I was not given the opportunity to respond to a post from VO's Bailey before Chicken closed the thread, and I think this is an important enough subject in itself to start a new thread pertaining to Anonymity. Hopefully, Chicken won't delete this.

As an individual in a forum, I have a right to preserve my anonymity if I so choose. A company is different. VO is a company who specifically CHOOSES to post their email addresses and identities. VO posted my other machine names that have never been posted on this board. By their own admission, they did it again, even after I specifically asked them not to. What kind of company would allow one of their employees to do that?

I read through the entire VO thread, and also others you posted in, and it really seems to me that you like making a big deal out of the littlest of things.

Just my $0.02

I have to agree with blah. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. It makes life easier.

I just glanced though the thread...

And came to the conclusion, if your that worried about your personal information, there is only one sure way to protect it and prevent it from being brought up here...




DON'T POST HERE

Most sure and proven way to stop it :D

I kinda liked it when IPs were visible, I think it cut down on the sudo posting crap and all

Hows that for privacy:stickout

Originally posted by blah
I read through the entire VO thread, and also others you posted in, and it really seems to me that you like making a big deal out of the littlest of things.

Just my $0.02

Maybe so. At least, they didn't give out my email address, just the name; and for that I am grateful. I just thought that by them posting a name that was only used in my private email to them, made me look deceitful, which I am not. That's all.

guilty conscience?

why would you do that anyway? :eek:

This reminds me if the Energizer commercials: The Energizer Bunny keeps going and going..........

If you don't want your laundry aired publicly, don't hang it up to dry. Do what you should have done in the first place and stick to private emails between you and the company in question. You don't like the way they treat you? Don't do business with them. If you really want to drag them through the mud publicly, first make sure they've actually done something bad. Then, be prepared to get muddy right along with them.


EDIT: Just to be clear, this is a general rant directed at the whole group of people who use WHT as a public shooting gallery. It is not intended as a direct attack against any one, particular individual.

Originally posted by The Prohacker
. . . . . . . . .

I kinda liked it when IPs were visible, I think it cut down on the sudo posting crap and all

Hows that for privacy:stickout

Sure seemed to be a much more subdued demeanor of posters then.

Originally posted by kmh
If you don't want your laundry aired publicly, don't hang it up to dry. Do what you should have done in the first place and stick to private emails between you and the company in question. You don't like the way they treat you? Don't do business with them. If you really want to drag them through the mud publicly, first make sure they've actually done something bad. Then, be prepared to get muddy right along with them.


EDIT: Just to be clear, this is a general rant directed at the whole group of people who use WHT as a public shooting gallery. It is not intended as a direct attack against any one, particular individual.

You make some good points. I admit I may have been wrong about posting that thread, but was curious what others thought about the anonymity part. At least, it showed me how they would react/respond. I'm saying nothing more about that thread as it has already been exhaused. I just wish to discuss the anonymity issue.

I realize that I'm a "critical thinker" (btw, that doesn't necessarily mean critical or negative) and too analytical for most people. While some people look at argumentative or controversial issues as being negative, I don't. I think we can all learn from argument (discussion, whatever you want to call it), and it isn't a bad thing as long as people exercise a degree of control and professionalism.


EDIT: Anonymity/Privacy is a pet peeve of mine, and remaining private is getting harder ever day, especially here on the net. I think, sometimes, as a society, we are much better served when anonymity is allowed and upheld. That way you can address issues openly and honestly without fear of retaliation. A good example of this is writing to your local newspaper's "Letters To the Editor" and when they publish your article and post your address. Someone that doesn't like what you said may attack you at your home. That has happened here in my city.

You say you just want to discuss anonymity, but your post to start this thread referred directly to the other.

However...

as to anonymity in general...let's change the word to privacy...one of the hardest things to truly find, but something all hosts promise to protect. And, whatever the reason or excuse, I don't think it is a promise that should ever be broken.

But of course I don't approve of the behavior that led to it being broken either....and, right or wrong...sometimes our behavior comes back to bite us in the .....

However, two wrongs do not make a right.

