Ok got an email from Modernbill about the upcoming pricing changes. What do you guys think of that ?

http://www.moderngigabyte.com/modernbill/v5order.htm

Are they more or less expensive then the previous prices?

Are they more or less expensive then the previous prices?
Same prices, just now, we went from "unlimited client" licenses, to now limited client licenses.

Which is gonna get real expensive for people like Layeredtech who have many thousand customers in their modernbill.

v4 prices: http://www.moderngigabyte.com/modernbill/order.htm?ref=mb_h_9
v5 prices: http://www.moderngigabyte.com/modernbill/v5order.htm

I personally am willing to pay good money for a product as great as ModernBill :)

Which is gonna get real expensive for people like Layeredtech who have many thousand customers in their modernbill.

Of course, LayeredTech, being a serious business, knows a) that the cost of a billing system is worth it, if it provides the benefits it claims, b) works out at a one-time cost of 50c per client, c) is a fully tax deductible business expense.

Net result: nobody cares, as long as they are running a business that makes some money and isn't run from a spare bedroom.

Same prices, just now, we went from "unlimited client" licenses, to now limited client licenses.

Which is gonna get real expensive for people like Layeredtech who have many thousand customers in their modernbill.Maybe not. I have an owned unlimited license and they are still valid ongoing if you already have one. All that has changed is the renewal fees doubled

Maybe not. I have an owned unlimited license and they are still valid ongoing if you already have one. All that has changed is the renewal fees doubled

... yes, but how much is support renewal for an unlimited license...?

I wonder how MBLicenses prices will change for v5...

I wonder how MBLicenses prices will change for v5...

Uhhh ... did you click the link?

It's a lot more expensive in my opinion.

What does the newest version of MB offer that previous ones didn't?

--Tina

what do I think?

We started using modernbill less then a year ago and now have the choice of paying a 100% inflated price to keep our current package or accept a limited licence. Or of course use an alternative form of billing.

V5 biggest changes that would affect me is support for multi currency and a more streamlined order form.

What is dissapointing tho is my experience with v4 is that it does have noteable bugs and when you post anything advanced to the support team the reply is usually along the lines of "will be fixed in v5" or it remaines unresolved.

So will we start seeing "will be fixed in v6" for v5 support tickets, this I will be thinking about before I decide to stick with modernbill.

... yes, but how much is support renewal for an unlimited license...?
Its not bad -- going from $40 to $80 for 6 months

Uhhh ... did you click the link?

It's a lot more expensive in my opinion.

I meant MBLicenses as in http://mblicenses.com/. Yes, I clicked the link above, though MBLicenses is usually cheaper than directly through Modern Gigabyte, so I was merely saying that I wonder how much their prices will go.

Our new price list will be public very soon. We are making some final revisions. I can promise you, we will keep to our record of great service and lower prices.

Its not bad -- going from $40 to $80 for 6 months

$80 renewal is for 500- and 1000-licenses. Does anybody have any idea how much support renewal would cost for the Unlimited Licenses that some of us possess today, and which will be grandfathered into V5?

$80 renewal is for 500- and 1000-licenses. Does anybody have any idea how much support renewal would cost for the Unlimited Licenses that some of us possess today, and which will be grandfathered into V5?

I talked to Jon at MB on the phone for about 45 minutes on Tuesday . He is the one who suggested I renew now because in 3 or 4 weeks my renewal rate is doubling from $40 to $80 - his words - and he was very aware that we were talking about my unlimited license

The new version 5 has just convinced us with Modernbill.

Purchased an unlimited domain licence yesturday and the guys and girls at Modernbill have been nothing short of outstanding with their responses.

We have several thousand records to transfer into v5 as soon as it goes final, but just playing with RC3 makes me confident we made the right choice ;)

I talked to Jon at MB on the phone for about 45 minutes on Tuesday . He is the one who suggested I renew now because in 3 or 4 weeks my renewal rate is doubling from $40 to $80 - his words - and he was very aware that we were talking about my unlimited license

Sounds good, internext. I am a new MB owner waiting to put my biz into action once V5 is stable and fully operational. I just renewed about 6 weeks ago, so I should be okay for a while. Thanks for the discussion.

Honestly, I think MB worth the price. As it's not THAT expensive when you think about all tools and utility they've put into (only) the v4.

I think that the v5 will not only bring bugfixes but new and interesting features. Can't wait to see the new things :D

People would be very wise to invest in an unlimited license while they are still available. Under the new pricing, there will be no unlimited licenses and the top-level license will set you back a BIG chunk o' change.

This has actually been a huge cause of recent debate for us.

We just revamped the website, spent probably a good 20-30 hours customizing MBv4 to suit our exacting needs...

Now... what to do?

Stick with v4, where everything workse, and we don't need to do anothing more (well, most things work... some don't, but yeah, we'll leave that alone).

Stick with modernbill and upgrade to 5 when ready, and go ahead and grab the unlimited license?

Or just advance our plans and write our own billing system (this has always been on the plan, it's just a matter of timing).

There are a few things that we simply don't know if modernbill is going to take into account, or be able to support, even with V5. In the end moving to our own platform would be better, but is it best now?

It's a tough question. And I agree, the modernbill responses to support requests on V4 have been horrible. But... what really worries me is they have ALWAYS been horrible. They were horrible last year before the v5 talk, and they're horrible now. So who's to say that V5 WILL be any better on that end?

