I've been evaluating both of these hosts, and here are my present findings. Please correct me if something is in error.

DATA CENTER and SUPPORT
VO has its own data center, and I'm told their NOC is at the data center. I like that. They also have more than one support person, and respond in a very friendly manner. Alan, at Splashhost, is good too, but only one person, and his responses are briefer, though professional and business-like. He does get your questions answered in a concise manner. I like that too. Response was good from both, in 4 hours or less.

PAGE LOADING
VO's website pages load slower for me than Splashhost (56K modem here in Tennessee, USA). It appears that Splashhost pages load 1-1/2 to 2 times faster than VO. Is it just me, or does Splashhost have quicker servers than VO? If so, why are VO's servers slower?

CPANEL
Splashhost has a link for CPanel demo, but Alan says he took Splashhost's CPanel demo down for security reasons. Splashhost offers more CPanel skin choices than VO. VO's CPanel demo works IF you know the login (demov:demo). Also, VO's demo says CPanel3 and they use CPanel4.8. Not that important to me, but it should be important to them from a sales point of view. I notified them about this 2 days ago, and I don't understand why they haven't changed such a simple thing, especially if they have a team of webmasters, as they say.

Further, VO seems to be missing some things on their CPanel such as SpamAssassin, and their WHM demo is not working. Why do so many hosts have problems keeping their CPanel/WHM demo up? It would seem important to me to keep the demo always working.

SSL
VO offers shared SSL. Splashhost does not, but Alan says he is considering it in their forum. VO uses Thawte which is good. Neither states whether you can use a generic (unsigned) certificate and install it yourself OR if they will do it for you free of charge.

FEATURES
VO may offer more features in its plans than SH (Splashhost). It's hard to tell because SH doesn't appear to list all of its features on its plan comparison page.

WEBSITE INFO
VO's website is better and more thorough than SH (sorry, Alan). SH doesn't even have a FAQ. SH does offer a BB with pre-sales questions. However, it seems to me that pre-sales questions are best put in a FAQ, and that you should not have to go to a Bulletin Board forum looking for answers.

SUGGESTIONS
VO states that "you'll be pretty much anonymous" with your own nameservers. The use of the phrase "pretty much" is very bad in this instance. Most resellers demand 100% anonymity. Both hosts should clarify on their reseller page that if you are a reseller, using your own DNS, whether you will have untraceable ftp, mail, error messages, etc. IOW, they need to state if 100% anonymity is possible with their reseller plans, and what you have to buy or do in order to achieve that.

Splashhost needs a FAQ, and VO's FAQ could be more thorough, though it isn't bad.

Hope I wasn't too hard on you ;)

I believe Splash Host has quite a few servers in different data centers. Both have pretty much the same features since they both use Cpanel.

100% anonymity is impossible, which is why they said "pretty much" anonymous.

I never been to SH, but I use to help this guy on a site who was hosted on VO. I was impressed, that actually was the first hosting company I liked out of 15 I tried the first time. They are good hosts, from my experience.

It's hard to compare these 2 hosts. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Slashhost is the smaller, [outsourced servers, home based etc] and you'll probably get more personal and possibly faster support. Server performance will probably be the same. VO is in the next step up with their own datacenter.

There are advantages and disadvatages to both business models. VO have a different type of reseller plan too. Spashhost.com's reseller plan lets you setup the domains yourself in the WebHost Manager software. I think they limit the number of domains per WHM account too.

It just depends on whether you want an apple or an orange. :)

I don’t think you mean 1st impression, because it must have taken you a while to get all that down...

I use SH now and I think Alan does an excellent job. I would agree with the lack of FAQ's, but defiantly makes up for it with quick responses in from the support desk and the message forum, where the users are very active. There is even a plan to create a brandable FAQ system for SH and it’s resellers. One thing I have noticed, is that SH seems to have a lot of resellers, which is a fun environment and most of the questions, would not be something that is generally n FAQ’s.

