In my ongoing quest to find a reasonable billing system, the past year or so has found me at DRAMS/AWBS. Well, not any more. Why? That, is a story in and of itself. An example of support from these guys:
Case #1:

02-17-2006 05:22 - USER
Not sure whether this is on your end or Kayako's end, but either way, it's a huge pain to work around.

For the past couple of months, I've had one specific client who is not able to login to the support system (using your loginshare integration). Every time he tries, it gives him the login invalid stuff.

I've passed this onto Kayako, they say it's not them, but it's you, which I find odd, given the fact that it's a pretty simple query, however here is the problem.

email @ .co.uk domains can NOT login to the support system using your loginshare authentication. I've pinpointed this to this specific area by switching his .co.uk email to another, and it works just fine. Prior, nothing worked, nothing would let him login, nothing at all (and I tried a ton of stuff).

I'm not sure if this is something you're passing off to kayako wrong, or something they're parsing wrong, but it's something that you might want to investigate, just in case it actually IS something with your LoginShare code.

Tom


Trouble Ticket Responses
2006-02-17 11:56 - SUPPORT DEPT
Hi Tom,
It sounds to me like it is on our side. I will put this on hold for steve so he can check into it.

Thanks,
Sam

03-14-2006 10:49 - USER
Do tell, how long does it take to get something resolved here? Clients not able to login to support system? Not good! A month delay in something that shouldn't be an issue? Not good!

When can I expect to see this fixed?

2006-04-06 21:12 - SUPPORT DEPT
Ticket Closed

2 months, client with no support desk logins? Sounds pretty critical to me. These guys? Ahh, let's put it on hold, hope the client doesn't notice it. Since they developed the plugin, and, of course, encoded it, nobody can fix it, but, you guessed it..... THEM. Will they? not in this lifetime I'm sure. The best part is them CLOSING it without even addressing the issue. Great support there gang!

Case #2:
I opened up a ticket with these guys on 3/14 . Before I opened up the ticket, I was able to login, do everything except for view/edit a few of my packages. I found it odd, so, being the concerned user, I opened up a ticket.

Within a couple hours, they logged in, and responded with this:

I just edited each record in AWBS (changed the id on the url to pull up each record) and then saved each.

All I can think of is perhaps the table may be corrupt...Not sure, but they all show up after doing the above.

Hrrrm, corrupted database? OOOOkay, I bought it, for a minute.
Then, I tried to RE-login to my system
NOT ONLY was I not able to re-login to my system, each and every package was screwed up, all accounts were screwed up, everything was just a complete and total disaster. All this for a simple package "fix"? Of course it was corrupted, after they logged in and screwed around, because not even the login I gave them was working. The entire system was horked... GREAT support!!!!!!

So, we have no support in one case, one case where "support" doesn't do anything but screw up the database more, then blame it on the user.... Hrrrrrrrm, yeah, ooookay.

Case #3:
Since last year (January or so), I've had random date() problems with my system. From packages not being inserted with the proper dates to packages not renewing at the right time (specifically around February, where we have a short month) to invoice renewal dates just randomly skipping a month.
I've opened up numerous helpdesk tickets with this. Their response? Well, they've chosen not to respond to, or ignore most of them. The one time I got an actual response?


2005-07-23 13:29 - SUPPORT DEPT
We are testing a fix for this and it will be in the next release.

Now, keep in mind this was already 4 months after the original ticket, and their repeated refusal to address the issue, constantly blaming it on packages, dates, months, you name it, they blamed it..

03-02-2005 01:17 - USER


So, when was the actual "fix" seen?
11-16-2005, 10:12 PM
That's right, now -=9=- months after the original ticket was opened, these guys released something to patch a critical bug. Yeah, oooookay, can we say development here?

Is the bug fixed? Apparently, that part of it is, however, again, they've introduced even more date bugs, such as inserting orders with dates of 1960 and previous.. HRRRRRRRM. Fixed? Yeah, I don't think so.