I dunno. I'm stuck. We'll figure it out soon. If it takes longer than when V5 is out and pricing changes... then I guess we'll start on our own for sure. :D

The big issue for us, is we do much more than hosting/domains stuff. We do software licenses, design, development, and like it all to run through a central place. V4 has proven itself rather wonky on a lot of those, so I dunno if we should trust in V5 to bring the solution.

Granted, a few hundred bucks isn't a whole lot in the end of the day, but it's still a few hundred bucks. :)

Maybe the real question we should all know is... will the grandfathered unlimited licenses be transferable? and if so... should we start stocking up anyway? :D

I dont think unlimited licences will be transferrable if they were from the old pricing, saw someone mention that on the MB forum.

The price increase is mainly in the renewed support area and typically going from $5/month to $10/month. I dont think that really warrants any concern. If it does then maybe you shouldnt be using Modernbill just yet.

I dont think unlimited licences will be transferrable if they were from the old pricing, saw someone mention that on the MB forum.

The price increase is mainly in the renewed support area and typically going from $5/month to $10/month. I dont think that really warrants any concern. If it does then maybe you shouldnt be using Modernbill just yet.
No, the price is not the concern, the many hours into customizing the look and feel (and still not being totally happy with it) of mb is though. Along with the many useless answers on things in V4.

No, the price is not the concern, the many hours into customizing the look and feel (and still not being totally happy with it) of mb is though. Along with the many useless answers on things in V4.

Yes, ditto. There are still things in V4 that don't function quite right and now we're supposed to believe that V5 will be the next best thing since sliced bread...and pay extra for it? I like MB better than any of the other solutions out there. But I'd like some assurances that they are going to do this thing correctly.

--Tina

. . . Which is gonna get real expensive for people like Layeredtech who have many thousand customers in their modernbill.
Who would more than likely own their MB licence outright, rather than paying for it by the mth or year.

What does the newest version of MB offer that previous ones didn't?
More bugs. :dgrin:

:eek2:

I do hope that the increased support costs does also mean an increase in support quality, because like the others have said their support during v4 was terrible.

The leased pricing has also taken a sharp rise if you want to keep the same type of license but that is probably also to do with in that it includes support.

No, the price is not the concern, the many hours into customizing the look and feel (and still not being totally happy with it) of mb is though. Along with the many useless answers on things in V4.

Its not like you didnt know that v5 was just around the corner. You spending that much time on something that was just about to be outdated was a bad idea. If you think it wasnt a bad idea, then stop complaining about it.

Im a new comer so cant comment... but ive found the team at MB to be extremely pro-active with v5 so far, im confident in them regardless of how v4 support/bugs were handled.

They seem God-like compared to Ensim anyway :)

I am looking forward to seeing the final stable release of v5.

Its interesting watching the reactions to the price change.

How can so many people be up in arms about a $25 increase in some plans? Would that really break the bank for people?

I'm just wondering, if you were to purchase for example a 500 user license right now at the current price of $280, would you be able to upgrade for free to the v5 version when the stable release comes out?

Its interesting watching the reactions to the price change.

How can so many people be up in arms about a $25 increase in some plans? Would that really break the bank for people?

The price increase isn't really an issue IMHO, the issue will show up if the increase comes without any added benefits. If a customer is paying twice as much for support, he/she should expect twice as much support from the provider.

Another interesting move is to not offering an unlimited version (or at least not giving out public pricing on one).

Well the price increase reflects the fact that version 5 is so much better and has a lot more features.

the more features they add to a product, the more development and support comes with that.

I dont think there is anything wrong with a software company who releases a *vastly different* new version of their software to decide that recurring support costs need to go up.

V5 introduces a number of new features, its not like they are charging more for the same product... its very different.

It makes more sense to have a tiered owned license... but wouldn't a better model be based on revenue instead of clients?

** Warning - off topic ***

The pricing increase doesn't bother me. What I would like to see is a slimmed down version of ModernBill. MB does SO MUCH now. I can only imagine what V5 is capable of doing. We use very few features of MB, and it really is overkill for us. However, we've been using it for years now and have thousands of client records in it so moving to something else would be a nightmare.

Modernbill Lite - I think that would be a winner.

Define modernbill lite ;)

** Warning - off topic ***

The pricing increase doesn't bother me. What I would like to see is a slimmed down version of ModernBill. MB does SO MUCH now. I can only imagine what V5 is capable of doing. We use very few features of MB, and it really is overkill for us. However, we've been using it for years now and have thousands of client records in it so moving to something else would be a nightmare.

Modernbill Lite - I think that would be a winner.

Or you can just remove all the modules you don't use like I do. Probably helps with security too.

One of the biggest selling points of v5 as far as I care is the vastly improved client experience. Using the standard signup sequence without shortening it manually is a real turnoff for potential buyers.

Seems like everyone is having exactly the same discussion as happened when v4 of modernbill came out. TBH its a billing system, it has to be rock solid. v5 is a total rebuild. I've been playing around with the v5 RCs a bit and its not 100% yet BUT it is a MASSIVE improvement to v4. Download it an check it out!

Someone was talking about the fact that they do development / licenses etc (so do we! infact thats more of our business at the moment) mb5 can handle this reasily, you can create different invoices: one offs, licenses invoices etc. Also with the mbapi you can integrate your development systems / licensing systems into MB... just pass a bit of xml to say create an invoice or whatever and bingo. Also EVERY SINGLE function is in the API (so its not a half arsed API) because the admin / client interfaces are all based ontop of the mbapi.

