Hi there, i run my own little webhosting site, and i have been providing hosting for around 4 months now. I havent had a problem so far with customers or anything, but its getting harder to find a client. My Prob is, im worried i could get sue'd or something because im not past 18, and im running my own biz. Should i be paying tax, and any other legal things like that ?
Also, if you want to criticise me for my age (14), please dont bother, because after all it is the service and support that counts!
Thankyou - matt

Well as long as you present yourself professionally to your customers I don't think there is a problem with it. However, I would consider getting a business license (go to your local Courthouse for that).

If this is just a hobby, like reselling for someone, don't bother, but if you're doing this as a real business, then I would suggest getting a business license. Yes, you will have to pay taxes, but you have to give the Courthouse a projected income for the year, and then you pay taxes based off of your projected income and what you really made (the difference I believe).

At least that's how it is where I am in Virginia. :)

RAdon: no im not doing this as a hobby, im trying to run it as a business, and will things be the same for me in the uk, as in virginia ?

Matt

Well I know nothing about UK business laws. I'm sure that you have some sort of department of business, or business licensing office, or something along those lines at your local Courthouse, or something....Again, I'm not familiar with how the UK system work, but start with the Courthouse :)

Without a doubt you will have to be paying tax. As for a registered business, you could probably get away without doing that.

If you are serious about it, get your parents to register the business name, and make sure you pay your taxes!

Governments dont seem to like tax evaders :D

You dont need to register as a business, however you should be registered as self employed with the Inland Revenue and state that you are trading as "company name" however you have to be earning over your tax allowance which should be about £4500 before you have to pay tax anyway.

for a kid, man your 'bizhost' package really 'superb' - 4gig bw and 450mb for 99.99 pounds per year, thats like i think 300$ per year, am i correct? u can get your own didicated server for that amount.:cool:

NumLock £99.99 is like $140 not $300 :)

Thanx Tazd9t9, i'll get onto them tomorrow.

Numlock when u say
"for a kid, man your 'bizhost' package really 'superb' - 4gig bw and 450mb for 99.99 pounds per year, thats like i think 300$ per year, am i correct? u can get your own didicated server for that amount."

what did you mean. I know you can get a dedicated server for $99 a month, but i doubt you can get them for $300 a year. If i am wrong plz tell me where i can get them from.

Matt

He's saying they are pretty expensive, although it really isn't for all that space you give.

Well im bound to say this, but when you thik about it, it isnt that expensive, because that £99 goes towards the personal IP address, and the amount of webspace. Also i try to blanace the webspace with bandwidth, and were not like those donhost resellers who for £25.99 a year offer you 10 gig webspace, and 1 gig bandwidth.


Matt

I think you may find that at 14 you are too young, in uk law, to legally enter into contracts either with suppliers or customers

so technically you can't enter into any contracts without parental consent and you would legally have to disclose this to anyone who enters into a contract with you or whom you wish to enter into a contract with

I think you may find that you cannot also use legal remidies to recover debt - probably again through your parents.

the biggest rub maybe risking your parents assets if you went belly up at any stage, as you are trading as a sole trader any debts may be recoverable from your parents assets, house car etc. as your parents would be standing as guarantors

I would check it out if I was you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK there is no minimum age to run a business. You can be any age to become a director of a company providing you understand the legal obligations this requires. I believe in Scotland it is over 16, but England and Wales, any age is fine.

You could then get limited liability, and nobody could touch your or your parents assets unless they were associated with the business in hand (if things went belly up that is).

You may want to check companies-house.co.uk for any advise.

Your right:) There is no age limit on becomming a director in the UK and the age in Scotland is 16.

You can also buy Ltd. companys in a box now for around £100 very easy to setup, just change the shareholder(s) names and company conact detials, oppoint a director and a company secutary and your rolling. All this can be done through companys house:)

Originally posted by sonixhost
Well im bound to say this, but when you thik about it, it isnt that expensive, because that £99 goes towards the personal IP address, and the amount of webspace. Also i try to blanace the webspace with bandwidth, and were not like those donhost resellers who for £25.99 a year offer you 10 gig webspace, and 1 gig bandwidth.Matt Excellent! I wish more hosts thought like you, no matter what their age is.

