Paradise-Designs. Con artist? [Archive]

AlaskanWolf

06-07-2002, 09:37 PM

I have to agree whole heartedly with Tim Greer. If you have any self respect and would like other companies and people to provide you with respect and work with you on a daily basis because they know your a honest person and you say you are the person you tell them you are.

The kid is 16, not 33 as his ICQ details state. I have verified with more then 1 person about his age.

To get down to it, I did respect Tim when I first met him, specially when he attempted to "fix" the problem I had with Online Data Corp, I was ready and did send him a free copy of our WHNBilling just for his help. First off it was mind boggling that a MERCHANT COMPANY would allow anyone else into your account, so that was my first headhay about if he actually helped me out or not or just said "hey can you look into WHN's account" Does that deserve a $600 piece of software? Does telling someone that you alone fixed their account and brought it into good standing when all you did was call up someone that you knew at the company and asked to "look into it"?

After the fact, I brought up some simple questions like 'what exactly did you say to Online Data?", "how old are you" etc...

What really made my mind boggle was when I signed up though an affiliate link though Hostlizer, Tim saw this and was probably pissed off because of the residual income that they were to make off me had him kinking in the knees. I could see the same demeanor in him after he attempted to get Alan's post about Talkhost removed. Yet 3 months ago when Rackshack bought out WHT, he got up and started his own forums to attempt to bring over all the WHT members, it didnt work, as of today, there was only 45 members, not even enough people to call a community.

More then IM was "Im going to call ODC and tell them you signed up under me, and not Hostlizier." I flat out told him hell no.

You can see the type of character a person has just by how he carries himself, either in person or online.

To bring up the other fact that if you visit his website, it was actually the same person Winnie Ho that designed my website oc12hosting.com, If Tim is a so-called designer, it doesn't seem like he cares enough to make sure that his own website is designed by himself to show his true potential

UmBillyCord

06-07-2002, 09:44 PM

So name a few... the majority of them do not. I don't personally know of any that are doing great, not out of all the kids that come here or any of the other places I've seen -- even though I see people claim this, I still don't see it.

This is an excellent point. I know of one who started at 16 and sold for millions. But he also had a 20 year old helping. :)

TimPD

06-07-2002, 09:52 PM

No, One ever said I was 16. I will not tell you my age nor will I deny because as I said I will not tell my age. If I was 50 years of age I wouldn't tell you either. I will be back I'm going to grab a bite to eat.

Techark

06-07-2002, 09:52 PM

at 46 I am starting to feel like I am the oldest in the hosting business. Geeez why didn't I start at 16?? Oh wait there was no internet when I was 16:D

Oh well Tim if you want some advice form an OLD man, come on here and come clean, be up front honest, deal with all these questions head on. You may lose a few people due to your age but you will gain more in respect for being open and up front. I have no idea what all this about really, and have no dog in this fight. But just friendly advice, if someone feels you have ripped them off give them the money back with a full apology and move on with your life. Do not try and sugar coat it if you have screwed up, it is much easier to forgive a man for a mistake than it is to deal with a BS artist.

Monte

Alan - Vox

06-07-2002, 09:54 PM

This is going to sound very strange coming from a 17 year old... dont deal with 16 year olds. 99.9% are not capable of running a business.

vibehosts

06-07-2002, 09:56 PM

Your correct Alan it did sound very strange because how old were you when your business started?

Jag

06-07-2002, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
This is going to sound very strange coming from a 17 year old... dont deal with 16 year olds. 99.9% are not capable of running a business.

Alan, your right it sounds strange :) . Im 26 going on 50 , I dont think people mind anyones age as long as they are up front about it.

Alan - Vox

06-07-2002, 10:05 PM

I was just turning 17 when i started Splash Host. Will be 18 soon.

I do not know a single other person my age who is like me.

CoreyW

06-07-2002, 10:10 PM

I cannot believe Tim is still avoiding all the issues, and denying that he is 16 at most. Pathological liar or what? This would all be behind us if you would just be honest and stop lying!!!

Tim Greer

06-07-2002, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by TimPD
No, One ever said I was 16. I will not tell you my age nor will I deny because as I said I will not tell my age. If I was 50 years of age I wouldn't tell you either. I will be back I'm going to grab a bite to eat.

No offense, but that sounds like something a kid would say. I'm really not saying that to get on yoru case, but that just sounds ridiculous.

phantasywork

06-07-2002, 10:14 PM

I agree stop being dishonest :mad:
I also found out there was another potentail client for the same Design and he was gonna charge him double what I paid for it :eek: and this is after I had paid for this design.

Alan - Vox

06-07-2002, 10:15 PM

If he wasnt very young he wouldnt be trying to cover up his age. Even if he is older he sure acts like a kid.

Jag

06-07-2002, 10:16 PM

I think I missed or skipped some posts, can we see the design work that this whole thing started over? I just want to see the design, nothing more.... so don't go reading into my post! ;)

D8TA

06-07-2002, 10:20 PM

I would like to see this design too.

Tim Greer

06-07-2002, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
This is going to sound very strange coming from a 17 year old... dont deal with 16 year olds. 99.9% are not capable of running a business.

I think most will agree. It can depend on what they do. If it's designs, they do it and they finish it, it's fine to buy from them... but, what about a contract to protect you from them selling it to someone else.. it can get messy, yes. Anyway, I'm with you. It's not any offense to younger people, but it's simply not possible to have the time to dedicate, nor the time to invest to develop very good skills compared to older people that have been doing it longer, to be able to run a hosting business as competently or as well as an older, more experienced person. I have heard a lot of people claim that younger people know more than the older people now, and that's why you'd want to go with a kid instead. However, that's a lot of "hooey" anyway (that's my old person word of the day). I'm not that old, but I do know that when people like Randal Schwartz have been doing Unix since about the time I was born, that he's pretty much always going to know more than I am, at least as long as he's into it. I'll admit, anyone that's not got the comprehension for technical things, it won't matter how old they are or how much experience they have/get.

However, people that are skilled and are able (and there's a lot of them) will always know more and be more capable to run such a business such more skills and success than a younger person -- just for the shear amount of experience. Granted, a smarter younger person will learn more, more quickly than an older (or younger) person that's not as apt to this sort of field, but the facts are, that younger person will know a whole lot more than they are older (if they stay in the field). So, it's not offensive or wrong to think that younger person's are not as able or skilled. It's simple logic and I'm not surprised that you, even at 17, are aware of and acknowledge this. I'm way behind Randal and Linus, and a lot of other people and I'm sure there's a lot behind me too. We all get better with time and experience, and as people get older and continue, they will get better and better be able to run a business in the capacity they'd like to (and sometimes wrongly claim or think they already can at this point). That's not to say people younger can't or aren't successful, but the ratio is far less for this reason -- and if I see another 15 year old come in saying I'm just an old coot (at my age of 30) and how some kid probably knows more than me for that reason alone, I'm going to loose my mind (and that's easy for us old folk).

phantasywork

06-07-2002, 10:22 PM

Before it was edited Image (http://209.151.72.7/before.gif) No cash paid

Edited But not Final (http://209.151.72.7/edited.gif)

Still no cash paid

Final after payment was recieved 4 days earlier this was late thursday (http://209.151.72.7/final.gif)

*warning there rather sizeable images*

The design was made by WebDefinity. (www.webdefinity.com/ihosted) and was being sold to Paradise Designs on a subcontracting basis.

http://www.paradise-designs.net/client/ihosted

The Prohacker

06-07-2002, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by TimPD
No, One ever said I was 16. I will not tell you my age nor will I deny because as I said I will not tell my age. If I was 50 years of age I wouldn't tell you either. I will be back I'm going to grab a bite to eat.