I could go on and on, but I won't. AWBS is history, unfortunately now I'm back to the whole MB thing (yet another story altogether), until I can get a reliable client built (in the works). If you're after decent support and bug free code, though, you really want to stay far away from these guys, and I do mean far!

I Feel compelled to show the otherside, it appears that you have had a bad experence with them, i would like to share my experence.


10-08-2005 04:25 - USER
Hi There,

I have been having trobuble with the directi module, it seems to be having an issue with the company when sending it to directi.

I have tried changing the company name in the users acocunt, but it doesnt change in in the details been sent to directi.

I have posted the debug detials below.
**SNIP**


Now lets appreciate that it was submitted at 0425AM (i.e. any sensiable person in the USA is probably asleep).


2005-10-08 09:28 - SUPPORT DEPT
Try this:
http://www.awbs.com/updates/directi_105b_zend.zip

First backup your existing includes/directi directory, then unzip/upload these files.

This problem is fixed in v 2.1.0....

Sam


0928AM on the same day, a reply to the message (probably only 28 minuites after they started work) and the fix worked! So that was 5 Hours from submitting the ticket to a resolving it (or 28 minuites if you only count 'working' hours).


I have many other support tickets which are normally answered and resolved in just a few hours. However i dont really want to post thease on a public forum.

Also if you look on their forum, you will notice that a lot of issues are resolved very quickly either by Steve, Sam or members of the community.

I think you had a bad experence, maybe i have had an exceptionally good one.

What i can tell you, is that in my experence, AWBS go above ad beyond what is required of them.

Bad experience for over a year, I don't think so.

The fact of the matter is that the staff @ AWBS have proven themselves incompetent, time and timie again. Not only have they corrupted critical databases (big nono), but they have refused to fix critical bugs, such as time issues, etc.

When it comes down to it, this says it all right here.

PHP v4.3.8-4.4.x (safe_mode off, register_globals on)
(PHP5 not yet supported)

Years after the release of php5, months after promising it WILL be done, nothing, absolutely nothing at all. These people are so far behind in the times that they can't even provide support for something that is 2-3 years old already. Hell, they can't even provide support for their own PRODUCT , as shown by what they've done to my mess.

You can claim great support all you want, but, the facts state otherwise.

Years after the release of php5, months after promising it WILL be done, nothing, absolutely nothing at all. These people are so far behind in the times that they can't even provide support for something that is 2-3 years old already. Hell, they can't even provide support for their own PRODUCT , as shown by what they've done to my mess.

You can claim great support all you want, but, the facts state otherwise.

If you want to state the facts, then its a fact that, although not offically suported AWBS runs on php5. Its also a fact that Steve has said that the dev server is running PHP5.

You had a bad experence, and now you have a bad view for AWBS, and its not likly to change. All im trying to do is show both sides of the story.

You had a bad experence.
I had, and are still having a fantastic experence.

Lets face it, many people on this board praise Modernbill, however, i had 6 months of MBv5 and Directi comming Soon, and last i checked they still dont have Directi. And thats over 12 months since i stopped asking.

You had a bad experence, and now you have a bad view for AWBS, and its not likly to change. All im trying to do is show both sides of the story.

No, what you're trying to do is hijack a thread that is months old now.

The fact of the matter is that no matter what is said privately, in closed forums, or helpdesk tickets, about php5, they do not support it, and have not for years. This is incompetence, nothing less there.

The fact of the matter is that their own forums are full of unhappy customers, so much so that they had to make them private.

The fact of the matter is that the "development" team takes months to release a fix for critical bugs, as shown by my issues and responses.

The fact of the matter is that you can and do run the risk of the staff themselves corrupting your database when they login, then denying everything simply because they are too ignorant to know what they're doing.

Say what you want about modernbill, they're not perfect (and far from it as well). However, when a critical bug (such as individual dates being mixed up EVERY MONTH) is submitted to modernbill, it doesn't take them 6 months to address the issue. When products such as php get upgraded, it doesn't take them years (usually) to fix the issue.