You are too analytical for most people? Too condescending, maybe? Too adolescent, maybe? I don't know you enough to say...but that comment shows as you did in the other thread, that if someone disagrees with you, you feel they are wrong or stupid or not as analytical as you.

But, back to anonymity. I will not ever under any conditions violate my policies toward privacy...even if it means I can't defend myself against unwarranted attacks. Furthermore, I would not continue to do business with someone who did. But, again, I strongly dislike those who would take advantage of that by posting accusations, untruths, or disparaging remarks under the protection of anonymity.

You are too analytical for most people? Too condescending, maybe? Too adolescent, maybe? I don't know you enough to say...

No, you don't know me well enough. If you don't know me well enough to say, then why even suggest those derogatory terms unless you are just trying to start a flame war? :o

EDIT: You made some good points though, such as "2 wrongs don't make a right;" "if you do something wrong, it may come back to bite you", etc.

Its funny, you take one line out of an entire post that in its whole was very good, and I think it covers my opions quite well....

And you do not even comment on that... He wasn't saying anything derogatory to you... You just post that with nothing else....


Thats why someone might think your to adolecent, or immature...

Originally posted by The Prohacker
Its funny, you take one line out of an entire post that in its whole was very good, and I think it covers my opions quite well....

And you do not even comment on that... He wasn't saying anything derogatory to you... You just post that with nothing else....


Thats why someone might think your to adolecent, or immature...

I was in the process of editing and adding to that post while you were posting this.

Well, wouldn't it be a matter of pure commonsense that the arbitory decision-makers on this bulletin board enact a policy of disputes between individuals or individuals and companies as such be removed on notification of their existance.

People whine and moan about personal attacks which just saying "go home you troll or anything else against the agressor" will stop it? No, of course not and the usual will continue.....

Personally, a more hands on approach to censoring the crap from the cream might make this board rise above the swamp that a good portion of threads often delve into, and cut down the threads that we have to sift through which have an ounce of legitimate content and maturity for the reader.

If WHT would go back to displaying IPs, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Because the other thread wouldn't have got started. Though, if it did get started, there would have been no secret to anybody's identity.

It's a public forum. It should go back to being a public forum.

Originally posted by MKelso
Well, wouldn't it be a matter of pure commonsense that the arbitory decision-makers on this bulletin board enact a policy of disputes between individuals or individuals and companies as such be removed on notification of their existance.

People whine and moan about personal attacks which just saying "go home you troll or anything else against the agressor" will stop it? No, of course not and the usual will continue.....

Personally, a more hands on approach to censoring the crap from the cream might make this board rise above the swamp that a good portion of threads often delve into, and cut down the threads that we have to sift through which have an ounce of legitimate content and maturity for the reader.

What do you suggest? Certainly, I, for one, don't think more censoring here is the answer. We all hope for discussions to always stay focused without flaming; but on occasion, there is going to be "talk" that is misunderstood. After all, this is called Webhosting TALK, not Webhosting 101. ;)

EDIT: "mwatkins" went even further... he posted a full name. I'm still curious how mwatkins got another user's names off of my machine and posted it here, when that user has never posted here or been given to anyone? If you want to tell me mwatkins, please PM that info. I'm also getting more spam since that VO thread. OK, I made a mistake; but that's no excuse for people to be so vindictive... as Incognito said, "2 Wrongs don't make a right".

Incognito, your post is interesting, yet you too, obviously want anonymity. I do agree that there are those that abuse anonymity, but still think it's necessary. I mean how many people here have sigs with their real names and email addresses. Doesn't look like too many, unless they are a business. I'd guess most people here want their privacy taken seriously.

Actually, anonymity at WHT is quite easy. But, it comes at a price. It requires responsible posting, thinking about what you are about to say, and holding back and not posting on certain topics.

I like to think that I've managed a certain amount of anonymity here at WHT. It isn't by accident. I don't advertise my hosting company. I don't use a sig. I don't refer people to my site. I don't generate any business. I do this simply because it allows me to say what I really think.