Why would you want to hide your age if you were over 18???? What would be the advantage? So if you were 19, people would think your good because you already have your career going at an early age... If your 50, people would be impressed that a person of that age can do such a thing....

Only people under 18 would wish to hide their age from others...

Jag

06-07-2002, 10:30 PM

Thanks, appreciate it.

Alan - Vox

06-07-2002, 10:32 PM

I hope people wont be put off using my company from what ive said here, there is that 0.1%(probably smaller than that actually) who can do it :)

Synthetic

06-07-2002, 10:47 PM

There are many young CEO's and entrepreneurs that have become very successful.

Refer to: http://www.youngbiz.com

MCHost-Marc

06-07-2002, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by phantasywork
I agree stop being dishonest :mad:
I also found out there was another potentail client for the same Design and he was gonna charge him double what I paid for it :eek: and this is after I had paid for this design.

When did you buy that design? I got this email from Tim yesterday:

Hello,
I also have another design that is possibly open which is http://www.paradise-designs.net/designs/phantasyworks/ please let me know. Also the other one is still open so please contact me my aim is PDSupports.

phantasywork

06-07-2002, 11:01 PM

I am oh so curious when he told you this offer ? I havent gotten a refund so techniclly this is still my design ?

Aussie Bob

06-07-2002, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
I was just turning 17 when i started Splash Host. Will be 18 soon.

I do not know a single other person my age who is like me.
OT: kudos to Alan. :)

I was 17 when I started sub-contracting for a major builder. I was making the big $$$$. Although I did have to prove myself a bit more than others older than me because of my age. But at the end of the day, it came down to my performance and speed. :)

CoreyW

06-07-2002, 11:04 PM

Phantasy> She said yesterday.

CoreyW

06-07-2002, 11:06 PM

I don't think age is an issue. But rather, hiding your age. Because there are alot of people that will not sign up for a 14 or 15 year olds business (me included). So hiding this fact is wrong, because you are misleading them into believeing you are a grown many or company. When really you are just an ambitious 15 year old.

CRego3D

06-07-2002, 11:37 PM

I wanna be 16 again !!!! :bawling:

Aussie Bob

06-07-2002, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by CRego3D
I wanna be 16 again !!!! :bawling:
Yeah, 16 was a good year. I was always chasing some girl. Mind you, nowadays they call that stalking!! :eek:

TimPD

06-07-2002, 11:52 PM

Hello,
We're working on resolving the issue as I said. I didn't say how old I was and I will not say. Age doesn't make a difference. If I was 560 years of age or 45 or any age then that doesn't matter. Age doesn't matter as long as they're mature and can run a business just as SplashHost.com is run by a 17 year old as I said age doesn't make a difference as if it would Alan wouldn't be running his business. I ask that mods please close this as it is in the process of being worked out.

bruce1234at

06-07-2002, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

Yeah, 16 was a good year. I was always chasing some girl. Mind you, nowadays they call that stalking!! :eek:

haha..good one aussie bob! :D

Jag

06-07-2002, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by bruce1234at
quote:
Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Yeah, 16 was a good year. I was always chasing some girl. Mind you, nowadays they call that stalking!!

haha..good one aussie bob! :D

LOL, I second that.

UmBillyCord

06-08-2002, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

Yeah, 16 was a good year. I was always chasing some girl. Mind you, nowadays they call that stalking!! :eek:

:D

See I don't disagree with everything you say. This was pretty damn funny.

geiger

06-08-2002, 12:02 AM

[edit]

BurstCSM

06-08-2002, 12:28 AM

Im 26 going on 50 , I dont think people mind anyones age as long as they are up front about it.

Greg, truer words couldn't have been said better about a lot of us. I've been watching this thread most of tonight, and although I don't comment often, as it more pertains to things I don't have knowledge of, this topic I do. My own brief history, I graduated HS at 16 years old, and was running a sales company at 17. By the time I was 19, I opened a division for Compaq, which launched very successfully. At 21, I headed logistics for Ingram Micro Frameworks on their White Box division. This is not to impress anyone, just age recognition and product association. What I had learned through the years though was that silence was golden when it came to age. Upon immediate mention of it, almost always, there was either a condescending attitude towards my abilities, although proven previously, it was still the underlying presumption. Hell, one of my admins thought I was 40 :bawling: From most of the posts about Tim and Paradise designs they have been good natured, and well respected. Has that all been lost in an instance? And for what reason? The age or the action? What matters to anyone should not be age, but rather of a professional attitude of level of service / committment. Ensuring that you are of ability to meet your tasks for which you are employed. Allbeit self employed, or employed by another, professionalism can be met or not by anyone of any age. There are a lot of gurus in this industry well below the drinking age, and many you would never know their age unless you knew them personally. How many companies are run by generation X? Respect should be gained by what you have done and what you continue to do, regardless of age. That's just my opinion.

Tim, again, my deepest sympathy for the loss of a loved one.

geiger

06-08-2002, 12:32 AM

Tim, you're right in that this has nothing to do with age. But you just said yourself that "[age] doesn't matter as long as they're mature and can run a business"

You displayed to us that you are NOT mature and CANNOT run a well-meaning business. What can you expect?

Techark

06-08-2002, 12:38 AM

Tim and Paradise designs they have been good natured, and well respected. Has that all been lost in an instance? And for what reason? The age or the action?

I think inaction is a better word here. If Tim would answer his critics tell the truth admit if there were mistakes then I think age would matter little, but hiding and refusing to discuss it looks bad.

Asking the Mods to close the thread only adds to the feel that there is something to hide. I think Tim is losing credibilty here of his own making.

Monte

geiger

06-08-2002, 12:44 AM

What Tim did was not really fatefully bad. And it wasn't bodily harmful. But it was decietful, it was defamitory, and it was disrespectful. Not to mention it was selfish.

He does need to learn a lesson or two about conducting a business. Even if something isn't illegal or sueable, doesn't mean it is advantageous.

Jag

06-08-2002, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by geiger
What Tim did was not really fatefully bad. And it wasn't bodily harmful. But it was decietful, it was defamitory, and it was disrespectful. Not to mention it was selfish.

He does need to learn a lesson or two about conducting a business. Even if something isn't illegal or sueable, doesn't mean it is advantageous.

I beleive your digging for the word : Ethics (ethical)

geiger

06-08-2002, 12:48 AM

Tim was also not ethical. ;)

TimPD

06-08-2002, 12:53 AM

Hello,
I want to apologize that this has happened. It will never happen again. I will say that. MEHost.com was designed by another designer inhouse as Tom is also an inhouse designer. We have 2 designers onboard our staff... However, we don't own MEHost

geiger

06-08-2002, 12:54 AM

That only works if you tell the truth.

TimPD

06-08-2002, 12:55 AM

As it is the truth. Tom is an inhouse designer he can confirm that.

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by BurstCSM

[snip history]

It can happen, it's not rare, but it is an exception and unlikely of most people. Then again, we are talking about 14, 15 and 16, compared to 19, 20, 21. These years make a difference in a lot of aspects.

What I had learned through the years though was that silence was golden when it came to age.

Sure, but when you lie or won't fess up when people ask, it's a bit immature to refuse. But then again...

Upon immediate mention of it, almost always, there was either a condescending attitude towards my abilities, although proven previously, it was still the underlying presumption.

