSupports (11:27:49 PM): someone else posted something like this and it was removed right away as well as the user was alerted and warning
(11:27:59 PM): alright then, ill ask a mod
(11:28:06 PM): you just want me to get that post deleted
PDSupports (11:50:14 PM): You broke "
We take the "be polite" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive will receive one warning (at our discretion), and if the member offends again the member will be banned without warning."
(11:50:37 PM): in what way was i unpolite?
(11:50:52 PM): and intentionally unpleasant? did i do that?
PDSupports (11:51:01 PM): it said if wasn't happy and I was unpleasant with the post then they will take it off
PDSupports (11:51:01 PM): so
PDSupports (11:51:11 PM): I'm unpleasant with it so therefore they will take it down :-)
(11:51:20 PM): i pmed chicken anyway
PDSupports (11:51:30 PM): I talk to chicken on aim
PDSupports (11:51:35 PM): plus on the forum
PDSupports (11:51:35 PM): so
(11:51:54 PM): so youre trying to tell me that since youre friends, he will do you favours
PDSupports (11:52:55 PM): uh yes he has before
(11:53:15 PM): um, dont you think that also violates a moderators code of conduct?
(11:53:23 PM): theyre there to make sure things go smooth
(11:53:25 PM): not help friends
PDSupports (11:53:46 PM): I ask him to remove another post with someone saying something that wasn't needed and he removed it
PDSupports (11:53:49 PM): cause I ask him to

Regarding this, first... the post that Alexandra is talking about (the first one at the top) is this one: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50798 and as you can see, it wasn't removed. No rules were broken. I've finally figured out why Tim requested removal of the thread (was rather clueless). The following guideline:

We take the "be polite" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive will receive one warning (at our discretion), and if the member offends again the member will be banned without warning.
-refers to members being rude to one another (ie: "You stupid idiot, your opinion sucks!") This is an unpleasant and disruptive post. You can't be "unpleasant" with the post and we'll "therefore they will take it down". We will not remove a post/thread because, "it said if wasn't happy and I was unpleasant with the post then they will take it off".

Whatever other thread/post you were talking about that was removed, must have been a violation of the forum guidelines. Yes, if you point one of these out, we will remove it. This isn't a favor, nor do I do it because you asked me to. To indicate otherwise is really inappropriate and to contact another member about a post they made and talk about this is just flat out ridiculous.

Anyhow, the thread starter has said that the situation has been resolved to their satisfaction, which was the point, and closes the issue, and this thread.