When it comes down to it, it's all about trust. Can AWBS be trusted inside of your system? Clearly not. Can modernbill? That remains to be seen. Can AWBS be trusted to fix their own bugs? Again, clearly not. The date bug isn't the only bug that is well over a year old now, and has been posted many times. the developers response? "Oh, we don't know where it's coming from" . Sounds typical of individuals who don't know what they're doing with their own product. How can you possibly trust a company that doesn't have a clue what it's own product does, or what the problem is, not just for a month but for months, even years!

Billing isn't something to be handled lightly, or by some fly by night corporation. AWBS / Drams has claimed they're the best, but they hardly can stand up to that claim.

Next time you choose to hijack a thread, make sure it's a current one, not one that is months old.

Im not trying to HiJack anything, i was reading a thread that you posted a link to this thread in (the thread i was reading is currently active). As you where directing people to read the thread, i was trying to offer another point of view, so people can get a fair view of what people think, not what one person who has oviosuly had a bad experence thinks.

I was willing to have a discussion, so that people could see both points of view, however it appears you are unwilling to discuss your complains and listen to other peoples sucesses.

There are many companies that take a long time to support new versions. Just as a quick example, last i checked cPanel did not support Apache2. AWBS working on PHP 5 support.

I am on the forums most days, and yes there are people that are un-happy, the biggest complaint is the templating system (which is been addressed at the moment) however i would not say it is full of unhappy clients (i can think of 1 that is currently having major problems).

Yes the bug that you needed fixed took months, at the same time a bug (which stopped domain registraion) that i encountered took them jsut a few hours (minuites if you count the time after 9am) to resolve. To put it your way FACT They fix critical bugs in minuites / hours depending on your point of view.

Next time you choose to hijack a thread, make sure it's a current one, not one that is months old.
Next Time you choose to link to a thread, expect replies!

If you want to give your option, fine, give your option, but expect others to give theirs

cPanel supports Apache2 just fine.

Hey, way to bump a dead thread - troll.

I was willing to have a discussion, so that people could see both points of view

Come back when you've had a bit of experience with AWBS, more than 1-2 months. You'll be singing a different tune then.


Just as a quick example, last i checked cPanel did not support Apache2.

CPanel has supported A2 for a year or better now. Comparing Apache2 and php5 is comparing apples and oranges though, really. Apache is the base core of the webserver, php is just a plugin, or a module. If you screw apache up, you're screwed for good, if you screw php up, you can go backwards. As well, I'd hardly consider apache2 stable, though there are those that might. Too many things can be broken easily inside of it. php5, on the other hand IS stable, and has been for 2 years now.


Im not trying to HiJack anything

Let's see here, how long had this thread been open before you replied? Oh yeah, 4 months. Not trying to hijack something? Hardly. You attempted to post a reply to a thread that should have been closed months ago.

It's not about a discussion, you posted one ticket which was resolved promptly (yay for them). However, that does not discount the incompetence by their staff, the slowness in responding to critical tickets (like it or not, systems randomly adjusting a client's bill date IS critical), their refusal to support updated protocol (php5) , or any of their other issues.

Facts is that when it comes down to it, AWBS is HARDLY the solution for anything. The interface is great, but the support is pathetically poor and incompetent at best. My bet is that the problem with kayako is STILL a problem, and there are STILL individuals out there having issues with date() . Even after being given a proper solution (by myself), they still took months to actually provide a minimal solution to my problem. I'd HARDLY call that "support".

Come back when you've had a bit of experience with AWBS, more than 1-2 months. You'll be singing a different tune then.

About to hit 18 months, so i think i have just a little experence with it.


CPanel has supported A2 for a year or better now. Comparing Apache2 and php5 is comparing apples and oranges though, really. Apache is the base core of the webserver, php is just a plugin, or a module. If you screw apache up, you're screwed for good, if you screw php up, you can go backwards. As well, I'd hardly consider apache2 stable, though there are those that might. Too many things can be broken easily inside of it. php5, on the other hand IS stable, and has been for 2 years now.

Maybe my example wasnt the best one, my point is that sometimes converting isnt a simple thing, however, although unsupported, awbs does run on php5, and from what steve has said (yes granted in the forum) it will probably be supported soon.