This could be, but if we're going to dicuss abilities/skills, I don't think that's going to help this issue in his regard. Most people that are younger, especially in comparison, are not as able or skilled as people older than them that are in the field. This is assuming people people being compared are of roughly the same comprehension. There's no denying it. That's also not a problem or a big deal, but if someone does not have the skills, do wrong and break agreements, contracts or the like, and lie and then avoid the issues, well, what does this have to do with age? I'll tell you. As people mature, learn more, experience more, they are more likely to do the above less and if they don't, they are liable more than someone that's not because they are too young. Again, most people younger, are not as able as people that are older. Circumstances apply to change those variables and certainly someone's not better simply because they are older, but it's more likely someone is _less_ able simply because they are _younger_. A certain age and it's a little bit much. Your history of what you did at your age, is also a different issue altogether. There's a lot of issues involved with this type of field, that didn't apply and doesn't, to most other people, especially in this field.

Hell, one of my admins thought I was 40 :bawling:

Yikes. :-)

From most of the posts about Tim and Paradise designs they have been good natured, and well respected. Has that all been lost in an instance?

Everyone has their own experiences, but we can't just overlook relevant aspects, simply because he's earned the right to have it looked past. Where does it start, where does it end? Do you know? I don't, but I know 'things'.

And for what reason?

This reason.

The age or the action?

The action, possibly a symtom of the age. Let's not pretend that teenagers are the same as more mature people. The majority aren't and few are. This is why laws and policies are implemented to prevent teenagers from being able to do things. I'm not sure I'd disagree with these being a good idea.

What matters to anyone should not be age,

It should to a point, and for some reasons. That doesn't mean that if someone displays skills and professionalism that they should be belittled or assumed immature or inexpecrienced or unskilled, but that's also not to deny that it's the usual case. I know a lot of people, I've been to a lot of places online for years, dealing with all sorts of things from security, to programming, all sorts of theories and applications, etc. I have _very rarely_ if ever, seen a person ~15 years old be skilled enough to run a web hosting company that would cater to businesses that rely on and expect quality service. I'm talking over 9 years time, and being everywhere online. That's not to say it's impossible, but it's so very unusual and unlikely.

People are aware of this and the reasons why they might not wish to go with someone too young. It's a valid reason -- technical, experience and reasons of legalities, contracts, etc. Now, so this isn't even the issue, it's the issue that someone assumes someone's skilled, an adult, has more years of experience than they have even been alive -- and that is a large difference in what you'll actually receive service-wise, because they aren't able to provide what they promised or what you even assume by how they pretent to present themselves.. and so on. This is a valid reason, we have to be realistic about it.

but rather of a professional attitude of level of service / committment.

Well, what was this thread about?

Ensuring that you are of ability to meet your tasks for which you are employed.

Yes, and it's assumed, it's expressed in the failure to disclose the real details, that they are going to be able to achieve said tasks. You find out that they can't or worry that they can't, when you find out something as simple as the age. Let's be real here, after all. If you were doing business with someone and you found out they were an 10-year old that got access to their mother's computer, you'd have a different persective. Even if he impressed you for their age and fooled you in type, you can't seriously say this wouldn't at all change your view of their business. Granted, 10 and 15 is a large difference, but granted, so it 15 and 20. How much do you think someone can learn at 11? Not much. 12? maybe a little more than a 10 year old. So, we're 3 yreas away from being 15 and knowing enough to truly run a hosting business? I really don't think so. Simply, unless someone is a genius (like a 10 year old that is attending college -- and let's not pretend that *anyone here* is a genius!), then this is just not possible for a 15 year old to be as able as a 20 year old, 25 year old, and so on.

Allbeit self employed, or employed by another, professionalism can be met or not by anyone of any age.

Yes, but it's certainly less likely to be, due to age and all the things that are a result of being said age.

There are a lot of gurus in this industry well below the drinking age,

Define "guru". Drinking age, sure. But there's a difference being below 21 and being 15. 4, 5 or 6 years or experience is a big difference, especially when you don't have high school (or junior high school), parents to deal with, girlfriends, sports, hobbies, and so on.

and many you would never know their age unless you knew them personally.

If they are this professional, yes. I have not once seen this, not in a 15 year old. I see a lot of teenage arrogance and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

How many companies are run by generation X?

Gen-X are up to 32+ by now, aren't they?

Respect should be gained by what you have done and what you continue to do, regardless of age. That's just my opinion.

Yes, I agree. Of course it's the actions that matter, but it's not very homorable actions to fail to be forthcoming. I respect you, you're a good, professional minded person. That is you, I'm sure you were close or at this same attitude when you were 18 too. However, that's 18, not 15. 15 year olds can, sure. How often do they? Rarely. I'm not acting like adults don't act immature or unprofessionally, but the ratio of unskilled, immature and unprofessional people is a much higher ratio for kids. After all, they are kids. I guess it's about where you draw the line and maybe you'd get into a contract with a 15 year old (would you seriously do this?), but you'd draw the line somewhere (12, 10, whatever) and there's a reason for it. Perhaps you're experience is different, but we have to be realistic about this topic. I don't really know what else would need to be said, but.. well anyway, I've said about all I care to on this subject... I just hear a lot and don't really see it happening.

BurstCSM

06-08-2002, 01:10 AM

Tim,

You are right, mateurity comes with age, and it's most uncommon for those of a certain age level to have experienced enough environments to truly understand all aspects of business. Also, when questioned of my age in the past, yes I did admit it, as I always felt the need to be honest and forthright with my staff. Yeah, the comment about the almost being 40 was a shock. Don't look it, but I guess I act it sometimes. The days of weekend partying, staying out all night, are few and VERY far between. Well, I've been here 14 hours, so I'm leaving for the day. Glad to see your back in action, I sent my regards to you through Matt @ site 5 a while back.

Off to sleep now, old and tired, and must go to bed

BurstCSM

06-08-2002, 01:11 AM

& walk the poor doggy who lives alone at my house :D

phantasywork

06-08-2002, 01:12 AM

Well Tom is refunding the money to me directly Tuesday.

TO be honest though I think that's unfair because I paid TIM for the design and Tim Paid Tom , so hopefully this mess will be done and over with by tuesday.

Honesty is always the best policy and will gain you respect of your peers .

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 01:13 AM

I haven't seen a Tim_Greer post like that in awhile... Bout killed my eyes reading all that :D

This is the reason I don't argue with Tim, its not that he's always right its just that he can out talk you :D

What are you gonna do argue with a book? :stickout

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 01:15 AM

Matthew,

I hope that my response didn't come out wrong. I agreed with you, but it's just that it's unfortunate that most people aren't able to simply do it. We all know that most 15 yerar old's *could* provide a good, professional attitude, assuming they have had proper training or guidance (even by the parents, or whatever). But, unfortunately, learning takes time, is all I really meant. Well, nonetheless, a big cheer to the people that did accomplish a lot, and in a respectful and skilful manner at a young age. I'm also not saying anything about anyine in particular, but I think that probably got across. Finally, that's not to say that some of the younger people here aren't doing excellent for their age. It just takes a lot of knowledge to do something this complex on the level needed to really do it right. It's, of course, not at all an insult, as they might do a lot better than the generation before them by the time they are their age. Cheers and thanks!

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by The Prohacker
I haven't seen a Tim_Greer post like that in awhile... Bout killed my eyes reading all that :D

This is the reason I don't argue with Tim, its not that he's always right its just that he can out talk you :D

What are you gonna do argue with a book? :stickout

Oh! *ouch*.. ohhh... Ohh!!! You.. bastard...you!! *L* My plan is working perfectly. :-)

hostNOX

06-08-2002, 01:17 AM

How long do you guys spend on these kind of threads that are just a waiste of time, and need be closed.