RE the delays in support etc.. I think that will get better once they have finished mb5, as they will have more time to sort out support issues. But then once you get to know how it all works I don't even bother buying the support extensions. I only buy them when I need support or a major upgrade comes out (security fixes you don't need to have to have a support license).

If you look at mb you can see that the product is moving on. From the "hosting company running in a loft" towards the enterprise corporate market. To do that they have to increase the price. As they are going into the "if its not expensive it can't be any good" market, and they have done such a good job on it.

Everybody just go a buy an owned license. v3 to v4 people were saying the same things. All those who got an owned license before the price change were laughing all the way to the bank. The others were complaining and cursing. Its your billing system!!! the back-bone to your whole company $400 (or whatever the owned licnese is now) is nothing!

To the guy who just finished redesiging v4... DOH! :) come one you must have seen the fact that v5 is coming?! we have been holding off on redesigning our site until v5 goes gold, admittedly we did start holding off over a year ago but hey.

But then don't take my word for it just download mb5 and take a look.

$80 renewal is for 500- and 1000-licenses. Does anybody have any idea how much support renewal would cost for the Unlimited Licenses that some of us possess today, and which will be grandfathered into V5?
I don't believe they've announced renewal/support pricing for unlimited licenses.

But there will no likely be a price freeze or "grandfather" price for existing owned license holders.

That's just ModernBill's way of saying, "We prefer to make just a little bit more money over giving our loyal existing customers something special".

Business as usual.

But there will no likely be a price freeze or "grandfather" price for existing owned license holders.


I was wondering the same thing about "grandfathering" since I just purchased a owned 250 license at the current $179 and the v5 pricing is going up to $279. I was told that they are honoring all owned plans and grandfathering them in. At the same time though was told that they can not promise that the number of clients will not change in the future, but it was made to sound as if there is no current plan to reduce the number of allowed clients on owned licenses. Sounds like all owned licenses will be good to go.

After the emails with MB I am glad I bought the 250 owned before it jumped up $100 when v5 is foically released.

What does the newest version of MB offer that previous ones didn't?

According to MB, the best feature (for me) is css and them dumping the tables. CSS is a lot cleaner, again, at least to me.

Other features (from their email yesterday):

View these new features below:

New Gateway Support:

VelocityPay
WorldPay
Protx
Internet Secure
New Control Panel Support:

Hostopia Module - Template Based Account Creation
H-Sphere - Template Based Account Creation
Ensim Unify - Template Based Account Creation
Plesk for Windows - 7.5.4
New Registrar Support:

OpenSRS
New ModernBill Exclusive Modules:

Modernadvertise/Google Module (http://www.modernadvertise.com)
SSLFactory (Beta module) (http://www.sslfactory.com)
New Features:

Shopping cart style order process - widget style.
Client side domain management.
Continued development on Advanced Accounting System.
Improved tax logic to accommodate European country tax levels per item.
Revised Tax Structure - Pay taxes per product per group.
Advanced Client Attributes
New Email template system. You can now create template groups for each type of email action. The group is composed of locale-based templates.
Historical Packages - Ability to Add packages on the Admin side.
New Graphs and Reports
ToDos. Now ModernBill can tell you what needs to be done next using an advanced ToDo feature.
Microsoft SQL Support
Ability to create a single invoice.
Ability to print single invoices (batching/PDF not suppported yet)
RC2 to RC3 Upgrade Utility
Database Support:

Microsoft SQL Support (New!)
Now we support Oracle, Postgres, MySQL and Microsoft SQL.

Continued Development:

Continued development on XML API aka MBAPI (ModernBill Advanced Programming Interface).
Revamped Installer.
Website widgets - extension of shopping cart.
Major bug fixes through an extensive Quality Assurance process.


Lots of interesting stuff, but, I'm looking forward to CSS over Tables, personally. Should make integration a lot easier :)

Of course, the fact that MB is now modular would be a good thing too :)

As for the new pricing:
As a leased license owner, it won't affect me terribly. It will (probably) affect licenses resold, but that's to be expected.

Good? Bad? I won't be able to make THAT call until I actually see and test v5. I'm not going to put my clients through another software upgrade prematurely, that's just pushing it :)

As for the new pricing:
As a leased license owner, it won't affect me terribly. It will (probably) affect licenses resold, but that's to be expected.


You currently pay $24.95/month for unlimited clients, with V5, you'll pay $24.95/month for 1000 clients. I guess you are lucky if that doesn't affect you :)

I was told that they are honoring all owned plans and grandfathering them in.

Did they mention if renewal/support pricing would be "honored" or "grandfathered"?

Because as far as I know... they are increasing pricing for everyone, including owned licenses. It's a 100% increase in price for owned 1000 licenses, and as-yet-unknown increase in cost for unlimited owned licenses.

:(

I guess you are lucky if that doesn't affect you

As a small business, it won't ever affect me. Whether they decide to count "cancelled" clients or all clients in general, this is still not going to affect me, at least for a while ;)

As far as grandfathering:
I'm sure we can't expect that, that'd be unreasonable on their behalf. Yes, it'll cause them a bit (note: a bit) of lost business, primarily in the larger client category, but they've got to raise prices, at least somewhat. Unlimited client licensing isn't really well enough supported by anyone any more.

