Could you go here

http://www.somethingleet.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16190

And tell me all please what i hsould do?

Thanx in advance...

Hello,

I just read the entire post. I would say that they cannot do anything unless they can prove that this was actually *you* who did this. Now you say that you didn't, and if this is the case then the logs should prove this.

Seems strange that they think they can try and charge you without any proof whatsoever. I don't think he will pursue this any further than a few threatening emails or letters. I doubt very much he will go to court - if he does I shouldn't think he would have a leg to stand on.

Most importantly, don't let it worry you. Concentrate on your GCSEs as they are the most important thing right now. They should be over soon if I remember correctly (some time in early July or late June, right?). Just ignore this until those GCSEs are right out of sight.

Remember, we're all here to help if you need us.

Jo

1. Ensure that all content on your site that isn't legit is removed

2. Take screen shots of all relevant pages on www.compila.com showing terms of service, pricing, etc. A picture is worth a thousand words. Don't rely on copying the text, take screen shots as well.

3. What is the file that is in question? Is it another companies copyrighted work, illegally being downloaded? Assuming you did not put it there, take the initiative to contact the company that owns it (the other thread suggests Microsoft) and explain the situation. You might consider having someone proof read your letter first.

4. Above all, be responsible.

Does that mean you are on the hook for > L 1000? I doubt it.

Even their dedicated server plans offer 40GB monthly transfer for only L399 and that includes a machine.

Their commercial hosting plans show unlimited 'bandwidth' - but its unclear if that means 'transfer'.

Their FAQ lists:
>> Do you have any hidden charges?
>> No. Our prices are genuine, the prices you see are the prices you pay


Now if you had a hand in posting illegal content, violating another companies work, promoting illegal downloads of such content, then in fact you are guilty of theft and had better fall on the sword and clean up your act. No use in trying to hide anything in this situation, since the trail will be there for more experienced people than you to follow.

If you innocent, or at most guilty of poor adminstration, good, just make sure you document everything.

Good luck in dealing with this, and your exams!

OK, im going to ask him for the logs and see his response...its kinda hard to concentrate on my exams now that i have all this hanging over me, i think my mother will dis own me...:( 2000 is alot of money...:(

I have taken a screen of their terms of service, and their pricings for different plans. I didn't have any legit software on there, all i used it for was hosting images...

There are always going to be swines trying to con you amongst other situations that don't go to your favour.

The most important thing is to know that as long as you yourself have remained 100% within the law, then you will be fine. That's what the law's there for. If you know you have done nothing wrong, then you have NO reason to worry.

It's all a part of growing up - you just need to learn to block certain things out and concentrate on what really matters.

:)

The TOS is a contract. Did your parents agree to the TOS? If not then they can not hold a minor to a contract.

But, you might want to verify this with an atterney.

Sorry to hear about what has happened. Again, I do agree with the others, in that some form of legal advise should be sought. I hope this works out for you. I can imagine what a shock this has been for you.

Good Luck

if it was just your details entered when you ordered the hosting then they dont have a leg to stand on, if you are under 18 then you can not sign a legally binding contract. let them send you an invoice, and chuck it in the bin...

Originally posted by HaZaX0r
all i used it for was hosting images...

Do you own the copyright for these images or have permission from the copyright owner to display them? He does say pirate software but this could also fall into the same sort of category.

1. You didn't receive the email from the company in question until you emailed them requesting your ftp password, which seems very odd to me as for L1700 I would have thought they would have dispatched an email to you asap.

2. Why did it take them until Tuesday to come to the conclusion that your site was using so much traffic if it was. Most control panels will dispatch an email to the sysadmin as soon as the monthy bandwidth quota is passed, which in your case should have been when you hit the 3GB month according to their TOS. At this point they should have disabled your account and contacted you, at least in my opinion.

3. You say you only had 150MB on your hosting account and that you had a lot of images on there. How much room could there have been left for illegal software to be stored? I would politely tell them I'm not doing dip**** without confirmed proof illegal software was stored on the hosting account. Also check whether your hosting account has anonymous ftp enabled and if it was you or the host who enabled it. If the host enables it as standard, then it would be bad server security on their behalf and they should leave you alone as it was them that asked for trouble in the first place. If there was no anonymous ftp access on your account, that would indicate the server probably was hacked and the blame would be with the hosting company.

