I would love to learn more about Dreamweaver Ultra Dev for the mac.
But I realize by reading a book on it that
you have to have ASP or SQL or Windows server. I am in a fog about those things. But I was wondering if there is anybody out there that has experience with working with Dreamweavers Ultra Dev., and what server type they used for Ultra Dev. for the mac. Is there a good server for utilizing Ultra Dev? Should I favor a server that has ASP? I am looking for a lower cost server but could spend up to $30.00 a month if need be. I would have to get rid of my att cable. But I just don't like not being able to have a .com domain name url on my cable attbi web site.
I like the fact that some sites offer PHP, CGI, ASP, Windows server 200. Still don't know enough about some of those mentioned though.
Anyway
Thanks for reading! Any help would greatly be appreciated.

tile

I work on both PC and Mac's......hence I have faced the problem of using mac's to develop dynamic sites........there are a couple of ways around this, annoying but possible.....
contact me off forum if you want further info about setting up your Mac, as I wont go into detail here as it is not relevant to this forum.....

I personally am a fan of COld Fusion, but you will generallly be able to find more ASP hosts and cheaper......

cheers.....

It´s not ASP or SQL
But rather ASP AND SQL

Two things are needed on the server:

1. a database backend: SQL
2. a server side scripting language: ASP, JSP or ColdFusion

Notice that DreamWeaver doesn´t support PHP server side scripting, only the other three mentioned above, so the usual PHP/MySql combination you get with small Unix hosting packages won´t work for you.

ASP (Active Server Pages) is from Microsoft and is mainly available on Microsoft systems, that´s why you need a Windows server. There´s a Unix port of ASP, but if you deploy ASP I´d prefer a Windows server indeed.

Windows is not needed if you use JSP (JavaServer Pages). But JSP requires the Java Virtual Machine on the server, with JSP/Servlet support, which is hard to find in shared hosting (and often expensive). For something not very big ASP is probably preferrable to JSP for the mere fact that you have more Hosting offers.

I don´t know about ColdFusion. Probably quite impressive.

Astra 4

I have been searching for information on this for hours and so far yours is the best I've seen. Ausome response!

Sounds like I should find a server that has ASP and a database backend of SQL.

Being a beginner at this, what is going through my mind is that if I want to make dynamic pages such as making a password for my site so people can log in. I can utilize Dreamweaver Ultra Dev alone, I don't need another app to do this. Which I think I understand. But if Iwant to make a database, do I need to have a database app. on my G4 computer or will the SQL server suffice? Can I make a nice database with Ultra Dev 4 alone?

I think for me buying Ultra Dev. 4 would be the thing to do. All my apps are the OS 9 type so I don't want to go out and buy Dreamweaver MX. Then I unleash a whole new can of worms in that I would have to use that dreaded classic mode which I am trying to avoid.

Again Astra 4, thanks for making things a whole lot clearer!

Originally posted by tile
Sounds like I should find a server that has ASP and a database backend of SQL.If you want to use Dreamweaver, that´s probably the thing to do.

SQL (Structured Query Language) is the ANSI standard retrieval language for relational databases (RDBMS = Relational Database Management System). Talking "SQL database" one refers to a relational database. Simply put, that´s the type of database which stores data in tables. "SQL Server" is the one from Microsoft, but you can use any other RDBMS (like MySQL, PostgreSQL or whatever) as long as it has an ODBC driver (Open Database Connectivity); the ODBC driver is an abstraction layer which is used by ASP to access databases. For JSP this driver is called JDBC.

Well, if you find a host who offers ASP and a SQL database engine, it´s obvious that the ODBC driver is provided too.

But if Iwant to make a database, do I need to have a database app. on my G4 computer or will the SQL server suffice?
Well, you don´t need a server locally to develop the site.

You need the servers (webserver and database server) to test-run your site. The pages you create with Dreamweaver contain server side scripting, i.e. instructions to a webserver, you cannot view them in a web browser locally without a webserver. And the instructions to the webserver contain database queries, along with information telling the webserver how to access the database server...

So having merely the database server on your local machine won´t help much, you also need the webserver, and for ASP that´s ideally a windows server. But actually it´s no problem to upload the pages to the webhost and use those servers for testing...

If you´re running Mac OS X, I suppose the Apache webserver, PHP and MySQL are already installed, one advantage of PHP over ASP ;)
Can I make a nice database with Ultra Dev 4 alone?
I´ve never used such a tool, but I suppose that yes.

Well, normally dynamic web pages don´t create database tables, they just read, insert or delete rows in those tables. The tables are created only once, using SQL commands. I suppose Dreamweaver produces a SQL script which you run on the database server to make the tables.
I think for me buying Ultra Dev. 4 would be the thing to do.
To my knowledge Macromedia doesn´t sell UltraDev anylonger.
There´s only MX, which contains all the UltraDev features.

To develop ASP, Dreamweaver is probably a good choice, I never used it...

