Can anyone explain the history of freeBSD and Linux, and then also explain why one would chose one over the other for their dedicated server?
Bradley

I'd go with FreeBSD. FreeBSD was made before Linux and it is more stable. Short and easy configs is one of the good thing I like in FreeBSD. Also I like there package manager - everything from sources.
I'd go with Linux only if I need GUI, in all other ways FreeBSD is perfect for server.
<edit> Linux is going to commercial soon.. but FreeBSD is absolutely made by people. Check http://freebsd.org for more information and history </edit>

FreeBSD is a great choice, but if you need a control panel, it's pretty useless (unfortunatly). CPanel supports FreeBSD, but dont even bother trying to use the FreeBSD CPanel/WHM, it's totally useless. I'd pick FreeBSD any day as long as 1. my admin was around (as he's much better with FBSD), and 2. i didn't need a panel.

Plesk and H-Sphere are available for FreeBSD.

Originally posted by ToastyX
Plesk and H-Sphere are available for FreeBSD.

Never tried either of them, any idea if they're actually reasonably functional in FreeBSD?

Originally posted by porcupine
Never tried either of them, any idea if they're actually reasonably functional in FreeBSD?
We have a customer running Plesk on a FreeBSD machine. I haven't heard of any problems with it from him. Installation was smooth as can be, too.

I would only choose Linux if I had to install FreeVSD or some other panel that didn't support FreeBSD (which is a dirty shame, more developers should develop for the BSD platform). Otherwise, FreeBSD all the way. I hate Linux.

I don't use any control panels I/we don't program, so I wouldn't know the stability of any third-party panels.

Also, people say they don't use FreeBSD because they don't know how, yet they use Linux all the time. I learned on Linux (Red Hat way back in the day). FreeBSD isn't that much of a different animal. Most, if not 99%, of the Linux commands are there (and enhanced!), in addition to the exceptional commands FreeBSD comes with. Now, Solaris! That's a different story. They like to make Solaris as odd as possible so you need to pay Sun for the training (in my opinion :)).

For those of you who know Linux well and are afraid of FreeBSD, install it and give it a whirl. You will be very pleasantly surprised if you give it a chance. It's Linux on steroids. It does to Linux what Linux does to Windows (server-wise of course). ;) Ok, maybe not that extreme, but that's how I view it.

For those of you who don't know Linux or FreeBSD, I would strongly suggest starting with FreeBSD and NO control panel. Control panels rot your mind. They are helpful only when you already know what you're doing. Otherwise, you give the CP full control over your box and when something goes wrong, you have no idea where to start or what to do.


Actually, for those who REALLY want to learn, start with Solaris (hehe), then go to Linux (things will be easier), then move on to FreeBSD (smooth sailing!). All with NO control panel. You'll be one heck of an admin after all that. I guarantee it! :)

100% FreeBSD, and HSphere works like a charm on it.

I would follow Alex's advice, with one exception: skip linux altogether. Er, maybe not if you want to be a marketable admin. Most of my learning was on SunOS back before System V R4 was out and it was a battle between BSD and System V R3, when SUN gave both the middle finger and combined them into SunOS which later became Solaris. Good days them.

Oh, the reason I would skip linux is because it breeds laziness in much the same way Windows does by hiding a lot of things from you. That's objectionable as well since it's primariliy RedHat that is doing the hiding (RPM), whereas I believe with Debian you have a much more solid and obvious system. FreeBSD is generic and will always follow a good set of rules for all releases, something you can honestly count on.

Enough rambling for the night. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Originally posted by allera
For those of you who don't know Linux or FreeBSD, I would strongly suggest starting with FreeBSD and NO control panel. Control panels rot your mind. They are helpful only when you already know what you're doing. Otherwise, you give the CP full control over your box and when something goes wrong, you have no idea where to start or what to do.
...

Actually, for those who REALLY want to learn, start with Solaris (hehe), then go to Linux (things will be easier), then move on to FreeBSD (smooth sailing!). All with NO control panel. You'll be one heck of an admin after all that. I guarantee it! :)


I agree on all points. Start off on FreeBSD. Learn the hard way. If you have long term aspirations, you'll be happy you did and far ahead of the pack that has to rely on someone elses control panel to do simple tasks.

Fortunately I was spared from Solaris -- I learned on DG/UX, which was always miles ahead of Solaris. Too bad the company (Data General) itself wasn't, in the end.

Those that know Soul of a New Machine and know what AOS is will probably know what I am talking about...

I learned on FreeBSD. It was not easy but with a little patience and help you can get far.

I am now switching to linux, because I need features not yet available under FreeBSD. I had a very hard time with RedHat, mandrake, slackware and debian. I tried all these distro and none of them fit my needs (when you're coming from FreeBSD, you expect high quality I guess).

Although I found an incredible linux distro that made me love linux, Gentoo linux (www.gentoo.org). It has a port system inspired of FreeBSD's, you compile everything from sources and it works even better than FreeBSD's port system.