Your liability or your parents liability is a good issue to get to the bottom of -- do the work to understand what the real issues are and take any action you need to in order to protect yourself.

I think your general sense of how to conduct a business is remarkable for your age and I encourage you to pursue your business with all vigor. It really is amazing what one can do when motivated and talented. Age has less to do with the end result than ability.

Cheers
Mike

Your right There is no age limit on becomming a director in the UK

This is both correct and misleading, in fact the companies act does not state a minimum legal age for a uk company director, however it does state that '..the person must be able to consent to their appointment'

As becoming a company director is in itself entering into a contract with the company then it would present problems.

Also liability and protection provided by a UK company is only present if the company acts within the law etc etc plus you need at least 2 directors

I would just say get legal advice

Originally posted by bbi-linux
Also liability and protection provided by a UK company is only present if the company acts within the law etc etc plus you need at least 2 directors.For a private limited company, you only need one director which is usually yourself and also a secretary who can be anyone, like a family member or a friend.

Alan

First of let me express my admiration for you to be so ambitious despite your age.

Now, my opinion:

If I want to host a website, lets assume that this website is important to me, I want it to be in "good hands".
That implies of course that the person/entety that will supply me with this service has to be a lagally registered business. And that is totally unnegotiatable and a must.

I want to be 100% sure that my webhost has invested in his business and is doing this seriously and "has something to loose". If he damages my business I want to be able to sue f.e.

You being 14, an age where your life changes every day, you are not STABLE. Next month you can be transferred to another shool, your mother can take away your PC cause she feels that you spend too much time in front of it etc etc.

I am not getting into the legal/age thing cause everyone here knows what limitations you have when you are <18.

I am and always was of the opinon that EVERY WEBHOST must have a Certificate with any CA (VeriSign/GlobalSign/GeoTrust/eTrust and many more) where the webhost must proof that he has DOA (Doing Business As) or any other LEGAL and REGISTERED form of COMPANY/BUSINESS.

As of today I cannot understand why people do not demand this from a WebHost as it is the only thing that gives at least SOME basic security about whom you are dealing with...

ShareFile, I agree with what you are saying... the Internet today you see a lot of websites popping up claiming to be a company, but they're only a small time trying to get a part of the money market of web hosting :), they don't care that much about their customers or their business, as long as they make money. Don't get me wrong, profiting is probably everyone's aim, but without stability, it's hard to do.

On the other hand, there are lots of businesses out there that are not a registered company or incorporated, and still do very well, they care about their customers and also profit or will profit in the future... those are also the good people.

Alan

well i am 13 and think that to have a business now is ok as long as you understand what ur getting ur self in for ive ran 2 and made some money and no problems i didnt register or anything and it is all legal if you have parental permision you can do it! and i no how you feel about being discriminated for your age, somtimes i feel so shy to tell my actuall age because i no of what people say. I say if you enjoy it and have discussed it with your parents just go i however do suggest that you tell all clients of your age before they sign-up as some people dislike using younger people.

best of look
liam hall

P.S i am also english ( so hope that helps )

I personally feel that age shouldn't be an object. If you run your business professionally and legally then that shouldn't be a problem.

I have run my own "business" since I was 14 (I am now 18). It has not always been a registered business because prior to registering my business I invoiced clients as "Shaun Ewing". Here in Australia you do not need to register a business if you use your own name with no added words.

Last year one of my friends (who happens to be 15) and I decided to get together and register a business. Here in Australia there is no age limit to registering a business, the only condition is that if one or more of the owners are minors then they place the text "Minor" to the right of the respective names. This text is removed once the owner turns 18.

I have, however, always been lucky enough to have stability. I have always owned my own PC, paid for my own Internet and phone lines which would make it difficult for my mother to exert any influence. As long as I didn't let the business interfere with my schooling then my mum was happy for me to go ahead.