But, I don't start posts to talk about specific problems I have had with other people/companies. I have to hold back on threads because, while I have 1st hand information about a particular host, I can't give it without losing the anonymity.

Since you use it as an example, Chris, I will too. You can have anonymity here. But, as soon as post a disparaging remark about someone else, you step out into the public world. The accused has the right to face their accuser, and all that. No wrestling behind a mask.

Really, it's your choice. You can have the priviledge of anonymity, but only if you are willing to take on the responsibility, as well.

Well, my thoughts about this are the following:

We are all people here, not robots. We have feelings and personalities, obviously. :emlaugh: As a matter of being human and personable, I address people by their names. (Go back and search through my posts, you'll see...) I was not trying to stir up controversy or be insensitive or mean-spirited to "chrisb," rather, when I write to people (in forums, in e-mails, whatever), I refer to them personally much as I would if you and I were talking in person... *shrug* I am just a personable, nice, friendly kind of person that way (maybe it's 'cuz I'm a girl). I do not consider a person's rather generic first name to be a privacy issue. There are millions of Dennis's and millions of Chris's out there. *shrug* Nobody knows anything more about anybody than they did before.

Consider this: All he had to do was say "chrisb is a screen name, and I prefer that folks refer to me that way on the boards. I wanted to ask if you could please do so as well? etc. etc." A little different tone, isn't it? Considering that I use a screen name myself ("Bailey" is not my real name either) I fully understand that and respect that. Instead, being ambiguous and demanding about it simply brought about negative attention to the issue, rather than helping it be spun in a positive light. Unfortunately people respond better to being treated nicely, than to being treated callously. I mean look here... "chrisb" started this whole new thread here over being treated what he thought wasn't-so-nicely.

As for the root of this thread, and the allegation that I was spiteful: I didn't even see the PM he sent me until after I had posted to the other thread. I thought, "what the heck is he talking about?" and then I went back and looked. When I read the tone and wording of the PM, I really got peeved. Like who is this guy to make demands? Steve Merkel doesn't post his e-mail address on the VO website for all to click on... and yet "chrisb" decided to post it, and supposedly "private" e-mails between he and said individuals including their e-mail addresses and full first & last names without these people's consent/blessing. So then I went back and added the PM bit -- in an edit -- after my original posting. I confess this is not my most glowing and gracious moment at WHT, and for that I apologize.

However it was, sadly, actually done for a point: to illustrate to "chrisb" that people can do to him, the same that he does to them. Others can post his messages, just as he posts theirs. Others have "edit" and "quote" buttons too. Unfortunately sometimes there is not a more graceful way to illustrate such a point and get the person to slow down and actually notice what's being said. :emlaugh:

My original references to the "Dennis" name weren't mean or spiteful, and I wasn't "ignoring" PM's -- actually I was just simply unobservant. I don't use vBulletin PMs and I suppose I should turn them off. I read through them once every couple of months, and in two or so years here at WHT I've only rec'd like 5 PM's, so I'm not in the habit of checking them. :rolleyes: I browse through forums to read and post openly, and I converse between people via ICQ and e-mail. I am just not in the PM rut, plain and simple. It's nothing personal to any other user here, it's just a use habit on my end, good or bad notwithstanding. Here "chrisb"'s message had just been sitting there the whole time. Maybe if he had been nice about it, I would have removed the references to "Dennis" and that would have been the end of it. But don't sass me in PM's... I don't do that to anybody else. I've been here at WHT a long time and I think you guys know me better than that.

When you take private messages and make them public, all sense of "protecting privacy" is gone. Where is "chrisb"'s protection of everybody else's privacy? My question is this, generally, and not pointing to any one person (considering that we are debating WHT policy in this thread: How is it right that a person can slash and trash any person (or company) on a public board through the quoting of "private e-mails" to his advantage, all while holding the "privacy" argument high so that he can remain "anonymous" and therefore beyond any personal accountability? How is that even remotely fair?