Linux is a great OS. FreeBSD is a great OS too. The only way you'll know which one you prefer is by trying both.

Originally posted by porcupine
FreeBSD is a great choice, but if you need a control panel, it's pretty useless (unfortunatly). CPanel supports FreeBSD, but dont even bother trying to use the FreeBSD CPanel/WHM, it's totally useless.

Hm ... If you need a great control panel, don't go with CPanel. Go with HSPhere that will work flawlessly in FreeBSD/Linux and it will also support Windows too. CPanel is just like a kiddie program compared to HSphere. No offense meant to those CPanel lovers ...

cheers,
:beer:

Originally posted by smash
I am now switching to linux, because I need features not yet available under FreeBSD.
Which features are those? (just curious)

While I have compiled my programs under freebsd I have not used it very much.

In fact it was hard for me to find some commands and programs that I used to have under linux.

Once I wanted to set up a squid web cache (it needs port forwarding etc.) and it was a nightmare for me while I usually install it in 10 minutes under linux.

It was not easy to find equal programs under FreeBSD. For eaxample who knows what stands there instead of iptables?

But something that I love is its stability. I have never seen a CPanel/WHM on a linux to run for a long time without problem while I have experienced a server (Plesk with FreeBSD) which is up for the last 2.5 months.

I will go and try it again. At least i had no problem with a new system, programming language or whatever related to computer when I was a little younger.

Regards,
Mac

Originally posted by wmac
It was not easy to find equal programs under FreeBSD. For eaxample who knows what stands there instead of iptables?

ipfw is what you generally use in FreeBSD. You need to modify the kernel (extremely easy) to be able to use it.

Generally, FreeBSD has the same commands as Linux (and more), but sometimes they have different options, switches, and behaviors (outputs, methods-of-execution). If you run man <command>, you'll be able to adapt to the new version of the command rather easily. man is your best friend. :)

Originally posted by allera

Generally, FreeBSD has the same commands as Linux (and more), but sometimes they have different options, switches, and behaviors (outputs, methods-of-execution). If you run man <command>, you'll be able to adapt to the new version of the command rather easily. man is your best friend. :)

But this is possible if you can guess the name of those commands.

This is my 8th year that i work with linux and I am aware of "man" command :) but I am not able to guess "ipfw" from "iptables" :)

Mac

FreeBSD is definately the wiser option, it is more securer, and if you use the ports version a lot easier to keep up2date.

My 0.02 cents.


Imran

Like anything, an operating system is only as good as the person administrating it.

I personally would choose FreeBSD over linux anyday. Stability is much better, packages are almost TOO easy to install

cd /usr/ports/programtype/program
make install clean

It will even install all dependancies for you!

FreeBSD definantly has security as a priority. Linux is (imo) a desktop system moreso than for use in a production environment.

I would also stress to you, that IF you are going to be using your server for any type of hosting, and you are not fluent with the operating system you finally choose, do not leave anything to chance. Make sure you hire a system administrator to at least secure your system and show you the ropes.

It is fairly easy to teach yourself how to use an operating system, so you will not need them for every step of the way. Just ensure you OS is secure!

Originally posted by wmac


But this is possible if you can guess the name of those commands.

This is my 8th year that i work with linux and I am aware of "man" command :) but I am not able to guess "ipfw" from "iptables" :)

Mac

A simple search on google with the terms "iptables for freebsd" leaded to the #3 match, which is http://lists.samba.org/pipermail/netfilter/2002-February/019241.html ... there is stated :

"do note that FreeBSD has two different and completely unrelated firewalls, IPfilter and ipfw."

Well, guess your answer is there... boy, I love the internet ;)

Which features are those? (just curious)


Access control lists are not yet available on FreeBSD. There is work under way but linux has support for it in the current stable kernel. I absolulty need them for a project. This is the major reason I started checking linux out.

I have been astonished by the amount of projects being developed under linux. The user base is a lot wider and it shows when searching for software and help.

Also linux is more "marketable". I know many people will disagree with this point, but I think that it is easier to sale solutions based on linux, as more people heard about it than freeBSD. With freeBSD, you often end-up saying something like "It's similar to linux" or "It is just as good or even better than linux". I feel that if the customer has heard a little about linux, knows that major companies are relying on it, they will feel more confortable.

I am also having troubles with mySQL under freeBSD. It is definately not stable. I have to restart it every week because it either starts to eat all resources or seems to forget about all its databases and must be restarted. I am hoping that these issues will be gone under linux, as the mysql developers say it is the OS of choice.

Linux is also getting better and better and the development of the OS itself is going quite fast. I think it has a brighter future.

All these points are aguable. Linux has its advantage and freeBSD has its own. It depends on your needs. For example if I had to build a POP toaster or any other server that will be used for a very specific purpose (a firewall for example), I would certainly consider FreeBSD for its robustness.