Seems like everyone is having exactly the same discussion as happened when v4 of modernbill came out. TBH its a billing system, it has to be rock solid. v5 is a total rebuild. I've been playing around with the v5 RCs a bit and its not 100% yet BUT it is a MASSIVE improvement to v4. Download it an check it out!

Someone was talking about the fact that they do development / licenses etc (so do we! infact thats more of our business at the moment) mb5 can handle this reasily, you can create different invoices: one offs, licenses invoices etc. Also with the mbapi you can integrate your development systems / licensing systems into MB... just pass a bit of xml to say create an invoice or whatever and bingo. Also EVERY SINGLE function is in the API (so its not a half arsed API) because the admin / client interfaces are all based ontop of the mbapi.

RE the delays in support etc.. I think that will get better once they have finished mb5, as they will have more time to sort out support issues. But then once you get to know how it all works I don't even bother buying the support extensions. I only buy them when I need support or a major upgrade comes out (security fixes you don't need to have to have a support license).

If you look at mb you can see that the product is moving on. From the "hosting company running in a loft" towards the enterprise corporate market. To do that they have to increase the price. As they are going into the "if its not expensive it can't be any good" market, and they have done such a good job on it.

Everybody just go a buy an owned license. v3 to v4 people were saying the same things. All those who got an owned license before the price change were laughing all the way to the bank. The others were complaining and cursing. Its your billing system!!! the back-bone to your whole company $400 (or whatever the owned licnese is now) is nothing!

To the guy who just finished redesiging v4... DOH! :) come one you must have seen the fact that v5 is coming?! we have been holding off on redesigning our site until v5 goes gold, admittedly we did start holding off over a year ago but hey.

But then don't take my word for it just download mb5 and take a look.

No, not Doh. Check our thread in the revews forum. You'll see why it was needed. I couldn't wait 6 months more (for a truly stable, other host tested) version of 5 to come out to deploy the site. We wanted it *now*. :D

Granted, to turn around and have to do it all over again is going to be no fun, but, if you look at the old site compared to the new one, you'll understand. :)

We're upgrading anyway, just to future proof, since as I go over what we want for our custom system, I start seeing the months add up. We'll give it a run, see how it handles, see if we can get the hooks we want into it. If not, we'll go our own way, if so, we'll have our solution secured.

Again, it's not the money so much as just the general wariness of the MB support staff. Their programmers are great guys, and one programmer to another, their setup is simply genious for everything I've seen, but business wise they haven't been the best to deal with in the past.

We'll see how it goes. :)

As a small business, it won't ever affect me. Whether they decide to count "cancelled" clients or all clients in general, this is still not going to affect me, at least for a while ;)

As far as grandfathering:
I'm sure we can't expect that, that'd be unreasonable on their behalf. Yes, it'll cause them a bit (note: a bit) of lost business, primarily in the larger client category, but they've got to raise prices, at least somewhat. Unlimited client licensing isn't really well enough supported by anyone any more.

I just decided to take yearly snapshots of the DB and then clear canceled clients out of the current DB. Just seemed the thing to do. :)

Did they mention if renewal/support pricing would be "honored" or "grandfathered"?


I did not ask about the renewal/support pricing - just the initial cost and the number of clients.

Did they mention if renewal/support pricing would be "honored" or "grandfathered"?Like I posted earlier in this thread (posts #6, 12, and 16), when talking to Jon on the phone this past Tuesday, he suggested I renew my support soon on my unlimited license, because the renewal will be doubling (from $40 to $80).

From just reading Modernbill posts on their forum, I get the impression that they are trying to create more powerful, enterprise billing application that doesn't have to be used strictly for hosting. With the new API, you can likely implement any sales schemes you want, be it recurring, one-time, software licenses, etc.

Consider this, the new MB front-end is completely based on the API. You can literally build an entire custom application on top of their API or even extend their API (they haven't finalized their developer program yet). So in addition to new features and enhancements to current functionality, it seems to me like v5 is (or will be) an incredibly versatile application.

All in all, a modest increase in pricing is to be expected. Plus, for companies managing over 1,000 clients, paying for this billing system should not that be that detrimental financially. Managing 10,000 customers, it would make sense to pay even $500 or more a month for a system that does what you want. It's about finding the right value/fit for your business.

Well on my licence, i have a 1.00 discount :D

Did they mention if renewal/support pricing would be "honored" or "grandfathered"?

Because as far as I know... they are increasing pricing for everyone, including owned licenses. It's a 100% increase in price for owned 1000 licenses, and as-yet-unknown increase in cost for unlimited owned licenses.

:(


I was on the phone with them today to ask that specific question, and he said that renewal/support will not be grandfathered in, that when that fee comes due, the new price will be the one you pay.

I talked today to a sales person.

They said the people with unlimited client's will probally be upgraded to some client limitation.

The mo. price will increase and there where no WARNING to the price JUMP our new price module.


I found out when I went to look to see what's new in the new RC 3 v5 version.


I don't think I fell confortable working (be a client) with a company based on this actions.


Very very sad

I talked today to a sales person.

They said the people with unlimited client's will probally be upgraded to some client limitation.

The mo. price will increase and there where no WARNING to the price JUMP our new price module.

I found out when I went to look to see what's new in the new RC 3 v5 version.

I don't think I fell confortable working (be a client) with a company based on this actions.

Very very sad

If the above were true...