All of this just smells fishy to me. I just hope for your sake it wasn't you or a friend of yours distributing warez from your hosting account, because then you're f*cked. Otherwise you should be safe...
Do you own the copyright for these images or have permission from the copyright owner to display themI doubt images would generate 45 GIGS of traffic in one weekend, and that's what he's beeing charged for, the 45 GIGS...

I just received yet another email from him...

Dear Mr Jackson,

> 1. To my awareness I had no pirated software on the domain of
ITRGaming.com
> so could you please inform me as to what directory this file was in,
and
> what the file name was so I can verify weather or not I knew about
this.

This will be a matter for the authorities to decide, this is evidence
that may well
be used, and I therefore do not want to prejudice and legal proceedings.


> 1. You can terminate my account, and I don't mind about a refund, but
> aslong as I can quickly nip into the FTP and back up my images for
both
> servers.

Your account has been terminated.

> 2. The bandwidth charge should be dropped. I feel this way because I
have
> received no email informing me of over using my bandwidth and in your
TOS
> you state that these are the actions you would follow, not charge the
> person.

Point 6 of our terms and conditions clearly states that additional
bandwidth
charges may be applied.

I also made your RIWonline partner aware of this fact and of the costs a
couple of
months ago, and as partners in a site you should have been made aware.
This
therefore stands as ample warning.

> I am also aware that 45GB of data does not come to £1700. My friends
> website uses 30GB a month and they are charged $80 a month.

We are not in America and charging rates are very different, and we also
have to
take into account Value Added Tax.

This fee also no where near covers, all the technical time that has been
spent
on this issue, or compensation for the hundreds of customers that you
affected.

Bandwidth is not the only and or major issue here, the fact that you
inconvenienced
hundreds of our other customers, is more important to me. Our Terms and
Conditions
clearly cover acceptable use. (Point 11)

I trust this matter is now at an end until you are contacted by the
relevant authorities.

Yours sincerely,

Harvey Raybould
Compila Limited

Can someone please help me write an email with all the points for me cause anything i write he just rips it up and throws it back in my face...:(

Please i really need your help, i have decided to wait until i know what is exactly happening. Please someone help me out here, i swear my mother will kill me if this gets out...

Can i just specially thank you all, your help has been rather supporting and i do feel slightly better about the situation.

I just looked at their web page and no where does it say the bandwidth you are allowed to exceed, so how am i supposed to know when im going over? It only says dont exceed 3GB if you run forums, which i was doing, but they were test boards, not open to public so its impossible.

Thanx in advance.

This will be a matter for the authorities to decide, this is evidence ...I thought the accused and his legal aids were entitled to view all evidence to be used against them, so this just doesn't make any sense to me at all. What harm could it possibly do to let you look at the logs for your own site, unless there's something in them they don't want you to see.

I must say they do sound serious about taking this to a judge, but it could all just be good acting.

And were your parents aware of the TOS. If they weren't, like Splashhost stated, you are still a minor and they can't do anything with you as you aren't legally capable of signing a contract.

Oh NO:( This can't get taken to a judge...Anymore help advice as to what i should ask next?

This is starting to sound like a scam to me.

Yes I think so too. Maybe we should invite this Harvey Raybould to discuss this matter with us... see what he's made of after some WHT action!

Would you guys do that for me? Feel free to email him and give him your thoughts, i need all the support i can get!:(

From a hosts point of view, this is why most of us set hard limits for accounts. If something such as this happens the account will freeze at it's upper limit. This host in particular fires my beans with their unlimited (but not really unlimited) policy. That alone in my eyes put me on your side.

I don't think anyone can say for sure what the real story is. You seem honest enough, and it might be just as stated, but as I'm sure you can understand, those of us that have been online a long time have seem some pretty odd creatures crawl out from under rocks.

However as far as I can see, unless you're provided with some decent log files then it's all just hot air. Nothing happens on a server that doesn't get logged somewhere. Programmers are a retentive lot after all :)

I think your handle may not be helping you here too much. l33t speak is something hosts tend to feel a cold shiver whenever it's pointed anywhere near our boxes.