I wasn't trying to be mean to the poster when I initially mentioned his name. I was just being personable and pleasant, nothing more. He made it into this big banner-waving privacy issue and scorned me for my natural friendliness. I am sorry to hear that he finds that aspect of my demeanor so offensive. :(

What was that about mountains and mole hills again? If sleeping dogs had been let lie, I am willing to bet that nobody would have even noticed... they probably would have thought I had simply "slipped" or called chrisb by the wrong name. You'll notice that everyone else continued to refer to "chrisb" as "Chris" even after I used a different name. Bummer.

I also vote for the IPs to be shown again. It really would cut down on a lot of the crap posting and :flamethr: less polite posts.




:D Bailey

Just another face in the crowd-->66.27.131.208

Excellent post, Bailey.

It's good to see some humanity on the web -- people often forget that there are these things called humans on the other side of the digital fence.

Sem

Originally posted by chrisb
EDIT: "mwatkins" went even further... he posted a full name. I'm still curious how mwatkins got another user's names off of my machine and posted it here, when that user has never posted here or been given to anyone? If you want to tell me mwatkins, please PM that info.

Honestly, if you don't want certain things to be made public, then you shouldn't post them. For someone as concerned about privacy as you appear to be, you should know this. It took me about fifteen seconds to find quite a bit of information about you right on this forum. That includes the full name to which you refer above, which you posted, yourself. I won't post the link to it here, but it's not that great a mystery. No one got anything off your machine. You gave it to the world.

Exactly.

And for the record I am in favour of more disclosure, less anonymity.

Originally posted by Annette

No one got anything off your machine. You gave it to the world.
You are correct. My mistake. I had forgot that I had ever posted that here. My apologies to mwatkins. Thank you for straightening that out.

Hi Bailey,
I had 2nd thoughts about that thread, and asked the moderators to remove it. The privacy issue does concern me though, and I didn't think I sounded unkind; but admit that I wrote it in a hurry and was demanding. I'm only posting it here again because it is no secret since you already posted it; and I want people to know that I try to be fair.

<<MOD NOTE: Thread has been removed>>

chrisb wrote on 06-05-2002 07:49 AM:
You posted Dennis in your reply to me. Please change it to Chris immediately! I don't want people to know that other name. Thanks

Thanks Bailey for explaining why you did not change it.

Anyhow, I didn't realize that was Steve's personal home email address, or I would not have posted it. My apologies to Steve. I really thought it was his business email address, and assumed that it was well-known.

Personally, I don't see the point of posting IP addresses. We have moderators here that police the threads. Further, I strongly believe that posting a Company's name and address is much different than posting an individual's information. I.E, when I tried to email you [Bailey], I had to PM you, because I take it you want some privacy too.

Yet, a company cannot usually be afforded this level of privacy, by the very nature of opening its doors to the public. For example, when I open my web business, I will have no problem with people knowing my business address since you usually have to publish it in order to get business.

I really feel that many posters and much valuable information will be lost if this group goes back to posting people's IP numbers, and hope that doesn't happen. Yes, it may do away with some inappropriate posts; but the moderators have the power to do that now. Good posts will be missed, in my opinion, just because the individual wanted to remain private (for whatever reason), and I see nothing wrong with that.

It seems important to me that an individual's wishes to remain private be respected and upheld, if they so choose, without people trying to guess their motives and judging them for it. I guess a company could be private here at WHT too, but not if they post their company name or advertise here.

Originally posted by chrisb
. . . . . . . . . . . . I really feel that many posters and much valuable information will be lost if this group goes back to posting people's IP numbers, and hope that doesn't happen. Yes, it may do away with some inappropriate posts; but the moderators have the power to do that now. Good posts will be missed, in my opinion, just because the individual wanted to remain private (for whatever reason), and I see nothing wrong with that. . . . . . . Most that take the arguement to hide IPs, have something to hide. Simple as that.

Here's an idea: if you don't want anything about you made public; don't post in a public forum.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Most that take the arguement to hide IPs, have something to hide. Simple as that.

Sure, they want to hide their identity. What's wrong with that? A person could be paranoid or have several valid reasons for wanting to hide their identity? For one, with all the crazy people out there in netland, I believe that it's probably more prudent than not, to hide your identity.