Let's see here, how long had this thread been open before you replied? Oh yeah, 4 months. Not trying to hijack something? Hardly. You attempted to post a reply to a thread that should have been closed months ago.


If you want the honest truth, i was reading another thread, which you posted a link to this thread in. I didnt look at the date, i just hit reply to post my experence. I reually see threads re-opened after several years on some forums, so i hardly call it thread hijacking.


It's not about a discussion, you posted one ticket which was resolved promptly (yay for them).

As i said

I have many other support tickets which are normally answered and resolved in just a few hours. However i dont really want to post thease on a public forum.

The reason i dont want to post them in the public forum doesnt really matter, but its because it contains infomation such as credit card details, and clients personal details.



However, that does not discount the incompetence by their staff, the slowness in responding to critical tickets (like it or not, systems randomly adjusting a client's bill date IS critical),

I think not been able to register domain names is also critial.


their refusal to support updated protocol (php5) , or any of their other issues.

I find it hard to belive that they refused to support it (considering it looks likly that they will be supporting it).


Facts is that when it comes down to it, AWBS is HARDLY the solution for anything. The interface is great, but the support is pathetically poor and incompetent at best. My bet is that the problem with kayako is STILL a problem, and there are STILL individuals out there having issues with date() . Even after being given a proper solution (by myself), they still took months to actually provide a minimal solution to my problem. I'd HARDLY call that "support".

That is what you think of AWBS, i have said what i think of AWBS.

I was not posting to 'Troll' nor was i posting to 'hijack' a thread. I Posted to say what i think, and post my experence, forgive me if i am wrong, but i assumed that was one of the reasons for WHT existing. However, as it seems i may have to defend myself on this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_Hijacking

Thread hijacking is the act of trying to steer a web forum discussion thread off topic by discussing a subject entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

While this can be an intentional act of trolling, it is often accidental - caused by other participants in the discussion responding to a throwaway remark, taking the thread off at a tangent to the original subject matter. The results, whilst sometimes humourous or otherwise interesting, often provoke a feeling of resentment from the author of the original post.


Forgive me if i am wrong, but you posted about why you shouldnt use AWBS, and i posted by alternate experice with AWBS, Thus from what i can tell, it is on the same topic.

If you dont like AWBS, and you have reasons for not liking AWBS, Fine you have said them. I do like AWBS, and i have given some infomation that conflicts with what you said. If you look all over this forum you will find people with good and bad experences with everything.


Lets try and help other people...

In your mind, and experence AWBS Support is Slow (too Slow to be useful)
In my mind, and experence AWBS support is Fast (and goes above and beyond)

You had a bad experence
I am having a good experence

You will not recomend AWBS
I will recomend AWBS

I think that pretty much says everything that is going on in this thread. Let me know if you disagree with that.

About to hit 18 months, so i think i have just a little experence with it.

Thats a definate Burn :angry: , linux-tech dude, whats wrong with someone sharing their experience with AWBS in a thread which you started, if you really didnt want any response to this thread in the first place, shouldnt you have asked mod , say 4 months ago to close this thread already?

Why left it open? You were expecting someone else to cry about awbs ?


I do feel their support is lagging, however, i am just on demo, but some potential questions that could get them new customer, they dont bother to answer.

I find it hard to belive that they refused to support it (considering it looks likly that they will be supporting it).

Wrong, they have refused to support it. When questions were asked about php5, they simply refused to support them.


I didnt look at the date, i just hit reply to post my experence

IE: you hijacked a thread. You took the thread over for your own personal purposes. This had nothing related to the issues listed, it had barely ANY relation to the original thread topic, except "awbs". Face it, you hijacked the thread.



however, although unsupported,


Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They Will NOT provide ANY support on php5. Come talk to me when they actually provide a WORKING product for php5. They have ignored the fact that php5 has been out for years now. It's called ignorance and incompetence, flat out.


Thus from what i can tell, it is on the same topic.