If they were to downgrade my unlimited license to anything close to "infinity minus 1", I doubt that I would accept it, and doing a chargeback is not out of the question. For two reasons: (a) I purchased an unlimited license for the MB product, (b) I paid/extended support in order to receive the V5 product upgrade.

To say that people with unlimited licenses should be downgraded to anything less than infinity clients, based on V5 being a "much better product and different in many ways", is to say that extending support does not guarantee getting a product upgrade. They might as well have launched V5 as a whole new product with its own pricing, instead of releasing it as an upgrade. Already, removing the ability to transfer the unlimited license is a huge minus, nothing more detrimental should be in the works.

Of course, I am jumping the gun since MB has not officially announced anything that the OP mentions. But that's my line of thinking, and my $0.02.

BudWay -

Are you talking about an umlimited leased license or an unlimited owned license? The mo. price increase part is why I am asking.

If they were to downgrade my unlimited license to anything close to "infinity minus 1", I doubt that I would accept it, and doing a chargeback is not out of the question. For two reasons: (a) I purchased an unlimited license for the MB product, (b) I paid/extended support in order to receive the V5 product upgrade.


Have you received your billing client? If so, then doing any chargeback is illegal, period. You paid for a billing client, you got a billing client. You didn't pay for v5, because v5 is not released yet, and it's not stable. IF you paid for it, thinking you'd get v5 for free, well, you thought wrong there. You know very well that they were re-thinking licenses, they've made this public for quite some time now. So, who's the one responsible for making sure you're up to date with payments? Certainly NOT ModernGigabyte.


The mo. price will increase and there where no WARNING to the price JUMP our new price module.

Once again, they have stated for quite some time that they are, in fact re-thinking the pricing of mb5. The first time this got questioned in their forum? February, so they made it clear as early as THEN that things werre changing. We certainly did receive a warning.

While nobody can speak for MG, can you, truly expect a completely new and fresh version for nothing? No, you can't. Welcome to the real world. You're paying for something now , and getting that something. You've even got the chance to test the new version for free, which isn't bad.

This is a very common thing here. Versions get updated, individuals charge more, and people complain because they don't want to pay for it. Well, someone's got to pay for the development time, and no professional company will eat that much of a cost, OR release a new product at the same price of the old. It's unrealistic, and unprofessional to expect that.

Have you received your billing client? If so, then doing any chargeback is illegal, period. You paid for a billing client, you got a billing client. You didn't pay for v5, because v5 is not released yet, and it's not stable. IF you paid for it, thinking you'd get v5 for free, well, you thought wrong there. You know very well that they were re-thinking licenses, they've made this public for quite some time now. So, who's the one responsible for making sure you're up to date with payments? Certainly NOT ModernGigabyte.


Once again, they have stated for quite some time that they are, in fact re-thinking the pricing of mb5. The first time this got questioned in their forum? February, so they made it clear as early as THEN that things werre changing. We certainly did receive a warning.

While nobody can speak for MG, can you, truly expect a completely new and fresh version for nothing? No, you can't. Welcome to the real world. You're paying for something now , and getting that something. You've even got the chance to test the new version for free, which isn't bad.

This is a very common thing here. Versions get updated, individuals charge more, and people complain because they don't want to pay for it. Well, someone's got to pay for the development time, and no professional company will eat that much of a cost, OR release a new product at the same price of the old. It's unrealistic, and unprofessional to expect that.

Actually MB always said you could upgrade for free as long as you had a current SUPPORT agreement (thats not a product license). They never implied before that you the product you purchased would have to be downgraded (less client licenses) for this to happen. To me, that is very shady and false advertising. Increasing prices for new purchaces and support is completely different.

Price of development? Thats called the price of doing business. Companies have to spend money all the time to get money, without increasing prices. So no, its not expected.

Have you received your billing client? If so, then doing any chargeback is illegal, period. You paid for a billing client, you got a billing client. You didn't pay for v5, because v5 is not released yet, and it's not stable. IF you paid for it, thinking you'd get v5 for free, well, you thought wrong there. You know very well that they were re-thinking licenses, they've made this public for quite some time now. So, who's the one responsible for making sure you're up to date with payments? Certainly NOT ModernGigabyte.

Once again, they have stated for quite some time that they are, in fact re-thinking the pricing of mb5. The first time this got questioned in their forum? February, so they made it clear as early as THEN that things werre changing. We certainly did receive a warning.

While nobody can speak for MG, can you, truly expect a completely new and fresh version for nothing? No, you can't. Welcome to the real world. You're paying for something now , and getting that something. You've even got the chance to test the new version for free, which isn't bad.

This is a very common thing here. Versions get updated, individuals charge more, and people complain because they don't want to pay for it. Well, someone's got to pay for the development time, and no professional company will eat that much of a cost, OR release a new product at the same price of the old. It's unrealistic, and unprofessional to expect that.

I do not agree with almost any of anything you are suggesting, but will not spend too much of an effort counter-arguing, since as I mentioned before, this particular discussion jumps the gun. But just to satisfy your curiosity, no, I have not started using the software. I had emailed my clients assuring them that they will be moved only once the stable V5 is released. And what did you mean by "being up to date with payments"???

If you accepted a job for $2000, and were told by the employer during the interview that they were "rethinking" staff salaries, I doubt you would find it unprofessional to demand compensation if they reduced your salary to $1800.

To be clear on this as far as I am aware anyone who has an owned unlimited license is going to stay that way, they just have increased support costs, obviously they need an existing support period to be able to upgrade to V5 on release.