I mainly choose SH over the other hosting co’s, and VO was one of them, because of what the users had said about the company. The users and Alan himself are always admitting to the good and improving parts of the company, so you are always aware of what is going on.

:)

Originally posted by ToastyX
I believe Splash Host has quite a few servers in different data centers. Both have pretty much the same features since they both use Cpanel.

100% anonymity is impossible, which is why they said "pretty much" anonymous.

I guess I have a problem with the phrase "pretty much"... seems vague, but maybe that's just me.

Why is 100% anonymity impossible? If it is, can't they at least tell you the ways that your anonymity might be revealed, or what bases they can't cover? That would be nice.

There can be quite a few differences in what CPanel hosts offer, btw.

I'd still like to know if VO's servers are really slower than Splashhosts? Anyone got an opinion on this?

Sarah: Thanks for your recommendation. I don't know whether to take your advice or not... last time I listened to a woman I got into trouble. :):) Yeah, I should've said "investigation" not "first impressions"... LOL

Every host that I've had... that didnt have phone support.. ROCKED! And for those that had toll free support, they were not so good. So I for me, I didnt care about phone support.

I am not aware of phone support for SH. What Alan has setup... is the support desk will page him/call him if somebody selects a certain option and he fixes it.

When I called VO on the phone, they were really nice and I like the woman that I spoke with. So that was great!

What I'm not understanding, is that it seems like you need to be in contact with them constantly. If the servers are doing their job, than there will be little amounts of time you will need to contact your host... only during setup of your main account and misc. tidbits.

I've also come to notice, that by the time I report a problem, somebody else already did. The other resellers are really sly!

Originally posted by littlest
Every host that I've had... that didnt have phone support.. ROCKED! And for those that had toll free support, they were not so good. So I for me, I didnt care about phone support.

[B]What I'm not understanding, is that it seems like you need to be in contact with them constantly. If the servers are doing their job, than there will be little amounts of time you will need to contact your host... only during setup of your main account and misc. tidbits.


Thanks again, Sarah; but I respectfully disagree with that statement. If the servers are realiable, the support requests will certainly be less. I don't think I'm someone who needs much hand-holding. However, NO host has every question answered in a FAQ; and perhaps that's the reason SH and other hosts don't have a FAQ since you could never pre-guess all the questions, and will get emailed anyway. There are always going to be questions, and often there are problems that are unique to your account that the host doesn't know about until you inform them. Most questions CAN wait awhile, but there ARE times when you need a quick response... such as

EMERGENCY - "my SSL stopped working, why? I am losing customers fast"

GREY AREA - "There are files and directories that I didn't put on my site. Have I been hacked?"

non-EMERGENCY - "I can't stay logged to my WebMail. It keeps timing out on me. Can you make the session longer?"
"Can you load the MathPari.pm module for me, please?"

I got the phone thing wrong. VO does have a phone number and emergency pager. I could not find either of those on Splashhost's pages, just perldesk, ICQ and email... and LIVE support (I don't count that since hosts are always offline whenever I go to a LIVE support; and SH was offline too at 6 AM CST.)

Why is 100% anonymity impossible

Because the IP's will alwys trace back to VO in a whois lookup
and even if you have your own IP's they will link to you and not be anonymous.

Gordon

Originally posted by GordonH


Because the IP's will alwys trace back to VO in a whois lookup
and even if you have your own IP's they will link to you and not be anonymous.

Gordon

You specifically mention VO, so is this not the case with SH? I went back again to SH site, and they seem to guarantee anonymity.

I can't imagine any way they can keep end users anonymous
based on the Ip addresses being traceable.

Gordon

The IP's will trace back to whoever owns them. No matter if it is SH or VO.

they can find out. I think if you read VO's site again tho it says you can get your own SSL cert and stay pretty much anon.

What they are saying is if you want to use the shared SSL it is almost impossible to remain anon since the cert has the name of the site it is issued to and it is an open book for anyone to look at.