But PHP is even more popular and especially it´s platform independent, you´re not tied into Windows servers... don´t know if there´s something comparable to Dreamweaver with PHP support, might indeed be more difficoult to find for the Mac.

But hey, in any case, I can´t imagine that you´ll be able to develop a dynamic site without learning some basics about SQL and ASP or PHP, whichever you´re gona use. So you could also dispense with the Dreamweaver development environment and do some more handwork, it´s pretty instructive ;)

A book or two would probably be handy, one about SQL and one about ASP or PHP, whichever... I have no good recommendation on books though.
All my apps are the OS 9 type so I don't want to go out and buy Dreamweaver MX. Then I unleash a whole new can of worms in that I would have to use that dreaded classic mode which I am trying to avoid.
You mean there´s no Dreamweaver for OS X yet?

At the Macromedia Exchange website you can download a PHP-Plugin :stickout

To: astra 4 and netacore

Thanks for the responses, a mac friend of mine just raves about php. This stuff sounds interesting to me. But I know that I have a graphic designer mentality, so I'll have to rely on Dreamweaver Ultra 4 and maybe that php plugin netcore mentioned later on.
Dreamweaver MX is out I believe, but I sure don't want to spend money on the MX's until I obtain an understanding of Ultra Dev 4.
Astra 4,good point about understanding ASP and SQL. Maybe reading a little about that wouldn't hurt me.
You know I've browsed the internet quite a bit and finally ran into a host that seems appropriate for what I do. It's http://www.7host.com

They told me their configurations are:
W2000 Adv Server, IIS 5.0, ASP 3"
They said that they have developers that use Ultra Dev on a mac on their servers.

Something I don't understand though, they said:
>>Probably you will need to ask for "Front Page Extensions" to use authomatic
Upload/Download functionalities featured by Ultradev.<<
I'll have to ask them about that.

/tile

Originally posted by tile
You know I've browsed the internet quite a bit and finally ran into a host that seems appropriate for what I do. It's http://www.7host.comTo find hosting don´t browse the internet, rather search webhostingtalk.com (my opinion ;) )

One thing I personally appreciated when I had a host for my site (I don´t have it anymore :bawling: ) is that there was a user forum...They told me their configurations are:
W2000 Adv Server, IIS 5.0, ASP 3"Yeah, IIS (Internet Information Server) is the Microsoft webserver. Don´t know at what version they are, possible the 5.0 is the latest.
Something I don't understand though, they said:
>>Probably you will need to ask for "Front Page Extensions" to use authomatic Upload/Download functionalities featured by Ultradev.<<
I'll have to ask them about that.
FrontPage is the "webpage editing tool" of Microsoft, I never used it.
It has a feature which allows to directly "publish" a website, i.e. upload it to the server with "just a mouse click", and without using FTP (File Transfert Protocol), the standard protocol for file transfert on internet.

The "FrontPage Extensions" are extensions of the webserver, which enable it to understand the FrontPage proprietary communication protocol, I think that´s what it is, anyway...

I´m a bit surprised that it´s "extensions" even on IIS, would have expected this to be a built-in feature of the Microsoft web server. Maybe there´s a security risk and so they only offer it as "extensions"?

I only have Dreamweaver Ultra 1.0, in order to upload to their server I have to conifig Ultra Dev 1.0 to ASP 2, that is all that Ultra Dev allows me to do. Because Ultra Dev 1.0 is so old, it doesn't know that ASP 3 exsisted.

It wold be nice to just use Ultra Dev 1.0 so I wouldn't have to buy Ultra Dev 4. But I might be missing on some important stuff if I can only utilize ASP 2. If I remember right, I think I've read that I'll need some type of driver in order to use Ultra Dev. 1.0, I think with the later Ultra Dev 4 and MX you don't have to have a driver.

Not sure what driver it is though, but this thought stuck in back of my mind as something that could be important down the road. I am just trying to make this stuff easier for me before hand.

I just emailed 7host about Frontpage, I mentioned that I am on a mac. Why would I even need or worry about Frontpage extensions for uploading and downloading?
Maybe I am just not getting something I should understand.

/tile

Originally posted by tile
Something I don't understand though, they said:
>>Probably you will need to ask for "Front Page Extensions" to use authomatic
Upload/Download functionalities featured by Ultradev.<<
Absolutely not. UltraDev/Dreamweaver don't use FrontPage extensions, and upload and download simply using ftp.

Actually that answer might illustrate that your potential host won't be much of a resource if you need help getting things working. Personally I'd be more willing to go a host who simply says they don't have any specific knowledge of what you're using, rather than someone who takes a guess and so gives out inaccurate information.

JayC

Thanks for the added thought!
I am waiting for their (7host.com) return email. I mentioned that that comment was odd.

I guess it is wise to ask as many quesitons as I can because I know Murphy's Law all too well.