As stated, forget about it for now, do your exams, and see what comes out in the wash. Should it turn out you were at fault then pucker up.

Greg Moore

Sounds like this host is trying to hide something. I would send him another email demainding for the server logs and any other security logs. Tell him he has 24 hours to conform or your atterney will be giving him a call. Also, this MIGHT be a good time to get your parents involved. Adults seem to be more experienced with scammers then minors. This guy is trying to take you for a ride and it will work if you don't get some adults in the picture. Also, is this guy local to you? In the same country? Not sure if it matters...

Originally posted by HaZaX0r
Would you guys do that for me? Feel free to email him and give him your thoughts, i need all the support i can get!:(

Post his email address, web site and your full name. I will be happy to invite him to the forum.

His Email: harvey@compila.com
His Site: www.compila.com
My Full name: Adam Jackson

Thank you so much, i really hope this works out because in my eyes ive done nothing wrong, he doesnt say what is the limit of bandwidth so how am i to know if i am breaking it? Like someone said, if his servers go down when he gets 45Gig, then he shopuld re think his job.

Please someone...i dont know what to say, your help has been great, but im guessing its going to the crucial point now...

Adam Jackson.

Maybe you could find us a link to their terms of service - I tried to find one on the site but could find nothing.

Plastered everywhere on www.compila.com are references to Unlimited bandwidth.

Even for Free ISP services they have unmetered and metered service, depending on the time of day.

I tried to sign up for an account but their software keeps stalling midway through the process. Was hoping to see a Terms of Use / Service statement somewhere and saw nothing.

It would certainly help your case if you had server logs already. But I think the bottom line is that this provider is leading people to believe there are no limits to the service - the weight of evidence on the web site easily leads one to that conclusion.

Illegal content, if indeed that is the case, complicates matters somewhat and perhaps that's the only issue that this fellow is trying to really call you on.

I tend to agree with the others, it feels like a scam / blackmail / extortion.

But as I said earlier, if you are complicit in hosting and offering illegal / copyrighted content or applications not of your own, you are in a bit of a pickle - although the issue is between you and the content owner, not compila.

I think you should be adult - come clean with your parents, contact the content owner, explain the situation, maybe even contact the police -- and cut off compila.com at the knees. They would hold nothing over you.

You might try documenting all this in as adult a way as possible and sharing it with the local press, radio, tv - or at least be prepared to share the info in the form of a detailed press release - share it first with compila and perhaps the issue will die right there if the man realizes that the risk (bad publicity) outweighs his potential gain.

Perhaps, if you are sure you have done nothing wrong and he still persists, a carefully worded letter to the BBC's Watchdog programme may help you out. This would at least save legal fees as they would investigate for you.

I imagine they would be particularly interested if someone is trying to con a 15/16 year old.

For all you foreigners: http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/contact/

Interesting some aspects of this, how it matches up

They are either a reseller for Web Fusion or have servers with Web Fusion.

http://www.webfusion.co.uk/

Here is a copy of their TOS: http://www.webfusion.co.uk/tandc.shtml

Interestingly enough Web Fusion have this in their TOS

Each virtual server includes a nominated amount of bandwidth, if you use more than this amount then you agree to pay for this bandwidth at a rate of 5p (five pence) per 1 MB.

Also their reseller package says

3 GB Bandwidth Per Month per Domain

Which ties in with the 3GB I *think* you mentioned.

http://www.webfusion.co.uk/reseller-info.shtml

From the Compila.com site:
6.) Monthly bandwidth allowance is stated as unlimited. However, if we feel that a customer is using excessive amounts of bandwidth, and is affecting the service we provide to our other customers, then we reserve the right to cancel their hosting package and offer them a full refund less any domain name registration fees. Any sites running mySQL bulletin boards, message forums or Chat services are limited to 3Gb of bandwidth per month. Additional bandwidth fees may be applied.

This statement is not clear. The provider is clearly trying to cap traffic generated as a result of dynamic (database driven) web sites - fair enough, this places a much higher load on a server than does serving up files.