Monte

AussieBob: What if you want an "orple" or an "apange"? (a bit of both)... LOL

Sure you can compare, just like you compared VO selling individual plans while SplashHost sells bulk plans, etc.

Here's more on the comparison...

Splashhost appears to guarantee daily backups and VO doesn't. (I remember a poster recently complaining here because VO had no backups, and someone pointed that out in their TOS).

Unless someone can show me differently, Splashhost is faster and has more (15) diverse connections than VO.

Originally posted by chrisb


Thanks again, Sarah; but I respectfully disagree with that statement. If the servers are realiable, the support requests will certainly be less. I don't think I'm someone who needs much hand-holding. However, NO host has every question answered in a FAQ; and perhaps that's the reason SH and other hosts don't have a FAQ since you could never pre-guess all the questions, and will get emailed anyway. There are always going to be questions, and often there are problems that are unique to your account that the host doesn't know about until you inform them. Most questions CAN wait awhile, but there ARE times when you need a quick response... such as

EMERGENCY - "my SSL stopped working, why? I am losing customers fast"

GREY AREA - "There are files and directories that I didn't put on my site. Have I been hacked?"

non-EMERGENCY - "I can't stay logged to my WebMail. It keeps timing out on me. Can you make the session longer?"
"Can you load the MathPari.pm module for me, please?"


I dont understand where there is a disagreement? All the quesitons above are one that I would and have asked my host in the past. I dont belive I indicated that if your server isn't functioning properly, you shouldnt do anything about it because the server "works most of the time". The support request are less and they are just tibits... TIBITS meaning not major HULL SHAKING... life threating situtions. Lets not forget that I mean this lightly, because we all know... anything can happen.

SH's pager/emergency calling is intergrated with their help desk.

Originally posted by chrisb
AussieBob: What if you want an "orple" or an "apange"? (a bit of both)... LOL
:laugh: :eek: :eek2: :eek3: :rolleyes: :)

Originally posted by chrisb
Splashhost appears to guarantee daily backups and VO doesn't. (I remember a poster recently complaining here because VO had no backups, and someone pointed that out in their TOS).

Is that external backup to tape or just to the same server on /backup?

We use to use tape backups, but now we use backup to another drive and then to another server on all new servers.

Also, if a lookup is done against the IP block, it will often show that a company is a reseller for another. This is not always the case, but is many times.

-Lamar

I have only seen one thread about backups and that person lost data on a server that was not hosted at VO.
Everybody assumed it was VO because he has his main site hosted with us but in the end of that thread he said it was not VO that lost his data.

We do daily backups on all our Virtual/Reseller servers.

Originally posted by Paul L.
I have only seen one thread about backups and that person lost data on a server that was not hosted at VO.
Everybody assumed it was VO because he has his main site hosted with us but in the end of that thread he said it was not VO that lost his data.

We do daily backups on all our Virtual/Reseller servers.

I was mistaken. It wasn't on a VO server. Thanks for clearing that up. It's good to hear you do daily backups, though your TOS doesn't seem to guarantee it (yes, I know you shouldn't rely on the host alone for backups). Do you charge for restoring them in an emergency?

We do not charge to restore backups.

Chris your more than welcome to email me direct with any questions.

Originally posted by GordonH
I can't imagine any way they can keep end users anonymous
based on the Ip addresses being traceable.

Gordon

Is there a way to prevent this from happening? Can I buy my own IP somewhere?

Alan, will you please confirm if reseller IPs are traceable at Splashhost? I was reading your forum, and got the impression they were not traceable if you bought your own nameservers from Splashhost.

The point is that an IP block wouldn't belong to you. There are public records of these things and in the end, if someone really wants to dig, they will most likely realize that you aren't the main man, however often it is hidden pretty well so it can't really be determined where you are.