Being that I have Att Cable, I just don't want to dish out exorbitant amounts of money for hosting. I am still am little ticked-off that I couldn't have a domain name with Att Cable only after I joined .

/tile

Originally posted by tile
Why would I even need or worry about Frontpage extensions for uploading and downloading?
Maybe I am just not getting something I should understand.

/tile Well, basically all you need to do is transfer your files to the server, so you can always use an ordinary FTP client to do that, hence no need for Frontpage Extensions.

I suppose Dreamweaver supports the FrontPage way of transferring files to the server, that´s a commodity, it has some more functionality than FTP. For example (I believe... never used this stuff myself) when you modify a number of your source files and hit the "publish" button, it will figure out which files of the project have been modified since the last upload, and just transfer those,... stuff like this, I suppose...

For all the rest, you´re actually on the wrong forum here.

I recommend you visit ASP101.com (http://www.asp101.com), they have many very good articles on ASP and also a Forum to ask questions like yours... Another site with very good articles on ASP is 15seconds.com (http://www.15seconds.com). Then there is ASPToday.com (http://www.asptoday.com), which is run by wrox, a book editor who, I believe, is part of Microsoft. They´re mainly trying to sell WROX books, hehe... Last but not least, for ASP, there´s Microsoft.com (http://www.microsoft.com) with a knowledgebase and many articles.

Oh, there´s one more thing :cool: Don´t look at the sites I just cited to figure out if you want to use ASP or PHP, because they´re, obviously, Microsoft freaks...

Good luck

Originally posted by astra4
I suppose Dreamweaver supports the FrontPage way of transferring files to the server, that´s a commodity, it has some more functionality than FTP. For example (I believe... never used this stuff myself) when you modify a number of your source files and hit the "publish" button, it will figure out which files of the project have been modified since the last upload, and just transfer those,... Dreamweaver has that functionality through the "Synchronize" command; but still uses ftp to transfer the file. FrontPage uses http POST to send your file to author.exe on the server. And no, Dreamweaver won't do that.

If you're using Dreamweaver or UltraDev, you have no use for FrontPage Exensions.

Yeah, looks like you´re right. According to a Macromedia article about Frontpage (http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/ts/documents/publishweb.htm) the transferring with Frontpage server extensions instead of FTP is available for Dreamweaver as an "extension" apparently intended to facilitate the move from Frontpage to Dreamweaver.

Oh and Macromedia has a list with a couple of books about UltraDev, ASP, JSP, ColdFusion and SQL (http://www.macromedia.com/support/ultradev/ts/documents/ultradevpublications.htm), probably a good approach is to take these and check their rating at Amazon to figure out which is the best.

Originally posted by astra4
Yeah, looks like you´re right. Well I suppose I would have been "more right" if I'd said that Dreamweaver doesn't natively offer that approach. Yeah, you could use the "publish" extension. But as that article points out, there are a number of issues with that approach. For someone who's already created a complex FrontPage site and wants to begin using Dreamweaver it might be an approach worth taking -- it's a way to leave in place FrontPage "features" like "subwebs" and the page counters and such, that are already installed in a site.

But in the context of this thread, we're talking about a new site and we're talking about a user who has decided to use Dreamweaver UltraDev to create that new site. Even if FP Extensions are installed, and even if you're using Macromedia's "publish" extension to let you use FP's method to transfer files you won't be able to, for example, create subwebs. All you're doing is avoiding breaking the site; using ftp to transfer to a site using FP extensions will almost certainly trash it.

By the way, I really like the editorial commentary contained in the keywords on that linked article: "publish web, FrontPage, Front Page, Migration Kit, Server Extensions, non-standard, Microsoft, proprietary, stranglehold" -- ha! I suppose a lot of people are searching Macromedia's site for articles with the keyword "stranglehold."

I think if I ask too many questions I am going to overwelm myself. I havn't joined 7host.com yet but it seems like it is the best one I've found for the mac and using Ultra Dev.

I still might lurk a little bit more and read more forum stuff before I make my move. They are asking me why I don't join now because it is a 30 day money back garantee if I am not satisfied.

But to me it is a real commitment once I join and I'll have to put a lot of time testing Ultra Dev with their server.

I just don't wan't to get too frustrated not knowing what to do. But I am facinated with a couple of topics such as "making a password" (by Training From The Source).

Can you believe I bought it at Comp USA for about $4.00 javascript:smilie(':cool:')
They have an table were they put books that seem to be outdated. I like to go there and spot books that are mac related and useful and fun to me.

Another book I browsed through that seemed to have a gorgeous tutorial is a Dummies book on Ultra Dev 4. The subject is on making a shopping cart. It seems by reading that I feel that I can accomplish it.

I think you can buy that book at amazon.com or somwere really cheap as well.

It is kind of fun to scout around and get these great deals on books that are a little older than those new MX Macromedia ones. But their is so much information in those books, it could be a year before I even want to get into the OS X software pool.

Again thanks much!

/tile