Here's an idea: if you don't want anything about you made public; don't post in a public forum.

Interesting. I've always just considered these places just "forums" or "BBs" as in "bulletin boards"; but maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by chrisb
Sure, they want to hide their identity. What's wrong with that? A person could be paranoid or have several valid reasons for wanting to hide their identity? For one, with all the crazy people out there in netland, I believe that it's probably more prudent than not, to hide your identity.. . . . . . .You can attempt to justify it any way you want. I like security as much as anyone. But, I'm all for displaying IPs on this forum. There'd be a lot less whining and useless threads. And you would have the choice to *not* post. I suppose this discussion would be better served in the Suggestions Forum.Originally posted by chrisb
. . . . . . . . I've always just considered these places just "forums" or "BBs" as in "bulletin boards"; but maybe that's just me. :rolleyes:

Technology offers people a way to communicate while cloacked behind screens and terminals and aliases -- but could modern democratic societies have been built while 'hiding' ?

Even in an oppressive society, those wanting to institute change have to at some point come into broad public view. Yes, this can be dangerous and it takes courage to communicate out in the open, but the rewards outweigh the disadvantages in the long run in my opinion.

Transparency is a good thing. You know who your dealing with, where they are coming from, and can judge then accordingly. Our stock markets and government could sure benefit from more openness and transparency.

Anonymity is fairly achievable but generally seems wrong to me.

PS: I would not be concerned about good quality postings diminishing because of lack of anonymity; quite the opposite - anonymity invites higher levels of bad behaviour, which certainly is a deterrent to anyone who has an honest desire to contribute to a community of any sort.

Originally posted by mwatkins
Transparency is a good thing. You know who your dealing with, where they are coming from, and can judge then accordingly. Our stock markets and government could sure benefit from more openness and transparency.


I honestly don't find that to be a valid comparison. I mean, c'mon here. We're not talking about building governments in this forum, or anything nearly that important. JFYI, I work some in politics and am well-known in my community; yet the web is a whole different ballgame.

SoftwareRevue: Why should this be moved to the "suggestions" forum. It's not a suggestion, it's a discussion. Maybe I've missed something, but you insist that your against anonymity, yet isn't the name "SoftwareRevue" anonymous? I mean it's obviously not your real name. On another note... the only choice you give me is to *not* post, if I don't like it? :) Well, OK. I think it's obvious that if the IP rule was made here that I'd have the choice of posting or not posting. Also, you say a previous thread would not have been made if people's IPs were mandated. How do you know that?

I realize we're on opposite sides on this issue; but the reasons I've seen posted so far for enforcing the posting of individual IPs, seem a bit narrow-minded and judgmental to me.

EDIT: I just noticed you hosting address in your sig, so you run a hosting business. Perhaps, that explains why you are against anonymity for individuals.

Originally posted by chrisb
. . . . . . .SoftwareRevue: Why should this be moved to the "suggestions" forum. It's not a suggestion, it's a discussion. Maybe I've missed something, but you insist that your against anonymity, yet isn't the name "SoftwareRevue" anonymous?. . . .Not talking about moving this thread. Talking about the IP issue. I think it's something the new owners should consider. What's 'this' thread about; anyway? You got mad because someone mentioned your real name. Mine's Dennis. I couldn't have it when I first got to this forum. I had to choose something else. It doesn't bother me who knows it. I sign all my PMs with it. I realize we can't all be the "critical thinker." But, I'm trying to figure out the difference between a critical thinker, and a troll.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
I'm trying to figure out the difference between a critical thinker, and a troll.

Sorry. I thought we could have an intelligent discussion here without stabs of sarcasm or insults. Obviously, I was wrong. I will not discuss this any further with you.

Originally posted by chrisb


As an individual in a forum, I have a right to preserve my anonymity if I so choose. A company is different. VO is a company who specifically CHOOSES to post their email addresses and identities. VO posted my other machine names that have never been posted on this board. By their own admission, they did it again, even after I specifically asked them not to. What kind of company would allow one of their employees to do that?

you don't have that right, and from what I would understand, it might just be a privilage.

