Hello,

I would like to share a story about this web design/e-commerce site we have been doing for six months now. I want to know if we all think alike.

In December, we had this customer contact us regarding starting a brand new business. The customer wanted to go directly online had no clue of what they wanted to sell or how to even start a business.

We sat down with them and talked for hours making a plan, helping them start their business, and finding a product line. In matter of fact, one day driving I even came up with the name of the business for them.

January the design team started to prepare the design. The contracted stated it should be completed by the 15th of March. I like to give extra time so incase something comes up.

We integrate creloaded into the design, QTpro 4.0, and paypal all working properly. Throughout this process I had mentioned about credit card processing and how after they get up and running and sales in they might think of going to this. Well a couple days after everything was working properly they had ask to integrate this into the system. Well we did this job for free and something in the database ended up not working properly after it started to run. Ever since the point the design team, programmers, and database engineers have been trying to get it fixed it is now the 2nd of June.

The customer tends to think we did not meet our contract obligation and will not pay for hosting services for now. Well the site was designed and was working. In matter of fact, they hired us to enter in the 185 products they had. They paid for 5 hour blocks. Well it took 20 hours to enter 70 products. The client still wanted the remaining 105 entered in; however, they did not want to pay anything. We already did 15 hours worth of work free. And, they still wanted more.

At this point, they are complaining about pictures not looking right even though they were not provided in the correct sizes in the first place. That is apart of the contract.

I do believe providing the best customer service possible and making sure all clients are happy; however, I think I am going to have to let this client go as a hosting customer to avoid future problems. What do ya'll think?

This is where you end up without a good contract that includes provision for change orders that are outside the original specifications. I have to agree, unless this person is willing to compensate you for your time, you should let them find someone else to help them.

Hello,

As far as the contract goes it has a $75.00/hour charge for any additions that are made to the site after the contract. However, I agreed to do this work because we had just integrate one easily and smoothly with no issues on the database or programming side.

It makes me upset that she is complaining about how no one is buying from here and she believes its because of us. I have looked at the traffic report and no one has started to come to the site because she does not advertise.

You need to explain to the client that you have completed all of the work that you said you would and therefore she is obliged to pay - also make sure she knows how much *free* work you have put into her project.

It makes me upset that she is complaining about how no one is buying from here and she believes its because of us. I have looked at the traffic report and no one has started to come to the site because she does not advertise.

I design websites as well and alot of clients expect they can get to the top of Google within 24 hours... when you explain to them that it can cost $100's and even $1000's for competitive keywords and can take up to 6 months they soon rethink their marketing plans. Normally I suggest using Google Adsense... I have one website for a client that makes over $1000 per week just through Google Adsense and they also get telephone orders - suggest this to your client.

If they still do not want to pay then you can either take legal action or tell them to go elsewhere - but I know the feeling when you've spent months on the work for nothing. You could always try and sell the basics of the site to someone else and just change the company name and products etc....

Just my thoughts on this,
Liam

Yup, way to many people have this misconception that putting a website on the Internet and in a few days they'll be rolling in money. When in reality it takes a long time and a LOT of hard work just to get visitors and then build their trust enough to want to buy for you (them). It's really unfortunate and I feel due to too many scam ads that are out their.
What you might want to do is to explain this to your client, maybe even give them some ideas on both online and offline marketing that They can do. And very nicely tell them that you have already done "X" amount of extra work for them trying to help them out, but that you will need to charge them for anything more. It's great to do extra for your client (making sure you let them know you did), but you can't work for free.
Everyone is inundated with ads like "send me $39.99 and I'll and show you how to make a gazillion dollars in a week on the Internet". Too many people are gullible enough to believe that junk and few people understand business enough to realize that's just plain garbage.
Having a website today is a MUST for any business, but it can only be considered a part of one's marketing strategy. A major part, but only part of it.

Hello,

Yes, it does take a long time to gain customers. We had gone through this for three months when Biz Hosting Network started up.

She was a good client and I like helping good clients out. I have explained to her as she was screaming over the phone about needing to charge for more time to enter in the products.

She had already paid contract obligation in full and data processing fees. And, its not like I am looking for additional money from her. I was happy to do it for her but how she takes it anymore she's annoying the heck out of me. Its like no matter what you do for anyone in the hosting industry they do not appreciate your work even if your servers are up 100% of the time or customer service is with in 3 seconds for a response.

Yeah, those make a million dollars for only $39.99 are not cool. All the scams hurt everyone else like us good guys.

The customer wanted to go directly online had no clue of what they wanted to sell or how to even start a business.

Ouch, ya can't front money/services to folks like this, no matter how nice they are at the intro meeting. You're not only providing her with free technical services, you're conducting a Business 101 class for free as well.

What you could do is get at least half up front for everything and anything, and if you wind up having to walk away from the other half, at least you're not working for free.