If you split the paragraph up:

Monthly bandwidth allowance is stated as unlimited. However, if we feel that a customer is using excessive amounts of bandwidth, and is affecting the service we provide to our other customers, then we reserve the right to cancel their hosting package and offer them a full refund less any domain name registration fees.

This would suggest that it is up to Compila.com to terminate the account upon detecting that 'excessive' bandwidth is being used.

It appears that you are in a grey area however the remedy that Compila.com is requesting is well out of the scope of what is reasonable.

Furthermore, I suggest that if Compila.com is offering low rate plans that have anonymous FTP enabled on them, then they are infact as culpable or more so in exposing their clients - not just you - to problems caused by warez geeks and others.

I think you should start drafting letters to the BBC and all other such sources. Tell your mother, elist her assistance. It will be a good education for her, and you as well I suspect.

It seems a real scam to me. Do not worry. They know themselves that 1500p is enough for leasing a server for about a year with a bandwidth of 100M/month.

So I am sure they will not try legal things as they do not have anything in their hands.

They have advertised unlimitted bandwidth and according their tos they could terminate or at least disable your account as soon as you reached a specific limit (if any).

They can not charge you in anyway. Be sure!

About pirated software they must be able to prove it.

Mac

If you guys invite him here, and he still doesnt back down any, then ill go to watch dog.

Thanx alot for your advice, guess we're just waiting for him to arraive.

Regarding the pirated software issue -- whoever uploaded it will appear in the log, at least an IP address.

If you did not do it, the log will support that.

Originally posted by rochen
Interesting some aspects of this, how it matches up

They are either a reseller for Web Fusion or have servers with Web Fusion.




Perhaps you should consider contacting Web Fusion to get the logs if he will not provide them. Maybe just ask them to get in contact with him.

perhaps i should but id prefer to wait and see his response when questioned at this forum. HOpefully when he sees i havent done anything wrong and that his reputation is going up in smokes he should back off...

so ill wait and see what he does here, then if he still is trying to go ahead with this, ill contact that other place.

Ok, I just sent an email to this guy:

Compila.com,

If reference to a WHT member Adam Jackson the WHT community would like to invite you to the forum to talk about the excessive bandwidth issue and the so called pirated software you hold claim to Adam for violating your terms. Please come because we all want to talk to you about this pressing issue.

Click here : http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51968&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Here is a good one from his FAQ:

"Do you have any hidden charges?
No. Our prices are genuine, the prices you see are the prices you pay "

Does not sound like this is the case is it? Looks like there are hidden fees.

Also, where are the fees listed for extra bandwidth? If they are not listed this would this be considered a hidden fee?

"6.) Monthly bandwidth allowance is stated as unlimited. However, if we feel that a customer is using excessive amounts of bandwidth, and is affecting the service we provide to our other customers, then we reserve the right to cancel their hosting package and offer them a full refund less any domain name registration fees. Any sites running mySQL bulletin boards, message forums or Chat services are limited to 3Gb of bandwidth per month. Additional bandwidth fees may be applied."

This really sounds like it is not legit and I can not see where he has a case to charge you so much for 45 GB. Also, if he is a good server admin this should have been noticed when the site hit 10 GB! NOT 45! Sounds like he let it run so he can try to charge you an arm and a leg. I would move my site to another server and get some legal advise. In addition, take screen shots of every page on his web site and print it out! He might go in there and change things to cover his b*tt.

Man, thanx alot i really hope this all works out, i cant beleive this is happening to me 1700 is alot of cash, cash i dont have lying around.

Theres a few thigns id like to say about this issue...

1. I am a minor and because my parents didn't aggree to the TOS, i cant be charged for the Bill which Harvey Reybould is claiming he is sending me an in voice for.

2. I did not upload pirate software to my Host. The only thing i can suggest has happened as that i have had annonomus FTP ticked, and some hacker/pirater has scanned for open pubs and found my pass and sn, and uploaded this software. If you look at the activity of my web page for the last few weeks, i have had hardly any visitors, hell i dont even have an enter page, only a page that said we were under construction, so how could i have done this? So out of the blue to receive 45GB of data transfer is clearly not my fault. You should have stopped this when i exceeded the quota. This is not even mentioned in your terms of service.