But what VO did is something you should take as a matter of whom you do business with and the terms and agreement.

I for one have a policy of never mentioning my clients, And never ever talking about what they do by name. Privacy is very important. Sad thing is, I have the best "thank you" and "keep up the good work " letter. but policy is policy. if you don't follow the rules, your name will be draged in mud.

Mike

What happend to the Data Protection Act :eek:

Originally posted by chrisb

I honestly don't find that to be a valid comparison. I mean, c'mon here. We're not talking about building governments in this forum, or anything nearly that important. JFYI, I work some in politics and am well-known in my community; yet the web is a whole different ballgame.


I disagree.

I think "openness" is a way of living and don't see why its more or less right in one setting than another. I don't hide my on-line identity anywhere, and I'm very active in a number of on-line communities as well as a major political party in my country.

I am in favour of protecting email addresses and phone numbers. I get too much spam as it is. But to know that I am Mike Watkins from Vancouver BC, no problem.

Originally posted by ADEhost

I for one have a policy of never mentioning my clients, And never ever talking about what they do by name. Privacy is very important. Sad thing is, I have the best "thank you" and "keep up the good work " letter.
Mike

Good to hear, Mike. That's a good policy. No, I did not like it when a different username that has never used here was posted. I did note that the owner of VO did not do that when he posted. He addressed me by the name that I use here. Their tech didn't seem to understand that though. It wasn't relevant that there are probably thousands of people with that username, and that it was still fairly anonymous. The point was that username has never been posted here, and they got it from my email. For me, it was a matter of trust and I felt that was violated.

Further, it made me look like I use several names and am dishonest, which is not the case.



...but policy is policy. if you don't follow the rules, your name will be draged in mud.

Are you saying that if someone did not follow your rules that you would expose them?

Originally posted by mwatkins


I disagree.

I think "openness" is a way of living and don't see why its more or less right in one setting than another. I don't hide my on-line identity anywhere, and I'm very active in a number of on-line communities as well as a major political party in my country.

I am in favour of protecting email addresses and phone numbers. I get too much spam as it is. But to know that I am Mike Watkins from Vancouver BC, no problem.

Fair enough. I agree to disagree.:)

Yeah, we all get way too much spam.

I guess the privacy thing really needs to be separated. There are different levels of desired privacy and/or anonymity. You say that you are "in favour of protecting email addresses and phone numbers". That tells me that you DO want a certain level of privacy.

BTW, you may wish to re-think this. From having done investigative work in the past, I can tell you this: if someone knows your name and town, it's not that difficult these days for them to be able to get your street address and phone number (even if it's unlisted); though Watkins appears to be a common name. Do you really want someone on the net to know where you live and your home phone number?

what you have to ask is do they really want my phone number? do you REALYYYYY want to bug me on the phone. you dont know what sorta person i am. i could be the sorta person who has an airhorn next to the phone for telesales people. i could be the sorta person that would take serious offense to it and come after you and your family and your families family and their friends and their pets. you could annoy me and find a bit worse then a bunny on the stove ;)
it goes two ways, i think people should be accountable to some extent for what they say. if people have freedom to say what they want they have the responsibility to be help to account for their actions. i could publish those photoes of you and that goat on here and youd be pretty upset and want to know who i was so you could get some enlargements done ;) i understand your upset about it because you hadnt really considered the exposure of your name etc and a company should reveal uniquely identifying information without consent as this would be a breach of the DPA but to some extent we have to be able to keep track of whose saying what and who is really someone else.

Originally posted by richy
i could publish those photoes of you and that goat on here and youd be pretty upset and want to know who i was so you could get some enlargements done ;)

LOL... yes, I would definitely want that "goat" enlarged. :)


i understand your upset about it because you hadnt really considered the exposure of your name etc and a company should reveal uniquely identifying information without consent as this would be a breach of the DPA but to some extent we have to be able to keep track of whose saying what and who is really someone else.