Jag

06-08-2002, 01:19 AM

I just wanted to comment on somthing here that got brought up and really had no relavence.

Mehost.com, other than having bought a design from PD has abosultely no relationship to them. Mehost like all the other hosts on this board and on the net is just another host. They bought a design from PD and moved on, we bought a design for our site from a third party (not PD) and move on. I know the owners of mehost and didnt see how they should have even been brought into this and wanted to clear that up. Don't go confusing mehost.com with paradis-designs or any other affiliation to PD, given the negative overtone towards PD in this thread I thought that someone should clarify this.

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by hostNOX
How long do you guys spend on these kind of threads that are just a waiste of time, and need be closed.

And why would this need to be closed???

Isn't this an honest discussion about age in the hosting business???????

Hell this could qualify as a term paper if Tim keeps replying :D

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by hostNOX
How long do you guys spend on these kind of threads that are just a waiste of time, and need be closed.

How many of us would even BE HERE, if we weren't the type of people to waste time on pointless threads? Maybe I missed something, but I don't see many that have valuable content. What would you like to discuss? Post a thread and I'll be glad to contribute something more interesting. Thanks.

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by The Prohacker

Hell this could qualify as a term paper if Tim keeps replying :D

It's already been done, where do you think I get all my material from? :-)

PS: I know the length of my posts' content freaks people out. For next Halloween, I'm going to dress up as an essey.

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 01:24 AM

Tim_Greer,

Next time when I have a term paper due will you do me a favor and type it up for me???

It doesn't have to be on subject, its just the amount of type would over whelm the teacher and they'd just put an A on it... I'm kinda sure thats what you did in college :D

BurstCSM

06-08-2002, 01:26 AM

Tim, ok, I lied and didn't go home yet :D I didn't take what you said at all insulting. Although I had to go smoke to come back and concentrate again on it :) I'm in total agreement with you as well. Hell this could qualify as a term paper if Tim keeps replying LOL
Time is something we waste as adolescents, and try to grasp onto as old people. I wish I had more time in the day..... but alas, I can only stay awake for 40 hours anymore. God I'm getting old. Can we have an over 25 forum for the people who should go to bed at 9PM :D

Night all

hostNOX

06-08-2002, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by Tim_Greer

How many of us would even BE HERE, if we weren't the type of people to waste time on pointless threads? Maybe I missed something, but I don't see many that have valuable content. What would you like to discuss? Post a thread and I'll be glad to contribute something more interesting. Thanks.

Hehe very true, but im tired so you must understand lol. As you requested ... http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53896

Aussie Bob

06-08-2002, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by UmBillyCord

:D

See I don't disagree with everything you say. This was pretty damn funny.
:laugh: I still remember stalking their houses on my bike. I would keep circling her house and wait for her to come out. Man, I had it soooooo bad. :D

Aussie Bob

06-08-2002, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by BurstCSM
Time is something we waste as adolescents, and try to grasp onto as old people. I wish I had more time in the day..... but alas, I can only stay awake for 40 hours anymore. God I'm getting old. Can we have an over 25 forum for the people who should go to bed at 9PM :D

Night all
*hands BurstCSM a warm cup of lemon juice, a soft pillow and blanket - points him to the rocking chair - reminds him to take his pills - wipes dribble from his chin with warm cloth - says no to him watching BayWatch*

Goodnight Grandad. ;) :D

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

*hands BurstCSM a warm cup of lemon juice, a soft pillow and blanket - points him to the rocking chair - reminds him to take his pills - wipes dribble from his chin with warm cloth - says no to him watching BayWatch*

Goodnight Grandad. ;) :D

Watch out he might shove that cain some where you might not like it :D

coolj

06-08-2002, 03:26 AM

Gosh!!

There are so many "bits" to this thread it's hard for an opinionated newbie girl to know where to start.

But I'll give it a shot!

First off - I hope the refund gets sorted out soon as I know how distressing trying to deal with this can be.

Secondly, as a person who, (so some have had the cheek to say....!!!)...is inclined to a certain wordiness herself........I loved the term paper and all the thought that has gone into many of the posts here. It certainly makes a change to read real opinions and discussions in a forum. I think most of the people here really try hard to give genuine, well-thought out responses and that's partly why I keep coming here.

Thirdly....being a relative newcomer to the world of the internet and all its wonders and complications, it is something of a "shock" to learn that companies that appear so well established and legitimate can turn out to have very young people behind them. not that this is bad - just - when you first start learning about all this - it really takes you by surprise.

SO - my point is - I think its vital that people be up-front about their age (whether they be 15 or 90) so that it becomes "normal" to think of people of all ages being able to be entrepeneurs, internet experts, fantastic web-designers etc etc.....

It is only with such familiarity that people's perceptions and prejudices around age will become a thing of the past!!!

There ya go - I think that's all I need to say right now. Aah! I feel better.....

Aussie Bob

06-08-2002, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by coolj
There ya go - I think that's all I need to say right now. Aah! I feel better.....
Hey cooj, your 2nd post. You're really burning it up hey?? ;) :D

A great sales tip that folks miss on the net is that they don't have a picture of themselves on their site. A pic is a must if you're trying to sell a product. Your picture reminds them that you are a real person and business on the net is people to people, not people to machines etc. A pic also breaks down the barriers of distrust and makes it easier for them to whip out their credit card and head for the order form.

A pic would also identify their age too. It lets folks know that you're fair dinkum and real. It lets them know who they're doing business with. :)

chrisb

06-08-2002, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by BurstCSM
Tim, ok, I lied and didn't go home yet :D I didn't take what you said at all insulting. Although I had to go smoke to come back and concentrate again on it :) I'm in total agreement with you as well. LOL
Time is something we waste as adolescents, and try to grasp onto as old people. I wish I had more time in the day..... but alas, I can only stay awake for 40 hours anymore. God I'm getting old. Can we have an over 25 forum for the people who should go to bed at 9PM :D

Night all

Hi Matthew,
I spoke with you on the phone awhile back about the Nocster plans, and you sounded very nice and relaxed. Not smoking any of that weed I hope. :o
Sorry, I kept you on the phone for 45 mins. Most companies would go broke if they did that with too many clients. BTW, how old are you? From our phone conversation, I'd guess around 28.

While I'm here... if you ever get more redundancy on those nocster plans, please PM me. I'd be willing to pay $10 more a month.

benoire

06-08-2002, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

A pic would also identify their age too. It lets folks know that you're fair dinkum and real. It lets them know who they're doing business with. :)
Or scares them off on first sight :D (Not that your photo's like that or anything Rob ;) :D)

choon

06-08-2002, 09:02 AM

Hi Tim,

Originally posted by TimPD
No, One ever said I was 16. I will not tell you my age nor will I deny because as I said I will not tell my age. If I was 50 years of age I wouldn't tell you either. I will be back I'm going to grab a bite to eat.

Why should you hide your age?

From ICQ status, your age is 33. Is it true?

Imagine a potential customer ask your age and you don't even dare to tell, what would you think about the customer point of view?

Thanks.

Kindest regards,
Choon

CritticAge

06-08-2002, 09:12 AM

It really sucks how people judge other people's skills on there age. Just because someone is older does not mean they are any better than a 15-16 year old. I am 14, I do not care what anyone thinks. I am currently developing a game that will be played by more than 5000+ when it gets known in the gaming community. Also, I am starting to do some contracts for ********.com as well I designed there site. I think that site might be better than some 30+ year olds.

phpjames

06-08-2002, 09:20 AM

Interesting thread. :D Kinda funny how the person discussed in this thread is avoiding any clear responses and trying to be as absent from this as possible.