Originally posted by smash


I am also having troubles with mySQL under freeBSD. It is definately not stable. I have to restart it every week because it either starts to eat all resources or seems to forget about all its databases and must be restarted. I am hoping that these issues will be gone under linux, as the mysql developers say it is the OS of choice.


Strange, I've had mysql/freebsd up for over 6 months straight without a restart so far. It must be your particular setup, I am inserting this here so people don't make false generalizations that mysql does not work correctly or even flawlessly on freebsd.

Yes, I agree that my comments on mysql should be refined. I was only giving my personal experience with it, your mileage may vary.

but in my case I have almost 200 databases on the mysql server and near 20 queries per second on average. I had no problem at all with mysql when it was on a light usage, but now I am having some problems. There might be some optimization and tweaking I can do.

Extract from mysql documentation:

Based on the preceding criteria, the best platforms for running MySQL at this point are x86 with SuSE Linux 7.1, 2.4 kernel, and ReiserFS (or any similar Linux distribution) and SPARC with Solaris 2.7 or 2.8. FreeBSD comes third, but we really hope it will join the top club once the thread library is improved.

I am also having troubles with mySQL under freeBSD. It is definately not stable. I have to restart it every week because it either starts to eat all resources or seems to forget about all its databases and must be restarted. I am hoping that these issues will be gone under linux, as the mysql developers say it is the OS of choice.
We very seldom have problems with mysql on the FreeBSD machines. It requires a restart here and there, but nothing serious. It could be better, but it's far from unstable. I had more problems with BIND crashing than I do with mysql having any problems.


All these points are aguable. Linux has its advantage and freeBSD has its own. It depends on your needs. For example if I had to build a POP toaster or any other server that will be used for a very specific purpose (a firewall for example), I would certainly consider FreeBSD for its robustness.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :) Sometimes you use Windows, sometimes you use a Mac. Sometimes you use a car, sometimes you use a truck. :)

Ok,

Can someone with enough experience honestly :) tell me if uptime of FreeBSD can be considerably higher than linux :)

Uptime is the most important concern of every webhost .

Mac

No one can really answer such a question. Uptime does not just depended on the OS, it also depends on the network, the quality of the software, system administration skill, etc...

Frankly, any OS can have an eternal uptime if you just boot it up and let it stay there without running any program.

My point is, you can get more uptime if you have system admin skill. Even Windows have pretty good uptime (up to a year or more from what I read somewhere eles) if properly maintained. On the other hand, I am sure any OS can be crashed if you put enough load and an evil admin. :)

Peter

ckpeter

I mean a good maintained system :)

My first serious administration experience was 8 years ago when I was the administrator of our university (Our servers were linux and Windows NT). Since then I have been network and database programmer and administrator of linux and windows servers in several places (ISP, Bank, Software Company etc.)

I know I have asked a stupid question but from your response I guess that you mean difference is not very considerable.


Regards,
Mac

Looking at your resume, I think you are very capable of either keeping a linux or freebsd server up for a long time. :)

(This is, of course, assuming that you take some time to learn about the specifics of freebsd)

As far as I know, in the hand of a capable admin, freebsd and linux are just about equal in reliability.

Peter

I have a FreeBSD 4.4 server which I am administering for the past 120 days without a reboot.

I dont use any control panel except qmailadmin and phpmyadmin for my customers and command line for myself.

I host a number of different web sites on that , some with PHP, mySQL. Most of my customers had a taste of CPanel when I was a reseller of Splashhost [on Linux] and were reluctant to move to a server without a control panel. But now, none of them would want a cp - based host.

FreeBSD is the easiest of OS'es to use. I would say it is easier than Windows NT to administer [because it hides nothing from you and you know where everything is].

For the past month, I am also administering a Linux server with WHM/CPanel [for the resellers club where 4 of us are sharing a server] and I can tell you straight away that FreeBSD administration is far easier. Securing Linux is a lot more work than securing FreeBSD [in my opinion] - and one thing I really dislike about Linux [may be Red Hat only , I dont know] is the kernel upgrade I have to do to keep it current.

In a cp-ed environment the admin has to tread carefully in order not to upset the house of cards a.k.a control panel. And as an admin and owner of the server I dont have any choice in the software I am using. I prefer qmail or postfix to exim and djbdns to BIND.

But I am forced to use exim and BIND because WHM ships with it. Now this is not an admin's job.. I am just a baby-sitter for the server and I dont like it.

On the other side, I agree that Linux has a lot more documentation than FreeBSD, but actually speaking the lack of documentation didn't hinder me any from admin-ing FreeBSD from the command line. The Handbook + onlamp.com + google.com has been more than sufficient for me!

But if you come to think of it, in a web hosting environment you are not managing the OS so much as the servers you are installing [DNS, MTA, FTP, dB and ofcourse our lovable Apache]

All in all, I would anyday prefer FreeBSD simply for the stability and peace of mind it gives me.

Cheers
Balaji