Leased licencing is where the fun is unlimited goes down to 1000, there is a 2500 for double the price of the old unlimited and unlimited leased is now undisclosed. This applies to existing clients.

Obviously if you already own an owned license new pricing for new owned licenses wont affect you unless you need extra licenses.

They are allowing existing customers to buy owned licenses at the v4 price now up until v5 is released. But now the investment is permanent as they wont be allowing licence transfers so you cant sell it should you decide you dont want it in the future.

More bugs. :dgrin:

:eek2:

Without a doubt still waiting for an official worldpay/worldpay invisble module officially released by them. They cram more crap in there and don't fix the existing issues. We've been using it since 2001.

They are allowing existing customers to buy owned licenses at the v4 price now up until v5 is released. But now the investment is permanent as they wont be allowing licence transfers so you cant sell it should you decide you dont want it in the future.

And once your initial support runs out, the renewal will cost you a minimum of 100% more then it did previously....

:(

I've tried it and it is very good. I don't like the order form style though.

... You didn't pay for v5, because v5 is not released yet, and it's not stable. IF you paid for it, thinking you'd get v5 for free, well, you thought wrong there. You know very well that they were re-thinking licenses, they've made this public for quite some time now. So, who's the one responsible for making sure you're up to date with payments? Certainly NOT ModernGigabyte.


Just visited the MB site for information on V5 and saw this, so I thought I should post the link to clarify the situation and to stop any finger-wagging: :uzi:

"If I buy now, will I have to pay extra to get V5?"
http://www.moderngigabyte.com/modernbill/v5faq.htm?ref=mb_b_3

This echoes what MACscr wrote.

Obviously if you already own an owned license new pricing for new owned licenses wont affect you unless you need extra licenses.

Actually, it will most likely affect you, as you're not going to continue to have an owned "unlimited" license, you'll have an owned XXX client license.


If you accepted a job for $2000, and were told by the employer during the interview that they were "rethinking" staff salaries, I doubt you would find it unprofessional to demand compensation if they reduced your salary to $1800.

That, of course, is not only an incorrect statement, it's an improper statement, or comparison to the situation here.

Firstly, you don't go to an interview AFTER accepting the job, you accept the job AFTER you go to the interview.

Secondly, if you went to acept a job, then 6 months later were told
"hey your position is phasing out, but we're putting a new one together, JUST for you, one that will make your current job easier, but you'll have to take a minor pay cut", you'd have every reason to consider looking for a new job, but it would not be unprofessional whatsoever. THIS is what mb5 is doing. They are saying "Hey, we've made the job easier, but you're going to have to pay a bit more".

As an owned license owner, you knew that they were coming up with v5, you knew that they were re-thinking the pricing (they stated it, even on their public v5 page), so you knew that would cause problems with your owned license, yet you went ahead and bought it anyways. Hrrrm, that's just not smart.



Companies have to spend money all the time to get money, without increasing prices.

Actually, no they don't. Price increases like this are very common among software developers, from kayako to cerberus to modernbill to many others. Any business can not sustain a loss like this repeatedly forever, they have to gain that loss back, and that loss is usually gained back through raising prices for existing customers.

Actually, it will most likely affect you, as you're not going to continue to have an owned "unlimited" license, you'll have an owned XXX client license.

Do you have anything to back that statement up? As far as what MB have said, only leased unlimited licenses are becomming client limited, owned unlimited licenses are staying as they are - unlimited.

owned unlimited licenses are staying as they are - unlimited.

No, they in fact won't. Even to assume so would be just wrong.

Perhaps, during the initial support period, they will remain "unlimited", but as soon as you pay for that extension of support, then you're going to get a nasty surprise, because there is no more "unlimited" license. You will then have to upgrade (rather downgrade) to a non-unlimited license, or just forego support altogether. There's no "unlimited" option there.

While they haven't said that they're going to restrict "owned" licenses, that is just how it'll work out. Sure, you'll keep your owned license unlimited, until the time comes to renew support. THEN, you'll have no choice, whatsoever. You will have to go without support, or downgrade.

No, they in fact won't. Even to assume so would be just wrong.

Perhaps, during the initial support period, they will remain "unlimited", but as soon as you pay for that extension of support, then you're going to get a nasty surprise, because there is no more "unlimited" license. You will then have to upgrade (rather downgrade) to a non-unlimited license, or just forego support altogether. There's no "unlimited" option there.

While they haven't said that they're going to restrict "owned" licenses, that is just how it'll work out. Sure, you'll keep your owned license unlimited, until the time comes to renew support. THEN, you'll have no choice, whatsoever. You will have to go without support, or downgrade.
Just because MB have removed the unlimited option for new customers does not mean it no longer exists. MB are currently allowing unlimited licenses to be sold to leased license holders so they can get an unlimited license before their lease is switched to 1000 clients with V5's release. I cannot see how after doing that they would turn round and say "sorry, you'll need to downgrade to renew support". It just doesn't make any sense.

No, not Doh. Check our thread in the revews forum. You'll see why it was needed. I couldn't wait 6 months more (for a truly stable, other host tested) version of 5 to come out to deploy the site. We wanted it *now*. :D

<snip>

Again, it's not the money so much as just the general wariness of the MB support staff. Their programmers are great guys, and one programmer to another, their setup is simply genious for everything I've seen, but business wise they haven't been the best to deal with in the past.