I've seen 30 year old crooks and 50 year old unethical businessmen but I wouldnt expect a 16 year old to know the difference between moral business descions and unethical ones. I think its funny how he wont say his age when everyone knows it. :)

phpjames

06-08-2002, 09:21 AM

311

06-08-2002, 09:22 AM

CritticAge

06-08-2002, 09:35 AM

Ummm, is it really that bad I have high hopes? And also, what I do on computers is teaching me.

JayC

06-08-2002, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by CritticAge
It really sucks how people judge other people's skills on there age. Just because someone is older does not mean they are any better than a 15-16 year old. I am 14, I do not care what anyone thinks. I am currently developing a game that will be played by more than 5000+ when it gets known in the gaming community. Also, I am starting to do some contracts for ********.com as well I designed there site. I think that site might be better than some 30+ year olds. Clearly you do care what others think, or you wouldn't say that it "sucks" that people judge based on age. Anyway, no one in this thread has said that age has any impact on design or programming skills. I certainly wouldn't; though I would say that experience can have a bearing on those things. But the focus here has been on doing business. Personally, as someone who has owned and run businesses for more than a decade, I know that the life experiences and maturity that are brought to business relationships by people who have had such business relationships for several years are valuable enough that I'd pass whenever possible on doing important, costly business with a 14 or 16 year old.

Sure, I might pay someone of that age to design a website, or I might buy a software app from them, but I wouldn't risk a critical part of my business in a relationship with someone who hasn't even lived out from under their parents' guidance, hasn't had to work for a living, and hasn't yet had to fully feel the consequences of their every action.

Yeah, somewhere maybe there's that exceptional 14 year old prodigy who has every asset an adult has. But why should I risk it?

divinetruth

06-08-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by BurstCSM
Tim,

You are right, mateurity comes with age....

Burst, thats pure bull. Maturity does not come with age. You don't get more mature as you age, just because you age. It happens if you want it to happen. You will only mature on your own.
We've all seen adults act stupidly before, and we've seen children smarter than them.
So how can you say maturity can come with age ? Its a whole different thing compared to experience or intelligence.

Rewdog

06-08-2002, 10:22 AM

My opinion:
Age doesn't matter till you give someone a reason to question it :)

If you are mature, act professional, they won't ask your age ;). If you screw up, talk in run on sentences, make childish mistakes and use childish behavior... They will ask your age.

Simple as that.

chrisb

06-08-2002, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by phpjames

I've seen 30 year old crooks and 50 year old unethical businessmen

Hey, hey! Careful now what you say about 50-year old businessmen. ;)

phpjames

06-08-2002, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Rewdog
My opinion:
Age doesn't matter till you give someone a reason to question it :)

If you are mature, act professional, they won't ask your age ;). If you screw up, talk in run on sentences, make childish mistakes and use childish behavior... They will ask your age.

Simple as that.

Good example with the run on sentences...kids allways talk and talk and talk.

chrisb

06-08-2002, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by benoire

Or scares them off on first sight :D (Not that your photo's like that or anything Rob ;) :D)

It sure scared me! :) I mean, c'mon bob how did you get that dark hair with those red cheeks? :) Is that your real hair or just dyed?... LOL :)
Boy, you have your pic plastered all over your site... home page, forums, etc. You must think you're handsome or something??? :):)

benoire

06-08-2002, 10:38 AM

Usually you can tell from the style of writing whether a person is young or not - not in every case, but more often than not. Or if you don't realise right away, once you find out they're a kid, you suddenly realise how much younger they sound.

SoftWareRevue

06-08-2002, 10:43 AM

It's always the content of their character that gives them away, it seems.
I know several young people that conduct themselves well. And are a credit to their generation. But, as with every generation, it just takes a few . . . . . . . .

phpjames

06-08-2002, 10:45 AM

True but also I have a few very professional friends who are designers and one who is 25 and speaks like this:

"sup snoop, so wez be goin outz 2nite? Hit me bak on my Cell Dog. You know Da numba. peace!" :)

Thats just funny.

Drewcifer

06-08-2002, 10:55 AM

All of you that are going on about this kid not telling you his age really should think a moment.

Look at the sheer number of threads around here where people have found out that a host is young and 'exposed' it in WHT. Then some jackass comes along and compares him to Shang...

That being said, if you were 16 would you be advertising it to the WHT crowd? I certainly wouldn't.

If the guy's not being honest, then he's not being honest. Honesty has nothing to do with age and anyone who says differen't is just selling their own brand of dishonesty.

vito

06-08-2002, 11:03 AM

This thread reveals more than many of you realize.

When deciding who I do business with, no, age does not usually play into the equation. But honesty, ability and accountability do. If you show me that
- you possess the skills to get the job done,
- you are honest about what you have to offer, and actually deliver as promised,
- you readily accept responsibility for your mistakes,
- you make good on your mistakes efficiently, openly and fairly,
then I have no problem dealing with you. That applies whether you're 15 or 55.

But don't try to say that maturity does not go hand in hand with age. Of course it does. And of course that is a generalization. Certainly there are some 15 year olds that handle themselves more maturely than some 30 year olds. But make no mistake, they are the exception to the rule. For the most part, you mature as you age. As you put more years of life experience under your belt, hopefully you learn from your mistakes and develop more character and more life skills. You may not want to hear that when you're 15, but it is true. At 43, I'm still learning. We all are. No shame in that...

And so fair or not, before I decide to do business with a "young" person, I will usually want to more carefully scrutinze their business practices, their ability to deal with problems when they come up. As a 15 year old, if your age is known, you will in fact have to "prove yourself" more before earning the business. That may seem unfair, but that's life.

But you know what? Once you have proven yourself, you will earn much more respect, and ultimately much more business. I wish I had the ambition and drive in my teen years that I see in some of the young members in this forum.

I admire your get-up-and-go attitudes. Just don't be in such a damn hurry to grow up. Temper your ambition with a bit of fun. You're only young once. (God, I wish I was 15 again...)

And Tim, tell everyone how old you are, and put your cards out on the table. Just be honest and upfront with your customers. You won't win everyone over, but you never will anyways. That's life. The way you're handling it now, though, does in fact show your age and your maturity (or lack of). Believe me, you're not doing yourself any favors.

And Tim, my condolences for the loss of your grandfather.

Vito

phpjames

06-08-2002, 11:20 AM

well spoken vito. :)

The Laughing Cow

06-08-2002, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Drewcifer
Then some jackass comes along and compares him to Shang...

who is Shang? :eek:

benoire

06-08-2002, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow

who is Shang? :eek:
Don't ask :rolleyes:

DanielP

06-08-2002, 11:33 AM

Vito speaks the true words.

I think I'd fit a perfect example of the "get up and go" attitude.

Blame the parents for getting me that computer when I was 8... went down hill from there... first it was the constant game play, then I actually learned something when I got older and by the mid 90's I was on the computer more than I was off it. Kept learning new and exciting things, forgot about this thing we call life and now look at me. I’m about to turn 20, no life, no girlfriend and no friends (except you guys hehehe). But in a strange way I'm still happy, at least I get to do what I love. I guess it’s a blessing and a curse in one. Just a word of wisdom to the young ens, your only young once, live your life, have fun, be a kid. Just don't let it pass you by. There's plenty of time for programming and business's after you've enjoyed life a bit.