3. You only stat additional charges can be enforced if a MESSAGE FORUM goes over 3GB bandwidth...seeing as i had no active message forums on my server then there is no way i can be charged with these extra bandwidths.

4. I think youve gotten into a bit of financial difficulty and your servers have went down, and youve tried to scam me out of this money. I am not prepared to pay it and nor will you see a penny from me. You can lock me up all you want, but i am not paying a penny for something i have not done. Even if i have uploaded pirated software [Which i am not stupid enough to do, why would i upload pirated software and get people to download it, knowing that it would attrack your attention?] i can still can not be charged bandwidth charges for that, only when a message board goes over 3Gig does it say you can charge, and that is not the case.

Thats all i have to say, and if this matter does not end i will be informing Watchdog and other Scam Schemes and informing them of your behaviour, i find this very sad that you seem to think you can scam a 16 year old kid out of £1700. It's very pathetic.

Adam Jackson

Anonymous FTP can be a pain in the ass and is a definite NONO for all shared web hosting accounts. Any hosts that enable or offer that option is really asking for trouble.

There was one day which I was playing a test non production webserver couple months ago with anon ftp enabled and within 1 hour, the famous wanadoo.fr guys scanned in and uploaded some olympic game. It was pretty fun though watching him upload right in front of me. I replaced each rar file they uploaded with a huge tif files of OJ Simpson. That was very funny especailly seeing the people come download OJ.

Though 1700 is quite hefty for bandwidth..................
I wonder what kind of server did they use......

Thank you very much for inviting Compila to join in this discussion. However, for obvious reasons you will understand that we cannot go into great detail.

We would like to make the following points;

If your web hosting company didn’t protect your hosting service, and your service was constantly being adversely affected by the minority, would you find this acceptable?

We NEVER have anonymous FTP enabled on any of our hosting packages.

This client’s site has not been hacked by an outside source.

We do not state that we will contact the client in these circumstances, however in this case, we had tried to contact the client on 5 separate occasions, with 5 different email addresses. Most of which were undeliverable.

This client was the co owner of another site with us, and we had this bandwidth discussion with his partner a few months prior to this situation. We detailed our TOC’s and the prices for additional bandwidth. The client at that time had already exceeded bandwidth limits, for two successive months, but we did not charge for this additional bandwidth.

We have server logs, datacentre reports and third party software that records bandwidth usage on our servers. As you can appreciate this is necessary in order to protect the service we provide to the majority of our clients, as this is our primary concern. However, we have had no indication from the client as to why in excess of 45Gb of data was transferred in one weekend, bearing in mind his normal usage was around 1Gb per month.

Thank you for your comments, which we have read with interest. Particularly areas such as hacking and warez. We hope these points have clarified our position.

We appreciate that some of you may wish to comment further on this situation. Unfortunately, due to its confidential nature we cannot enter into any subsequent discussions on this forum.

Finally, if anyone would like to contact us regarding matters not specific to this case, we will gladly respond to you via email.

Then why are you :

1. Ignoring legitmate questions and requests from the account co-owner as you say, for SERVER LOGS as well as the FTP Logs.

2. Repeated requests by co-owner for the FILE that is in question that you accused him of having that was "pirated" and not providing him with evidence of that file being located on his acct.

3. If he is co-owner, why was not all communications being sent to both owners.

Compila,
from where I stand, it really looks like you don't have a case, so I don't understand what kind of kick you're getting threatening a kid.

- giving access to your log files or excerpt thereof to Adam Jackson won't impair any legal proceeding since, if they really uploaded this file, they already know about it. You know that if ever you go to court you will have to make this information available to the defendant anyway, so I really think you're enjoying this.
- if you really plan on suing him, what I don't understand is why you stick with emails rather than first class mail.
- your web site is particularly unclear and you're making false claims on your site ("unlimited"); I don't know about you, but where I'm from there is the Law and the Spirit of the Law and even though you have a Tos that contradicts your home page you'll more than likely waste your money on this, so if you really feel that your business was harmed why no try to reach a settlement right away? And I mean something reasonable for a 16 years old, not some unrealistic thousands pounds threat. This board is filled with professionnals and we're really curious about how you did the math here...