We'll see how it goes. :)

Ok I see :) yup sometimes you just cant wait anymore and have to change. I'm definatly won't be an early adopter of MB5 just because it is your backbone for the business. Bit too risky until its been fully tested out in the world...

I totally agree with you on the business front. Basically a room full of good developers but not that business minded. Look at the web cam you can see the developers... but where are everyone else? support/business development etc.. but I think increasing the price is a good idea for them, as it will then allow them to get proper business managers in. Even just getting a good project manager in.

A classic example i've noticed just recently with them they have added Google Adds to mb5, which is a good revenue stream for them but WHY? why couldn't they have done that after the development of the base system was complete. Doing it now just wastes time. Nobody is actually using the system so they won't make any money on it doing it now and it just delays mb5 again.

Ignore all the "modules" and extra functions etc get the base system working with the most popular modules (enom, plesk or whatever they are). It then gets shipped quicker, you get more money in, your not releasing it too all your customers at once because you only have a subset of modules so any major bugs don't effect ALL your customers and you don't end up pissing them off...

oh and the reason they coded the google ads in?? I bet it was because developers get the say so on what goes in and out. So the google ads thing was a "cool thing to do" which was fun and interesting... but doesn't really help the business that much. I would have kept quiet about it and launched it a month after the launch of mb5 and then it looks like your still coding and releasing more and more stuff for mb5 ("isn't mb5 great we have now developed this as well!") month after month when in fact you coded it yonks ago. But customer perception is your great and keep the forums happy for a month :)

ok.. breath in.. breath out... i'm feeling calm now :) just annoys me when I see good products going the way of the dodo just because they have been coded by developers who don't know how to sell.

http://www.moderngigabyte.com/modernbill/2006hostingworkshop.htm?ref=mb_l_5

^ that's the whole MB team

There's a whole other group of people involved with the sales/business side of MB, it's just that the webcam only focuses on the developers - we don't want to see Jennifer answering telephone calls about licensing & billing all day, we want to see the developers busy coding V5 :)

linux-tech, I think you need to speak with ModernBill and get your facts straight, before you make pronouncements that are misleading at best.

As far as raising renewal pricing for existing owned licenses.... that's pretty much the same as a web host (or server admin) raising rates for existing clients.

Sometimes it works (we've done it ourselves several times successfully), and sometimes it does not. Depends on the company, the product, and the customer.

That being said, I noticed you offer system admin services. I'm sure you have some kind of monthly package, right? How would your clients react if you told them that you are now offering a new "SUPER DUPER" package with new features, and also doubling their pricing?

I'm sure they'd just love that, right? :)

This is the same thing. Yes, we all understand WHY modernbill is raising their prices for renewal/support. Nobody is questioning that aspect of their decision.

My only thinking on this area is that it's kind of a money grab (which it is!) and does not treat existing clients with the respect I feel personally feel is deserving. But.. it is not my business, and I am merely a customer. If I don't "like" the decision they have made, I can vote with my feet if I choose so. I just didn't like the fact that modernbill decided to raise our rates, and try to tell us how good they are and how fantastic they are for doing so.

:)

I cannot see how after doing that they would turn round and say "sorry, you'll need to downgrade to renew support"

Tell THAT to the people who really get the shaft, you know, the ones that actually lease the license! This is their exact wording, however:


If you are currently a Leased Unlimited customer, you will automatically be transitioned with the release of Version 5 to the Recurring V5 ModernBill 1000


If they're going to screw the people that actually pay the bills recursively, then what says they won't do the same with those who pay one time fees?


If you have an Owned license, please note that the tier upgrades remain relatively unchanged from previous pricing. You simply pay the difference in the tiers at the time of the upgrade.


While they probably (note: probably) have an unlimited option for owned, it's not shown on the order page, nor is it shown anywhere. This just means that you have to contact them when it's time to renew your support. They're certainly not going to renew y our support/downloads at the "unlimited owned" pricing when they don't have an "unlimited owned" setup in v5, that'd be silly to expect.

How exasperating to carry on a discussion with somebody who cares not to properly read one's statements before shooting off defensive and thoughtless replies. Moreover, one who utterly ignores relevant points, including MB's own words. Again putting in a minute too much on this issue, I reread MB's latest newsletter and quote (emphasis my doing):

"If you have an Owned Unlimited today, congratulations on your good fortune. However, given the new pricing structure, we will no longer approve license transfers to others on Unlimited licenses."

It speaks nothing of any downgrading, nor does it suggest that any expectation of the status quo is unreasonable. In fact, from the first statement, there is an implication that our "good fortune" will be respected, upheld and maintained - otherwise, why the congrats? This, together with what I posted a few posts up regarding "Do I have to pay more for V5, etc" - assures me sufficiently that MB is worth its salt, that unlimited license holders will just to have pay more support fees from what they now are but maintain their "unlimited" licenses, and that our dear community liaison is just unready to back down. I rest my case. This long weekend is too precious to spend on continuing this particular discussion that's going no where!

They're certainly not going to renew your support/downloads at the "unlimited owned" pricing when they don't have an "unlimited owned" setup in v5, that'd be silly to expect.

In fact, that's exactly what they will do.

I've recently contacted modernbill and asked about this, specifically for unlimited owned license.

Their reponse:

1) You can renew your support for 6 monhts NOW at the current price level. Price will be raised after v5 goes into production.

2) They do not know what is the future.new renewal price for unlimited owned license once v5 is in production. It has not been announced.