Alan - Vox

06-08-2002, 11:46 AM

Daniel, why dont you go to uni or something where you can meet people before its too late.

DanielP

06-08-2002, 11:49 AM

Because I enjoy too much what I do is all :).

Samuel

06-08-2002, 11:50 AM

Daniel, I'm 32, have worked for the military as a contractor, seen every state of the US, some of Canada and some of Northern Mexico.

You are so very young man, you really should redirect your efforts into a degree while you still have the focus, and the time to do it.

DanielP

06-08-2002, 11:53 AM

I'm sure I'll obtain a degree eventually, but all my cards are not yet played out.

Samuel

06-08-2002, 11:56 AM

=) Famous last words LOL

Been married for 15 years my old hosting friend, believe me there is never a better time to do it than now.

DanielP

06-08-2002, 11:59 AM

LoL... I don't think I'll have to worry about getting married (i hope). Bad genetics in my family that I do not wish to recreate :).

Drewcifer

06-08-2002, 12:00 PM

who is Shang?

Run a search for shang, tacid or tacidhost...you're in for some interesting reading. But we don't want to get into all that here...

DomiNET.net

06-08-2002, 12:31 PM

Tim is my current Cpanel Provider for some of our servers. I moved to him because he showed high profesionalism (i was paying less on my other provider).

Tim solved a serious problem with cpanel that our other provider didn't resolved.

After i read this thread i though "who cares how old is he....he is giving me serious reliable, fast high quality support for cpanel issues"

I decided to ask him his age, just to confirm and to laugh a little...he also told me about his kids a long time ago.

When i asked he said "The age of PD Staff is confidential".....Ey thats not professional. I dont feel confortable with a bussiness that hides who they are. I dont mind if you are 7 years old if you are giving me what i expect for the money im paying.

But his "hide age" attitude is worst and give SCARY impresion about PD.

I hope he make things clear....i dont plan to move my licenses from PD no matter his age. We plan to get some servers from his colo facility.

Tim: hiding your reality is not good. Hiding that info to your loyal customers is not good.

Tim is smart, professional, and fast to support his customers....we wont move from them because his age. But we like honesty.

Tim, i hope you learn from this as we learned as well. No matter your age we'll be your cpanel customers for a long time. Thanks.

Sorry for my english....

CoreyW

06-08-2002, 02:47 PM

All of this about Tims professionalism is making me laugh. Did you all miss this convo between him and the client at hand?

20571546 6/3/2002 3:34 PM okay give me a min 300.00 on the way

20571546 6/3/2002 3:37 PM you have cash

Paradise 6/3/2002 3:38 PM I'm looking

20571546 6/3/2002 3:39 PM LoL

Paradise 6/3/2002 3:39 PM heh

Paradise 6/3/2002 4:05 PM as soon as he comes on I will have him take
care of you

20571546 6/3/2002 4:05 PM K ..that would be great

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM hey

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM he is working on it

Paradise 6/3/2002 7:24 PM and said you would have it within the next 24 hours if that

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:23 PM nope he isn't a staff either

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:23 PM well I guess you would consider him one though

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:24 PM Actually No, He isn't a staff. I fired his ass
today as soon as I see him and get your work

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:24 PM or money

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:25 PM I hope that ass shows up today

20571546 6/6/2002 5:31 PM it's really pointless to argue , cause after
all I thought he was a employee of your
company and if I had know diffrent it would
have never been a deal

20571546 6/6/2002 5:32 PM but I will remind you I paid pardise designs ,
for this design which is your company

20571546 6/6/2002 5:32 PM that makes you liable to deliever , this other
person is not my concern

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:32 PM who said it was MY company LOL HAH

Paradise 6/6/2002 5:33 PM actually I"m not the owner so therefore
no heh.

And why do you keep saying, "Tom is in house". Tom works at web difinity. Not for you...and you lied to the client saying he was "coming in today" and that you were going to "fire his ass". Please keep your lies straight.

phpjames

06-08-2002, 02:55 PM

Wow! :eek:

The Laughing Cow

06-08-2002, 02:56 PM

Damn now designers can't work for more than one person c-pr0mpt

:o

alpha

06-08-2002, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by dominet
...he also told me about his kids a long time ago.

:eek: scary indeed!
now, how would you feel as his loyal customer if you realize all that about his age, kids, etc were just a simple white lie?

that was just a rhetorical question. My opinions of age are similar to most people here. Age doesn't matter just as long as they show that they can do the job they are questioned for and they show respect to its customers. Respect seems to be the responsibility that has been missing in this specific case. I personally don't know Tim, I've had one deal with him in the past but this was miniscule and didn't really get me talking with Tim much.

I never questioned his age because I know that people can lie and if they think it will be right to lie, then I simply don't care for them. I as well as others here, have a way of judging character - this personal system hasn't failed me much - sometimes I classified an irresponsible person as a responsible person and likewise, the other way around.

I started doing work as a volunteer at my high school - for two years, I've volunteered as their webmaster - making sure that all information of the school is presented and are updated as often as necessary. I'd spend at least 3-4 hours during a normal week outside of school working for the design and other elements required for being a webmaster. One thing that frustrated me back then was the way that the teacher was never allowed to trust me into accessing the site via FTP - she never gave me the password for the FTP etc. I always wondered, what would I do to something that I worked so hard to present to the world? Yea, I've spent about 40 hours on that so far... let me deface it now before letting anyone see it? Don't get me wrong, this teacher entrusted me and my friends to troubleshoot the problematic computers all around campus - I knew that she trusted us - but the system didn't allow her to trust me on this particular issue.

As a volunteer, age wasn't much of an issue for me. The age issue came up when I actually started getting jobs for site development and getting paid for it. It was interesting being judged so much about 3 years back - when I was 16 or so. It was so constant, I began to judge myself and my work - not feeling ashamed that I was young or anything - its just that so many people thought it was a big deal...

Getting to the point, the best way to deal with this is to be honest about... there isn't anything to discuss, argue, or 'resolve' as Tim mentioned so many times on this thread ... if honesty was the backbone of this whole deal - this thread would not exist.

As someone mentioned before, Tim is losing a lot of credibility here - he seems to be digging himself further and further into a hole while everyone watches him go down into this big hole he has now created. This hole being composed of some white lies, outrageous lies, and mere exaggerations of the truth to heighten one person's position etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an angel when it comes to client handling and business handling - although ashamed to admit it, I also lied about my age to some people when I was younger - however, I have told him (or them) the truth at the end if the deal worked out and no problems presented itself. (I think this was before I came on WHT.) Now, I have to say that when it comes to business - it's merely business - no hard feelings. Give clients respect and honesty that they deserve and you should get a nice addition to your client-base, trust, and ability to become friends with them.

g'luck

alpha

06-08-2002, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow
Damn now designers can't work for more than one person c-pr0mpt

:o

hmm, I think c-prompt was just pointing out that this Tom was in no way 'in house' as the conversation stated and that Tim had no way of 'firing his ass' considering that this Tom was just doing a project-by-project (aka freelance) work for Tim. thats what I'm getting from this thread anyways...

TrishM

06-08-2002, 03:08 PM

Tim is 16, born in 1986 as well. Went by timmy86 on the Cyber Crew boards. This is one of his posts (http://pub44.ezboard.com/fcybercrew74852frm15.showMessageRange?topicID=21.topic&start=1&stop=40) to prove it, just scroll down a bit to see "timmy86" and his signature links. It is a known fact at Cyber Crew by the admins that he is in fact 16.