Did you mean to state "should NOT reveal uniquely" above?

lol yes sorry. trying to do too much at one lol. these photoes dont get published themselves.

i really would feel sorry for any poor bugger that decided to bug me on the phone if i was having a bad day. im sure there are plenty of other similarly sick minded individuals out there that would take it as an oppertunity to practice a little home surgery on whatever freak decided to annoy us. phone numbers can be changed. numbers can be traced and blocked, are they so confident i can put the organs back in the right order?

Originally posted by richy
i really would feel sorry for any poor bugger that decided to bug me on the phone if i was having a bad day. im sure there are plenty of other similarly sick minded individuals out there that would take it as an oppertunity to practice a little home surgery on whatever freak decided to annoy us. phone numbers can be changed. numbers can be traced and blocked, are they so confident i can put the organs back in the right order?

Yes, phone numbers can be traced (though not always) and blocked too; but what if the annoyer keeps going to different payphones and calling. Maybe they left a trace, maybe not.

Even if you can trace them, what if you've had the same number for
over 20 years and don't want to change it OR go thru the hassle of reporting it, etc. I just prefer to try and prevent things before they happen, rather than the possibility of having to deal with them later.

Let's say they didn't get your phone numbers, but just your home address. No matter how "bad" you or anyone else might be, a deranged person still might find you, do damage, and leave an untraceable path.

Originally posted by richy
i really would feel sorry for any poor bugger that decided to bug me on the phone if i was having a bad day. im sure there are plenty of other similarly sick minded individuals out there that would take it as an oppertunity to practice a little home surgery on whatever freak decided to annoy us. phone numbers can be changed. numbers can be traced and blocked, are they so confident i can put the organs back in the right order?

Yes, phone numbers can be traced (though not always) and blocked too; but what if the annoyer keeps going to different payphones and calling. Maybe they left a trace, maybe not.

Even if you can trace them, what if you've had the same number for over 20 years and don't want to change it OR go thru the hassle of reporting it, etc. I just prefer to try and prevent things before they happen, rather than the possibility of having to deal with a bad situation later.

Let's say they didn't get your phone numbers, but just your home address. No matter how "bad" you or anyone else might be, a deranged person still might find you, do damage, and leave an untraceable path.

lol yeah thats true but life is far from safe in general. no offense but my personal opinion is i leave paranoia to those that genuinely need to worry and take what comes. your right its not good karma to have your personal details screamed from the roof tops, but any nutter wants to mess with the caveman ill make them an appointment :angry:

Originally posted by chrisb
BTW, you may wish to re-think this. From having done investigative work in the past, I can tell you this: if someone knows your name and town, it's not that difficult these days for them to be able to get your street address and phone number (even if it's unlisted); though Watkins appears to be a common name. Do you really want someone on the net to know where you live and your home phone number?

I don't care. Not one bit. And why should I?

When I say I'm in favour of protecting email addresses and phone numbers what I'm saying is I don't want them easily accessible for every spam bot in the world to get.

But I don't really care at all, not one bit, as to people knowing who I am.

In my view the Internet is a failure if it turns into a place where anonymity is the prize rather than increased openness. There countries in this world that crave our ability to speak freely and openly, where people have legitimate reasons to hide underground.

I do not believe a free and open society can stay that way if people are continually hiding their tracks. And you can't dismiss my point by painting 'forums' as a small part of 'real life', since for many, and increasingly so, the net - email, forums, listserves, etc, is enabling a significant percentage of peoples communal interaction. For good or bad.

Its easy to picture my point -- just imagine how incidents of poor behaviour would decline on WHT if everyone exposed their true identity. There'd remain vigorous discussion to be sure, but everyone knowing who everyone else is would be a good thing, not a bad thing. Now expand that to all the communities on the 'net...

As yourself this: in modern democratic societies, how many people have truly legitimate reasons to hide? And of those, how many would take chances by participating on Internet forums?

The fear some express over this subject amazes me. Our forefathers stood up proudly to espouse their ideas - whether they were popular or not. Worthwhile discussion happens between real people, not false identities and avatars.

Note that openness and privacy are two completely different issues. I champion openness in interactions. When you choose to interact with other people that should be open. But I do not want to know what you bought on your VISA last month.