I will concede that there are potential downfalls when running a business underage, especially an Internet business. The very nature of purchasing products and services generally requires a credit card to pay for services required to render services to your client (especially in Australia where many services are located overseas). There are also downfalls with regards to contracts, etc. As we all know, if you are a minor the contracts are not legally bind both to you and the party you are dealing with.

At present I no longer live with my mother. The business is run successfully from my home/office when I am not at University. We also have a PABX which allows us to run the telecommunications side of the business professionally. Although the profit we make isn't huge, we still make a profit which is gradually increasing as we expand our services.

To end, basically if you run your business professionally and legally then go for it. I'm not sure how it goes in the UK, but if you were Australian I'd suggest to register your business and to also register for tax so you charge GST (I believe the UK equivalent is VAT) and remit it to the government so you are not in violation of any laws. If you do this then you shouldn't have a problem. Your age may be a problem sometimes whether it is dealing with clients who are unwilling to hire you because of your age or whether it is purchasing services (I like to call it the "borrow the credit card" syndrome :) ). But, the best of luck to you.

Anyway, I'll end what I think is my first post here :)

--Shaun

To end, basically if you run your business professionally and legally then go for it. I'm not sure how it goes in the UK, but if you were Australian I'd suggest to register your business and to also register for tax so you charge GST (I believe the UK equivalent is VAT) and remit it to the government so you are not in violation of any laws.Just to add... VAT registration is only voluntary if your turnover is above £54,000 per year, if not you don't have to register.

Alan

£51,000 I thought... ?

I think it went up to £54,000 for the 2002 budgets.

Alan

Originally posted by sonixhost


Numlock when u say
"for a kid, man your 'bizhost' package really 'superb' - 4gig bw and 450mb for 99.99 pounds per year, thats like i think 300$ per year, am i correct? u can get your own didicated server for that amount."

Matt

oooops so sorry. i need to drink more coffee.

What servers are u using out of interest? Hosted/dedicated/colo or Your own on home conx?

In the UK u do not need to be Ltd. u are a soletrader and do not need to pay corporate taxes except on your personal accounts...normal tax every1 pays.

I am 17 and am starting a company/partnership with a guy to provide 'quality' rather than quantity hosting.

Well, I'll get my two cents worth while this is still here. I don't think age matters at all. I think what really matters is experience. If you're just someone that's been online for a few years and decided you'd give it a shot, it might not be such a good idea.

The first thing I would look for if I was ever searching for a webhost is reliability. Of course you can get a dedicated server and have a reliable company host it for you, so we'll skip that part.

Security is my next pet peeve. Unless the other company is managing the server for you, you've got to be up-to-snuff with security and technology. You can have a reliable server, but if you get hacked or defaced every couple of days, well.. close up shop.

Last but not least, professionalism. Everything has to be 100% professional and proper down to the last period at the end of every sentence. I can't stand reading a website with typos left and right if they're trying to "win" my business.

I'm somewhat on the same page as digitalb. I'm a 17 year old for now "want-to-be" entrepreneur. I've never been really interested in webhosting, but I've always worked in the webhosting industry to a certain extent, so I use my free colo's around the state to develop and test with. Maybe it'll pay off some day.

Either way in whatever Liam-Hall and sonixhost decide to do, I wish you both the best of luck.

"professionalism"

When you say professionalism, does it still apply to WHT forums? I know some people who take this professionalism too far and call themselves in 3rd person instead of saying "I" they say "WE" or their company name. I know that is ok..but I know this one person who I am not making fun of or anything but he once told me "We are getting a new ISP (cablemodem)" when he was the only one living in his house and it was not for business but personal use. Just things like that seem strange to me.

sH

For the quality advice, you may wish to try this site (http://www.businessadviceonline.org.uk/cgi-bin/bv1/welcome.jsp).

sonixhost

Part of me says great and keep going. Another part of me says you're only young and not to waste your youth being a slave to a business. You're only young once. But good luck with your business and life. :)

sonixhost is a mate of mine, hes doing well so far, none of his customers seem to have any complaints and hes using a good provider.

There is always the under 18 forming contracts problem but he could always get a partner over 18, share the workload etc.