Age shouldn't really have anything to do with this whole mess, but one cannot enter into a contract with a minor so therefore one should be able to ask and request proof of age upon entering into a contract on the internet don't you think? Proof and non secrecy is important I would think especially when dealing with a company/business on the internet.

Just my 2cents CAD.

Trish :)

CoreyW

06-08-2002, 03:11 PM

Exactly alpha. Tom never worked for him in any way. Tim only purchased some styles from him. Already existing ones at that.

geiger

06-08-2002, 03:18 PM

Minors can sign contracts. They just can't be bound by them. Hypothetically if you don't really tell anyone you're a minor and you follow through on your deals, there won't be any problems.

Jag

06-08-2002, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by geiger
Minors can sign contracts. They just can't be bound by them. Hypothetically if you don't really tell anyone you're a minor and you follow through on your deals, there won't be any problems.

Thats a stupid statement, Im sorry but it is. The very point of a contract is to have a binding legal recourse should a problem arise and to swear to factual statements and guidelines. Minors can not enter into a contract, their parent or guardian can though.

geiger

06-08-2002, 03:25 PM

Please do not insult me.

As far as I know there is nothing legally wrong with a minor signing a contact. What would happen is that the adult is bound while the minor is not. Of course that sort of defeats the purpose, however the minor gets his end of the bargain.

TrishM

06-08-2002, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by geiger
Minors can sign contracts. They just can't be bound by them. Hypothetically if you don't really tell anyone you're a minor and you follow through on your deals, there won't be any problems.

LMAO - okie dokie. And if you don't follow through on your deals the party entering into the contract with the minor is royally screwed.

And I would hope that if one does know that they are entering into a contract with a minor, that they do have a legal aged person also signing the contract, guardian, parent or business cohort.

I know minors aren't out to get us, we all were(are) minors before but you have to watch your buttocks especially on the internet.

Trish

geiger

06-08-2002, 03:28 PM

Basically, I think that's exactly what happens. Call it insane but what's the alternative? A minor isn't held by his signature!

Jag

06-08-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by geiger
Please do not insult me.

As far as I know there is nothing legally wrong with a minor signing a contact. What would happen is that the adult is bound while the minor is not. Of course that sort of defeats the purpose, however the minor gets his end of the bargain.

I didnt mean to insult you, I didnt say your were stupid I said that statement was. If you read up on the law a minor can not enter into a contract. The person that agrees to such a thing will lose in a court of law plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with a minor working under an adult though, if the business and all legal contracts are signed by the adult. Its the very reason you can not get a business license unless your 18.

CoreyW

06-08-2002, 03:32 PM

This is the VERY reason why minors like Tim should not be hiding that they are a minor. The option should be given to someone to deal with a minor or not.

geiger

06-08-2002, 03:37 PM

You don't have to be 18 to get a business license. I know that for a fact.

MadSkilage

06-08-2002, 04:13 PM

I love threads like this - teenagers arguing that they can in fact run a competent business operation - others arguing that they can't.

I'm still a teenager, but here are my opinions why you should be careful doing business them.

1) They still live with mom and dad which means:

- "Son/Daughter we've planned a vacation, so you won't be able to access your computer for the next two weeks!"
- "Son/Daughter, you are grounded and won't be able to access your computer for the next two weeks!"

No independence is a major factor to consider.

2) They have little experience with the real world. Ask the average teenager what a W2 is and he/she will give you a blank look. Do you really want to take a risk with a business that in many cases won't know the proper avenues they need to take for preparing taxes, legal matters, etc.

3) What happens if they decide to go to college?

4) And the main reason that has been mentioned time and time again is that they can't enter into a legal contract. Here's what will happen if they get sued. Mom and Dad will hire a lawyer, get very pissed off, then shutdown their son/daughter's company because they don't want to deal with the legal risk anymore

Does this mean that all teenagers are not to be trusted/dealt with. Of course not. What's really important is that you do your homework. Call them up and talk with them honestly and find out their situation. If I called up a 16 year old that sounded competent and gave me honest information (I am in high school, I plan on working on this business for about 2-3 years, etc.) I would feel very comfortable.

Geiger - Who cares if you can get a business license? You can't sign contracts which makes being a legal owner of a business a moot point.

geiger

06-08-2002, 04:16 PM

I didn't say it was a big deal. I was just replying to a comment.

Alan - Vox

06-08-2002, 04:59 PM

I love threads like this - teenagers arguing that they can in fact run a competent business operation - others arguing that they can't.

Only this time you have an other teenager saying that you shouldnt do business with teenagers under unless you are very confident in them.

MadSkilage

06-08-2002, 06:26 PM

i would consider myself an anomaly

clockwork

06-08-2002, 06:53 PM

...him going to school?

At 16 that'd put him in High School.

Wake up at 6am, come home at 2:30pm or so.

How reliable can that be? Anyone else watching over his servers?
Answering support?

Interesting questions raised, i'm surprised (or missed) the mention of school being a factor here.

Is this hurting his education? I would think so.

jarrod

06-08-2002, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by clockwork
...him going to school?

Is this hurting his education? I would think so.

From his posts, it looks like he missed a few english classes.

JayC

06-08-2002, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by TrishM
And I would hope that if one does know that they are entering into a contract with a minor, that they do have a legal aged person also signing the contract, guardian, parent or business cohort.I'd also add that any contract that doesn't contain a statement specifically making clear that the parties signing it have the legal authority to do so was probably written by a minor. :)

Just kidding about that, but really it's an essential part of any contract that's written or reviewed by a knowledgeable person (that is, a lawyer). And it would mean that while a minor signing one might feel that he or she can't be bound by its terms, that minor would be able to be charged with a crime.

TrishM

06-08-2002, 07:42 PM

Agree :)

Sean

06-08-2002, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by mehost
I promise you that TIM is NOT behind Mercury Hosting, www.mehost.com in any way shape or form.

jason

http://www.<<Removed: Censored for a reason>>.com/showthread.php?threadid=99

Don't say something unless your 100% sure...

Sean

geiger

06-08-2002, 08:22 PM

huh?

Tim Greer

06-08-2002, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by geiger
huh?

Remove the dots on the link:

"Paradise Designs is Pleased.....
Post: 1

Paradise Designs is pleased to announce the opening of Mercury Hosting, Inc! (http://www.mehost.com)

Mercury Hosting, Inc became our most recent client requiring our Web Design and Development services, and to the great satisfaction of all the staff between the two companys, the whole process has been both a vital success and a pleasurable experience for everyone.

We'd like to take this opportunity to welcome you to the possibilities for you and your business by acquiring our services here at Paradise Designs, and look forward to hearing from you in the near future should you wish to use us.

**Mods if this is the wrong forum please put it to the right***"

I believe, that.

geiger

06-08-2002, 08:30 PM

Didn't I already say that Mehost was designed by PD?

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by geiger
Didn't I already say that Mehost was designed by PD?

But this looks like TimPD is behind Mehost.... If thats the same Tim, which I think is safe to assume...

Hmm...

C-Prompt, look on hosting chat, do those post new and post reply buttons look familar?

Sean

06-08-2002, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Tim_Greer

Age certainly does have to do with it, but that can depend (on who, if anyone, the a/the partner is). This is important and out of the people that say it's not (or even that it is) I'd like to see how many people can truly list a business (or so-called company) ran by a kid that is actually doing "great". I'm serious. One that is ran _solely_ by a kid, doing great, the kid isn't lying about his age or skills and has no adult partner's involved. Please, let me see this.

oops, missed that one.

sean

Sean

06-08-2002, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by TimPD
Hello,
I want to apologize that this has happened. It will never happen again. I will say that. MEHost.com was designed by another designer inhouse as Tom is also an inhouse designer. We have 2 designers onboard our staff... However, we don't own MEHost

Don't LIE!!!!!!