Adam,
remember this very important rule: when sending an email, never admit to anything. Always use "maybe", "if" and so forth. Each email that you send to compila.com can be used against you and the main risk, being young like you, is to implicitely admit to much more than you actually did.

-Chris.
ps: what I am writing here is based on what was published here and on the aforementioned web site, so consider it valid only to the extent of my knowledge.

To "Compila"

Your words have some sense of reason and truth to them. It seems highly likely that there is a legitimate dispute insofar as the user consumed more computing / bandwidth resources than you intend for the user to consume.

However two issues are yours alone to address:
1. Deceptive business practices that Compila.com employs to solicit clients
2. Your handling of the situation speaks poorly of your ability to a) manage your own computing resources b) manage relationships with clients.

If the user consumed the resources in the manner described by both the user and Compila, then why did Compila not employ the advanced technology it claims to have to shut down the activities of the user before they became problematic? If a history existed, why did you not simply suspend or terminate the account?

Compila:
We detailed our TOC’s and the prices for additional bandwidth. The client at that time had already exceeded bandwidth limits, for two successive months, but we did not charge for this additional bandwidth.

What is disturbing about this incident is that throughout your promotional website there are many references to 'unlimited' ftp updates, email lists, email forwarding, and indeed, even unlimited bandwidth -- this is mentioned even on your 'starter' package.

No where during the signup process - selection of product, addition of personal detail - does your site ever reference Terms of Service. This is misleading.

What's more, the bottom of the signup pages references RSA Security yet the pages are completely insecure. This is misleading.

Finally, the user is deposited on a World Pay page, which thankfully is secure, but again - no reference to Terms of Service or Terms of Use has been presented to me - a potential client.

Why is this?

This approach to collecting customers is built upon deceptive business practice. Promoting "unlimited" plans that are in fact not "unlimited" is deceptive at best, fraudulent at worst.

Given the liberal use of the phrase "unlimited bandwidth" on your site its impossible to accept that the appropriate remedy for agressive use of bandwidth should be a massive charge as you are demanding.

More appropriately it would seem that cancelling service for the client and terminating the relationship is the prudent course.

In my opinion the user would be well advised to take this dispute to the local media and see how your business fairs under the eye of public scrutiny.

Each email that you send to compila.com can be used against youTo my knowledge emails aren't accepted as proof in court cases in Europe at this time. New laws are currently being ironed out to make emails valid evidence, but these laws are not yet in place as far as I know.

Adam,

Keep us posted on how things turn out. Honestly, I don't see where this hosting provider has a leg to stand on. However, if this does go to a court I would propose a counter suite to offset your time and expense. The judge or jurry will have to make a descion. Based on what I noticed on his web site I don't see where he can make any claim.

Goog luck

Tazzman,
I didn't know about that. They are proof in the USA and can be subpoened, so I guess Europe will end up doing this too...
But, hey, if emails aren't proof, then Compila never invoiced Adam, right?

Rsaylor,
I think you're scaring Adam even more now ;)

I am a tech support working for a company which I can't say its name here, else it will be regarded as spam and I am going to be attacked by WHT users ;)
I am not going to comment on anything about the legal processes and other things. Only about telling this to your parents.
I am 17 years old and recommend you to tell your parents about this problem as soon as possible without hesitating a second. I do not know how your relations are with your parents but I would definitely tell them, they will surely understand. Parents' love is something which is meant to be enjoyable. :) If you are shy or scared to tell this to your parents' face, then I recommend talking to a friend and asking him/her to tell this to your parents.
The last thing, the more you wait, the more difficult it is going to be to tell this and the worse the situation will be. Of course, if it turns out that this guy is just trying to make some money and if everything turns out in a way you like then you will not be required to tell anything to your parents. But what if it does not?
Anyway good luck! and think about your exams, my dad keeps telling me that I should let the PC alone and read my books, I have "Matura" exam, which is the exam of the 4 last years of high school and very important, something similar to GCSE.