If you can, build your business around sensible reasonable folks, and very politely let the others go. 10% of clients will cause 90% of problems. It hurts upfront, but it will pay off down the road when you still enjoy your business 20 years from now.

I have a friend who became a massage therapist in the early 80's before massage had really caught on. It wasn't easy getting started. And she decided on the first day she wasn't going to accept men clients. Half the market, gone. Getting started got even harder.

But she stuck to her goal, and for the last 2 decades has lived her dream, a great practice, with only women clients. She decisively solved every single man related problem her business would ever have, on the very first day.

Best of luck!

Hello,

That is a great story. My girlfriend tells me that I am a man problem almost everday. I have learned to accept that and she has learned that she will never be able to fix that. :)

As far as money goes, we took half of the contracted amount of front, on completion we collected the other half. She paid for all services of data entry that we had discussed. I provided extra hours because it had taken longer then quoted.

What ticks me off is how ungreatful she was regarding our extra work. We add credit card and inventory a day before it opens because she wants it and it would not work right because she still wanted up two days later. Ruined everything else as far as functions goes as well. If I was not afraid of a BS lawsuit I would have dumped this client a long time ago. Now in the U.S. you can sue anyone for anyting.

When doing work, documentation is the most important thing. Document EVERYTHING. Every meeting or phone call should have minutes/notes, keep every email, etc. It may be tedious, but it has huge payoffs.

If you ever have something threatening to sue or not pay because feature X wasn't done right, just whip out your documentation and say "feature X was discussed 2/3/06, decided this would be how it works, and that is how it works now".

It is not just to cover you in that respect, but also a great reference for yourself. As you are working on it, you may need to look back what was decided on something, and how it changed over time, so good documentation can greatly ease development as well.

A few things I typically follow when it comes to dev work:
- No work is free. Often, clients hold quality of service over price. So if it work is good, they won't mind paying.
- If price is an issue, don't offer it free. Instead, change the criteria. Lower your rate, adjust the size of the blocks (ie, paying for support in 2 hour blocks instead of 5).
- Any change in features immediate gets a cost and time estimate, before any work is done on it. Need to agree on how much it will cost them, and more importantly, how it will change the schedule. Previous schedule was based on the amount of work at that time. If the work changes, the schedule must be looked as well. You may still be able to do it in the timeframe, but should note what it is contigent upon and still the cost (like maybe to meet the deadline, you put in 50 hrs/week instead of 40).

That is a great story. My girlfriend tells me that I am a man problem almost everday. I have learned to accept that and she has learned that she will never be able to fix that. :)

Hey, if you and yours have that part figured out, then all is well. That's the real secret to surviving stooopid clients, having someone sensible to survive them with.

And for a modest extra fee, payable upfront of course, I won't share that solving man problems story with your girlfriend. :-)

I have a slightly different take on this problem. It all really comes down to what you agreed to and what has been accomplished. If you under estimated the amount of work, you need to take the loss and finish the job. Use it as a learning experience. If you have done everything you agreed to (even the free stuff), the customer should pay for the job.


...Ever since the point the design team, programmers, and database engineers have been trying to get it fixed it is now the 2nd of June. ,,,

As far as money goes, we took half of the contracted amount of front, on completion we collected the other half. quoted.

The customer tends to think we did not meet our contract obligation and will not pay for hosting services for now. Well the site was designed and was working.

Is the credit card processing completed and working fully? Are all features promised working correctly? Did you agree to enter all the products? If something is still broke or not completed, then you should be fixing it. Even if it was free work, once you promised to do it, then you should do it. It is common practice for companies to withhold the final payment until all the agreed to work is completed.



In matter of fact, they hired us to enter in the 185 products they had. They paid for 5 hour blocks. Well it took 20 hours to enter 70 products. The client still wanted the remaining 105 entered in; however, they did not want to pay anything. We already did 15 hours worth of work free. And, they still wanted more. ...She paid for all services of data entry that we had discussed. I provided extra hours because it had taken longer then
This depends on why it took too long and how you estimated it. Was the agreement to enter the products based on time and material - or did you estimate how many hours and/or price it would be. If you agreed to do it for an hourly rate - and didn't give he the number of hours, then the customer should pay. If you offered to enter the products for XX hours and it takes more, that is your mistake and you should do the work.

It makes me upset that she is complaining about how no one is buying from here and she believes its because of us. I have looked at the traffic report and no one has started to come to the site because she does not advertise.


Sorry, but, hahhhahhahahahah, I have to laugh. These types of clients are the exact reason we even include in our contracts clauses on marketability and no guarantees that the thing will get visitors. We've dealt with some oddballs over the past while... you learn and grow from them... learn and grow.

I hope you pan it out with them and can get them to understand it all... but yeah, might I recommend a clause relating to that in your contracts so you're covered even incase these crazies try to get extreme with you, in the future? :)