Sean

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Sean

I am not doing "great" as you would say.. I'm not up there with Verio, but I do run a company, registered, and all.

I have parents which take care of the age requirement needs.. I'm under 18, but my clients do not seem to mind....

Sean

Tim was asking for someone without adult help, and like you said, your parents take care of the age required stuff.....

geiger

06-08-2002, 08:45 PM

By signing your contacts? Humph. Sounds like a real successful company when Mommy and Daddy sign on the dotted line. No offense.

Sean

06-08-2002, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by The Prohacker

Tim was asking for someone without adult help, and like you said, your parents take care of the age required stuff.....

thx

Sean

06-08-2002, 08:48 PM

DId a bunch of posts just get deleted?

Referring to the hosting part of PD? SOmeone sent me here to read em, now I dont see them, and they cannot either......

Oh well, I guess they were off-topic as to this Design discussion.

Sean

mkaufman

06-08-2002, 09:07 PM

Amazing...

I have talked to Tim several times over AIM. After a few minutes of talking, I noticed that he was certainly not an adult. I asked him his age, and he wouldn't tell me.. Not only that, he brags about his company car [Ford 2002 Mustang], employees, "their" office and his clients.

About a week ago, he pretended to know PHP..he told me he was re-programming CPanel in a PHP Frontend :). First of all, you can't even see the CPanel code, since it's compiled. Later he asked me how to do an include function in PHP. He was having trouble accessing a CPanel file. He was simply using the include function to include the Perl CPanel pages..not doing a whole PHP frontend to the system, which would be useless (plus it would take hundreds of hours of programming)...and includes are also useless since half the functions aren't even going to work correctly by just being included in some other page.

If he just posted the truth here, most everything would be fine. He should have given his clients an instant refund and most everything would probably be fine - plus it wouldn't have turned into an 11 page-plus thread.

I hope he won't rip off any other people, I know several companies that "he" is doing work for. If I were them, I'd ask for a refund this instant.

Once again..amazing..he's one of the people that gives teenagers on the Internet a bad name.

alpha

06-08-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by mkaufman
I have talked to Tim several times over AIM. After a few minutes of talking, I noticed that he was certainly not an adult. I asked him his age, and he wouldn't tell me.. Not only that, he brags about his company car [Ford 2002 Mustang], employees, "their" office and his clients.

About a week ago, he pretended to know PHP..he told me he was re-programming CPanel in a PHP Frontend :). First of all, you can't even see the CPanel code, since it's compiled. Later he asked me how to do an include function in PHP. He was having trouble accessing a CPanel file. He was simply using the include function to include the Perl CPanel pages..not doing a whole PHP frontend to the system, which would be useless (plus it would take hundreds of hours of programming)...and includes are also useless since half the functions aren't even going to work correctly by just being included in some other page.

yeaaa... i think thats just about pushing it...:eek3:

TimPD

06-08-2002, 09:50 PM

I said I know how to use the include function in PHP and yes I do.

mkaufman

06-08-2002, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by TimPD
I said I know how to use the include function in PHP and yes I do.

You specifically told me you were programming a PHP frontend to CPanel..but I don't really care - just do the right thing: 1) Refund your client and 2) Tell the truth.

nopzor

06-08-2002, 10:44 PM

While Tim might've designed mehost, I know for a fact that he does not own it.
Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to say who does own it, but it is not Tim.

Best,

phantasywork

06-08-2002, 10:46 PM

Folks He admited he didnt even design Mehost in this same thread back several pages .

Originally posted by TimPD
Hello,
I want to apologize that this has happened. It will never happen again. I will say that. MEHost.com was designed by another designer inhouse as Tom is also an inhouse designer. We have 2 designers onboard our staff... However, we don't own MEHost

TimPD

06-08-2002, 10:47 PM

As we have said the refund is in process and will be done on Tuesday. Until, then I will not post anymore to this thread. As I see that it isn't needed. The truth has been told as I said. Yes, we did design MEHost.com

ffeingol

06-08-2002, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by The Prohacker

But this looks like TimPD is behind Mehost.... If thats the same Tim, which I think is safe to assume...

TimPD only did the design for Mehost. He does not own or operate the copany.

Frank

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by TimPD
As we have said the refund is in process and will be done on Tuesday. Until, then I will not shall anymore to this thread.

I will not shall anymore??? WTF???

The truth has been told as I said.

By everyone else but you :D

If your under 18 just admit it, makes ya look much much worse than if you'd just say it...

mkaufman

06-08-2002, 11:22 PM

I will not shall anymore??? WTF???

I was talking to him on AIM about an hour ago and he said the exact same words ..

SoftWareRevue

06-08-2002, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by mkaufman

I was talking to him on AIM about an hour ago and he said the exact same words .. PH? Or TimPD?

The Prohacker

06-08-2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
PH? Or TimPD?

Sorry, I can't stand AOL anything, except maybe ICQ.. Or is that I shall nothing but icq????

SoftWareRevue

06-08-2002, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by ffeingol

TimPD only did the design for Mehost. . . . . .
Frank But, he says he didn't design it.Originally posted by TimPD in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50020&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)
. . . . . . . .I'm not the the one who designed MEHost "PDAdam" did the site. I'm the CEO and The Owner of Paradise Designs . . . . . . .

Southernman

06-08-2002, 11:46 PM

Looks like Tim learnt how to give refunds from AletiaHosting! :lol: Couldn't resist :D :D

Jag

06-09-2002, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by ffeingol

TimPD only did the design for Mehost. He does not own or operate the copany.

Frank

I concur, I know the owner and it isnt Tim.

Techark

06-09-2002, 01:04 AM

Minors

In most states a person is no longer a minor for contractual purposes at the age 18.

A minor can enter into any contract that an adult can.

A contract entered into by a minor is voidable at the option of that minor.

Minor's Right to disaffirm

A contract can be disaffirmed at any time during minority or for a reasonable period after the minor comes of age.

Minor must disaffirm the entire contract

Disaffirmance can be expressed or implied.

Minor's Obligation on Disaffirmance

In most states, minor only need return the goods (or other consideration) subject to the contract, provide the goods are in the minor's possession or control.

In increasing number of states, the minor must restore the adult to the position held before the contract was made.

Case 13.1: Dodson v. Shrader (1992).

Misrepresentation of Age

Right to disaffirm
- Minor can disaffirm the contract even though minors age is misrepresented.

Obligation to Restore
- Some courts refuse to allow minors to disaffirm executed contracts unless they can return the consideration received.
- Some courts allow the defrauded party to sue the minor for misrepresentation or fraud.

Contracts for Necessaries

Minor may disaffirm the contract but remains liable for the reasonable value of the goods.

Criteria:
- Item contracted for must be necessary for the minor's subsistence.
- Value of the necessary must be up to the level required to maintain a minor standard of living
- minor must not be under the care of parent or guardian

Parent's Liability

Contracts.
- Parents not liable (This is why parents are usually required to sign any contract made with a minor).
Torts (Statutes vary):
- Minors are personally liable for their own torts.
- Liability imposed on parents only for willful acts of their minor children
- Liability imposed on parents for their children's negligent acts that result from parents' negligence.

source http://www.occ.cc.mi.us/buslaw/static/clark13.ppt

The way I read it if you are doing business with a minor you are screwed, even hosting an account on a minor ran hosting company means the TOS is voidable by them at anytime.