Personally, I don't feel that you should lie to people about being a reseller (not that you were going to), and if someone is a deep digger, they will either be smart enough to realize you're a reseller and ask you about it. No biggie...

agree with chicken - some customers will find out and unless the IP block is assigned to you then it will always show as the datacenters IP such as Inflow or Net Access Corporation.

We have resellers who are concerned with anonymity and I always say to them how would they feel if their supplier tried to conceal their true status from them, making them believe they own the datacenter when in fact they rent servers from where ever is cheapest that week and run the business on pocket money in their mom's basement?

We colo our servers and the IP block is assigned to us so if one of our resellers customers did a lookup on the IP they would see its ours.

Resellers usuallu have a USP which is why their customers go with them and they shouldn't feel the need to hide anything

Anonymity is impossible on a reseller account.

1- IP address traces
2- Mail server headers on mails
3- Ftp server login texts and messages
4- Server name on control panel login (Cpanel for example)

and many more.

In fact you must own a dedicated server to be able to maintain a real anonymity. Even with some companies this is not enough.

For example Burst.net insists to set its own DNS servers (hostnoc.com) on dedicated servers in their datacenter. Some others insist on setting reverse lookup records to point to datacenter name.

You see it is very hard to do this.

Mac

Actually, we allow server owners to set up whatever settings they need on their servers...hostnoc.net is just the default.

We try and keep our resellers/servers as anonymous as possible, all ARIN IP regs and traceroutes go thru hostnoc.net, which we try and leave as anonymous as possible. Enough research will always alow somebody to find the controlling NOC, but we always do everything we can to keep anonimity.

Sean R.
BurstNET

Originally posted by chrisb
Alan, will you please confirm if reseller IPs are traceable at Splashhost? I was reading your forum, and got the impression they were not traceable if you bought your own nameservers from Splashhost. All IP addresses are assigned by an agency called ARIN (American Registry for Internet Numbers: www.arin.net). You can think of ARIN as the InterNIC for IP addresses. They maintain a database of which IP addresses are assigned to which organizations. Obviously you can see the value of such a system; if this database did not exist, then any organization could simply start using any IP addresses they wanted, and there would be no way to tell who was the rightful owner of those IPs. Trying to get IP addresses that are not listed in ARIN would be like trying to get a domain name that was not listed with InterNIC--it wouldn't work very well.

Generally speaking, only large providers are assigned their own IP address space. The minimum request is generally a /20, which is 16 class C's (over 4000 IP addresses)--and you have be able to justify that request. So you need to be using a lot of IPs in order to even make a request. In addition, you can't just be using a lot of IPs and send in an IP address request--you pretty much have to maintain your own network, which generally requires that you have your own router and a proficient network administrator.

It is for this reason that most resellers, dedicated server owners and co-location customers do not have their own IP address space. The IP addresses used by these customers usually belong to the company that owns the data center in which the hardware itself is located--because they are the only ones who maintain their own network and can justify a request for IP addresses from ARIN.

I hope that clears up the IP address issue, and explains why providers (yes--even Splash host) are unable to hide this information. You can use this form to find out who a specific IP address is registered to: http://www.arin.net/whois/index.html

Matt,

A few months ago it surprised me to see your domain name on headers of emails comming from a mchost server :)

mchost had that dedicated server with you but why your domain name was on their mail server? (in fact this was how I found that it is hosted by site5)

Mac

Originally posted by wmac
Matt,

A few months ago it surprised me to see your domain name on headers of emails comming from a mchost server :)

mchost had that dedicated server with you but why your domain name was on their mail server? (in fact this was how I found that it is hosted by site5)

Mac That's interesting. Some providers have a policy of making customers use their domain name as the hostname for their servers (like customer.site5.com), but we have never had such a policy. The server may have had a *.site5.com hostname when it was originally setup (before we handed it over to the customer), and that hostname could have still been in use by Exim (because the Exim process may have been running since before the hostname was changed). I have seen a few instances of that happening in the past.

However McHost is not a reseller, I believe they have quite a few servers located throughout different data centers--just to clear things up. :)