It's not. In fact it's barely even related. Does it fit with the topic title? No. Does it answer any of the concerns with AWBS? No. Does it resolve any of the issues? No. You hijacked a thread, plain and simple.


Thats a definate Burn

Blah blah blah. Save your high school antics for high school. If it doesn't have anything related to the topic then it doesn't belong here. Quit trying to insult or flame people here.

Wrong, they have refused to support it. When questions were asked about php5, they simply refused to support them.

Maybe when you spoke to them, but that is not the case now


IE: you hijacked a thread. You took the thread over for your own personal purposes. This had nothing related to the issues listed, it had barely ANY relation to the original thread topic, except "awbs". Face it, you hijacked the thread.


You just dont get it do you, you posted a bad experence, i posted a good one. When someone complains about something on here, a webhost, datacenter, domain registra whatever, someone will always come with a different point of view, thats all i did.



Blah blah blah. Save your high school antics for high school. If it doesn't have anything related to the topic then it doesn't belong here. Quit trying to insult or flame people here.

Boy i wish i was still in high school, maybe thats where you are (considering your answers are Blah Blah Blah) but its not where i am. Insulting people? What? i posted something that contradicted what you said, you you started flaming me stright away! Now i can belive what steve said in the other thread from the way you reacted to someone elses option.

All i wanted to do, was post my alternate experence, thats what i did.

Maybe when you spoke to them, but that is not the case now

And again, I quote, directly from their website (http://www.awbs.com/awbsdm.php)


- PHP v4.3.8-4.4.x (safe_mode off, register_globals on/off)
(PHP5 not yet officially supported)

2 years later, php5 is NOT supported. You say it's not the case, I really don't care what you say, because they, themselves say differently. The official statement is right there. it is NOT supported.


Insulting people? What? i posted something that contradicted what you said, you you started flaming me stright away! Now i can belive what steve said in the other thread from the way you reacted to someone elses option.

Perhaps you should actually READ the quote that was in reference to instead of jumping immediately to the defensive. I wasn't even talking to you. As far as insulting or flaming you, it has yet to happen, not by me. You attempted to hijack a thread, like it or not. The purpose of this thread was to deliver one person's reason of why not to use this product, and valid reasons.



All i wanted to do, was post my alternate experence, thats what i did.

Actually, you've yet to do that. You've posted what may be an "alternate" experience, but you've yet to refute ANY of the claims made, and you've yet to accept ANY of the evidence that you're wrong. Face it, at this point, your claim about php5 support is flat out wrong. What they do in private doesn't matter a bit. When they change their website to say "we support php5", then people can stop saying they don't. End of Story there.

By your own admittance:

-- They do, in fact have numerous people (customers) on their (private) forums which are unhappy with their product.

-- They do , in fact, have at least one person on their forums who has yet to receive support for a MAJOR problem

These individuals may have changed their tactics in the past few months, but just given those two right there, they haven't. In fact, I'd bet that there are numerous threads still active where problems are there. Unfortunately, as I'm no longer a customer, I am unable to access their (private) forums. hence, the reason they're private, they don't want the outside world to see true experiences with them.

Did you respond to any of the actual concerns or problems posted in the initial post? No, you didn't. You merely posted your own expereince, attempting to take the thread over (ie: hijack it). You may not see it as that, that's fine, but it's just what it was.

As for evidence, Im not representing AWBS, so theres no need for me to provide evidence. If you dont want to take my word for something, thats fine.

PHP5, It says its not yet 'offically' supported, which has changed from not supported at all And i havent said they do support it, i said they are moving towards it.

In the first few threads, you accused me of hijacking a thread (which considering its still on the topic of your bad experence with AWBS i havent done (and i dont care what you say, jsut as you dont care what i say)) and you questioned my experence.

The current active threads (thinking about what i have read in the last few days) has a few (3 or 4) clients asking for the template system to be upgraded, which they got a response to. And the only 'Major' problem is currently with an experimental module (so thats kinda void really).

As i keep trying to say to put a stop to it.

You had a bad experence
I had a good experence

END OF STORY