Good Luck

On your website, the AIM help reads:

"Hi there, please can you help me ?"

Oh, and also on your about page:

"We was formerly based at Sonixweb.co.uk"

Might want to proof read the website!

*I realize you're not looking for comments, but I'm just pointing some things out that will give you a more professional image.

I have operated a web design firm since I was 10...I was fully registered with the state of Connecticut and pay taxes (have a sales tax permit, trade name certificate). Everything is in my name...I run my biz as a Sole Proprietorship.

Tom

Age matter no matter what anyone says.

In teenage years 13 and 17 is a HUGE difference. This is not like when you're 40 and then 44.

I see a lot of children provide hosting "24/7". How are they gonna prove 24/7 support when they sleep 8 hours a day and the go to elementry school for 6 or 7 hours. So what happens when the server goes down? What happened if I have an emergency where can I contact you? What is my e-mail is down and I am waiting for a very important message? Where are you then? Math class?

Also, like someone else stated, what happens when your mommy takes away your computer, what are you gonna do then? What happens if you get hacked? Who's paying the bills? I doubt your parents will put up with so a lot of BS.

Originally posted by sHosts
"professionalism"

When you say professionalism, does it still apply to WHT forums? I know some people who take this professionalism too far and call themselves in 3rd person instead of saying "I" they say "WE" or their company name. sH

"We" is first person plural ;)

I, my - 1st person singular
we, our - 1st person plural
you, your - 2nd person singular/plural
he, she, his, her - 3rd person singular
they, their - 3rd person plural

:)

Anyone know the laws in the USA about it? I'm 14, but I dont want to invest the money for the hosting, designing, etc if I'll be digging myself a legal hole. Any info? Thanks.

Check your state regulations. It is illegal in many states.

It's legal in Connecticut, where I operate my biz (since I was 10)...

Originally posted by Tom Kaplan
Check your state regulations.

How would I go about doing that?

Does anyone have any info on the legalitys of a minor starting/owning a business in georgia?

Just to clarify the UK situation: There's no need to register your company in any way if you're just a sole trader. However, you are supposed to register with the Inland Revenue and start paying Nation Insurance contributions (only £2 a week to start I think, so won't break the bank) BUT if you earn less than a certain amount (approx. £3000 a year) you can apply to be exempted from paying NI contributions.

If you don't register with the Inland Revenue within 3 months, you get fined £100 so you really should do it.

Hope that's of use to someone :) , haven't a clue about the US situation though.

--
Ubergeek

In Connecticut, I called the Connecticut Economic Resource Center (www.cerc.com).

They used to run a great program called SmartStart, a non-profit that consulted new business owners on the proper forms and permits and licensing they needed to legally start their business.

Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, they just got rid of that program.

You might want to call your Town Clerk or the State Department of Revenue Services.

Anyone have any info on US laws (or NC or SC laws)?

I feel bad - this kid is probobaly doing more business than I am...

I say go for it, the worst they can do is take your parents to court - and you don't really care about that anyhow, now do you?

;)

If the child did not care for their parents in court I would not host with them. If there is no care for the parents how will they care for customers?

I think he was joking :rolleyes:

Putting aside the legal problems of age and running a business the question really is does the customer know who they are doing business with? And the realities of what they are getting?And if presented with the facts would they still carry on doing business with that person, or, does that person have to misrepresent themselves to get business?

If the consumer is happy knowingly doing business with a 14 year old who runs the business from his/her bedroom and goes to school/sleeps leaving the business unattented then fine. If the consumer is unaware of this then it is only a matter of time before they become educated to it.

Originally posted by bbi-linux
Putting aside the legal problems of age and running a business the question really is does the customer know who they are doing business with? And the realities of what they are getting?And if presented with the facts would they still carry on doing business with that person, or, does that person have to misrepresent themselves to get business?

If the consumer is happy knowingly doing business with a 14 year old who runs the business from his/her bedroom and goes to school/sleeps leaving the business unattented then fine. If the consumer is unaware of this then it is only a matter of time before they become educated to it.

If he/she used third party support and a reseller account then leaving the business for school and sleep would not be a problem.