3) They are not going to continue selling owned unlimited license type once v5 is in production.

4) Existing owned licenses will remain as owned unlimited licenses. You will not be able to sell them (transfer the license) once v5 goes into production.

So there you have it. This, apparently, is our good fortune. :rolleyes:

If anyone has a different response FROM MODERNBILL, then please post it.

Hey guys,

We're so happy that our upcoming release is generating so much excitement. Many of you have asked some questions regarding our upcoming changes. I will attempt to summarize the underlying questions and answer them succinctly for you so there is no confusion

Q. What is the cost for renewing support owned unlimited licenses under the new licensing?

Owned Unlimited Licenses are being grandfathered in to the support pricing at $79.95 for each 6 months.

Q. Can I purchase more than 6 months of support now at the lower prices?

Yes, but you will need to call into our offices to have this order taken manually.

Q. Can I upgrade to an owned unlimited still?

Yes, all licensees can upgrade to an owned unlimited now in the license center in the member's area. The upgrade price for your license will be listed there. Even new customers can access the old pricing now by buying a smaller license now and upgrading in the license center for the price difference.

Q. Can I transfer my owned unlimited license to some one else?

No. We will not honor license transfer requests on these licenses.

Q. Isn't this just a money grab?

Absolutely not. Version 5 is really that good. It will be by far and away the best billing system ever distributed. Just keep an eye on all the companies we partner with to understand the quality being driven into this product.

As for existing customers, we love them like brothers and sisters. This is why we are publishing our price increases about a month ahead of time to ensure that anyone who really wants in can get in now.

Thanks for your patience with this long post. Mods, please let us know if this response is overly self promotional. We do not believe it is as we are answering and clarifying customer issues. We are happy to edit as needed

... One thing im still wondering about with the unlimited owned licenses is that if they are able to upgrade for free to v5, will the convertion to a lower license not happen until they have to renew their support?


I think a few posts ago MB has already officially clarified that there will NOT be any downgrading for owned unlimited licenses. The only thing is that support has to be renewed at double the current price. This has always been their policy, that upgrades are free as long as support is active. So, how about we just graciously end this particular discussion?

I think a few posts ago MB has already officially clarified that there will NOT be any downgrading for owned unlimited licenses. The only thing is that support has to be renewed at double the current price. This has always been their policy, that upgrades are free as long as support is active. So, how about we just graciously end this particular discussion?

Your right, i just reread the recent post by MB about the subject. I have just read so many posts on the topic that sometimes its a little hard to remember what the current answers are.

Could someone please answer a couple of questions for me as I have not used MB in the past ..

1 - what is the cost of an 'owned unlimited license' right now (today) ? I am asking because their web site only shows 'call us'. The biggest license they have listed is the 1000 client license for $379.95 but that's for 1000 ... not unlimited.

The MB person a few posts up mentioned that if we buy an owned LIMITED license now, we could upgrade to unlimited via their licensing center ... but why can't you just tell us the price of an owned unlimited license straight up?

2 - when your 'support' runs out, can one still download MB updated/upgrades incl. security upgrades or do you have to have a current support contract ?

Thanks in advance!

From Papi:

1 - what is the cost of an 'owned unlimited license' right now (today) ? I am asking because their web site only shows 'call us'. The biggest license they have listed is the 1000 client license for $379.95 but that's for 1000 ... not unlimited.

The MB person a few posts up mentioned that if we buy an owned LIMITED license now, we could upgrade to unlimited via their licensing center ... but why can't you just tell us the price of an owned unlimited license straight up?


The aggregate price is $499.95. I didn't quote a price for 2 reasons. First, this board is not for self promotion, so thanks for asking the question. Second, this pricing is only available as an upgrade to an existing license, so the cost of the upgrade varies from person to person as it is the aggregate price minus your tier cost. Ex. Owned Unlimited ($499.95) - Owned 1000 (379.95) = $120 Upgrade

You may buy the smaller one and upgrade.


2 - when your 'support' runs out, can one still download MB updated/upgrades incl. security upgrades or do you have to have a current support contract ?

Updates/Upgrades are a support function. Therefore, you must have active support to receive them. The good news is that we don't charge for version upgrades separately.

Sweet thanks for answering my questions!

I think a few posts ago MB has already officially clarified that there will NOT be any downgrading for owned unlimited licenses. The only thing is that support has to be renewed at double the current price. This has always been their policy, that upgrades are free as long as support is active. So, how about we just graciously end this particular discussion?

There is one additional change.

Owned unlimited licenses are no longer able to be sold/transferred to someone else.

Q. Can I purchase more than 6 months of support now at the lower prices?

Yes, but you will need to call into our offices to have this order taken manually.
I just called and ordered two-years of support. THANK YOU!

wow, this is good to know! ty

Anybody knows why unlimited license holders are ineligible for the free Adwords credit that other license holders are getting? Is it because of our "good fortune"? Thanks for any insight.

I've already asked Jon from ModernGigabyte. Response:

It is all that we were offered (from google). We are working toward offers for all tier levels, but what we have now is the most we could negotiate. Stay tuned.

I will said that on a reseller case we provide the support for MB and for the same reason support and upgrades should be done by the resellers on customer requests.

If the case is different witch I do not know yet them we are facing a big problem.

As for MB prices changes it was said that not difference will be on prices changes as soon you hold a Lic. before MB V5 is out and declare stable.